Texas executes low-IQ convicted killer

Originally posted by Chance321
reply to post by Kryties
The point is NOT that he did something wrong, or what it was. The point is that people are still being executed out of EMOTIONALLY BASED JUSTICE, which is wrong on every conceivable level.

That is your opinion. The parents of the 11 yeard old may differ a bit with you. If it were my kid I would want this guy executed out of pure vengence, anger and hatred for his kind.

He did provoke an emotional response from the parents of the victim and the community and you want to remove emotion from the justice system? What world are you living in? What a joke...

What an utter disgrace.

Unfortunately, there are people in this world that have sympathy for those murdering, raping, abducting, types... but no sympathy for the victim or their families.

thats the disgraceful part

[edit on 4-12-2009 by Snarf]

reply to post by northof8


Says the person who described the accused as a "retard" thereby displaying their inability to accept others different to them and thereby discluding themselves from any further serious argument on the subject.

Have a nice day

[edit on 4/12/2009 by Kryties]

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by northof8

 

I would think that by using the term "retard" you are referring to all mentally impaired individuals. As such your views and opinions on the subject are hereby dismissed for lack of compassion for anyone who is different than you.

I am referring to the retard that killed an 11 year old. Yes he is much different from me but maybe he is just like you? Do you abuse and kill children? Do you feel compassion for a retard that rapes and kills an 11 year old? I'll bet you do...

If you have the capacity to rape and kill an 11 year old you are not that retarded in my opinion. He deserved much worse that he got. To associate him with a segment of mentally ill in our society to gain sympathy in this thread is an injustice to the the mentally ill in this country that do deserve our compassion.

But you people go ahead and try and gain sympathy for your fellow child abusers and child killers if it makes you sleep better at night.

Originally posted by Snarf

What an utter disgrace.

Unfortunately, there are people in this world that have sympathy for those murdering, raping, abducting, types... but no sympathy for the victim or their families.

thats the disgraceful part

No, the disgraceful part is where I am accused of not having empathy for the victim or their family when, in fact, I have said no such thing, nor have I indicated thus.

Therefore you are still attempting to make me look bad by MAKING THINGS UP.



[edit on 4/12/2009 by Kryties]

It amazes me that the outrage over the execution of a sick twisted child rapist and killer would be such a horror to some people here. The only reason I can see for them opposing such an execution is that they themselves may be child abusers and or killers themselves.

What is the real motive for defending such a person that has been executed? If they were indeed guilty of raping and killing an 11 year old I don't see how that could be defended like it is being defended here unless the people defending it are guilty in some way of doing the same things?

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Snarf

What an utter disgrace.

Unfortunately, there are people in this world that have sympathy for those murdering, raping, abducting, types... but no sympathy for the victim or their families.

thats the disgraceful part

No, the disgraceful part is where I am accused of not having empathy for the victim or their family when, in fact, I have said no such thing, nor have I indicated thus.

Therefore you are still attempting to make me look bad by MAKING THINGS UP.

[edit on 4/12/2009 by Kryties]

Well you don't care about the 11 year old child or you wouldn't be defending this sick twisted child killer. He should have been killed no matter his mental status. He had the metal awareness to know what he did was wrong. He raped and murdered an 11 year old and you could care less... We all know that...

I really think you may be a child abuser yourself. There is no other explanation for your illogical defense of this sick twisted devil dog..

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Conclusion

 

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

Financial Facts About the Death Penalty

California
Report of the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice

“The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California’s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.”

Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.

The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.

The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.

The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.

Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice, June 30, 2008).
Maryland
New Study Reveals Maryland Pays $37 Million for One Execution

A new study released by the Urban Institute on March 6, 2008 forecasted that the lifetime expenses of capitally-prosecuted cases since 1978 will cost Maryland taxpayers $186 million. That translates into at least $37.2 million for each of the state’s five executions since the state reenacted the death penalty. The study estimates that the average cost to Maryland taxpayers for reaching a single death sentence is $3 million - $1.9 million more than the cost of a non-death penalty case. (This includes investigation, trial, appeals, and incarceration costs.) The study examined 162 capital cases that were prosecuted between 1978 and 1999 and found that those cases will cost $186 million more than what those cases would have cost had the death penalty not existed as a punishment. At every phase of a case, according to the study, capital murder cases cost more than non-capital murder cases.

Of the 162 capital cases, there werer 106 cases in which a death sentence was sought but not handed down in Maryland. Those cases cost the state an additional $71 million compared to the cost non-death penalty cases. Those costs were incurred simply to seek the death penalty where the ultimate outcome was a life or long-term prison sentence.

(“Death penalty costs Md. more than life term,” by Jennifer McMenamin, The Baltimore Sun, March 6, 2008). Read the entire study here.
Federal Costs

The average cost of defending a trial in a federal death case is $620,932, about 8 times that of a federal murder case in which the death penalty is not sought. A study found that those defendants whose representation was the least expensive, and thus who received the least amount of attorney and expert time, had an increased probability of receiving a death sentence. Defendants with less than $320,000 in terms of representation costs (the bottom 1/3 of federal capital trials) had a 44% chance of receiving a death sentence at trial. On the other hand, those defendants whose representation costs were higher than $320,000 (the remaining 2/3 of federal capital trials) had only a 19% chance of being sentenced to death. Thus, the study concluded that defendants with low representation costs were more than twice as likely to receive a death sentence. The complete report can be found here.

(Office of Defender Services of the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts, "Update on Cost, Quality, and Availability of Defense Representation in Federal Death Penalty Cases," June 2008; prepared by Jon Gould and Lisa Greenman).
Washington
Report to Washington State Bar Association regarding cost

At the trial level, death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 in additional costs to the prosecution and defense over the cost of trying the same case as an aggravated murder without the death penalty and costs of $47,000 to $70,000 for court personnel. On direct appeal, the cost of appellate defense averages $100,000 more in death penalty cases, than in non-death penalty murder cases. Personal restraint petitions filed in death penalty cases on average cost an additional $137,000 in public defense costs.
(FINAL REPORT OF THE DEATH PENALTY SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC DEFENSE, Washington State Bar Association, December 2006).
New Jersey
Death Penalty has Cost New Jersey Taxpayers $253 Million

A New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that the state's death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. The study examined the costs of death penalty cases to prosecutor offices, public defender offices, courts, and correctional facilities. The report's authors said that the cost estimate is "very conservative" because other significant costs uniquely associated with the death penalty were not available. "From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the last 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one," the report concluded. Since 1982, there have been 197 capital trials in New Jersey and 60 death sentences, of which 50 were reversed. There have been no executions, and 10 men are housed on the state's death row. Michael Murphy, former Morris County prosecutor, remarked: "If you were to ask me how $11 million a year could best protect the people of New Jersey, I would tell you by giving the law enforcement community more resources. I'm not interested in hypotheticals or abstractions, I want the tools for law enforcement to do their job, and $11 million can buy a lot of tools." (See Newsday, Nov. 21, 2005; also Press Release, New Jerseyans for Alternatives to the Death Penalty, Nov. 21, 2005). Read the Executive Summary. Read the full report. Read the NJADP Press Release.

Thats just a fraction of the information on that page, found with a simple Google search, all of which supports the fact that executing someone costs more than incarceration. Please feel free to go to the link and read further.

That is where common sense should come into play. A single bullet cost's very little. Push them off of a extreme height is still cheaper. As for the expense that a trial cost, I would think how could a life in prison trial cost any less than a death penalty trial. Both secure the same thing. Keeping the offender away from the public forever. Why does a prison year cost more for a death row inmate rather than a life time inmate. Should be the same, using common sense. Just as much as it would cost anyone. Looking at it this way it would cost less. So its just the system of law trying to make money off of it. It could be done a lot cheaper.

Originally posted by northof8


I really think you may be a child abuser yourself. There is no other explanation for your illogical defense of this sick twisted devil dog..

I can do nothing more than laugh at how ridiculous and ignorant your comment is!

Thanks for the laugh mate, I needed a good pressure release

If it were my kid, I would want to remove this animal's eyes with a spoon before slashing him to death.

His IQ can't have been that bad if he could abduct a kid- glad he is gone, adios dirt.


To those numpties waffling about "rednecks", that is just meaningless soundbite- one can support execution and appreciate Chopin, Shakespeare and fine wine- now cease your pretentious class based nonsense

Sorry these were your words, I didn't put them there. (Sprung) And here was my reply to it. Sorry, I'm still in Redneck mode. So this bag of waste kills an innocent little girl and to you it's just a "Bad Thing" but somehow in your mind it's even worse that this waste was executed? Wow.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Kryties

 

What an utter disgrace.

So, you're upset that they executed a man who abducted, raped, and murdered an 11 year old girl, then was later declared "stupid" because of an IQ test???

You know what I am sick of? Those that repeatedly try to play on emotions by continually reminding me of what the person did wrong. Let me get something straight: I BLOODY WELL KNOW WHAT HE DID WRONG AND I AGREE THAT IT WAS A BAD THING. Is that clear enough for you, or must I hire a plane and write it in the sky? It's not like I haven't said it a million times in this thread or anything........

The point is NOT that he did something wrong, or what it was. The point is that people are still being executed out of EMOTIONALLY BASED JUSTICE, which is wrong on every conceivable level.

[edit on 4-12-2009 by Chance321]

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by northof8


I really think you may be a child abuser yourself. There is no other explanation for your illogical defense of this sick twisted devil dog..

I can do nothing more than laugh at how ridiculous and ignorant your comment is!

Thanks for the laugh mate, I needed a good pressure release

Well, as long as you get the pressure release here as opposed to some 11 year old innocent child like the one that was raped and murdered.

It is beyond me why anyone would defend such actions but you go right ahead and make light of such evil and laugh while you do it.

Karma has a way of opening doors for people like you.

Not sure how one can remove "emotion" from justice- for example, stealing drink from a shop receives a lighter sentence than raping and murdering a kid because one is considered more serious, and that rationale for classifying it as more serious is because of our emotions as functioning empathy capable human beings


Kudos to texas

Originally posted by gazerstar
reply to post by Kryties

 

Forgive me if this has already been asked, but if the victim had been your daughter would you still feel the same way about the perpetrator? Just curious.

The same curiosity can be applied to the question: Would you feel the same if the feeble-minded defendant were your son, or your brother?


The laws regarding IQ were put in place for more than an obstacle to revenge justice.

Our laws are the product of many cases, precedents, and a great deal of thought. There are legal principles which exist because there is a need to address the possibility of wrongful prosecution, or framing the dim-witted for expedient 'justice' and the satisfaction for a reckoning over a crime such as this.

A defendant is supposed to have the right to confront the wtinesses against him or her, to participate in his or her own defense. Under the circumstances of a diminished or impared mind, such participation is a clear threat to true justice. Only another officer of the court can seek this kind of consideration in a case, and the opposition will seek to challenge it.

Some of you love justice, some love "the reckoning", others just want something done. Politics makes that 'something' as expedient as possible. Unfortunately, expedience and justice, seem ill-suited as bedfellows.

I'm not saying that this person was innocent of the deed. But IF he were, how would you feel now that he is dead?

[edit on 4-12-2009 by Maxmars]

Originally posted by blueorder
If it were my kid, I would want to remove this animal's eyes with a spoon before slashing him to death.

In which case you should rightfully be arrested, charged with murder and placed in a jail cell for the rest of your natural life, just like the executed man should have been.

And before you mention taxes for keeping prisoners in jail, be sure to read the whole thread, as this has already been covered

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by blueorder
If it were my kid, I would want to remove this animal's eyes with a spoon before slashing him to death.

In which case you should rightfully be arrested, charged with murder and placed in a jail cell for the rest of your natural life, just like the executed man should have been.

And before you mention taxes for keeping prisoners in jail, be sure to read the whole thread, as this has already been covered

Maybe in your world. In a real mans world he would be considered a hereo for killing an evil twisted dog like the one you are defending.

The executed dog should have been tortured and taking his eyes out with a spoon to start would be just fine with me as well.

You on the other hand would like to take the chance of some liberal in the future releasing this scum back into society. That is the real motive of the anti-execution crowd. To free those that would prey on the rest of us because you feed on other peoples misery. You enjoy watching parents suffer things no parent should suffer. Pure evil...

reply to post by Maxmars

I'm not saying that this person was innocent of the deed. But IF he were, how would you feel now that he is dead?

If he is innocent & did not commit the crime, then yes, a huge tragedy has occurred.

But, with respect, i don't think that this is the argument at hand. Should he get a "get out of jail free" card simply because his IQ is a little low?

And further more - should IQ tests be admissible in court - given the incredible ease in fudging their results?

Originally posted by Snarf
...

But, with respect, i don't think that this is the argument at hand. Should he get a "get out of jail free" card simply because his IQ is a little low?

And further more - should IQ tests be admissible in court - given the incredible ease in fudging their results?

The judges procedural laws are in place to provide the safeguards we need to ensure that doesn't happen.

As for the admissability of IQ test, you would have to argue with the psychiatric and psychologic institutions that have made it legitimate. They seem to have convinced the legal community of it's applicability, but frankly, I can't say that I'm entirely sure the metric is as foolproof as it has been made to appear.

reply to post by northof8


More ridiculous comments! Just give up mate, seriously! You are attempting to make something out of nothing by MAKING THINGS UP just because you disagree with me! Is my opinion that important to you that you would sink so low as to call me names and describe me as "evil" simply because I have an opposing opinion to you?

You are the dictionary definition of what is wrong with the death penalty.

[edit on 4/12/2009 by Kryties]

Do NOT discuss each other, stay on the topic at hand

((Don't make me stop this car.......))