Catholic Bishop; Let's call God Allah

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by Animal

 

I agree with the other posters; calling God Allah seems too much like appeasment and surrender.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by FortAnthem

 

I agree with the other posters; calling God Allah seems too much like appeasment and surrender.

IMO, that's pretty much all it is.

I COMPLETELY agree, western Christians making the choice to call their God, whom they call God, Allah in place of God would be an act of appeasement. It would also be a testament to their faith no?

Main Entry: ap·pease
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpēz\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ap·peased; ap·peas·ing
Etymology: Middle English appesen, from Anglo-French apeser, apaiser, from a- (from Latin ad-) + pais peace — more at peace
Date: 14th century

1 : to bring to a state of peace or quiet : calm
2 : to cause to subside : allay
3 : pacify, conciliate; especially : to buy off (an aggressor) by concessions usually at the sacrifice of principles
synonyms see pacify

Link

Tell me what 'principles' would be sacrificed? Would such a 'sacrifice' not be worth the 'peace' it would bring?

reply to post by Animal

Tell me what 'principles' would be sacrificed? Would such a 'sacrifice' not be worth the 'peace' it would bring?

The sacrifice would be our christian identity and all that it means to worshop Jesus Christ as the redeemer of mankind.

The peace it would bring would mean submission to shira law and being treated as 2nd class citizens by our new oppressors. Islam commands it's followers to conquor and to bring all men into submission with Islam, by force if necessary.

Making peace with Islam would be as effective as the peace that was made with Hitler. Haven't we learned this lesson enough times throughout history by now.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
The sacrifice would be our christian identity and all that it means to worshop Jesus Christ as the redeemer of mankind.

"ALL that is means to worship Christ'? How so?

The peace it would bring would mean submission to shira law and being treated as 2nd class citizens by our new oppressors. Islam commands it's followers to conquor and to bring all men into submission with Islam, by force if necessary.

How would changing the phrase from "God" to "Allah", which mean the EXACT same thing, bring about your submission to Sharia Law?

Making peace with Islam would be as effective as the peace that was made with Hitler. Haven't we learned this lesson enough times throughout history by now.

Sorry I am calling this out as an openly racist statement that has no place is open, honest, and intelligent debate.

I can understand the emotional aversion to the premise of calling God - Allah, but I have a hard time understanding the intellectual rational for such an aversion.

Perhaps if you tried to think of it in these terms you could come up with a more persuasive argument.

[edit on 12-12-2009 by Animal]

reply to post by Animal


Calling God Allah would be seen as a sigh of weakness by the moslems. Theirs is a religion of violent conquest and they would pounce on any concessions made by christians, demanding more and more until they have the whole world under shira law.

You can call me racist if you like (I prefer the term religiously intolerant), but a study of history and the teachings of Islam show the truth of what I am saying.

Maybe if you took your nose out of that dictionary to look at the world around you, you might take notice to the fact that Islam is working actively to bring the world under her dominion.

Very interesting thread. Who would have known that Allah and God mean the same thing. But I am not for Christians calling their God Allah. Why should they change the name of their God, which is very personal for them. If Allah and God mean the same thing, would the Muslims be willing to call their God Jesus?

A single religion for the whole world is a very intriguing thought but I doubt it can be practically achieved. IMO all religions lead to the same place and whatever name you call God, he is still there. So don't fret about the different names of God as they all point to him.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
Theirs is a religion of violent conquest and they would pounce on any concessions made by christians, demanding more and more until they have the whole world under shira law.

I have a very good friend who is studying here in the states named Imran. He is a Muslim man from western India. Knowing him I have been introduced to a fair number of Muslims and I must say they are all very kind and tolerant people. In no way do they come across as violent, intolerant, pushy, or interested in what I believe.

You can call me racist if you like (I prefer the term religiously intolerant), but a study of history and the teachings of Islam show the truth of what I am saying.

It also shows Christianity to be an extremely violent and intolerant religion.

Maybe if you took your nose out of that dictionary to look at the world around you, you might take notice to the fact that Islam is working actively to bring the world under her dominion.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

[edit on 12-12-2009 by Animal]

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


This is the stupidest damn thing I've ever read, get your literature and facts right you arrogant Christian.

The Koran SPECIFICALLY says to kill a innocent human is like killing all of humanity, as it does to save a human life is like saving all of human kind, it doesn't say go out and kill people you childish illiterate.

I'm agnostic, but I have my facts straight and you've stepped out of your boundaries.

reply to post by Animal

It also shows Christianity to be an extremely violent and intolerant religion.

Christianity is a religion of peace; it teaches us to turn the other cheek and to convert others by our example.

CHRISTIANS on the other hand, being fallen creatures suseptable to concupisence, can be extremely violent and intolerant. No arguement there.

I'm getting tired and cranky. If I have offended, I apologize.

I am just trying to get across why Christians take offence at being asked to call our God Allah.

If I had any religion it'd be Buddhism, why? Because they don't start wars.

Christians, peaceful? HAH, Look at Hitler, was he so peaceful? Hmmmm.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
Christianity is a religion of peace; it teaches us to turn the other cheek and to convert others by our example.

This has not always been the dogma of the church though. (ie) crusades.

CHRISTIANS on the other hand, being fallen creatures suseptable to concupisence, can be extremely violent and intolerant. No arguement there.

Fair argument.

But from the Koran:

"...whosoever killeth a human being... it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind..."

So maybe it is also the failing of the Muslim and not the religion?

I'm getting tired and cranky. If I have offended, I apologize.

No need to apologize, this is one of the more civil debates I have had lately on ATS. Thanks for sharing your point of view.

I am just trying to get across why Christians take offence at being asked to call our God Allah.

Very understandable.

God has many names but God is not different, its the men that say they speak for God that cause the division. Worship God not religion (everyone has one, even the Greenies worship global warming) Do your time, be a good person and hope for parole, Peace.

I am a Christian, and the only reason that I am against this is that Allah and God are not one and the same.

Christians believe that God has a son, named Jesus Christ.

Muslims believe Gd has no son. Jesus was no more than a man to them.

Therefore God and Allah are not the same, and should not be treated as such... in my opinion. I understand there are those who do not see it like that.

The two incompatible facts just can't be reconciled. Muslims can say Christians misinterpreted the scriptures all they want, and Christians can say the Muslims are worshiping a false god as well. Either way each one believes in their own separate god. They do not worship the same one.

reply to post by one_enlightened_mind


.....


You do realize the bible was originally wrote in Arabic, right? And that God was more than likely referred to as Allah in the bible, right?

reply to post by Revolution-2012


Just a few corrections.

1). Buddhists have been involved in wars. Not on the scale of some of the other mainstream religions but they have been involved in war. Although, like Christianity, Buddhism teaches pacifism, they are allowed to engage in battle and some forms of martial arts are even intertwined with Buddhism.

2). Hitler most likely posed as a Christian to garner the sympathy of the majority Christian people in Germany. You should look into his private memoirs where he pretty much vocally denounces Christianity and ridicules it left and right.

3). The Bible was not originally written in Arabic. The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew (and parts of Daniel written during the Babylonian captivity were written in Aramaic) while the New Testament was written in Greek.

Now, there ARE early century Arabic translations of the Bible but it was not the original language.

Hope that helps.

[edit on 12/12/2009 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


AshleyD, I value your opinion and I understand monks do practice martial arts, but strictly for self-defense and if you've read Siddhartha you'd notice they tend to be generally ascetic, as in they do not need to be part of the outside world and they are one with nature.

More importantly, Hitler was Christian, very Christian, but he was a radical, as are Al Quaeda etc, for Christ's sake the man wanted to find the Holy Grail, I've researched much to much about WW2, Hitler, etc, given I am German and my father's family hails from Germany est. 1940.

Well...it is good I guess that he thinks God doesn't mind what he is called.
Cause I call her a bunch of things, when I don't call him Zeus.

reply to post by Animal

How would changing the phrase from "God" to "Allah", which mean the EXACT same thing, bring about your submission to Sharia Law?

How can you possibly say God and Allah are one and the same? The Abrahamic God the Christians worship is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Are you telling us that Islamists worship the Trinity?

Islam teaches that Christ was a prophet, but not The Messiah. Christianity teaches Christ Jesus is the Messiah. Belief in Christ Jesus as the Savior is what the foundation of Christianity stands on, without that belief there is no Christianity!

They are not the same and Allah was the "Moon God"

Many non-Muslims have come to incorrectly believe that Allah is the ‘God of Muslims’ – A deity somehow different from the God of the other faiths. It should be emphasized that the term “Allah” has no implied meaning at all of an Arabian god, a Moon god or even a Muslim god. Muslims are not claiming any exclusiveness when they say "Allah". However Allah is simply the Arabic Name of the one Almighty God; the same name by which Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians, refer to God. The Allah comes from the term ‘al-ilaah’. Al is the definite article in Arabic, equivalent to ‘the’ in English, while ilaah means ‘a deity or god’. So Allah means The God.

Islam teaches that God is Merciful, Loving and Compassionate and that He has no need to become man (nor do humans need for Him to). One of the unique aspects of Islam is that it teaches that man can have a personal and fulfilling relationship with Almighty God without compromising the transcendence of God. In Islam there is no ambiguity in Divinity, God is God and man is man. Muslims believe that God is the “Most Merciful”, and that he deals directly with human-beings without the need of any intermediary. Actually, the phrase “In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful” is one of the most repeated verses in the Holy Qur’an.

Additionally, the pure and straightforward teachings of Islam demand that Almighty God be approached directly and without intermediaries. This is because Muslims believe that God is completely in control of everything and that He can bestow His Grace and Mercy on His creatures as He pleases - no Atonement, Incarnation or blood sacrifice is necessary. In summary, Islam calls people to submit to the One True God and to worship Him alone without any partners.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Same reason why English translations of the Koran still use the word 'Allah' instead of God. They generally don't even translate it although they translate the rest of the text into English. Allah stays Allah. That's a big sign for me concerning just how important 'God' vs. 'Allah' is. It's more than a simple translation issue we're dealing with.

[edit on 12/12/2009 by AshleyD]

THE reason why they donot translate allah to god coz GOD can have many meanings, christian believe trinity of god,hindu believe in MANY gods..
but muslim believe in one almighty god....
if any one whats to translate ALLAH, IT SIMPLY MEANS "ONE ALMIGHTY GOD"

[edit on 13-12-2009 by zilch]

[edit on 13-12-2009 by zilch]

Originally posted by FortAnthem

The christian God is a loving creator who sent his Son down to pay the price for man's sins. He commands His followers to convert all mankind through holy example and non-violence.

[edit on 12-12-2009 by FortAnthem]

ROTFLMAOOOO
I guess you never read the Old Testament?
You should check it out, quite the loving God there.
Good times....