ATS has been infiltrated with agents of ignorance!

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posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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Ha! That's why I don't post here anymore. If I don't agree with someone then I'm blind, close minded and I need to go back to school. I hate it when people do that!

I was falling into the same pattern, telling people they must be blind if they can't see the truth, then I realized that it was my opinion, my view, not necessarily the truth.

It would be great if everyone responses sounded like this: "In my opinion, I think this is this way because of this" or "I believe that this is this way" instead of "no, you are wrong, this is this way" or "Do you have a degree in that field for you to talk about it"




posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by downisreallyup
 


ok - please describe how a ` zpe ` or ` ovr unity ` device ACUTALY works

you rail against skeptics - but the ` zpe ` faction continu to hand-wave



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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I think something else that isn't mentioned but happens all the time is the sensationalizing of a topic in the headline, making it seem really exciting or intense when in comparison, it's actually quite lame or not the context it's put in.


Something Fox News lives for.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by GideonHM
 


I'll concede one point with you. Which is posting aggressively or in anger, I'm fully aware of what I'm doing and I know that it is an issue.

Outside influences other than ATS is the cause, but that's neither here nor there. Suffice to say I'm working through it.



I bet your father (if he has passed or you are an orphan, all apologies, honestly) would beat the hell out of you if you talked to him like you do to many people here.


I would not speak to him like that, because I respect him and this is why I may speak to certain ATS members in an disrespectful way, because I don't respect them and it's usually for a very good reason.




I never said I was better than anyone. That would be ego. This is simply what it is, an unnecessary social situation on ATS in general that leads to the harassment and ridicule of otherwise normal people.


You don't need to say you're better than anyone else but you're coming off as better than thou and you too are guilty of ridicule, I recall you calling someone an idiot and having to hand them their pair in this very thread, is this not exactly what you're berating me for?




I bet this will only anger you and I am expecting a standard response to what I have to say. I love pleasant surprises, but you don't see anything wrong with your behaviors. That is the problem, and my browbeating you will do nothing but confirm to you my own stupidity through your own world view and perspective.


Nope, no anger here, you got me at a good time of day!

One last thing. The above quote could be (IMHO) directed towards you as well, You don't seem to see your holier than thou attitude, but believe me, it's there.

Maybe you too should take a look in the mirror?



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



The simple reality is that it seems people choose not to listen any more.

Alot of it is caused by people posting their opinions as facts, then expecting everyone to agree with them just because they've said something.

Also, the internet is full of junk science, extreme viewpoints and - in some places - outright idiocy. Its very easy to find something to support the most extreme opinion - even if its absolute bunk from start to finish.

The absolute, utter polarisation of subjects is disturbing to see. No one seems to want to learn or debate, just to condemn and attack and choose to take opposing viewpoints personally.

Its a disturbing trend.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by Damian-007
 


No, people are not entitled to harass, bully, and torture others for their own amusement, and that is exactly what you are defending.


WTF? Where the hell did you get that from? My post? Where do you read that from? You're nut's..


Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by Damian-007
 


You don't realize how dangerous and unproductive that mentality is. If someone doesn't like what they see or hear, no one gave them permission to act in a psychotic fashion to get their jollies off at someone else's expense.


Again, you get this from My Post? How? All I said is "People are entitled to their OPINION". And they are. Same as you are.. At the moment though, you're opinions are a bit far fetched. I do, However, Agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly. I'm sick to death of the way some people are continually posting to harass someone else. It's happening way too much. Thing is, there's not a lot that can be done about it. ATS has wisely given us an Ignore button to push. Use it as you will. Further more, we have to stop replying to these morons. Let them have their say and if you don't reply to them and ignore them, they will hopefully go away..


Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by Damian-007
 


It is immoral for people to behave the way they do under the pretense that they can say whatever they want and can do whatever they want to silence that which doesn't suit them. Many are so blinded by their rage and arrogance, that you can literally QUOTE THEIR OWN WORDS and they will not even notice that they just said it, because they are too busy trying to attack you for attacking from their perspective.


It may be immoral and in some cases it could be illegal (Defamation?). That's the Nature of the Internet. Would you want it anyother way? Would you want it Regulated to such an extent that you would have to give all your Private Details, like opening a Bank Account, before you could access the internet or post?


Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by Damian-007
 


People do not just have free license to say and do whatever they want without consequences. Most are just haters and have given in to their own antisocial desires, as they take everything they can from everyone else.


Unfortunately, at the moment at least, People do have free license here on the internet. There's nothing You or I can do about it.


Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by Damian-007
 


You just defended these people who would throw you into the meat grinder without morals, justification, or sympathy.


WOW!! From one little post I have done that? I'm amazed.
I didn't defend anyone...


Originally posted by GideonHM
reply to post by Damian-007
 


Try and see for yourself how they behave some time if you are willing to witness the S-Storm focused solely on yourself. There is only the illusion of free speech, and as long as stupid, rich, bullies run society, these antisocial, anti people mentalities will rule.


If you read my post you will see I agree with this Entirely.. They blindly ignore any facts presented. I said that in my post and somehow, in your fit of rage, you have Twisted my reply to this thread into something that it wasn't..



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by downisreallyup
 
After reading the 6th or 7th ATS bashing post I fell that this is the very thing that is wrong with America these days.People come here not for what ATS is but what they can change it to......You know "I dont like the way ATS is being handled,I think I'll complain tell its brought around to MY way of thinking"

Pompass egos seem to be the order of the day in 2009.






posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by dodadoom

Like in the chemtrail threads, am I supposed to believe they are up there testing every contrail and suspicious tank on every plane?


ok, let us look at "chemtrails" - Where are the pictures of these planes with "suspicious" tanks? Where is a analysis of any contrail showing these supposed chemicals they are supposed to be spraying. Where are pictures of these planes getting filled with chemicals? - you make the claim about chemtrails, so how about backing that claim up with even one fact - other than "I say they are "chemtrails so they are"


Another perfect example is the norway lights.
What, were they actually there when the missle was fired and followed it and they know exactly for sure what happened?


So were the people claiming it was a UFO, HAARP, black hole, stargate etc etc. there? What evidence do they have to make their claim? A failed missile was launched at the time the trail was seen, other missile launches have produced a similiar pattern


we arent that dumb.
We reserve judgment,


except you do not reserve judgement, you state it was not a missile!


So many things are not a conspiracy at all, but so many things also ring with some amount of truth.


then why not post that truth? most here simply say it is a conspiracy, then post no facts at all to back that claim up.

Like the current demonstration of the "perpetual motion machine" the orbo. those who claim it works ignore the jury that investigated it and said it did not do what was claimed, they ignore that a battery is powering it, they ignore the video footage that shows the machines and batteries being replaced on the live feed - they have no evidence at all that it is working as claimed
And what happened to the Steorn demo talk on the 19/12/09c - funny how the live had no sound, then cut out!

[edit on 19/12/09 by dereks]



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by dodadoom

Like in the chemtrail threads, am I supposed to believe they are up there testing every contrail and suspicious tank on every plane?


ok, let us look at "chemtrails" - Where are the pictures of these planes with "suspicious" tanks? Where is a analysis of any contrail showing these supposed chemicals they are supposed to be spraying. Where are pictures of these planes getting filled with chemicals? - you make the claim about chemtrails, so how about backing that claim up with even one fact - other than "I say they are "chemtrails so they are"


Another perfect example is the norway lights.
What, were they actually there when the missle was fired and followed it and they know exactly for sure what happened?


So were the people claiming it was a UFO, HAARP, black hole, stargate etc etc. there? What evidence do they have to make their claim? A failed missile was launched at the time the trail was seen, other missile launches have produced a similiar pattern


we arent that dumb.
We reserve judgment,


except you do not reserve judgement, you state it was not a missile!


So many things are not a conspiracy at all, but so many things also ring with some amount of truth.


then why not post that truth? most here simply say it is a conspiracy, then post no facts at all to back that claim up.

Like the current demonstration of the "perpetual motion machine" the orbo. those who claim it works ignore the jury that investigated it and said it did not do what was claimed, they ignore that a battery is powering it, they ignore the video footage that shows the machines and batteries being replaced on the live feed - they have no evidence at all that it is working as claimed
And what happened to the Steorn demo talk on the 19/12/09c - funny how the live had no sound, then cut out!

[edit on 19/12/09 by dereks]


dereks, are you able to see or not? The internet is teaming with pictures, videos, websites, analysis, and stories about chemtrails. Just open your eyes man! There is this really cool site on the Internet called GOOGLE! You can go there and type in words like "chemtrails" and you'll be amazed how much shows up. Then click on "images" in the upper part of the website, and you'll see lots of photos.

Then, for even more research fun, you can go to an affiliate site called YOUTUBE, and also use their nifty feature called SEARCH, where you can type in the word "chemtrails" and be inundated by videos, documentaries, and personal accounts of all kinds of chemtrail proof, including the very strange Morgellons disease that is associated with chemtrails.

My gosh, when people say "where's the evidence" it is such a mystery how they can say that when the evidence is piled up in front of them. I guess that is what happens when people really don't WANT to see.

Einstein said that new understanding never gains the victory by convincing the skeptics. It gains the victory when the skeptics die off and a new generation who is familiar with it accepts it.

Just remember dereks, had you been alive before Einstein, you would have been one of the ones calling his theories crackpot science, and refusing to read his papers with an open mind. You would have patted yourself on the back as to how smart you were, and you would have been 100% wrong!


[edit on 19-12-2009 by downisreallyup]



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup

dereks, are you able to see or not? The internet is teaming with pictures, videos, websites, analysis, and stories about chemtrails. Just open your eyes man! There is this really cool site on the Internet called GOOGLE! You can go there and type in words like "chemtrails" and you'll be amazed how much shows up. Then click on "images" in the upper part of the website, and you'll see lots of photos.


here we have someone who believes everything they see and read on the internet must be true, a real agent of ignorance!


you would have been one of the ones calling his theories crackpot science, and refusing to read his papers with an open mind. You would have patted yourself on the back as to how smart you were, and you would have been 100% wrong!


There you go again, making things up. Pathetic really.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by keepureye2thesky
S + F
I agree. I have recently been checking out the debate threads. Cool stuff.
You should attempt a debate thread with those who are putting out these
tactics.

More info here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It would be cool to show in the user signature, info or profile that reflect:
*Challenges made
*To whom
*Inclined
*Declined
*Link to debate (if it happens)

I think it could give more insight to a members integrity for the truth.

If a poster keeps posting "hoax" or "not possible".. blah blah blah
Then let it show that they are not capable even of defending or debating
their stance. And if they accept your challenge, then let the debate begin.

In the future, people can choose to just ignore posters like this, since they
may not have anything to logical to offer. Deny their ignorance and don't
even take their remarks into consideration.

I am not saying that this should reflect ones intelligence, but it could reflect
their willingness to participation in an intelligent discussion.


That is a great idea. Too many users spout ignorance, but when challenged to a debate they decline.

It would certainly help stifle the trolling that's been going on.

Instead of feeding a troll, all that you'd have to do is have users look at your signature and they'll know who is trolling and who is actually fighting for what they believe is the truth.




posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by downisreallyup

dereks, are you able to see or not? The internet is teaming with pictures, videos, websites, analysis, and stories about chemtrails. Just open your eyes man! There is this really cool site on the Internet called GOOGLE! You can go there and type in words like "chemtrails" and you'll be amazed how much shows up. Then click on "images" in the upper part of the website, and you'll see lots of photos.


here we have someone who believes everything they see and read on the internet must be true, a real agent of ignorance!


you would have been one of the ones calling his theories crackpot science, and refusing to read his papers with an open mind. You would have patted yourself on the back as to how smart you were, and you would have been 100% wrong!


There you go again, making things up. Pathetic really.


This is my last post, as I will not continue to feed the troll known as dereks. Here you have responded to my challenge with two comments, neither one saying anything. In the first you said that I believe EVERYTHING on the internet, which I do not. I only believe things that make sense, and there is more than enough photographic/video evidence to support chemtrails. You are simply in denial.

And the second one you did another deflection, saying nothing.

To this futile end, I am now signing out of feeding this troll any more. I think he has been fed more than enough... too much really. I'm still waiting to see ANY thread dereks has introduced.... it will never happen.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by dereks
 


LOL

prime example of what the OP mentioned.

sad thing is it happens all the time.

and it won't stop.

not until the day the internet dies.

oh boy, won't that be bad for them trolls.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by downisreallyup
 


ok - please describe how a ` zpe ` or ` ovr unity ` device ACUTALY works

you rail against skeptics - but the ` zpe ` faction continu to hand-wave


Okay, I will put it into a simple, easy-to-follow, explanation:

These motor/generators harness the radiant energy from the vacuum, otherwise known as Vacuum Energy, ZPE, or as Bedini calls it "negative energy."

Article on Vacuum Energy

In order to understand how this works, let's list some of the features of this energy:

1) In a regular circuit, electrons travel from negative to positive potential, and at the same time, positive "holes" travel from positive to negative. This is also known as the counter-electromagnetic force, or CEMF.

2) This vacuum energy shows up in the energy spike that occurs when a DC circuit is switched.

Notice the following explanation:



Of all the great inventions and discoveries of Nikola Tesla, nothing stood out with greater potential benefit to the whole of humanity than his discovery of Radiant Energy in 1889. The series of observations that led to the discovery of Radiant energy initially grew out of experiments that Tesla had conducted in an attempt to duplicate the results that Heinrich Hertz had claimed to achieve in affirming the existence of electromagnetic waves, the discovery of which Hertz announced in 1887.

While replicating Hertz's experiments, Tesla experimented with violently abrupt DC electrical discharges and discovered a new force in the process. Only after conducting exhaustive experimental trials for the next three years, did Tesla announce this stupendous discovery in a paper published in December, 1892, entitled "The Dissipation of Electricity".

Incredibly, most academicians of the day completely missed the mark in understanding the true significance of his paper. Noted scientists such as Sir Oliver Lodge, mistakenly thought that Tesla was referring to high frequency AC electricity in the operation of the Tesla Transformer, a huge blunder that remains to this day in the misnaming and misinterpretation of the Tesla Coil.

The transformer that Tesla referred to in the 1892 paper did not operate on magnetic/electric field induction created by alternating currents. It operated in an entirely new domain of physics based on abrupt discharges of electrostatic potentials and the subsequent release of kinetic Radiant Energy from the omnipresent ether.

Tesla was now operating under entirely new rules which he referred to as "dynamic" electro-static forces and had, by now, completely abandoned any further interest in the AC waveform.

The genesis of the Lodge misunderstanding, however, began a few years earlier with the publication of certain mathematical formulas by a brilliant Scotsman named James Clerk Maxwell.


Source

So, this "radiant energy" that gets released from the vacuum when a DC current is switched is what is being captured by the successful over-unity motor/generators. Normal electronics sees these as unwanted "spikes" to be eliminated, but in reality, they are the key to the future!

John Bedini and Tom Bearden have done the best job, in my opinion, of providing the theoretical basis for how these motors work. Here is a summary of how they describe them:

1. magnets are organized around a spinning flywheel such that they form a mono-pole EM field. They are arranged so the pull force between the wheel and surrounding coils causes the wheel to turn. As the flywheel spins, it creates a continuous pulsing stream of radiant energy spikes followed by electrical current. The circuitry is arranged so that it turns off the current flow to the charging battery just before the electrical current begins, thereby capturing just the radiant energy into the battery.

2. The battery is the key component for converting the radiant energy triggered by the EM motor into usable electrical energy. The amount of normal energy released from the radiant energy is roughly 5 times greater than the energy required to turn the generating motor. That is why this radiant energy appears as a big energy spike.

Here is one of the Bedini videos showing John Bedini explaining all this very well, and also showing it with his machines:



So, if you really want to know how these things work, look at the video and look into the concepts, and the various things that forward thinking scientists have found. It all began with Tesla and since then you have two camps: those who look for ways to implement Tesla's ideas, and those who desperately want to ignore and/or "disprove" what he found. The real question you have ask yourself is this: all these people who say "it can't work" fail to provide any proof of that, except perhaps their highly contrived self-referencing formulas, which are all based on their own set of postulates, which are clearly incomplete. Why is that? Well, here is one possibility:

These motors clearly do not violate the laws of physics, rather they operate on a set of laws that are not widely known or understood in the mainstream scientific community. If the current power-structure adopts this new technology, not only would it completely obliterate the reputations and standing of many scientific/academic leaders, but it would also have a devastating effect on the current social-economic power-structure of the world. This alone is good enough to explain why many great technologies are held back, suppressed, and opposed by the current set of scientific/political leaders.



[edit on 19-12-2009 by downisreallyup]



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by downisreallyup
 


Here's a hint: If you intend to present a novel scientific innovation, don't give me a youtube video of a guy's garage. Rather, give me a link to article from a scholarly, peer-reviewed journal. I have a youtube video of a cellphone turning into a gremlin when placed in the microwave. How many of you are concerned that your cell phone will turn into a gremlin? Yeah - thought so.



posted on Dec, 19 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by andrewh7

Here's a hint: If you intend to present a novel scientific innovation, don't give me a youtube video of a guy's garage. Rather, give me a link to article from a scholarly, peer-reviewed journal.


That is all he can give you, as the last thing the people making these claims want is peer review, as that will expose them as the frauds that they are!


I have a youtube video of a cellphone turning into a gremlin when placed in the microwave.


Please do not post that, otherwise the OP will really think it is true!!



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by dereks
 

Gee whiz Dereks, I dont know how you read all that into my post!
You better go back and reread it again.
Nowhere do I claim what you said I did! Wow!

And then you go and say this:


There you go again, making things up. Pathetic really.

And yet thats exactly what you did to me.
Don't ever accuse me of saying something I didnt.



[edit on 20-12-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by andrewh7
 


John Bedini is doing it man! He is making it work and he understands the electronics FAR more than anyone who has written "peer reviewed" papers. Your so-called inner-bred cabal of "scientists" are just the result of intellectual incest, full of theoretical blindness!

Here is the flaw in your logic:

1) Scientists only pay attention to peer-reviewed papers to establish truth.
2) Only papers that contain established truth are published in peer-reviewed journals.

This is circular-reasoning and incestuous! In this little "good 'ol boys club" scheme, the accepted-doctrine is cast in stone, and only those papers that support the doctrine are published. It is "preaching to the choir" in a most egregious fashion.

If a new theory comes along, or a new device is made that appears to contradict the assumed truth, it is not even looked at or seriously considered because "it just can't happen." This is not science! It is a god-less religion, just like all religions, crafted to keep the top dogs "scientists" firmly planted in their top positions, and baring the door to anything that would upset the applecart.

Here's a hint for you: don't waste my time pretending to be a scientist when you are really just an evangelist for the status quo. How do I know you are that? Well, because you won't address the claims made by John Bedini, but instead you do what all purveyors of "status quo" do... you deflect, attack, and insult, all so you can keep from having to give an answer in your defense... an answer that is based on observable facts.

The fact is, if I did present you with a paper, you would either not look at it, or you would find that particular journal not to your liking, or you would present other papers that contradict it, or you would find some trumped up allegation against the paper's author, or any other raft of deflections. As long as you don't have to give a fair and honest response to the alleged facts, you will feel safe and happy...

By the way, here is a peer-reviewed paper that deals with some of the scientific ideas behind these devices:

Paper on Quantum Vacuum Field



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by andrewh7

Originally posted by daggyz
You are simply frustrated by those you can't convince. There are many things that people hold dear based on what they are taught but still have no real eveidence of (evolution) would be one example that people believe but holds no proof as there is none that is convincing.
[edit on 19-12-2009 by daggyz]


This forum has hosted evolution debates many times. There are entire college courses just on evolution. Evolution has plenty of evidence. Just because you would prefer to keep your head in the sand, hiding pleasantly in ignorance doesn't mean that the evidence does not exist.

I myself have spent hours trying to convince people like yourself to get an education and it typically has no effect whatsoever. I suggest you begin with the question of why you must continue taking antibiotics even after you start feeling better. Ask your doctor or do a 2 minute google search.

You won't do this simple task however because you prefer to remain ignorant. That's your choice but I won't remain silent as you try to spread your ignorance to others.

If reading is too complicated for you, I suggest searching Google video for a PBS miniseries called "Evolution" - probably one of the best compilations I've seen. Perhaps you are the one with an "idea held dearly." Evolution is a fact and it is observable in real time. In the long term, it is recorded in our genetics and the fossil record. Almost every bite of food you've ever eaten has likely been produced as a result of selective breeding and agricultural engineering (manmade evolution that is driven by our own demands). To argue against evolution while simultaneously reaping the benefits of man's harnessing of its power makes you nothing less than a hypocrite.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by andrewh7]


Hahaha
You are so funny the way you confuse evolution with adaptation! Not very honest of you though to use clear adaptation examples to try and prove something as ridiculous as "natural selection" leading to species mutation into higher forms.

Clearly there is a huge difference between small adaptive changes that do not introduce any new mechanisms and species or genus transmutation that adds new, beneficial information, function, and form out of thin air, which clearly violates information theory and the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Any study of the animal kingdom that includes a study of the objective signs of design will clearly reveal that two issues, which cannot be ignored, deal a fatal blow to evolution:

1) Irreducible complexity
2) A lacking of the required vast supply of intermediate highly-mutated fossils

If you or anyone else in this thread doen't know what these are or can't see how they obliterate evolution (not adaptation), then I will take the time to explain them.

Argue all you want about so-called "science", but these two things are absolutely undeniable and unexplainable by the evolutionary doctrine of "self-directed something from nothing." These are nails in the coffin of this obsolete "theory" that is just ridiculous to any real thinking man.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:28 AM
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Sadly, new members and some regulars don't appreciate that some of us do have contacts, we are privy to certain information. Sometimes, we cannot name individuals (I did once, lost the contact).

My advice, research hard, e-mail around and gain knowledge
You guys should feel free to contact me at any time for advice. I don't mind and are here to help

Before I go on, GideonHM can you stop trying to get my attention. You are on my ignore list and I've been told you replied just to attack me? This is getting childish now, this forum stalking. Do I have to inform the moderators? Go back to SHTF411. Their more suited to your mentality.


Stop twisting the words of a new member and accusing him/her of supporting immoral acts. Guys, click ignore.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by infinite]





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