Man Attempts to Set Off Explosives on Plane

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by mlmijyd
Northwood would seem to argue against this child like thinking and this is only one small pointer there are hundreds of reported actions of your terrorist country USA. Question, who is the only country to use its nuclear weapons (at least twice)? May be people have had enough of your countries appalling war and human rights record in South America, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Africa, Japan, USSR, China .. I know I have.

Well stated. Believe it or not, there are many Americans who know who their true enemy is. Our politicians are completely out of control and wage war with the methods of lining their own pockets. At one time in history, war was an economy stabilizer (it still was wrong), now its sinking our country into nothing.

Operation Northwood is disingenuously used by conspiracist trying to show the US is capable of murdering it's own citizens.

Typically the people making this accusation no nothing at all about the project or much else. It was one of many proposals made by military intelligences in the early 60s. It did not involve murder, more importantly it was rejected out of hand as being unethical. The person who wrote it was ultimately fired from their job.

So even back then the US showed it would not do such an act, but conspiracists still kick and scream about it.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by mlmijyd
Northwood would seem to argue against this child like thinking and this is only one small pointer there are hundreds of reported actions of your terrorist country USA. Question, who is the only country to use its nuclear weapons (at least twice)? May be people have had enough of your countries appalling war and human rights record in South America, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Africa, Japan, USSR, China .. I know I have.

Well stated. Believe it or not, there are many Americans who know who their true enemy is. Our politicians are completely out of control and wage war with the methods of lining their own pockets. At one time in history, war was an economy stabilizer (it still was wrong), now its sinking our country into nothing.

Operation Northwood is disingenuously used by conspiracist trying to show the US is capable of murdering it's own citizens.

Typically the people making this accusation no nothing at all about the project or much else. It was one of many proposals made by military intelligences in the early 60s. It did not involve murder, more importantly it was rejected out of hand as being unethical. The person who wrote it was ultimately fired from their job.

So even back then the US showed it would not do such an act, but conspiracists still kick and scream about it.

I'm not the one who made that claim. I was merely agreeing with the last statement about America being the only one to use nuclear weapons and others in the world who view the U.S. as the terrorists (atomic). I am not educated on Operation Northwood, therefore I cannot speak about it.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

I'm not the one who made that claim. I was merely agreeing with the last statement about America being the only one to use nuclear weapons and others in the world who view the U.S. as the terrorists (atomic). I am not educated on Operation Northwood, therefore I cannot speak about it.

The US developed the atomic bomb in competition with Germany and Russia in the 40s. It used this untried new technology of mass destruction on two Japanese military targets in 1945. The hope was precipitate the end of WWII. It worked. That was 65 years ago. No use of atomic weapons since.

Atomic weapons are now stockpiled at deterrents to conflicts and wars. A dozen major powers have atomic weapons or have programs.

Had the US never developed the atom bomb or used it against the Japanese in 1945, there still would be atomic weapons. The science and technology came from many sources worldwide. Human knowledge does not know national boundaries.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by mlmijyd
Northwood would seem to argue against this child like thinking and this is only one small pointer there are hundreds of reported actions of your terrorist country USA. Question, who is the only country to use its nuclear weapons (at least twice)? May be people have had enough of your countries appalling war and human rights record in South America, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Africa, Japan, USSR, China .. I know I have.

Well stated. Believe it or not, there are many Americans who know who their true enemy is. Our politicians are completely out of control and wage war with the methods of lining their own pockets. At one time in history, war was an economy stabilizer (it still was wrong), now its sinking our country into nothing.

Operation Northwood is disingenuously used by conspiracist trying to show the US is capable of murdering it's own citizens.

Typically the people making this accusation no nothing at all about the project or much else. It was one of many proposals made by military intelligences in the early 60s. It did not involve murder, more importantly it was rejected out of hand as being unethical. The person who wrote it was ultimately fired from their job.

So even back then the US showed it would not do such an act, but conspiracists still kick and scream about it.

Actually, now that I've looked up a few things on Operation Northwoods, it appears that the previous member had some valid points and that there was merit behind what they were saying.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...:NorthwoodsMemorandum.jpg
www.gwu.edu...

Also, Northwoods was performed under McNamara who also approved the Gulf Of Tonkin Incident that forced us into the Viet Nam War. McNamara admitted that it never happened...Henceforth, making it another "false flag incident." This isn't conspiracy, its just fact...The person who designed that war (McNamara) claimed that it never happened.

www.liveleak.com...
www.npr.org...

If they did it once, chances are, they would do it again.

So, on this one, I will have to agree with the other poster.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

I'm not the one who made that claim. I was merely agreeing with the last statement about America being the only one to use nuclear weapons and others in the world who view the U.S. as the terrorists (atomic). I am not educated on Operation Northwood, therefore I cannot speak about it.

The US developed the atomic bomb in competition with Germany and Russia in the 40s. It used this untried new technology of mass destruction on two Japanese military targets in 1945. The hope was precipitate the end of WWII. It worked. That was 65 years ago. No use of atomic weapons since.

Atomic weapons are now stockpiled at deterrents to conflicts and wars. A dozen major powers have atomic weapons or have programs.

Had the US never developed the atom bomb or used it against the Japanese in 1945, there still would be atomic weapons. The science and technology came from many sources worldwide. Human knowledge does not know national boundaries.

I can agree with that. My sources indicate that this is the case, therefore, there's no need for me to really add or subtract to your statements. I still believe that it was irresponsible for America to use such a device against an adversary especially since they weren't fully aware of the implications or the consequences.

[edit on 1-1-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

So another attempt to blow up a plane over US cities will happen, then what? How long do we put up with this behavior before we demand that Islam stop sending terrorists out of their borders to kill Americans?
What is the OIC, CAIR, and all the peaceful muslims doing to prevent Islamic terrorists from committing murder by downing airplanes?

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

I can agree with that. My sources indicate that this is the case, therefore, there's no need for me to really add or subtract to your statements. I still believe that it was irresponsible for America to use such a device against an adversary especially since they weren't fully aware of the implications or the consequences.

Something like 20 Million people had already dies in WWII by mid-1945. The calculation was that ending the war immediately would save countless lives - American, Japanese, Chinese, British, etc.

The deed was done. No one has used an atomic bomb in 65 years.

sometimes the paranoid in me wants to believe that there are forces at work conspiring to disrupt any form of meaningful discourse regarding this topic. of the eight posts on this page prior to this one, only one has been on topic (boy, talk about the signal to noise ratio); all the rest has been like tv news anchors talking to each other, listening to their own voices while at the same time polluting the air waves with their own opinion. well, they can suck their opinions dry but i hope that those of us who still have brains and are capable of using them agree with me when i say that we don't need other people to think for us...

... aight, rant's over (or not).

let's get back to basics. what are the known facts about this bomber? can we list them here on this thread (or do we have to make a new thread)? can we have a discussion of these facts here on this thread?

... to my brilliant fellow ats members, please kindly make the effort to stick to the topic being discussed. we do appreciate your contributions but we don't really need to be dazzled by your knowledge of trivia that isn't directly related to what is being discussed. and if i'm mistaken for saying that what you've posted isn't related, then in that case; yes, you are very welcome to illuminate our ignorance with your boundless torch of wisdom. show us how they relate, that way we can all nod and shake our heads collectively and wonder at your wisdom and ingenuity and say, "how come i didn't think of that?"



thanks

[edit on 1.1.10 by toreishi]

Originally posted by JJay55
So another attempt to blow up a plane over US cities will happen, then what? How long do we put up with this behavior before we demand that Islam stop sending terrorists out of their borders to kill Americans?
What is the OIC, CAIR, and all the peaceful muslims doing to prevent Islamic terrorists from committing murder by downing airplanes?

No one can really be responsible for the free will or the actions of another. Every person operates independently. It would be the same thing if I expected you to be able to stop every Christian who has their own personal agenda. Its an absolute impossibility to stop the madness of others.

reply to post by toreishi

1. Muslim
2. Trained in Yemen
3. Engineer degree
4. obtained explosives
5. lit his pecker on fire.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

No one can really be responsible for the free will or the actions of another. Every person operates independently. It would be the same thing if I expected you to be able to stop every Christian who has their own personal agenda. Its an absolute impossibility to stop the madness of others.

Your insistence in attempting equate the actions of today's Christians extremists with those of today's Muslim extremists is counter productive to what ever points you are attempting to make.

How many thousands have dies over the past ten years at the hands of Muslim extremists? You know full well that Christians have not perpetrated the level of violence on the world, so why do you continue to derail the discussion with your Christian strawman?

Islam has a massive problem on it's hands because a minority of Muslims have used the religion to justify murder. While I believe the great majority of Muslims reject the extremists world view, organizations like CAIR have not helped the religion by remaining largely silent on the criminak actions of the minority.

reply to post by toreishi


Black muslims part of Jamaat ul-Fuqra
1. John Allen Muhammad
2. Lee Boyd Malvo (plan after sniping was to extort money from US govt to use to revruit young boys between Beltway area and Canada)
3. Zacarias Moussaoui "You're allowed to lie for jihad. You're allowed any technique to defeat your enemy."
news.bbc.co.uk...
4. Richard Reid, although not black, recruited from the same environment of prison record, impressionable.

You will notice a change in operation. Since the return of the Pan Am bomber to Libya a new set of plane bombers are being groomed and trained to terrorize the West in 2010. So looking for the last-decade above listed profile isn't going to match the new rich kid Nigerian crotchbomber which are similar to those who pulled off Mumbai.

You will see business men like Atta who are well suited and travelled making multiple stops in different airports, again working with a crew of helpers, that will bomb planes. They will go for population centers where the most destruction can happen. 15 minutes outside Detroit would have made quite an impact. 15 minutes outside other cities puts planes in vicinity of nuclear power plants, and other infrastructure that will give Islam the boost they are looking for now.

Originally posted by toreishi
let's get back to basics. what are the known facts about this bomber? can we list them here on this thread (or do we have to make a new thread)? can we have a discussion of these facts here on this thread?

... to my brilliant fellow ats members, please kindly make the effort to stick to the topic being discussed.

No lectures please. We have gone through hundreds of messages and many links and analysis have been provided for whatever is available.

I suggest reading through to get up to speed.

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by toreishi

 

Black muslims part of Jamaat ul-Fuqra
1. John Allen Muhammad
2. Lee Boyd Malvo (plan after sniping was to extort money from US govt to use to revruit young boys between Beltway area and Canada)
3. Zacarias Moussaoui "You're allowed to lie for jihad. You're allowed any technique to defeat your enemy."
news.bbc.co.uk...
4. Richard Reid, although not black, recruited from the same environment of prison record, impressionable.

You will notice a change in operation. Since the return of the Pan Am bomber to Libya a new set of plane bombers are being groomed and trained to terrorize the West in 2010. So looking for the last-decade above listed profile isn't going to match the new rich kid Nigerian crotchbomber which are similar to those who pulled off Mumbai.

For what it's worth - Richard Reid's father was Jamaican.

AQ is in the market for Anglo-European types who will stand out less
in Western crowds. Word is there's a camp in Pakistan of whiteyes going through special training. If the US was smart they'd have it infiltrated by now.

The next stage of attacks will come from disruption of vital services by hacking into computerized urban power systems. I.e. heating, water, fuel, traffic, satellite, communication systems. These are harder to monitor and the right manipulations could cause incalculable death and destruction.

Something well co-ordinated on multiple levels could knock out a city and have it burning in a couple hours.

The US is employing caught and convicted hackers to prepare counter measures.

The Cold Warrior dinosaurs in the military and intelligence won't figure out what's going on until it's too late.


[edit on 1-1-2010 by mmiichael]

How is it that the CIA or some counter terrorist group has not kicked down your door to question you and your knowledge of these matters?

I'm not wishing that upon you but you seem to post like you know alot about AQ?

If it's hypothetical scenario dropping, brain storming OK but you "word is" comments about White Eyes?

Just curious, what's your intel/miliatary back ground?





[edit on 1-1-2010 by FirstRonin]

Originally posted by mmiichael
The Cold Warrior dinosaurs in the military and intelligence won't figure out what's going on until it's too late.

That's what pisses me off the most. Guys like Murtha are old and need to go. They also block the guys from the era who would be perfect in the field right now because of old rivalries. So the blacklisted guys are just sitting back hoping they aren't popped off before they get their shot again. Silly internal game that gets us with out pants down and the enemy counts on that. So yeah, by the time the dinosaurs get off their wrinkled azzes, AQ is running circles around them.

Meanwhile, Yemen has dispatched 25 more crotchbombers. AQ Morroco has their own set. AQ Iraq is in. TSA is tired from a heavy holiday...

reply to post by FirstRonin

Open source material. You can learn this stuff anywhere.

reply to post by JJay55


Sorry JJay55 my post was directed towards MMichaels comments about knowledge of white terrorists training in Pakistan?

reply to post by FirstRonin

Open source material is still the answer. But I like to hear his responses too.
How long have you been following counter-terrorism and emergency response methods? I've been for about 35 years now, so alot of this stuff just comes naturally.