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Would a Pope/Vatican lie or hide the truth?

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posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:37 AM
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I cannot see a Pope hiding the truth unless..

Would it not be denying the true god if something was found to change history? Lets say for instance they found undeniable truth that christ had children and maybe they find some true scriptures written by christ or others directly from the time of christ that contradict currently accepted scriptures. Would it not be a total blasphamy to try and hide the truth no matter how much it changed history or rewrote how we view christ god and the holy bible?

I mean if your the Pope and you belive completely in god and god allows information to be found that changes our view of christ, the bible, and god himself that is undeniable how could you hide it from the masses and not be commiting the biggest sin in history?

The only reason I can see a Pope hiding a truth would be if the Popes allready know without doubt that God is not real, other wise no man who belives in god would attempt to deny the truth from the believers. TO hide the truth about God and Jesus would be hiding slavation.

So if a Pope is ever caught hiding the truth one could assume the vatican leaders do not believe in god and only belive in a system of control. In effect disproving god..

To me it seems it would be impossible for a Pope or the vatican to hide the truth from its belivers if their purpose is to get people to follow the true god.
'
hmmph




posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:41 AM
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Why not? He is trying to promote a specific agenda and if some knowledge comes too his attention that works against the ideas that he is trying to promote it would be in his interest and the interest of current beliefs of Christianity to hide it.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:48 AM
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the Vatican has hidden truths in the past. Check out the Vatican's history during World War II and the holocaust. Now, the question you're asking is obviously on a different level but lying is lying. I would imagine that they would not alert the public if they found documentation showing that the reason Jesus never married was because he was enamored with one of his apostles. If Jesus was gay, then they'd have some serious issues on their hands and they'd probably assume it's better to keep the truth to themselves.

If you believe everything you've been told by the bible, you are already believing half truths, fabrications and lies. Did a guy really take two of every animal on the planet and ride out a bad storm? That cannot be true. Now, I am not a bible reader so I don't know the full story but if the ark story is true, all of humanity would have been wiped out, with the exception of Noah and his wife/girlfriend. If they restarted the human race, I would think they are far more important than Adam and Eve. If Noah and his woman did restart the human race, how did we manage to avoid all the deformities that come with breeding with your siblings?

If there is one group that lies more than any other (other than governments), I'd go with the religious groups.

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Crakeur]



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:49 AM
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I can definately see the Pope/Vatican hiding knowledge that they have. They have quite a long history of having a "knowledge is for us, religion is for you" attitude toward all sorts of topics. Also, the Vatican would have to have some desire for self preservation, they are human after all. I doubt very highly if some information that would destroy the Catholic Church came to light that they would rush to inform everyone of it.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by Jonna
Why not? He is trying to promote a specific agenda and if some knowledge comes too his attention that works against the ideas that he is trying to promote it would be in his interest and the interest of current beliefs of Christianity to hide it.



ditto



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 01:12 PM
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Would the Pope and Vatican lie to hide the truth ?
Definitely. You must remember that the Catholic religion is one of control. Created in its current form by Constantine in the fourt century, it has always been a method of control.
They can't let this kind of information get out, or they would lose everything.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 01:38 PM
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No, I really don't think that would happen. I'm curious, why do you raise the question.



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 01:40 PM
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It's a bit of a daft question.

Have you never heard of Papal Infallibility?



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by Midnight Raven
Would the Pope and Vatican lie to hide the truth ?
Definitely. You must remember that the Catholic religion is one of control. Created in its current form by Constantine in the fourt century, it has always been a method of control.
They can't let this kind of information get out, or they would lose everything.


You say Constantine in the fourth century and the Roman Catholic Church are both the same as it was thousands of yrs ago? NOT TRUE.

What was 2 thousand yrs ago and the teachings of the Holy Catholic (Universal Church)Church are now not the Roman Catholic Church.The teachings of the Roman Catholic Church are not from the original teachings of the fathers of the first,second,third and fourth century.......
Constantine did good and brought true Christianity about, it was later that the WEST broke off from the EAST......seperated into two Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox......
It was the West that changed the laws and teachings of the original Christian Church.....
It was the West that started the Crusades.......not the East.....
And today the original Holy Catholic(Universal)Church is still alive and truly teach the teachings and traditions of the early church.....maybe the people and the priests dont follow it corrctly, but it still exists........and will exist up untill the end of the world......


Quote///
The new testament is permeated with references to Christ's divinity and complete qualitative equality with God. When Jesus was asked by the Jews "who do you claim to be," He answered: "before Abraham was, I am." The present tense use of "I am" as opposed to "I was" implies Christ's eternal existance as God. Here Christ takes on the name of God (I AM) in the Old Testament and declares his timelessness. Christ's claims of divinity certainly do not end there, but continue in abundance throughout the New Testament:

"I and my Father are one." John 10:30

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" John 1:1, 3, 10, 14

"Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" John 14:9

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he." John 4:25-26

The prophet Isaiah said "Behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a Son, and shall call his name Emmanuel." Emmanuel translates to "God is with us." In Jesus Christ this prophecy was fulfilled. Indeed, God had come to dwell with, and take on our humanity.
In Christ's crucifixion and rejection by the world we see the ultimate act of love and sacrifice for the human race.
"God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that whoever believes in Him shall have eternal life." Christ mysticaly gave Himself up for the life of the world, justifying man to God again and opening the gates of paradise.


notofthisworld.freeservers.com...



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 06:10 AM
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Would a Pope/Vatican lie or hide the truth?

Of course it would hide the truth from you...they've been doing it for since the beginning. Especially now they could never let the truth out and would kill/murder anyone who would.



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 09:57 PM
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I think the whole thing needs to be put into context.........

First there is GOD right at the top.

Then there are all the various religious groups and sects that see God in a slightly different way. But there is a very firm foundation of spiritual truth in all true religions, and God is at the very top of it all.

Now, what you believe probably depends on what part of the world your parents came from, and how you were brought up. All the various spiritual leaders compete for followers, and this is where church politics, power, and ethnic rivalries come into it.

So if the Pope declares the world is flat, and Gods earth is the centre of all creation, who is to argue ? So the error is perpetuated. Other church leaders are just as bad about these sorts of things.

But there is a more sinister side to it as well. The Freemasons an other secret satanic groups are actively working to undermine all religion. They have infiltrated the Catholic Church now, to an extent where the Pope is just a figure head with little real power.

All these sexual scandals that have been covered up by priests have Freemasonry written all over them. No priest that truly loves and fears God would ever dare do such a thing. So yes, the church is full of evil, lies, deception, and corruption, but that does not mean that there is no God.

This has happened many times in the past in the old testament, and God has very sternly put things right.

And he will again, probably quite soon.



posted on May, 29 2004 @ 10:08 PM
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Sorry to say this but before christianity ancient people including abraham were believers of more than one god, the god we came to end with was their main god, the god of war. Research, bible history has always been one sided. And the vatican had for centuries hide the truth about the true beginings of christianity.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 08:13 PM
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Christianity started with St Paul and his teachings to the non Jewish. This forms a very major part of the new testament.

The beginnings of the Christian Church are hardly hidden, but are available in very great detail. So what exactly is it that the Vatican is supposed hiding about the beginnings of Christianity, I would really like to know ?

The old testament and Abraham is the history of the JEWISH religion, it has little to do with Christianity, except that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the same one true God. None of these religions believe in multiple gods, and never have done.

In really ancient times sure, the non Jews believed in all sorts of things baal, dianna, amongst many other assorted gods and deities. None of that has anything to do with the beginnings of Christianity.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 08:21 PM
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You are right it started with the new testament.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 08:28 PM
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the catholic church/vatican hiding the truth!? that's perposterous. 4 words: Council of Nicea; Fatima



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 08:32 PM
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Helen
If people trully knew what Catholicism stands for and is, this wouldn't be an issue. Sorry you got brainwashed with Protestant propaganda.

Guess you never heard of Eastern Rite Catholics and lumped them unfairly into Orthodoxy.
There are many Rites of Catholicism and the Roman Rite is just one of many. The thing is they all fall in line with the Bishop of Rome (the Pope). It is the Eastern Orthodox that is in schism, not the other way around. They are the ones not in union with Rome.

The Catholic Church is the Catholic Church from the past, it is the same as when Jesus founded it. Jesus is the Head and we are His body. I've been in His Church for 29 years now.


Warp,

"So if the Pope declares the world is flat, and Gods earth is the centre of all creation, who is to argue ? So the error is perpetuated. Other church leaders are just as bad about these sorts of things."-your quote.

The Pope is infallible only when it comes to faith and morals and that is it. The Pope would not speak infallible on this subject. Remember the Pope is the guardian of doctrine and can't change them, he can only change customs. Read www.newadvent.org... to get more familiar of Papal infallibility please.

"But there is a more sinister side to it as well. The Freemasons an other secret satanic groups are actively working to undermine all religion. They have infiltrated the Catholic Church now, to an extent where the Pope is just a figure head with little real power. "-your quote.

Prove it, don't speculate, I want cold hard facts.



posted on May, 30 2004 @ 08:36 PM
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Are you kidding us with this question?

It has happened many times throughout history. We all should know about this kind of stuff.

No se on what the insides of the Catholic Clergy are running on. There are many faithful leaders out there and there are many that went on the darkside.

I think the number of Gods you believe is related to how many voices you have in your head. That is the reason Catholics have all those different saints and idols to pray to.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 01:25 AM
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The Pope is just a human, like all the rest of us.

Not even he is free from the original sin, and because of that, he is prone to sinning. Wether it be lying, stealing, murder, etc etc..

Im sure that between all the different popes, they have sinned every sin you can find mentioned in the bible/religious texts.



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 01:54 AM
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Of course the catholic church lies and the vatican/ pope withholds the truth.

Example: Known child molesters/priests are shuffled from church to church or taken out of direct contact with children. But they do not report what they know has occured.... they hide it. A crime was committed and as further proof the church has had to pay out millions of dollars to victims of pedofilia.

Any church that would not notify you and everyone else including the authorities when a child is molested by one of thier own preachers can't be trusted to guide anyone in matters of spirituality.


I'm not saying the religion is wrong I'm saying the people in charge are wrong and should be ousted.

My own personal view although I can't prove it is that the first translations of the bible were done by the churches and they chose to leave out a lot of writing most specifically any writings that disagreed with the status quo.

Some are still available but i wonder how many were hidden or destroyed because they might cause an uproar in the church.... Yes I believe at this time in history any new findings or writing that don't agree with what is already believed would be hidden or called the work of the devil lol



posted on May, 31 2004 @ 07:22 AM
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Of course they would lie...I'm convinced they know enough to shut the doors of the church down...that certaintly wouldn't be in there best interest...they'd be out of a job and money, not to mention ridiculed...

Cearbhall, the catholic church was not founded by jesus...You would think that if he founded it that the teachings of the church would resemble his own a little more...



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