Catholic Bishop; Let's call God Allah

Originally posted by paxnatus
How can you possibly say God and Allah are one and the same? The Abrahamic God the Christians worship is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Are you telling us that Islamists worship the Trinity?

Islam teaches that Christ was a prophet, but not The Messiah. Christianity teaches Christ Jesus is the Messiah. Belief in Christ Jesus as the Savior is what the foundation of Christianity stands on, without that belief there is no Christianity!

They are not the same and Allah was the "Moon God"

Perhaps look back over my posts where I clearly show that Allah has the SAME definition as God. I also show that early Christians also used the word Allah in place of God. I have clearly demonstrated that God and Allah are for all purposes the same thing. The only difference is personal culture and tradition, not the 'meaning' of the word.

Yes The Christ Jesus is the Messiah but he is the SON OF GOD. Jesus is an ASPECT of God, part of the trinity. We don't worship the Holy Spirit in Church we worship God AND the holy spirit. It is the same with Jesus who was BORN of God on the earth to bring us his 'Christian' message of Christianity (which I find hard to swallow, perhaps paulianity is a better term). You could still have the trinity while using the word Allah, it would go like this Allah the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Yes, the God that the Muslims worship is the moon God. By definition he can also be called God as God and Allah are interchangeable.

ALLAH, JEHOVA, KRSNA,RAMA,GOVINDA. It doesn't matter. The sooner people wake up and realise theyr'e all the same the better instead of squabling and fighting like a bunch of cats and dogs.

All I have to say in response to this Catholic is conveyed in the signs that go up where I live..

Originally posted by bargoose
ALLAH, JEHOVA, KRSNA,RAMA,GOVINDA. It doesn't matter. The sooner people wake up and realise theyr'e all the same the better instead of squabling and fighting like a bunch of cats and dogs.

Well, while I obviously agree with you issues such as this are extremely difficult topics. We are after all talking about he deities that people worship. You know, talking about peoples moms can get you hit, talking about their gods can start a war.

The issue really needs to be addressed in a manner that deals both with intellect, which is what your post does, but it also needs to be done with an emotional and cultural perspective.

I find it to be a rather rich topic though.

Also, another interesting point of view that could be argued is why not ask Muslims to start calling Allah - God?

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by For(Home)Country

 

I suppose the difference has to do with a little more than just semantics.

The christian God is a loving creator who sent his Son down to pay the price for man's sins. He commands His followers to convert all mankind through holy example and non-violence.

I can show you few excerpts to prove your point invalid. Christian God is not that of loving, but of hatred and revenge.

Christian God sent his son to suffer and die for the sins of the humankind, what kind of loving father does this to his son?

And who was the God that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? Who was the god who allowed whole earth to be flooded just because he had made an mistake? Who is the loving Christ that in the revelation of John comes to judge the earth and will allow many kind of devastating events to take place?

I wonder, according the teachings of the bible, if Christians even know what love is?

-v

[edit on 13-12-2009 by v01i0]

After Muhammad took control, the creator of the world and giver of rain, aka Allah, was converted to the great God. This is not the Christian God, as many posts have said before mine.

If I have my facts correct, there were many gods in Arabia before Muhammad. Literally, there were gods for every day of the year. However, Muhammad received prophecy that there was only one God. This is where Christians and Muslims connect. It is likely that Muhammad was influenced by his first wife, who was a Catholic and rich.

However, by comparison, the first century of Christianity was not marked by killing unbelievers, rather more marked by killing believers. Muslims killed unbelievers to spread their religion.

We have a similar situation with Mormons. There are many many similarities. Mormon/Moslem same number of letters, starting with M. Both started by a prophet who promoted polygamy. Both changed the Trinity, i.e., they made up their own version of God. Both used force to promote their religions (re: Mountain Meadows Massacre). Both erected temples of worship. Both had military forces. The list goes on.

Expect many false religions to crop up, whether in the distant past or in the present. You will know them by their false teaching about the nature of the godhead. They will all deny the Trinity.

While the word Trinity is not shown in the Bible, the nature of the Trinity is throughout the Bible, demonstrating that the one God is made up of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This has been outlined in another thread.

If you want to find a true church, look for one that:

1. Believes in the Trinity
2. Does not teach tithing

That will get you on a good start. It eliminates a lot of them.

Originally posted by v01i0

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by For(Home)Country

 

I suppose the difference has to do with a little more than just semantics.

The christian God is a loving creator who sent his Son down to pay the price for man's sins. He commands His followers to convert all mankind through holy example and non-violence.

I can show you few excerpts to prove your point invalid. Christian God is not that of loving, but of hatred and revenge.

Christian God sent his son to suffer and die for the sins of the humankind, what kind of loving father does this to his son?

And who was the God that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? Who was the god who allowed whole earth to be flooded just because he had made an mistake? Who is the loving Christ that in the revelation of John comes to judge the earth and will allow many kind of devastating events to take place?

I wonder, according the teachings of the bible, if Christians even know what love is?

-v

Wow.

Do you really think that was the purpose behind the bloodshed in the Bible? God hating men? God hating his Son? Just wondering if you have read the Bible, or if you are going by what others have said....

Let's cover a couple of your points above.

1. Christian God sent his Son to pay for your sins so you would not have to pay. Justice must be paid. For a crime, there is a mandatory punishment. If any man will come into the presence of God (heaven), who is pure of sin, he must also be free of sin. The only way that can possibly happen is if His Son paid the price for you. Hence, the only way back for you and I is because of that sacrifice. That's love. "Greater love hath no man than this: that a man lay down his life for a friend." Jesus said He willingly laid down His life and took it up again for you and I. Therefore, God didn't just "do it to him."

2. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroying good people. If you had a virus that was killing good people, would you be merciful to kill the virus, or would you continue to let the people die? You be god, make a choice.

3. God allowed the world to be flooded for the same reason as 2 above.

4. Devastating events, like warfare, can cause people to turn their hearts and minds to God. Is that a bad idea?

[edit on 13-12-2009 by v01i0]

[edit on 12/13/2009 by Jim Scott]

Call God what you want. This should be down to every individual man or woman and not a decision that should be made for you. In my opinion a true God would not care what you call him as long as you are pure of heart and soul.

Originally posted by WeShallBeFree
Call God what you want.

So true, WSBF.



Zeus, God, Mithra, Allah, Woten, Creator, Elvis, Yogi Berra, Buddha, Donald Trump, Jesus, Lug, Meister Eikhart, Anubis, Woten, Roy Rogers...

Names, and you know what they say about roses and names.

So, who really is God?

It's each and every one of you and every thing that exists in this wide unexplored universe, from the largest to the smallest.

Well, that's just my opinion and doesn't need to be yours, but there's at least one otherperson that agrees with the idea, Victor Wooten:



Call God by any name you choose. It just doesn't matter when the Entirety of that Spirit is everything inside and outside of you.

Oh, yeah... and there's only one commandment that counts for anything, no matter what name you want to give that Entity of Spirit. It's the same one behind every other religion out there. The one that talks about treating others as you prefer to be treated. That's wisdom you can use even if you don't believe in any of the religions.

The more that practice the Golden Rule, the better our lives would be.

reply to post by masqua


Excellent points. And of course:

WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN! WOO-TIN!


Edit to add a related tune: Sojourn of Arjuna - Bela fleck and the Flecktones

[edit on 13-12-2009 by Animal]

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by Animal

 

Calling God Allah would be seen as a sigh of weakness by the moslems. Theirs is a religion of violent conquest

I love that argument, you can metanlly separate yourself from the Muslims because "theirs is a religion of violent conquest."

It is so nice when you hear the pot calling the kettle black.

As far as I can recall Christianity was also a religion of "violent conquest??"

Was it not Christians who enslaved African Americans, enslaved Central and South Americans and who also killed and robbed Native Americans?

But those people were all barbarians who didn't worship your God right?

Sounds like violent conquest to me....

Oh but you are not that kind of Christian right? Real Christianity didn't actualy start until some time in the 20th century right?


I would like to add that I agree with AshleyD, everyone should call God Yahweh because as far as the semetic religions go, Judaism is the root of all of it.

Unless we got really technical and forced everyone to call God "Anu" the Chief God of the Sumerians. To whom Abraham learned from....



[edit on 12/13/2009 by dalan.]

[edit on 12/13/2009 by dalan.]

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
I can see Christians calling God "Allah", and then offending Muslims with the way they speak to him or treat him. "Jesus is the son of Allah...".

I think the idea is a great way to cause conflict.


[edit on 12/12/09 by NuclearPaul]

"Jesus is the son of Allah...".

lol, yes I guess he didn't think of that,

Lately I have been having this strange notion that soon Christians, Muslims and Jews will combine into a powerful world changing force,

We'll see.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by For(Home)Country

 

The christian God is a loving creator [...] He commands His followers to convert all mankind through holy example and non-violence.

The Moslem Allah is a capricious diety who demands submission from his followers and demands they convert the world by the sword.

I sincerely have to disaggree! The Bible and the Koran are, as documents written by humans and passed down over generations, subject to interpretation. So you can find good & bad in both of them! (really, in anything written by mankind!)

To support my statement I will include quotes from the book you seem to follow. Keep in mind that I do not condemn you for following it, only for not offering anybody an equal opportunity to follow their chosen holy-book and pick out the good truths contained therein.

Originally posted in the Bible
"He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." -EXODUS 22:20

"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." -HOSEA 13:16

"Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;"
"(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth." -Deuteronomy 16:14-15

Basically: Convert, or else!

Now here's your homework:
¤ Find me 10 verses that describe violence/hatred/bigotry -
¤ Find me 10 verses that describe kindness/love/tolerance -
-each, in both the Bible and the Koran and post them here.

reply to post by FortAnthem

The christian God is a loving creator who sent his Son down to pay the price for man's sins. He commands His followers to convert all mankind through holy example and non-violence. The Moslem Allah is a capricious diety who demands submission from his followers and demands they convert the world by the sword.

Needless to say you missed the bit where jesusyahweh god is -

jealous,homicidal, genocidal , misogynous, homophobic, sadomasichistic etc

Nice guy eh ?

reply to post by Jim Scott

However, by comparison, the first century of Christianity was not marked by killing unbelievers, rather more marked by killing believers.

Until they got the POWA then they sure as hell made up for all the lost opportunities later.

reply to post by FortAnthem

you might take notice to the fact that Islam is working actively to bring the world under her dominion.

Not unlike Christianity then.

Monotheism is what is gnawing on the ankles of humanity. Like a sheepdog nipping sheep behinds, it is herding us into places we it wants us to go.

My God is the real God, therefore you must submit and leave your God.

Curse Akhenaton and his crazy idea.

Sure, Polytheism accounted for a lot of misery as well, no doubt. Those nasty felons burning bright in a Druid wickerman or the dismembered corn god leaves the taste of blood in my mouth too. Then there was all those bleeding hearts torn from the chests in good old Aztec rituals and a hundred thousand other atrocities perpetrated in the name of Polytheistic Gods.

Damn waste of people, if you ask me.

But, let's take some time to reflect on some excellent quotes:

Religious intolerance was inevitably born with the belief in one God.
Sigmund Freud Moses and Monotheism

From the time that Christianity was invested with the supreme power, the governors of the church have been no less diligently employed in displaying the cruelty, than in imitating the conduct, of their Pagan adversaries.
Edward Gibbon The Decline and Fall of the Roman empire

Begin now to cast aside the causes of that disunity which has existed among you, for by so doing, you will with one stroke be acting in the manner most pleasing to the Supreme God, and confer an extraordinary favor on me.
Constantine to the bishops at the Council of Nicaea

Julian tried, poor fellow, to bring back polytheism, but failed. Oh, well...

If everyone had a personal name for a God or a pantheon of Gods to which they, in silence and privacy, paid homage, perhaps there would not be those looking down their austere noses, tut-tutting their poor choice of Supreme Deities.

If everyone just looked inside their hearts, seeking out what they may find there, promoting that which is good and choosing to deny what is not, then perhaps we might become better neighbors to each other.

Human beings cannot endure emptiness and desolation; they will fill the vacuum by creating a new focus of meaning. The idols of fundamentalism are not good substitutes for God; if we are to create a vibrant new faith for the twenty-first century, we should, perhaps, ponder the history of God for some lessons and warnings.
Karen Armstrong A History of God

Right on, Karen. No more killing in the name of Goodness.

His proposal will never ever fly. There is no way ia pastor in Mega church Texas is going to convince folks to utter that name. All involved would be tar'd and feathered in a Walmart parking lot.

By some posts you'd think that Roman Catholic Bishops speaks from all Christians, sorry to be a party pooper but they don't (from my experience the Roman Catholic Church tends to tell porky fibbers).. if they where right and did speak for all Christianity then, my local Bishop would be speaking for all Christians when he says all Atheists are "sub human"

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
reply to post by one_enlightened_mind

 

.....


You do realize the bible was originally wrote in Arabic, right? And that God was more than likely referred to as Allah in the bible, right?

no, it was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.