Man Attempts to Set Off Explosives on Plane

JJ needs to stop. In another thread she told me in 30 days something was going to happen that would change our lives forever and that we would have to fight for our survival. Guess what? We're almost 140 days PAST the date she gave us. lulz.

[edit on 31-12-2009 by EMPIRE]

'Underwear Bomber's' Alarming Last Phone Call

Current and former officials of the Nigerian government, including a source close to the suspect's family, say Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, called his father from Yemen with the warning that it would be his last contact.

It has previously been reported that the man's father, prominent Nigerian banker Alhaji Umaru Mutallab, went to Nigerian and American officials Nov. 19 to warn them that his son had been radicalized by Islamic militants in Yemen.

Details have emerged about Abdulmutallab's final phone call that highlight President Obama's statement that there were "systemic failures" of the country's security system.

ABC News' sources said that during Abdulmutallab's final call, he told his father the call would be his last contact with the family. He said that the people he was with in Yemen were about to destroy his SIM card, rendering his phone unusable.

abcnews.go.com...


[edit on 053131p://bThursday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Night Watchman

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry


By the way, don't you think its a bit strange that George Bush practically dumped the war in Afghanistan to pursue another one in Iraq??? Or, did that seem par for the course for you?

As a matter of fact, George Bush himself said that he didn't put too much time in Bin Laden, after he created a war there. Kind've strange...don't ya think???

The Bush Administration was a disaster but the fact that they chose to use 9/11 as a pretext to invade Iraq does not constitute evidence that the attacks were done by any other than Muslim Extremists. He was going to move on Iraq with or without 9/11. The attacks provided him with a flimsy excuse to move up the time table.

As for the importance of killing or capturing OBL, in reality, his removal carries little operational impact. Psychologically important? Absolutely and it was a grave mistake to pass on the opportunity to take him down but don't be fooled; AQ is an ideology as much as a movement and it will survive long after the figure heads are gone.

GW Bush was not intellectually capable of being President of the United States. We know, in retrospect, that he was steamrolled by the strongest of his supposed underlings. That is proof of nothing, other than the egregious mistake, those of us who voted for him, made.

WAKE UP!!! WAKE UP!!! WAKE UP!!! WAKE UP!!! WAKE UP!!! I am speaking to what's left of your common sense here Night Watchman. If you have critical thinking abilities...For God's sake, USE THEM. And quit entertaining JJAY's nonsense...for real.

It's good to know that you suddenly view me in such a positive light since you have been attacking me throughout most of this thread. Not complaining as I have certainly responded in kind. Just glad to see I have finally proven myself to you.

That said, I assure you that I don't believe anything I read here at face value. I don't always agree with the things JJ writes but I will tell you that she has established credibility with me on some things she has shared that I have corroborated with a LE friend of mine. I don't feel the need to share any more than that and you are free to dismiss my words out of hand.

I will tell you that some of you are so quick to attack her as a fake that you aren't reading what she is actually writing. Most of what she has shared re: the Islamic Fundamentalist agenda is easily researched. Maybe I am misunderstanding her but much of what she is sharing are personal observations/predictions based on information her profession allows her access to.

I don't believe she is claiming to have hard dates and facts. Again, I could be wrong but that's not how I read her.

If you remember Night Watchman, the first attack was made by YOU. Go back and read the posts, and I think you will be shocked who tried to spill the first blood. I was working on JJay when you entered the argument. And, if you were agreeing with much of the nonsense that was/is spewing from JJAy's keyboard, then there's no alternative but to view you in a negative manner...so, YOU'RE right, but, we're beyond that now. After you attacked me, I made it a mission to play the game that you began. Its over as far as I'm concerned.

That being said, JJAY IS DELUSIONAL AND DANGEROUS. I am merely hoping that you extend yourself courtesy enough that, if you take the view that you're taking, to separate yourself from someone that would make you look as much of an extremist as the fools that you claim threaten us. And yes, they do exist.

Personally, I see more to worry about from the inside than the outside. I AM QUITE AWARE THAT THERE IS A TERRORIST THREAT. Does it threaten me, or worry me in the slightest??? No. It does not. There's more of a threat of being mugged in an alley or killed crossing the street than worrying about something that has yet to affect me; and, I think that if you thought about it LOGICALLY, you would come up with the same conclusion.

Fear is what makes us weak...spreading fear to fellow Americans spreads weakness, paranoia, and instability. There's a big difference from educating yourself in order to remain informed, as opposed to consistently trying to feed a fear out of an addiction created by the media. But, you trying to convince me that terrorism is an all pervasive threat is about as effective as me trying to convince you that the media has agendas just like everyone else.

Now, as far as the first part of your post, I can agree with a few key points. However, I think that a huge statement would be made if Osama Bin Laden was captured. It would show some respect to the American people after creating 2 costly wars which was a "supposed" response to being attacked by this very individual. Think what you like, but, it would provide the general populace a little comfort to know that their hard earned tax dollars are actually fulfilling the purpose to which it was designed. Telling the American people that, "I didn't spend much time with Bin Laden," is a slap in the face, especially after our economy almost bottomed out as a result.

Need I remind you that this was the very thing that broke the Russian economy in the 80's? They couldn't sustain a war in that region. Afghanistan has never been defeated. Its something that should be left ALONE. I'd much rather pull out now with bragging rights of survival than look like a fool to the entire MUSLIM world as well as the international community when our economy breaks our ability to wage war when needed.

And yes...you've gained my respect.

[edit on 31-12-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]

Originally posted by EMPIRE
JJ needs to stop. In another thread she told me in 30 days something was going to happen that would change our lives forever and that we would have to fight for our survival. Guess what? We're almost 140 days PAST the date she gave us. lulz.

[edit on 31-12-2009 by EMPIRE]

Thank you EMPIRE!!! Thank you for coming forward and helping to illuminate JJ for who she really is. I have seen so much garbage being spewed by this person that, if it weren't so hilarious, I would be vomiting perpetually. This person is dangerous and should probably be checked into a place where white is all she sees.

New update on the witness who saw the'sharp dressed man' that escorted bomber onto flight!
Kurt Haskell

"For the last five days I have been reporting my story of the so called "sharp dressed man." For those of you who haven't read my account, it involves a sharp dressed "Indian man" attempting to talk a ticket agent into letting a supposed "Sudanese refugee" (The terrorist) onto flight 253 without a passport. I have never had any idea how it played out except to note that the so called "Sudanese reefugee" later boarded my flight and attempted to blow it up and kill me. At no time did my story involve, or even find important whether the terrorist actually had a passport. The importance of my story was and always will be, the attempt with an accomplice (apparently succesful) of a terrorist with all sorts of prior terrorist warning signs to skirt the normal passport boarding procedures in Amsterdam. By the way, Amsterdam security did come out the other day and admit that the terrorist did not have to "Go through normal passport checking procedures".
Amsterdam security, please define to the American public "Normal passport boarding procedures".
You see the FBI would have the American public believe that what was important was whether the terrorist in fact had a passport.
Seriously think about this people. You have a suicide bomber who had recently been to Yemen to but a bomb, whose father had reported him as a terrorist, who supposedly was on some kind of U.S. terror watchlist, and most likely knew the U.S. was aware of these red flags. Yet, he didn't go through "Normal passport checking procedures." What does that mean? Maybe that he flashed a passport to some sort of sympathetic security manager in a backroom to avoid a closer look at the terrorist's "red flags"? What is important is that the terrorist avoided using normal passport checking procedures (apparently successfully) in order to avoid a closer look into his red flags. Who cares if he had a passport. The important thing is that he didn't want to show it and somehow avoided a closer inspection and "normal passport checking procedures." Each passport comes with a bar code on it that can be scanned to provide a wealth of information about the individual. I would bet that the passport checking procedures for the terrorist did not include a bar code scan of his passport (which could have revealed damning information about the terrorist).
Please note that there is a very easy way to verify the veracity of my prior "sharp dressed man" account. Dutch police have admitted that they have reviewed the video of the "sharp dressed man" that I referenced. Note that it has not been released anywhere, You see, if my eye witness account is false, it could easily be proven by releasing the video. However, the proof of my eyewitness account would also be verified if I am telling the truth and I am. There is a reason we have only heard of the video and not seen it. dutch authorities, "RELEASE THE VIDEO!" This is the most important video in 8 years and may be all of two minutes long. Show the entire video and "DO NOT EDIT IT"! The American public deserves its own chance to attempt to identify the "sharp dressed man". I have no doubt that if the video indicated that my account was wrong, that the video would have already swept over the entire world wide web.
Instead of the video, we get a statment that the video has been viewed and that the terrorist had a passport. Each of these statements made by the FBI is a self serving play on semantics and each misses the importance of my prior "sharp dressed man" account. The importance being that the man "Tried to board the plane with an accomplice and without a passort". The other significance is that only the airport security video can verify my eyewitness account and that it is not being released.
Who has the agenda here and who doesn't? Think about that for a minute."

[edit on 31-12-2009 by Clearskies]

I still don't understand how this guy's revelation leads people to immediately jump to FBI involvement. Just because this guy may have witnessed an additional person with the perp, that makes it an FBI cover-up? Am I missing something in Haskell's statement(s)? Or, am I misreading the posters here, about the FBI linkage?

reply to post by JJay55


myself being muslim I can tell you know nothing of islam. besides what fox news tells you. I really doubt you can read arabic. you have this hate for islam that makes u radical against it. am I a terrorist? How about the good muslims at my mosque and the muslim kids, are they terrorist to.

by far islam is the least violent of religions out there. just in my state alone. washington 8 cops have been shot, 7 have died in the last three months along with countless double homocides of women and their kids. this might surprise you. but those acts were done not by muslims.

I am not here to bash on anybody else's religion. history and todays news can prove that "fundies" from other religions have cause more death and terror then any amount of islamic "fundie's"

Insha allah(god willing) you can resolve that hate you have for islam, or just drop the front. real muslims dont kill innocents, dont sucide bomb, and dont discriminate based on religion. I am a real muslim. I love allah. I love america as my country and home. I am married to a evangelic christian women from a big evangelic family. we always get along great

the hate comes in when their are radicals like yourself(it goes both ways) that are hell bent on making the other look bad and evil.

why care so much about some one else religion? if you focused on seeing everyone as people instead of muslims,christians, jews. I think you would see things a little bit clearer.

I myself have been busy not only promoting my book. but ive been debating radicals from the revolution islam group on youtube, along with other real muslims calling out radicals for what they are. real muslims are tired of their religion being highjacked not only by radicals but also by the media. making us out to be monsters when we are not.

I most likely will not respond to your reply just wanted to post my thoughts on the issue.

For those I agree with, or disagree with on this board, I want to set differences aside and say...HAPPY NEW YEAR.

ALL AMERICANS, CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS, JEWISH, BUDDHIST, HINDUS, SCIENTOLOGISTS, AND EVERY OTHER RELIGION THAT MAY EXIST I TRULY LOVE YOU ALL, REGARDLESS OF ANY VIEWS OR IDEOLOGIES.

I give you my best and hope that your new year brings love, peace and truth.

YOU ALL HAVE MY LOVE.

Originally posted by jmacbeth
reply to post by JJay55

 

myself being muslim I can tell you know nothing of islam. besides what fox news tells you. I really doubt you can read arabic. you have this hate for islam that makes u radical against it. am I a terrorist? How about the good muslims at my mosque and the muslim kids, are they terrorist to.

by far islam is the least violent of religions out there. just in my state alone. washington 8 cops have been shot, 7 have died in the last three months along with countless double homocides of women and their kids. this might surprise you. but those acts were done not by muslims.

I am not here to bash on anybody else's religion. history and todays news can prove that "fundies" from other religions have cause more death and terror then any amount of islamic "fundie's"

Insha allah(god willing) you can resolve that hate you have for islam, or just drop the front. real muslims dont kill innocents, dont sucide bomb, and dont discriminate based on religion. I am a real muslim. I love allah. I love america as my country and home. I am married to a evangelic christian women from a big evangelic family. we always get along great

the hate comes in when their are radicals like yourself(it goes both ways) that are hell bent on making the other look bad and evil.

why care so much about some one else religion? if you focused on seeing everyone as people instead of muslims,christians, jews. I think you would see things a little bit clearer.

I myself have been busy not only promoting my book. but ive been debating radicals from the revolution islam group on youtube, along with other real muslims calling out radicals for what they are. real muslims are tired of their religion being highjacked not only by radicals but also by the media. making us out to be monsters when we are not.

I most likely will not respond to your reply just wanted to post my thoughts on the issue.

AGREED. Everything that you said was warranted and justifiable. You enjoy your new year, and I hope that JJAY actually enjoy's her's. I still think that she needs her head thoroughly examined for psychosis, but, that does not stop me from sending my love.

Enjoy.

Not sure if it has been mentioned throughout the posts, but since there was so much anti scanning within airports several weeks ago, do you all see how this has been implemented.

Enjoy.

reply to post by jmacbeth

Comments»
1. Sister Salsabeel - November 3, 2009
This is good news Alhumduillah insha’Allah Allah will accept their dua and efforts .
Our Noble Shaykh Ayman [ HA ] called for the muslims to attack Isreali interest all ove the world so far nothing much has happened and those in the west won’t do it , cause their life is toooooooooooo comfortable and only a hand full care , so we are lost sheep stumbling around in the dark even though we can see the light its just toooooooo much effort to totally submit
I don’t know what disturbs me more the muslims turning apostate in the land of Huramain or the west’s muslims enjoying the fruits of western imperialism and ribba anyway both will fail and crumble and only those slugging away to establish Shariah , justice, Allahs word will succeed Alhumduillah

2. Abu Saad - November 4, 2009
As-Salamu Alejkum brothers and sisters!

Sister Salsabeel#

Not all Muslims in the West enjoy this life without caring about our brothers and sisters in Palestine, Somalia and other parts of the world.

I think many Muslims here in the West are just waiting for the right time and right opportunity to attack Jewish and American interests. Remember that the Mujahideen in Europe attacked London and Madrid and very soon will attack Berlin and Paris InshaAllah!

And Allah knows best!

Wa Salamu Alejkum brothers and sisters!

3. Sister Salsabeel - November 5, 2009
Asalamu Alaikum WRWB blessings of the Day of increase on you all
@ Abu Saad , not many muslims are waiting for a chance to join the caravan , only a few , like one in a thousand as Shaykh Usamah HA) said . And I meant no disrespect to those active they are doing what every man should be doing [ unless exempted by Shariah ]

Some do care yes ,Alhumduillah and are planning righteous works , some do care but not enough to make action or even speak out publicly, or even support their brother who makes the effort , but most dont they are absorbed in duiah , and they will not care until they start to lose until their rights are taken until they are oppressed
Look at how may knowledgable Shayks of the ummah we have in the west , how many have worked it out that as men they should be active in Qital ,, this is the message Im trying to get across that our brothers are failing and they should be ashamed and its not enough to talk about Jihad no no the time of talk has gone

Im only saying and reminding all the brothers especially and myself that at this time Jihad feesabililah is Fard al Ayn for all but only a few here and there are making the effort , most a staying getting wealthier and planning a bright future in the west , as if nothing is happening in the world or even happening to their neighbour this is my experience and like you said only Allah knows.
Ameen to your dua this is certainly bushra Alhumduillah

4. warrir al mujahideen - November 14, 2009
alshabaab will soon destroy the kufr in sha allah

But when the muslims living over seas think in the ways written in the post above they see you as absorbed in the forbidden fruit and mengeling with the infadels and think that killing is needed until all follow sharia law and pray to Allah.

Originally posted by jmacbeth
reply to post by JJay55

 

myself being muslim I can tell you know nothing of islam. besides what fox news tells you. I really doubt you can read arabic. you have this hate for islam that makes u radical against it. am I a terrorist? How about the good muslims at my mosque and the muslim kids, are they terrorist to.

by far islam is the least violent of religions out there. just in my state alone. washington 8 cops have been shot, 7 have died in the last three months along with countless double homocides of women and their kids. this might surprise you. but those acts were done not by muslims.

I am not here to bash on anybody else's religion. history and todays news can prove that "fundies" from other religions have cause more death and terror then any amount of islamic "fundie's"

Insha allah(god willing) you can resolve that hate you have for islam, or just drop the front. real muslims dont kill innocents, dont sucide bomb, and dont discriminate based on religion. I am a real muslim. I love allah. I love america as my country and home. I am married to a evangelic christian women from a big evangelic family. we always get along great

the hate comes in when their are radicals like yourself(it goes both ways) that are hell bent on making the other look bad and evil.

why care so much about some one else religion? if you focused on seeing everyone as people instead of muslims,christians, jews. I think you would see things a little bit clearer.

I myself have been busy not only promoting my book. but ive been debating radicals from the revolution islam group on youtube, along with other real muslims calling out radicals for what they are. real muslims are tired of their religion being highjacked not only by radicals but also by the media. making us out to be monsters when we are not.

I most likely will not respond to your reply just wanted to post my thoughts on the issue.

In shalallah, you don't know me and your accusations are typical of the lack of peacefulness you show to other humans.
All the blessings.

PS I also see you added me as a foe. That isn't really a sign of peace either. So maybe you can explain how Islam is so peaceful to others and shows kindness and love because you are not an example.

[edit on 1-1-2010 by JJay55]

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by jmacbeth
reply to post by JJay55

 

In shalallah, you don't know me and your accusations are typical of the lack of peacefulness you show to other humans.
All the blessings.

PS I also see you added me as a foe. That isn't really a sign of peace either. So maybe you can explain how Islam is so peaceful to others and shows kindness and love because you are not an example.

[edit on 1-1-2010 by JJay55]

JJAY, you were spouting hate about Islam far before this person was on the boards. They merely came to add balance and defend their position. Had this person been doing the same thing as you, I could accept that your response would as abrasive as it was. Also, I saw no overt attacks that this person made against you whatsoever. They were disgusted that you have been so condescending towards their faith and clearly pointed out that their wife was Christian. Obviously, not all Christians share your very limited view point.

How would you feel if there was an entire thread set up about the hatred of your religion with people posting fallacies and outright lies in an effort to paint you as a villain? And guess what, there are plenty of non-muslim enemies of the Christian faith. Just so you know, its quite easy to post a thread against Christianity especially in consideration of Christianity's extremely bloody background. I could make a thread tying your religion to some of the most horrible genocides and acts of terrorism in human history. And believe me, with the knowledge that I have due to religious studies, it would be thorough and hard to refute. However, I'm quite aware that no matter what the background of the Christian religion, there are many practitioners who represent the Commandments the way that they were intended. DO YOU??? I would say not, especially considering your performance on this thread. Making huge blanket statements and sweeping generalizations about an entire religion based off of the actions of a few is weak and archaic.

Now, the fact that they added you as a foe is probably not representative of tolerance. However, I think its an adequate way for them to mark and remember you for your charged statements against an entire population of human beings who have never brought you harm. Try and remember that JJAY. We're all human beings. We all eat, drink, have sex, have families, have children, and people that love us. We're all made of flesh and blood and require oxygen and water to sustain our pathetic little lives. The only thing that separates us are mental constructs developed by ideological schemas that has been promoted and sold by the media. Get your head out of the sand JJAY. Aren't women supposed to be more connected? Aren't women supposed to be more tolerant and in greater touch with humanity? If I were to judge you on your posts alone, I would say that you were some hilljack, skoal chewing mongrel/inbred from the swamps of Florida with a confederate flag painted on their Ford Monster truck. And the image that I see is very male, very lost, and on the borderline of becoming a white supremacist.

Try not to stay hopeless forever JJAY.

[edit on 1-1-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/265a0ec4c930.jpg[/atsimg]
Image from the al-Qimmah forum.

On the right - put a 1 pound bomb up his anus and tried, but failed to kill the Saudi Minister.

On the left - put a bomb between his legs and tried, but failed to blow up a plane.

AQAP seems to have anal fixation.

Originally posted by makeitso

Originally posted by JBA2848
His screen name was "Farouk1986"
www.gawaher.com... is the website he frequented and posted to.
Not sure if anyone out there can pull up some of his post.

Here you go...
Farouk1986 posts at gawaher.com Islamic Forum.

Do ya think I'll get a Fatwa for posting that?

Ah, shucks. They disabled the link I put up to all hsi posts.
Oh, well. They are all available for download

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/34e1d1e20621.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by jmacbeth
reply to post by JJay55

 

by far islam is the least violent of religions out there. just in my state alone. washington 8 cops have been shot, 7 have died in the last three months along with countless double homocides of women and their kids. this might surprise you. but those acts were done not by muslims.

I am not here to bash on anybody else's religion. history and todays news can prove that "fundies" from other religions have cause more death and terror then any amount of islamic "fundie's"

Not that I disagree with the sentiments of your post, but in terms of history Christianity and Islam have been the problem, whereas today just Islam has issues with violence and expansionism. None of the other main religions bother anyone else much, the other players in the mess we're in are ideological, national or imperial.

Islam, amongst the great religions, stands alone in the world for having an element within that is able to quote from its Holy Book to justify savagery.

Originally posted by 12arc

Originally posted by jmacbeth
reply to post by JJay55

 

by far islam is the least violent of religions out there. just in my state alone. washington 8 cops have been shot, 7 have died in the last three months along with countless double homocides of women and their kids. this might surprise you. but those acts were done not by muslims.

I am not here to bash on anybody else's religion. history and todays news can prove that "fundies" from other religions have cause more death and terror then any amount of islamic "fundie's"

Not that I disagree with the sentiments of your post, but in terms of history Christianity and Islam have been the problem, whereas today just Islam has issues with violence and expansionism. None of the other main religions bother anyone else much, the other players in the mess we're in are ideological, national or imperial.

Islam, amongst the great religions, stands alone in the world for having an element within that is able to quote from its Holy Book to justify savagery.

You obviously have not read the Old Testament of the Bible. All sorts of savage acts were encouraged and delivered by Yahweh. Yahweh (The God himself/itself/herself) killed people by flood, murdered 1st born children (passover), played mind games with his supporters (Abraham and his son Isaac), destroyed people by fire and turning them into pillars of salt (Soddom and Gomorrah), and encouraged war between different factions of people. He encouraged the murder of homosexuals, sent plagues of all varieties to wipe out civilizations and turned water into blood. And, Lets not even begin with the thousands of contradictions within the bible that encourages war while offering little parables such as "Turning the other cheek."

The so called “God” of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.

God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.

The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person. Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12 ASV) I don't know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.

The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.

1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: Old Testament God

5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".

6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]

You shouldn't even get me started on the incest stuff.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


This is where you prove your stupidity. Never have I attacked muslims personally. I stand by Islam teaching violence and providing motivation for terrorism.
On the other hand you, and other like you, personally attack me.

The energy you waste on attacking me could be used for better purpose. I am not the enemy.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Your posts seem more and more like those of the Ft Hood shooter and other muslims who have caused violence and taken lives in the name of Islam.
Your support for Islam and justifying actions against America make you one that creates suspicious of your motivation and activity.

Of course you will prove this more by attacking me and pointing your finger at me and accusing me of things that are a sign of projection.


[edit on 1-1-2010 by JJay55]

Originally posted by 12arc

Originally posted by jmacbeth
reply to post by JJay55

 

by far islam is the least violent of religions out there. just in my state alone. washington 8 cops have been shot, 7 have died in the last three months along with countless double homocides of women and their kids. this might surprise you. but those acts were done not by muslims.

I am not here to bash on anybody else's religion. history and todays news can prove that "fundies" from other religions have cause more death and terror then any amount of islamic "fundie's"

Not that I disagree with the sentiments of your post, but in terms of history Christianity and Islam have been the problem, whereas today just Islam has issues with violence and expansionism. None of the other main religions bother anyone else much, the other players in the mess we're in are ideological, national or imperial.

Islam, amongst the great religions, stands alone in the world for having an element within that is able to quote from its Holy Book to justify savagery.

So now, lets go with the Christian Doctrine that allows incest.

Abraham and Sarah...In ancient times, tribal nations preferred endogamous marriage - marriage to one's relatives[1]; the ideal marriage was usually that to a cousin, and it was often forbidden for an eldest daughter to even marry outside the family[1]. Marriage to a half-sister, for example, would be considered incest by most nations today, but it was standard behaviour for Egyptian pharaohs; similarly, the Book of Genesis portrays Sarah as marrying Abraham, her half-brother, without criticising the close genetic relationship between them[2], and the Book of Samuel treats the marriage of a royal prince to his sister as unusual[3], rather than wicked[1]. The issue of consanguinuity is thus a complicated one, and the exact definition of incest varies throughout the Bible and Rabbinical literature.

Adam and Eve...History starts off with only 2 people. Need I say more??? But, I will.

* Some scholars believe that Genesis 9:22, "And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without." may be a reference to homosexual father-son incest.

* Moab and Ammon, nations with which the Israelites had an antagonistic relationship, are accused by the Book of Genesis of being descended from incestuous relationships. Specifically, they are said to descend from sexual activity between Lot and his two daughters, the latter fearing at the time that they and their father were the only people still alive, after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah[18]. However, as noted above, the Bible does not forbid a sexual relationship between a man and his daughter.

* In one of the tales of a wife confused for a sister, Abraham claims that his wife Sarah is also his half-sister, on his father's side[19]. However, in the rabbinic literature, Sarah is considered to be Abraham's niece (the daughter of his brother, Haran).

* In Genesis 38, Judah, the fourth son of Jacob, mistakes his daughter-in-law Tamar for a prostitute while she is veiled, and has sex with her[20].

* The biblical character Amram married his paternal aunt, Jochebed, the mother of Aaron and Moses[21].

* In the Books of Samuel, Amnon, King David's eldest son and heir to the throne, rapes his beautiful half-sister Tamar; two years after Absalom, Tamar's brother, learns of the incident, he orders his servants to have Amnon killed[22].

So, no matter what the religion, there are downfalls and inconsistencies. You need to study your bible or the religions of others if you are to make comparisons.