Catholic Bishop; Let's call God Allah

Quite honestly, God is the unnameable and unfathomable, so,it is really a moot point to me. However, to my way of thinking, to call God "Allah" is nothing more than appeasement. Appeasement for what? What, you think just because we call God "Allah" religious extremists are gonna say, "You know, those people are alright"? It won't happen.

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
reply to post by Animal

 

Sorry I misunderstood you

I don't think God should be called allah because they are two seperates with two seperate sets of beliefs

and am shocked a bishop would suggest otherwize

I mostly agree with this. I think it would be confusing to either religion, Christianity of Islam, to suddenly change the title of their respective deities.

I think it would create internal conflict and upheaval that would have a degrading effect on the perspective religions, at least in the short term (speaking in terms of history here so for possibly hundreds of years).

As such I really do not believe it would be good for one or the other to make the change in terms of their own integrity.

I do understand however how a Bishop would come to such a hypothesis. They are after all both leaders and scholars within their religion who devote their lives to the study of their religion. I am not so sure this Bishop actually thought this was a good idea but saw the potential value in it.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Quite honestly, God is the unnameable and unfathomable, so,it is really a moot point to me. However, to my way of thinking, to call God "Allah" is nothing more than appeasement. Appeasement for what? What, you think just because we call God "Allah" religious extremists are gonna say, "You know, those people are alright"? It won't happen.

I do not see 'appeasement' in a bad light, in fact I would say the act of 'appeasing' ones enemies could even be viewed as a Christian value. So I really don't buy into this argument.

I also question exactly how much changing the title from God to Allah or Allah to God would help to alleviate the conflict between Islam and Christianity.

Personally I find such a solution to be overly simplistic and ignorant of the true depths and causes of the conflict, which run much deeper than religion.

Originally posted by Animal

Originally posted by Aeons

Oh. Instead I could say, Allah Brahma or Allah Ra.

No. Both of these gods are from polytheistic religions.

No? Ah. So

No, they are both the singular source of from which all other aspects of themselves derive. They are ever other "God" as any other are just parts of themselves.

So - Allah Brahma it is.

Good. I'm sure that the Muslims in Pakistan will LOVE that.

The "common" word is a misapplication of the meaning of the of that Word.

My translation of well known shared point made in each of the three religions J-C-M, illustrates that your point makes no sense.

Allah commands you to worship no other Allah but Allah. No? Right.

It makes no sense because the words are not the same.

That CULTURALLY people have usd their cultural conception of their religions common reference to a divine power to denote any reference to such an entity or force is PURE CULTURAL DOMINATION TECHNIQUE.

Allah is a proper name, a Proper Noun, referencing a personal name.

God, Jehovah, Elohim, Adonai are titles or labels.

How about all Muslims stop refering to Allah as Allah, and we insist that when they live in a non-Muslim nation to refer to God, or Jehoval as Allah is redunant and slightly offensive.

NO?? What? Ah. So when stated that way the cultural dominance aspect of it becomes clear does it?

Right.

[edit on 2009/12/15 by Aeons]

reply to post by Animal



I don't think Lord is a name, it's a title. Like Teacher, or Doctor, etc.

I don't believe anyone really knows what God's name is, or that He even has a name. I think a name is perhaps too ordinary, for God. He does not need a name, as He said, "I Am" -- He is many "things" like Creator, Father, Wonderful Couselor, Physician, Alpha and Omega, etc. etc. etc. What the heck would you call Him?

Originally posted by Aeons
No, they are both the singular source of from which all other aspects of themselves derive. They are ever other "God" as any other are just parts of themselves.

So - Allah Brahma it is.

Good. I'm sure that the Muslims in Pakistan will LOVE that.

[edit on 2009/12/15 by Aeons]

Brahma (Sanskrit: ब्रह्मा; IAST:Brahmā) is the Hindu god (deva) of creation and one of the Trimurti, the others being Vishnu and Shiva.

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Hinduism is a diverse system of thought with beliefs spanning monotheism, polytheism,[38] panentheism, pantheism, monism, and atheism, and its concept of God is complex and depends upon each particular tradition and philosophy. It is sometimes referred to as henotheistic (i.e., involving devotion to a single god while accepting the existence of others), but any such term is an overgeneralization.

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Ancient Egyptian religion encompasses the various religious beliefs and rituals practiced in ancient Egypt over more than 3,000 years, from the predynastic period until the adoption of Christianity in the early centuries AD. Initially these beliefs centered on the worship of multiple deities who represented various forces of nature, thought patterns and power, expressed by the means of complex and varied archetypes.

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Nice try.

You have been adding to your post since I posted this, the only other point I will make about your additions is this:

Allah is a proper name, a Proper Noun, referencing a personal name.

No, your wring as I have already CLEARLY shown repeatedly. I will do it one more time for you and then I am done wasting by breath, or the tips of my fingers

Allah” is the Arabic word for “God” and has been so long before the existence of Islam. The names “Allah” and “God” are generally interchangeable within the Muslim religion and in Middle Eastern cultures

Of course, the word “God” does not actually appear in the original Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible, accepted as Holy by both Christians and Muslims. “God” is an old English word which developed from an Indo-European word, meaning “that which is invoked,” which is also the ancestor of the German word Gott (meaning: God).

Allah is the primary Arabic word for God. It means 'The God.' There are some minor exceptions. For example, the Bible in some Muslim lands uses a word for God other than Allah (Farsi and Urdu are examples). But for more than five hundred years before Muhammad, the vast majority of Jews and Christians in Arabia called God by the name Allah. How, then, can we say that Allah is an invalid name for God? If it is, to whom have these Jews and Christians been praying?

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While the term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to "God"

The term Allāh is derived from a contraction of the Arabic definite article al- "the" and ʼilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the [sole] deity, God" (ho theos monos).[4] Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic.[3] The corresponding Aramaic form is אֱלָהָא ʼĔlāhā in Biblical Aramaic and ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ ʼAlâhâ or ʼĀlōho in Syriac.[10]

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Main Entry: Al·lah
Pronunciation: \ˈä-lə, ˈa-lə, ˈä-ˌlä, ä-ˈlä\
Function: noun
Etymology: Arabic allāh
Date: 1584

: god 1a —used in Islam

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Al·lah (l, äl)
n.
God, especially in Islam.

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Allah (Arabic: الله‎, Allāh, IPA: [ʔalˤːɑːh] ( listen)) is the standard Arabic word for God.

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Enjoy.

[edit on 15-12-2009 by Animal]

This is the problem my link junky.

You essentially do not understand Hinduism or Ancient Eygptian theology. Therefore you think that that link proves your point.

It merely shows that you haven't even a cursory understanding of Hinduism.

The other god names you just put up are part of a TRINITY. All aspects of each other.

Since the original point is about Catholism, one would hope that you are at least somewhat familiar with the concept of a trinity.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by thoughtsfull

 

So can you explain why the RC should teach such lies to children, or are you going to saying I am lying???

I believe you may well have misunderstood what I was implying.
When I said I found it tiresome and pot calling kettle black.

I was referring to xtians (of a variety of flavors) that are forever slagging off the RCC, they also spend a great deal of energy slagging off the mormons (my favorites leave them alone lol) the jehovas etc etc.

So, nope I wasn't having a go at you personally although I'm willing to should you agree with such things as religion being taught in schools etc

Thanks, I think I was being a bit touchy tho, which is unlike me :-)

I've no problem with any religion, which I guess come from growing up in the most godless city in the UK. So I have to go on the internet to discuss religion ;-)

On topic I have to admit tho that this particular comment appears absurd to me, he might as well have said that everyone in the UK should drive on the other side of the road to conform with the rest of the world for the sense this statement makes to me.

[edit on 15/12/09 by thoughtsfull]

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
I've no problem with any religion, which I guess come from growing up in the most godless city in the UK. So I have to go on the internet to discuss religion ;-)

Or perhaps you just come from a more spiritually evolved place where religious affiliation is of little significance,a place where religion is viewed as a barrier to spiritual growth.

Now THIS is some crazy stuff...

It's obvious the Bishop has gone quite senile in his vain attempt to "unite" these two religions, seriously com'n, changing the very foundation that believers have called their highpower for centuries?! He must be insane or very naive. I'm not part of the church but I'd have him excommunicated on the grounds of stupidity.

Now as far as God being called Allah...it could work. Logistically of course. The same way Yaweh or Jehova is named God. Jesus on the other hand is in the gray area because we get into the territory of conflicting beliefs, Muslims hold him to be a prophet and Jews do not believe him.

Kudos to Animal and a few of the other guys who can put this together in a rational debate.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by Animal

 

Calling God Allah would be seen as a sigh of weakness by the moslems. Theirs is a religion of violent conquest and they would pounce on any concessions made by christians, demanding more and more until they have the whole world under shira law.

You can call me racist if you like (I prefer the term religiously intolerant), but a study of history and the teachings of Islam show the truth of what I am saying.

Violent conquests eh? That same history and teachings can be said about the Roman crusades. All (or should I say most?) religions have an ugly violent past to them, it would be ignorant to limit ONE religion to that same violence when so many others have exhibited it before.

And as far as Muslims taking over the world? Enlighten me.

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
If I had any religion it'd be Buddhism, why? Because they don't start wars.

Christians, peaceful? HAH, Look at Hitler, was he so peaceful? Hmmmm.

You know there are some that say Buddha was a Prophet of the Qur'an. But his teachings where somewhat disturbed by such things as the backbreaking library of the Pāli Canon. And the Theravada vs the more popular hindu injected Mahayana Buddhist Tradition. Some have even located Buddha in the Qur'an Is the Maitreya the Mahdi, One in the same?

Also we can tell that the european dark ages was a Catholic Fabrication. Just look at the "Islamic contributions to Medieval Europe"

While the European Christians lived in darkness & filth, Unless you lived in the Royal Court that is! The muslims were living & inventing the most awesome scientific discoveries of their day.

Also We can see in the "Inventions in medieval Islam" why they would want to call God Allah.

Just look at their fabulous inventions that you're still marveling at today. Hair care, Lipstick, Cosmetic dentistry, tooth bleaching, Soap, Toothpaste, The Perfume industry, Deodorants for under-arm and roll-on, Restaurant and three-course meals oh Yum! & Academic degree-granting universities & Colleges also Public library and lending library *Talk about getting your learn on!*

Also Cancer therapy, pharmacotherapy, and Hindiba: Avicenna's The Canon of Medicine (1025) attempted the earliest known treatments for cancer. Yep they were doing Cancer therapy back in 1025!

All of this plus 1,000's more of awesome inventions all invented my Muslims of the Islamic Empire who prayed to Allah.

What have some of the christian invented other than wars and land grabs? Also we must be careful to not get into a mud battle of this muslim throwing mud & that christian throwing mud. Mud matches get us no where.

But truth will take us to the highest Mountains & allow us to look down upon the shining seas like never before.

Oh ya Algebra was a muslim invention also "Got math?"

Alhamdulillah

[edit on 18-12-2009 by Project2501]

I thought the Catholic God was Pope Ben? I don't know but I wish they'd
make up my mind. Maybe now they'll stop clinging to Christianity.
Given it a bad name. Take their idols and kick rocks to the curb.
Bunch a boy lovers who needs em. Certainly not God. Pagans.

All Cathilics should realise what there church is,drop it like a cheap suit
and truly follow Christ. Stop with the idols and lilith. Burn the vatican
cause that church is taking no one any where except to hell.

They are very simply a mockery of what Christ's teachings are. Cruel
and unusual, perverted and most of the time insane. They recieve power
from Satan. How else would they be so rich, with power over all nations.
It is so plain. Even if they had no followers, it would n't phase them at
all. They would still be just as rich and still have all the same power.
Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.
This is exactly what he meant.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by moocowman

It's very tiresome to hear people slagging off the RCC for twisting or hiding the ,when those calling the kettle black fail miserably to present evidence of their wild claims.

An Atheist can't find God for the same reason, a thief can't find a policeman.

I am sure that, if he were still alive, Malachi Martin would site this as an example of the ever increasing apostasy of the Roman clergy.

I dont see how we are not going to call God for Allah in the future. It has something about our Christan's birth rate. In about 25 years Europe will be totally dominated by Muslims.

The Muslim's believes have already surpassed Christianity in numbers.

www.liveleak.com...

Originally posted by spy66
I dont see how we are not going to call God for Allah in the future. It has something about our Christan's birth rate. In about 25 years Europe will be totally dominated by Muslims.

The Muslim's believes have already surpassed Christianity in numbers.

www.liveleak.com...

Although I think that this inst the casr yet, I am sure that it will come to pass in the not-to-distant future. Besides, many people in the West are comfortable to tag themselves with the 'Christian' without any deep rooted belief and without actually practising the faith in any way.

reply to post by NuclearPaul


Allah,has no son!I have heard this statement from many islamic clerics!
Yeshua Ha Mashiach,Jesus the Messiah.

Chapter 112 of the Qur'an is a sincerity and is 1/3rd of the Qur'an.

In the name of God, The Most Gracious, The Dispenser of Grace:
(1) SAY: "He is the One God:
(2) "God the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being.
(3) "He begets not, and neither is He begotten;
(4) "and there is nothing that could be compared with Him.

God is without beginning or end. I can understand why some people like the idea of apotheosis. If they are the children of God then they to must be Gods, Or so they'd like you to think. Other than the image, Where is the supreme holy at on the place in which we was created from? People still can't figure out what Messiah means? Messiah means anointed one while christ also means anointed one. And anointed one means unique simply put.

Just remember without access to the tree of life apotheosis is just a mystical dream

reply to post by moocowman


Not all christians are catholic.I am a christian and I will have nothing to
do with the catholic faith.The catholic faith has a corrupt doctrine that
goes against nearly everything the Bible tells you.
Remember,I am a fundamental christian.