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To Lie, or Not to Lie? The Santa Claus Dilema

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posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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I never said there was a Santa,
I let my kids figure it out for themselves.




posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 09:33 AM
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What are really talkin bout here?? Santa, really? Santa?? how can someone has a problem with their kids believing in Santa?? They only get to have a blissfull joy filled view of this world for so long before reality comes in and its destroyed. Its not harming these kids in any way and its somethign every kid should experience.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

It's not finding out that Santa wasn't real that bothered me. It was finding out that my parents, whom I trusted 100% had been telling me this totally fabricated story, KNOWING it wasn't true - that bothered me... And it wasn't a moment of disillusionment. It lasted for years afterward, making me unsure of everything they told me.

I don't blame my parents or hold it against them. I just know I wouldn't want that for my child. I would want my child to know that if they wanted the truth about anything in life, they could (and should) come to ME. When I wanted to know about sex, I didn't ask my parents because I knew they would probably lie, so I went elsewhere. I never completely trusted my parents again. I wouldn't want that for my own child.


Oh dear. Well what if you have say a 3 year old that comes up to you and asks what rape is. Or whats cancer. Will you tell the complete truth then?

And if you think about it, it wasnt just your parents feeding you this 'totally fabricated story' (debatable, Im SURE I heard reindeer on the roof one christmas eve). TV, other family members... shops where they have people dress up as santa, they're in on it too... so really you should trust no one.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by gYvMessanger
 


Again, it has nothing to do with values.

I love people apply such philosophical and advanced ideas onto children.

It is their job to be selfish. And it has nothing to do with values. The world only pertains to them and no one else. They don't even know they are a seperate being from you till 1.5.

At age 4 your still trying to teach them how to share. Much less have a deep philosophical view of the world.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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anyone who blames distrust on their parents because of a Santa Claus story has deeper issues that need to be addressed then their parents playing Santa.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Bluebelle
Well what if you have say a 3 year old that comes up to you and asks what rape is. Or whats cancer. Will you tell the complete truth then?


I will tell them the truth, as much as will satisfy them. Of course, I'm not going to go into all the details, but there is a way to give them the information they can handle. Lying isn't necessary.



And if you think about it, it wasnt just your parents feeding you this 'totally fabricated story'


Why is 'totally fabricated story' in quotes? Are you implying that the story is true?

I saw a lot of things in my life and I always went to my parents to find out the truth about it. I remember the first time some kid told me to eat a bowl of #. I went right to my mom and asked her what it meant. And she told me. That's how I think it should be. The parents should be the ONE place that you know you're going to get the truth.


Originally posted by nixie_nox
anyone who blames distrust on their parents because of a Santa Claus story has deeper issues that need to be addressed then their parents playing Santa.


As I said, I don't blame my parents. But I would do things differently. I don't know why having a difference of opinion on this has to result in you saying that people have issues. It's just a personal preference. No need to resort to personal attacks.

This isn't about the parents "playing Santa". :shk: It's about the kid trusting that the parents tell the truth 100% of the time and finding out that they have lied.



posted on Dec, 7 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I will tell them the truth, as much as will satisfy them. Of course, I'm not going to go into all the details, but there is a way to give them the information they can handle. Lying isn't necessary.

How do you know what amount of information will satisfy them? Kids can be very inquisitive. If the child carried on questioning you would just give in and tell them the gory details?



Why is 'totally fabricated story' in quotes? Are you implying that the story is true?


Its not for me to say whether someone's beliefs are real or not




I saw a lot of things in my life and I always went to my parents to find out the truth about it. I remember the first time some kid told me to eat a bowl of #. I went right to my mom and asked her what it meant. And she told me. That's how I think it should be. The parents should be the ONE place that you know you're going to get the truth.


Why should they? They arent perfect and I'd understand if it was a lie which kept you from doing something or anything which would ultimately have an impact on your life. But come on.. its santa! He only comes once a year! Leaving a mince pie out & a glass of milk for someone you know full well doesnt exist just doesnt have the same effect. Nor does knowing that your presents are in the attic instead of being put together by santa's elves.




As I said, I don't blame my parents. But I would do things differently. I don't know why having a difference of opinion on this has to result in you saying that people have issues. It's just a personal preference. No need to resort to personal attacks.

This isn't about the parents "playing Santa". :shk: It's about the kid trusting that the parents tell the truth 100% of the time and finding out that they have lied.


Not sure whether its on purpose or not, but you do come across as being quite emotional over the subject. Being tramatized by some harmless childhood belief is worrying seeing as santa is the least traumatizing thing in the world compared to the stuff you realise when you're an adult.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Bluebelle
How do you know what amount of information will satisfy them?


When they stop asking questions about it. When they seem to be satisfied.When they go on to another subject or task... I have done this MANY times, especially with my nephew, whom I helped raise. It's not rocket science.



If the child carried on questioning you would just give in and tell them the gory details?


No. But I wouldn't lie, either!
Making up a story just to get the kid off your back or because you can't come up with a gentle, thoughtful way of telling the truth is a very lazy way to parent, in my opinion.



I'd understand if it was a lie which kept you from doing something or anything which would ultimately have an impact on your life.


As I said, I don't care what you do with your children. This is MY choice and my opinion. I have a no tolerance policy for lying. In my opinion, it's cheap and it takes away from my character and chips away at my relationships. And a parent's relationship with their child is one of the most precious ones there is. I don't even lie to my dogs.



Not sure whether its on purpose or not, but you do come across as being quite emotional over the subject.


Not at all. That's your perception. I'm stating my opinion as factually and as honestly as I can. I am not at all emotional, traumatized or upset.



Being tramatized by some harmless childhood belief is worrying seeing as santa is the least traumatizing thing in the world compared to the stuff you realise when you're an adult.


You don't seem to comprehend what I've said several times now.
Please read carefully: The harm isn't in the childhood belief. The harm isn't in the belief in Santa. The harm comes with the realization that the people who a vulnerable child trusts for their very life have been telling them something (ANYTHING) as fact - that simply isn't true. It's not the Santa story itself. It could be that the child is adopted or that his sister isn't really his sister or that the dog didn't die, he went to live with Aunt Mary. The content of the lie doesn't matter. It's the existence of the lie that matters.

And realizing something as an adult is not at all the same as realizing it as a child.

Look, I don't expect you to change your mind, I'm just laying out my view. Not emotionally or traumatically. As I have said several times, do as you wish with your kids. It does seem that you are uncomfortable with my view and wish to convince me that I'm wrong. That's not going to happen. I don't expect you to agree with me, but nothing is going to make me think that lying to one's child is a good thing or even an acceptable thing to do, no matter what the lie is about.


[edit on 8-12-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


No I do comprehend what you're saying. But lying isnt black & white.. You dont seem to have a good experience of santa, but myself I remember it being a lot of fun and I loved thinking that reindeer were flying about on christmas eve.
And no Im not uncomfortable or feel any extreme need to prove you wrong, you're a random internet person.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Bluebelle
No I do comprehend what you're saying. But lying isnt black & white..


I believe it is black and white. People tell themselves that lying "for a good cause" is OK, but I don't live my life that way. It's against my belief system.



You dont seem to have a good experience of santa...


On the contrary, I had a very positive experience of Santa! As I've said many times now (and you're clearly not understanding) the experience of Santa isn't the problem. It was WONDERFUL. I loved it. It was finding out that my parents lied to me that is the problem... I give up.


Have a nice day.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


disagreeing does not equal not understanding. But yea you have a nice day too.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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Wow you guys are harsh. To each his own, I guess. The idea that doing the Santa thing with the little ones is harmful escapes me, but I sure wouldn't push it on anyone.

I grew up in a much different time - no seat belts, bicycle helmets? (ha!), bacon and eggs for breakfast, 3 tv channels, no "child proof" lids, not everyone got a trophy at the end of the season. I wonder how I survived?

I will say unequivocally it's wrong to raise your hands to your children. It leaves your groin unprotected.



posted on Dec, 8 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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For a long time I thought that I would most definitely be honest with my kids, give them the absolute truth, and steer them clear of any fairy tales as such.

But then I realised that at one point I believed such things as fairytales and I turned out alright


The idea that at one point in my life I believed that there was a tooth fairy (which has to be said, is probably the most unglamorous of all the fairies) that would take my tooth from under my pillow in the night and replace it with money is mind-blowingly brilliant.

So, yer, my kids would be taught all kinds of wonderful fairytales, it might cost me a whole lotta money to fee their habits, but hey, who am I to stifle their imagination.

Although, being a father is not on the top of my to do list just yet




posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by Jnewell33
 


I believe the Santa Clause ruse is a good one. If our children believe in this and one day find out or are told Santa is imaginary, what does it do to them. It teaches them to be skeptical of what others are telling them, it teaches children to think for themselves and use logic to answer questions and justify beliefs. Children realize if they thought about it, how can someone like Santa even exist and preform his job? Unfortunately, children learn skepticism this way and are not taught it (for some unknown reason). All in all Santa is a good thing for the development of skills children need to make it through life the right way; their way.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
As far as this business of "never lie to a child", give me a break.

"hey, what are you and Mom doing and why is your door locked"? You going to answer that truthfully?

"do we have any more of that candy?"


How about 1. "We just want some private time, so please play in your room."
2. "Yes, we do have more candy, but you've had enough for now; you can have some more tomorrow."

What happened to assertiveness? Do we have to lie to our children because it's more convenient than sticking to our guns?



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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As for the "Santa Lie": my husband never wanted us to tell our son about Santa because he himself had been devastated when he found out at the age of 5 that his parents had lied to him all those years.

I thought it wouldn't hurt our son to believe in Santa for a while, but I tried to juggle the matter in a way that I wouldn't have to actually lie to him. When he was little, I told him the Santa stories, but never "sold" them as absolute truth. On the other hand, I let him believe what he wanted to believe.

Where I absolutely draw the line, though, is actively lying to my son about anything. He knows that Mommy always tells the truth, and I'll be damned if I betray his trust in me.

So when he started last year (at the age of 5) to question the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny and finally Santa, we had a nice chat about it. When he asked if Santa were real, I asked him what he thought. He thought long and hard and said, "I think maybe Santa isn't real." So I said he was probably right and admitted that we were buying the presents for him. He seemed fine with that.

Interestingly, soon after that, he kind of "regressed" and started talking about Santa again for a while, like "Mom, can we put the reindeer food out so Santa can find our house tonight?" I just played along, because I figured he'd let completely go of Santa when he was ready for it. And he did, all by himself.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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Santa is great on so many levels. It helps kids have a great time with the imagination, and I see him as the personification of all that is good in the world at Xmas time.
Further, when...as children, they learn there is no real Santa; they learn to deal with reality and disappointment. For instance, they eventually will learn that not all people are nice... that even teachers, preachers, policemen, presidents , and their own parents are not perfect.
Finally, it creates an example that they hopefully will emulate, not going down chimneys, but generousity an love and faith in your fellow man.
Plus what wonderful memories and magic, I would hate to think I grew up and never got to experience the wonder of Xmas Eve or could laugh and relate to the Red Rider BBgun movie.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by Jnewell33
 


Got to thinking about making a thread on Santa since Christmas is only around the corner so to speak. Thankfully, you made this one and I don't have to ..

Thank you for making this thread... I'd like to share how I feel about this, and my experience as a child upon learning the truth of Santa.

I asked my mother and became VERY MAD when I heard the truth. Like how dare they, my parents LYING to me for all those years.... I felt sO betrayed then wondered what other lies I might have been fed.

I got over it quickly of course...but that doesn't make it morally right for them to do this. I feel just as strongly today at age 50+ as I did the day I learned the truth.

What parent wants to perpretrate a hoax on their own kid for years? A lie is a LIE...there is no excuse for it. I don't care what kind of good intentions people may have....IMO, spreading the magic is all fun and good but truth and honesty and teaching the real reason for the season is what it SHOULD be all about! I just ask that you guys who partake in this.... to think about it, PLEASE... Please do not lie to your children... Give them a strong and stable foundation instead... with the Truth...
Thanks for hearing me out.
Thanksgiving is soon... Glad we didn't have any Turkey Clauses lol...Grrr at ALL lies...



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 07:24 AM
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How can we confuse the children is the name of the game. Babies are born full of intelligence (and love) but the establishment don't want intelligence (or love) because that is not profitable. Instead they confuse the children and scare the children. The children will be adults one day full of confusion and fear and then they are sooooo easy to exploit.

Keep lying so many on here have said, it does no harm. Have you not seen the newspapers or the news???

Truth is the most magical thing there is.

edit on 7-11-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 07:40 AM
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Of course you should tell your children about santa being real - play along with traditions. It builds imagination and lets them stay part of the traditions of the holiday. It's only a little white lie, it wont hurt them (total sarcasm inserted).

It prepares them for the next level. We were attacked by terrorist. His name was Osama Bin Laden. President Obama order him killed. We captured and disposed of the body in the ocean. Hey, it was only a little white lie. It builds imagination. It's only a few little white lies, play along people - it keeps you part of the herd.




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