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To Lie, or Not to Lie? The Santa Claus Dilema

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posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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This is a simple question to answerer. Never lye to your children since you expect them to be truthful with you, you should lead by example. Tell the children the real story of Santa, and how by helping others we carry on the tradition he started so long ago.

Here is just a small part of the whole story:
Thus Nicholas became not only the generous giver but the special patron saint of maidenhood and was so known and celebrated throughout the Middle Ages. Danté speaks in three short lines, as if he assumed that everybody already knew the story, of the generosity of Nicholas to maidens, ‘to lead their youth to honour’. The Italian painters made much of this story. A fine pictorial representation of it is the Metropolitan Art Museum in New York City. It is one of those dramatic paintings in which the old artists told a really moving tale long before the days of the camera and the moving picture. Inside the house you see the three distressed daughters and the still more dejected and ragged father. Outside is Nicholas climbing up at the door in the act of throwing the purse through a little window.
The rest can be found here: www.thehollandring.com...




posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by Jnewell33
 


The magic of believing is what has inspired the greatest minds of all time. We believed in Santa Clause and most of us are reasonably well adjusted today. The greatest feats accomplished by humanity came as a result of people BELIEVING that something was possible. Childhood is harsh enough in todays world without stripping little children of the magic of Christmas and all of its aspects including Santa. We survived the delusion and so will our grandchildren. Santa is a myth that should live in our hearts forever. There is enough Nothingness in life as it is. I vote to keep Santa alive in our hearts forever.



posted on Dec, 4 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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I fail to see the value in the "lesson" of father christmas.

In my view its better for the child to know the parents love them enough to go out and get all those presents for them.

They would have to be blind not to notice the rapant commercialism which surrounds the holiday starting with heavy televised ad campaigns in november. Especially if christmas requires your family to save up or stretches the budget outside of the normal comfort zone, what good does the idea the gifts come from a stranger do ?

If you want to teach them to believe in something, make it something of substance and value.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by gYvMessanger]



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 12:59 AM
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No one lied to me about Santa, nor did I lie to my son. I believed and was allowed to believe, as was my son. And there was nothing traumatic about finding out...smart kids start to suspect as they get older...they notice things (like how Santa has the exact same watch and wedding ring as dad!) and start to figure it out, and the day they ask you point blank, just say...well that's it's a magical thing and that now that they know, they're in the club that helps create the magic for the littler ones who still don't know...and that way it lives on.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 01:50 AM
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we live in a world of lies. this whole damned thing is a lie. we lie to ourselves and the people around us every day in the smallest of ways, most of which goes totally unacknowledged consciously.

i am very tired of it all. but the worst is lying to children. that is nearly unbearable.

it is a very slippery slope, this whole business of lies. the time has never been better to let "Santa" go.

lets do it.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 02:41 AM
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Honestly, some people here are so overly dramatic.

Allowing a belief in Santa does not in any way harm a child. When they find out the truth, they will not hold it against you.

For children, Santa Claus is part of what makes the holiday so magical and wonderful. Some of my best memories of Christmas were setting out some milk and cookies for Santa, trying to stay awake to hear his arrival, and sneaking downstairs before the parents awoke to see what he left and if he ate anything. The magic was gone once I knew the truth, but I made sure that the younger kids could go on believing so that they could feel the same excitement of the season.

For crying out loud, let children can be children and enjoy the magic of the season.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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Of course you play around with the Santa deal. It only lasts for about 7-8 years anyway. It's fun and creates some level of mystery out of the season.

As far as this business of "never lie to a child", give me a break.

"hey, what are you and Mom doing and why is your door locked"? You going to answer that truthfully?

"do we have any more of that candy?"

Honesty is always the best policy, but lets not take things too seriously

On the materialistic component of the thread, there are a few ways to deal with this. Santa brings only one gift for the kids, the rest come from "people". My kids have to get workable toys (complete, in good shape, no missing parts) and donate them prior to Christmas. Depending on what they get, we do another round of donating the week after Christmas. We also adopt a family and each of my kids has to buy something for the kids in that family out of their own allowance. The last bit is one of the things they actually like the most about Christmas.

Lots of ways to give gifts without getting into a huge materialistic trap



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 03:10 AM
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Once you have established that Santa Claus is real, ... you have to go along with it because you don't want them to see you as liar's and destroyers of innocence and youth.

The way around this, ... to pay a Homeless guy dressed as santa to break into your house and wield around a machate, once you shoot and kill him in self defense, ... you can explain to little Johnny that Santa won't be coming around anymore.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by gYvMessanger
 


You must not have children because children are selfish creatures, and will suck you dry and they don't care about the sacrifices you make. It is only until you have your own that you understand what parents go through. That is why parenting is the most selfless thing you can do. You give all to someone who is a complete taker.

Only young children believe in Santa and don't undestand social circumstances until they are older.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


Well said Dolphin. I was going to add that, you end up lying a bit as a parent.

We teach our children to be expert liars. If we catch them lying, we punish them for it. So guess what, they try not to get caught next time.

As far as learnign generosity, this year I am starting the tradition of having my son choose one of his toys to give to a needy family.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
"hey, what are you and Mom doing and why is your door locked"? You going to answer that truthfully?


Yes.
"We're having private time, loving each other."



"do we have any more of that candy?"


"Yes, but you've had enough. More later."

I do not believe in lying to children. About anything. There's a difference between lying and make believe, as long as the kid KNOWS it's make-believe. But if he doesn't, then it's a lie.

IF I had kids, they'd know about Santa Claus, but they would know that he's not real. He's just a character in a story. We don't celebrate Christmas, but if we had kids, we probably would - but not in the conventional way. So, Santa wouldn't be an issue.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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There is no such thing as a "white lie". People who lie only call it "white" to make themselves feel better.

I have three problems with "Santa Claus", besides the lying:

1. It is obviously a corporate marketing technique designed to emotionally blackmail parents into spending money they might not be able to afford. "If you love your kids, you will spend your money". Don't fall for it.

2. Read up on "Sinterklaas". Looks identical as Santa, but children who are naughty are told that Sinterklaas will put them in his sack and take them back to Spain with him. Sounds like a pedophile to me.

3. If you believe in interdimensional beings, you might want to think about how a lot of Dark entities need your permission to enter your home. By engaging in the rituals of hanging up stockings, leaving food for "reindeer" etc, you are giving permission for Satan, sorry, Santa, to enter your home. You might want to look into the history of Santa, and see who he really is.

If you really think that "Santa" is a good thing, I won't burst your bubble by telling you that evil always presents itself as good. And if you need to lie to your children to make them "happy", something is seriously wrong.


Originally posted by gYvMessanger
Especially if christmas requires your family to save up or stretches the budget outside of the normal comfort zone, what good does the idea the gifts come from a stranger do ?


It takes away the excuse of "we can't afford it". So it's great for big corporations.

[edit on 5/12/09 by NuclearPaul]



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by xxcalbier
so billy and susy have there immangery friends only they can see.
we as adults know it isent real they as children know it isent real.


Maybe Billy and Susy can see higher frequencies than you. Like they can hear higher frequencies than you. So can your cat or dog.

We as adults are stupid compared to children.

[edit on 5/12/09 by NuclearPaul]



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by polychronopolis
Tell your kids the truth...they will appreciate it and thank you for it in the future. Unless you'd rather prefer that they find out the truth from someone else and lose their respect for you because you lied to them.


That's exactly what happened to me.

I remember the day I discovered that Mum didn't always tell the truth. She used to get mad when I questioned everything she told me after that...



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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Ah, don't deceive the little kids, that's just awful. How do you think we first learned to lie? Yeah, our parents taught us when we were too little to know better too.

Don't play jokes on your kids innocence and naivety. Tell them the truth, they will respect that. Tell them that Santa is a corporate retail invention to sell cheap junk from china in order to create a huge national debt that they will be expected to pay back one day. After that, take the whole family out back and show them how to slaughter christmas dinner too.

Hey, it's best they learn to always tell the truth or this generational lying and deception thang will never stop. Of course not all kids are so easily fooled, but that's just naughty to take advantage of your own kids ignorance and play this kind of scam on them. You don't want your kids growing up thinking they are living in some kind of fantasy world, or having to think of you as a liar liar, now do ya? After my parents tried to pull that santa joke on me, I never trusted another word that came from their mouths ever again. Don't teach your kids about lying. Don't show them what liars you are either.




posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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Ya know all this about not being right to lie to kids about Santa.. let me ask you something.. Can you find me one American kid that has been so hurt by this that it's ruined their life?

Nope. you cannot.

In fact, most of us would willingly say we were richer for the experience and mystery of waiting for Santa and trying to 'catch' him all those years.

It's fun and gives the kids something to occupy their time while Mommy and Daddy hide the presents.

I seriously believe that most of these people who are so against letting their kids believe in Santa has never had children or they are not native Americans, so it's just so strange to them.

Many other cultures have myths like Santa that are much worse for the kids than Santa is.

[edit on 5-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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Don't you remember how magical Christmas was when you believed in Santa? I support the illusion, after all its not a bad thing to open up the child's mind to things that seem implausible.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


I dont have kids, but I would suggest that not all children are like that, only the ones who are raised with modern western values.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 12:08 PM
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I never believed in Santa despite my Grandmother labeling her gifts as "From: Santa." According to my family I was born a bitter, cynical old man who lashed out whenever anyone tried to help me or do something for me and never believed anything any of them told me. I made for a fun kid.

If my kid wants to believe I wont shoot down the fantasy and if he doesnt I'm not going to go out of my way to manufacture it.



posted on Dec, 5 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Ya know all this about not being right to lie to kids about Santa.. let me ask you something.. Can you find me one American kid that has been so hurt by this that it's ruined their life?


If I were a parent, I wouldn't use that for the criteria on how I treat and teach my kids...

"Hmmm... Is this going to ruin my child's life? No? Then it's absolutely OK."

I remember finding out that my parents had lied about Santa. Did it ruin my life? No. It just taught me that my parents lie and were hypocrites. Because they punished me if I lied...



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