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The Time of Gentiles Is Over

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posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 05:32 PM
keep in mind, until the last of the gentiles come in,
israel will be hardened, they are both curse and blessing.

The times of the gentiles is over when choice is in the past
of humanity.

Israel will be brought together then, everything before is a shadow
of things to come.

Gods law: i am one, love one.

Take care ! you're great

posted on Jan, 13 2010 @ 06:36 PM
reply to post by pasttheclouds

HEB 12:25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." 27 The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken--that is, created things--so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

HEB 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29 for our "God is a consuming fire."

In many ways I'm merely groping in the dark. The shaking is exposing patent error. What remains then is true. Process of elimination.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 01:52 AM
yes, that process is called repenting

it is building logic, logic is build by seeing what is not true first.

It allows us to believe new things, that come closer to tthe truth,
and builds the plant of this life, the paradox of God.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 01:54 PM
reply to post by pasttheclouds

yes, that process is called repenting

it is building logic, logic is build by seeing what is not true first.

It allows us to believe new things, that come closer to tthe truth,
and builds the plant of this life, the paradox of God.
1580s, "second person of the Christian Trinity," from Gk. logos "word, speech, discourse," also "reason," from PIE base *leg- "to collect" (with derivatives meaning "to speak," on notion of "to pick out words;" see lecture); used by Neo-Platonists in various metaphysical and theological senses and picked up by N.T. writers. Other Eng. formations from logos include logolatry "worship of words, unreasonable regard for words or verbal truth" (1810 in Coleridge); logomachy "fighting about words" (1560s); logomania (1870); logophobia (1923).

mid-14c., "branch of philosophy that treats of forms of thinking," from O.Fr. logique, from L. (ars) logica, from Gk. logike (techne) "reasoning (art)," from fem. of logikos "pertaining to speaking or reasoning," from logos "reason, idea, word" (see logos). Meaning "logical argumentation" is from c.1600.

Your use of 'logic' and 'repentance' opens new realms. It's formulaic to say, 'repent and believe'. The repentance comes first. And belief without logic is illusion. I've heard it said, 'you must first be agnostic.'

If logos is the creative quickening force of God, indeed God Himself, then logic in us is the seed/fertilized egg which forms the son in us; spirit of adoption. 'Messiah' had a long standing technical meaning for Israelites referring to anointed kings from Davidic line, such was/is Jesus. Gentiles have no use for that sense of the word, therefore for us (I don't know if you're an Israelite or not ) messiah means anointed by the Father through the Word(logos) with the anointing He makes available to us, the adoption.

If you have noticed, every time I post, whether I mention Paul or not, some one always pops up demanding I reject Paul, it's as if I carried Paul around with me in much the way Paul carried Christ around with him. So once again I will attempt to defend Paul. I have to feel my way a bit. Stand by.

[edit on 14-1-2010 by pthena]

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 03:32 PM
reply to post by pthena

The good news is not that He died, but that He lives.

Not by virtue of being son of David, the conception of Jesus is not a new God- the- Son comes into being, but that God as Son in the man Jesus
draws man to himself so that he himself is man.

You can, I suppose, argue from the infancy narratives that Jesus was from the line of David, but His Sonship does not rest on having no human
father, His divinity would not be affected if He had been the product of a
human marriage.

The teaching of Divine Sonship is based on the Abba-Son dialogue, unique to Jesus, the relationship of Word and love revealed.

Correct, this is the now but not yet of God's reign. The Kingdom of God is
within us.

And what would you replace these 'phrases' with? The danger in replacing the biblical terminology is that you will wind up with something like
the 'telephone game' in which the original message is lost to future
generations. Scripture must be interpreted anew for each generation,
while remaining faithful to the intent of the original author.
We must understand ancient cultures and the impact faith had on the original audiences. When people formulate their beliefs into certain
creeds and doctrine it is with the knowledge of their time only.
We must remember that the Gospels were composed by second generation evangelists, form oral traditions, all in post resurrection faith. Problem is some attempt to make the Bible speak to today in a way that
would be foriegn to the original intent of the authors, as in a literalist, fundamentalist interpretation, which is no more than intellectual

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 06:47 PM
reply to post by rileyw

And what would you replace these 'phrases' with? The danger in replacing the biblical terminology is that you will wind up with something like
the 'telephone game' in which the original message is lost to future
generations. Scripture must be interpreted anew for each generation,
while remaining faithful to the intent of the original author.
We must understand ancient cultures and the impact faith had on the original audiences. When people formulate their beliefs into certain
creeds and doctrine it is with the knowledge of their time only.
We must remember that the Gospels were composed by second generation evangelists, form oral traditions, all in post resurrection faith. Problem is some attempt to make the Bible speak to today in a way that
would be foriegn to the original intent of the authors, as in a literalist, fundamentalist interpretation, which is no more than intellectual

I address some of these issues in
Paul VS Judaizers or Pthena to Neo-Yahwists

[edit on 14-1-2010 by pthena]

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 09:29 PM
reply to post by rileyw

Not by virtue of being son of David, the conception of Jesus is not a new God- the- Son comes into being, but that God as Son in the man Jesus
draws man to himself so that he himself is man.

You can, I suppose, argue from the infancy narratives that Jesus was from the line of David, but His Sonship does not rest on having no human
father, His divinity would not be affected if He had been the product of a
human marriage.

There does seem to be evidence that Jesus is more from priestly family than Davidic. Zechariah 6 seems to indicate a secret Davidic Branch from the priest family of Joshua. Also the cousin of Jesus, John the Baptist is definitely from priestly clan.

As for virgin birth stories, I've never found any relevance. If God wanted to do that, nothing could stop it, but it never made any difference to me either way. The pronouncement at baptism always seemed the important adoption as son.

posted on Jan, 14 2010 @ 11:20 PM

Originally posted by pthena
Acts 2 Peter quoted a prophecy from Joel concerning the pouring out of the Spirit in the last days.

AC 2:17 " `In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

Pthena - have you been having any of the above? And if the answer is yes - is what you are receiving meant for just you and your loved ones or for everyone?

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:58 AM
actually, the bible can not be understood by most people,
if they are not opened to the alternative wordusages...

most people think the bible is unlogic, it is pure logic,
hidden in old words...logos is the living words, and that is progressive in this world, because it builds a total beliefsystem, which is the paradox of god allowing himself choice. Where God is God he will nto choose but has free will.

repenting = seeing
forgiving = understanding, it releases judgement

water - fire = seeing - understanding
cloud - rain = confusion (seeing); growth (understanding)

fire, understanding is truth, it comes down, it is god in you,
god is another word for truth

when jesus talked for one, he talked for truth, which is god,
which has its body in everyone, when you set free, forgive god as a total, and paid the price of one penny, which is equal to all, because at salvation you change from some-one into One, your body really is all. Jesus spoke from that promised land. The land of sweetness as honey, where milk grows kids. After the saltwaters, you reach the sweetness of life, but only there. Waters mean spirits, moving spirits, it is evolution and growth.

so the gospel is actually, forgive life, forgive god, forgive yourself

you do that by freeing yourself, by 'accusing' first, and releasing this
into forgiveness as opposite to ignorance.

thats why jesus said i bring also hate.

from left to right, from accuser to defender,
only possible by seeing (accusing) first, but to go quickly
and by open mind allow god to come down, understanding.

Paul talked the gospel in newer words compared to the others,
paul has some of the most paradoxal wisdoms, that really are
the truth about god. He explained how God controls everything,
that in God there is 'not Apollo, and that every deed that happens is
connected to the allowance of One Truth, for us to find the good in it,
and build the paradox of God, as Inversion and Choice, together.

The bible is made dual, because this life is dual, when you allow yourself to see duality you
can find the oneness behind it, religions problem is to think in absolutes on the level of a human, god is absolute but fullfills a paradox, the 8 form in mind,
made by growth, which goes from negative to positive, turns black into white.

Israel is a thunder hidden in a cloud still, because the truth of it is difficult,
a thunder means understanding, it comes after lightening, which is seeing in the dark. Israel symbolised many things, one of these things is the world, is israel is the world, who are the priests, spread over the 2 kingdoms. Logic demands stars as destined to rule the times. Those carry both blessings and curses. They suffer more hard and life for Truth, but they will make the hardest mistakes and give the world choice.
Israel was scattered over the world, even before they entered the physical promised land that was a shadow of the things to come.
Was Nebuchadnesar Israel ? most would say no. The (original writings of the gospel and logic talk about those with a destiny. Elijah speaks of a remnant in the land of israel. Was israel israel at that time ? Or were the sheeps allready scattered ?
What is destiny ? And how does logic sees it ?

Logic makes a perfect world as a perfect bubble where the lie is prince,
but it is fixed in time to be the most functional, where are those pillars to make beliefsystems fixed in time ?

The son of man are the prophets. They will speak from the promised land,
but first there were 2 spies to gather the rest coming back from that land.

Daniel said the prince, Michael would know another God then his forefathers, he doesnt talk always about the antichrist which is a people,
but he talks about the son which are the sons, that would see a true god, not one blinded by history as a cruel God. Our truth is one of love and logic. Because Truth is absolute and will not hurt itself without reason, that is the cross, the burden he takes, he takes it in every person, not just in one. Because the cross is one, the value also is one, although spread over timeperiods, making paradise functional.

Israel played the world, on another level played the believers and on another level played israel itself but symbolised in the land of israel of biblical times. Ephraim would be laid down to waste, when Judah would rule, but Judah, the southern kingdom is all believers at the end of times.
This world didnt give all the time and opportunity to become an absolute yet, before that there is work, changing negatives into positives. It means seeing and loving, and helping and giving. But before the day there is the night, before the positive there is the negative, and clockwise we as humans evolve, from lost to found, the u-turn of believing. Self - responisiblity and avoid to harden in accusing, is to become our goal, and make it our motor to make positive and forgive.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 03:12 PM
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
It's not clear actually. I had a girlfriend once. She'd hear a song on the radio and say, "Yeah, so in so should listen to this song!" I found it a bit odd because from my perspective she should have listened to the song for her own self. I think that a common problem for people.

What I have is for me, but I feel like sharing. If we share together we might find our ways together. The verse says 'all people' it doesn't say 'pthena'. Something I have to remind myself of occasionally.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 05:35 PM
reply to post by pthena

The purpose of the genealogies in both Mt and Lk are not historical,
but to fulfill Scripture, and according to Scripture the Messiah must be
from the line of David.

"On that day, a shoot shall sprout from the stump of
Jessie, and from his roots a bud whall blossom.
The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him." (Is 11: 1ff)

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 07:13 PM
reply to post by pasttheclouds

water - fire = seeing - understanding
I am wondering how you came up with this, fire having to do with understanding.
The reason I am curious is because someone else told me the same thing and claims to derive it from the Hebrew word for fire. I don't see it, personally but that might be because I am missing something.

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 07:28 PM
reply to post by rileyw

the purpose goes further then that.

Remember jesus as a person is not the branch, jesus as one with god, and god is all, is the branch. Jesus spoke for the son of man, and the son of man is the branch.

Religion is quick to condemn, but do they read their law yet ?
I am one with the father, the father is all.
Who is the branch ? yes levelled it was maybe jesus IN salvation AFTER gllorification, but then he was not jesus but ONE.

The prophesy is made about the son of man, who is the annointed one(s),
who are the prophets,

jesse as father of david, which is the king, which is the son of man,
as symbolised in jesus, are the prophets, they come forth from the father of the SON, which is the prophets side one with god, allowing the mother to grow. the messiah comes forth from God Himself. Because the mother sides of the prophets are destined, and is the created figure acting out that destiny, woman = created, they are created in the teachings by the spirit directly in the mother, which means created and god as one as destined. Destined means no choice, people who have choice can choose the father, as opposite to the spirit.

Jesus was a reflection of the son of man, also literal, which means he was the messiah before the messiah was exsisting in our timebelief, but time is a beliefsystem too, and god is allready one in his many faces before it happened in our time. Thats the Joshua's stone symbol.

The literal lineage is important to the mother's side;
why the mother, because the mother is that what you are, and that picks the father, salvation is by the jew/judean, it means again in different levels, as symbolised in judaism, where jewness comes from the mother down...that the woman gives life to the child.

God does not really allow me to write clear yet...
if the mystery would be known, why would the saints sing Moses song,
that nobody else knows, people expect to read gods mystery in university language, written out with patience, when where the mystery is opened, there is no time, and all functional..
everybody has his cross, and part fo that cross for the 'church' which is not religion, of the last days is to bring the world the big structure of the gospel of love, which will be further opened in the paradise times or millenium.

woman means created,
father means your god, the spirit
different fathers are possible
as the real father can take many wifes
son means the combination of them

the whole family is in you, not outside you.
the old laws were a shadow of the things to come.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 07:34 PM
reply to post by jmdewey60

the way to understand the bible is avoiding miscontradictions,
in that way you can find out truth. It means first you have to see
all the contradictions, they will make your logic full, and when logic is full the bible colours logic in.

Logic is another word for truth, not something different, because logic stands for truth. The only thing logic is truth actually.

Truth is something that comes down, and takes you over, truth is another word for god, so god comes down as truth, he will make you see.

Jesus told us something like, "you hypocrites, you know how to read the signs of the heavens and the weather, but you dont know how to read the signs of these times" i say something like, because i am not made to memorise verses, but to understand them.

The signs of creation are symbols to teach us how god works and contain his plans. A cloud brings rain, confusion brings understanding
There is water which symbolises REPENTING, which means seeing,
there is fire to change you into Truth, which actually means forgiving, meaning understanding.

You have 2 ways in the U-turn of the lost sheep, one going up,one going down, the rythm of live... you fight (see), you release (understand).
water and fire.

water flows, spirits (beliefs) flow, they are changing in this reality all the time, you (which is the total of your beliefsystems, which is the WOMAN at every moment, changing by the FATHER at every mother, together as SON) ERASES the lies, it kills your old woman being, that's why there was told, you can not see god and live, because god kills your lies, TRUTH kills the lies.

your responsibility to connect the random dots, and see the way clear.

I wish i would have the peace allready to breath, so i could take the time to point it out clear. But my way is logic, not details. And when the lie falls from heaven, people will get their call, and see something eclipsed, when gods law always was clear, i am one, love me as one.
Religion as theoretical and organised expects the false where it will not be.
They will have their lie to allow them to take revelation literal, when it is happening at the same time symbolical and spiritual the other way around.

In truth, everything is allready good. We live the inversion, but that inversion is there for the glory of truth, so truth can include instead of excluding what it is not, or it is not absolute. It avoids worse and a divided truth, which can not exsist outside an absolute.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 07:57 PM
dont take my words as how they sound, im not native english,
and functionally means every word we write is a word for and from all.

Truth is logic, it means god is logic,
logic is found by seeing what is not true first, unveiling,
it is called repentance.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 09:12 PM
reply to post by pasttheclouds
Abraham was told to cut up animals and lay them out and separate the pieces. He went into a trance where God spoke to him. Then, in Genesis 15:17,
"When the sun had gone down and it was dark, a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces."
I am assuming that Abraham saw this while he was still in a trance, so it may have not happened other than in his mind.
This trance that Abraham was in is described by the same word in Hebrew to describe the trance that Adam was in before he ended up with a wife. Looking at the Hebrew word normally translated as rib in this particular context, it would really mean that God took half of Adam. Of course no one can accept that, so rib is used. The same word to describe what happened to Adam is used to describe the altar of incense. Though it was square, rings were attached to its two sides, for poles to carry it. Maybe it becomes apparent that it is a side, once the poles are in place.
Abraham cut a heifer, a goat, and a ram, each in two, I would imagine down the center, making halves. Then apparently God, who is described in these terms of a fire and furnace with smoke in Psalms, goes between the halves. The narrative goes on to say that in that day, God made a covenant with Abraham. This is a very strange set of circumstances and makes me wonder if they were somehow mystically married.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by jmdewey60]

posted on Jan, 15 2010 @ 11:28 PM
reply to post by jmdewey60
That does sound like a wedding ceremony. I always thought of that as a curse for oath breaker ceremony. Wedding actually does sound closer.

And with man split as male and female (in the image of god).

Moses seemed to walk around with the inner dialogue going all the time, as if he was awake but in the deep trance at the same time. Jesus seems also to have functioned that way. Other prophets had their trance and then spoke or wrote later.

I said somewhere else that I never saw Jesus on a throne, but as if he was still walking around with another man. There was the assumption that he was the Son of Man to receive the kingdom from the Ancient of Days. But it's the saints who receive it. This is heresy, but Jesus just may be one of the saints. As far as I know, James the Just may be the one with the throne. We certainly can't tell from the canonical scriptures.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by pthena]

posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 12:19 AM
reply to post by pasttheclouds

Word/spirit = father
Created Man (soul) = woman
seed = son in womb

JN 12:23 Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

HEB 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.

posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 07:17 AM
reply to post by pthena

jesus before glorification was a person as a human,
but of the destined kind, which means stars, which means
the israel remnant.

At glorification he received the kingdom, but his kingdom is all,
so if he allowed someone to suffer for nothing, in other words,
when he would steal, he wouldnt be removing himself out of
this world he allowed people to take their own crosses, instead of
removing their crosses.

Salvation is the seal of the prophet, and the only prophet is god,
thats why mohammed is interpretated as being the last prophet,
he actually received the seal at his going up, which means salvation
as a is the seal of the prophet and that seal is from god, not from a person.

People will argue, yes but mohammed wasn't perfect, or jesus wasn't perfect, well, as humans they were growing, that is what humans HAVE to do...but some grow slowly, others grow the maximum, and prophets will grow the maximum and pay their penny in their human lifetime. Which brings them salvation and makes their lives like lessons in full.

Jesus became angry in the temple, when in jerusalem, but still the gloriciation was only partly...this to allow him to take an extra cross.
When the sun is still here it will be in human form, reacting as human, although it is one in every sense. But in this world all is functional, so a manifestation of god in this world, will take the cross on his shoulders not to be free and leave this world, but to bring the best function into this world.

the son of man is more then jesus, it is god, which is the messiah through his prophets. Jesus as glorified was not jesus, but God. And that is the promised land, where all growing humans will end up, together in the kingdom.

So everything in salvation talks from outside time, it means jesus could speak for the son of man without being all those people before they are themselves in it. The Son of man is realising itself in levels. But salvation means those levels talk to you before you are in it, even when you are.

If you understand this, you will understand the sentences about John,
and the sentences about the beast who is not but was.
"The beast that you saw was, and is not"

"This is the one [of whom] they said,
'The one who comes after me
And yet is ahead of me,
because he arrived first.' "

[edit on 16-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 07:40 AM
reply to post by jmdewey60

aramaic translation:
7. And He said to him, "I am the God* who sent you out of Ur of the Chaldees, so as to give you this to inherit."
8. And Abram said, "Lord God, by what sign will I know that I have inherited it?"
9. And He told him, "Take for yourself a virgin calf, a virgin ram, a virgin goat, a pigeon and a dove."
10. And he took all of these and he divided them equally, and he set each member opposite its companion, but the birds he did not divide.
11. And the bird descended on the bodies and Abram waved it away.
12. The sun set in the West and a calm fell upon Abram and, behold, a feeling of submission and a great darkness came upon him.

the details of the biblestories are for the real church, the prophets to unwind. But if you know the logic it becomes simple. But that's why time is short too, because the structure will be known to humankind. Everybody has his function, and mine is not related fully to the bible, but to logos.

The sunsetting always points to God, the son of man as glorified is the son,
the son of man as prophets as son, is the moon.

Times follow the sun.

Birds symbolise many things, but the most important is they fly, they follow the seisons, they transfer to other places, they oversee. An eagle-vulture (egyptian) eats dead carcass, it eats lies, it is the prince Michael, who is the eagle, which is similar to lion, because the lions are the warriors who also will eat you when you bring them something they see as a danger. Lions before they digested something will attack it. Thats why israel is both curse and blessing. There is an offering that confirms covenants, which offer did jesus fullfill and will be fullfilled again.

"Then he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters had subsided from the face of the ground; but the dove found no place to set her foot, and she returned to him to the ark, for the waters were still on the face of the whole earth. So he put forth his hand and took her and brought her into the ark with him. He waited another seven days, and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; and the dove came back to him in the evening, and lo, in her mouth a freshly plucked Olive Leaf; so Noah knew that the waters had subsided from the earth. Then he waited another seven days, and sent forth the dove; and she did not return to him any more."
The dove and the spies that came back tell the same story, the waters means the sprits were still in full flow, in growth, its only when the waters lower that the earth can be seen, that the destiny can be seen, that's why god sends out again.
A dove symbolises the spirit of God. It means no division.
You understand how logic fills that in ?

Yes, the woman is taken out of the man, in which way is not really important, still it is... revelation describes how the earth will be without sea, but first we need to go from the land into the sea to leave the sea. The sea are spirits, moving with flow, growth.

god made out of himself the woman, created, to be free he needed the inversion, so when adam would have avoided listening to eve, god would chose not be free and live under choice. The intention to suffer had to be made by one who was one with god, so adam was placed down. Through them israel is connected to god, and could mix with created. It is the hybrid form from mythology.

I am only good in logic, dont expect me to explain outside the allowance i received.
Every biblestory has a strong symbology, a burnt offering is comparable to the fire consuming, which is the process of glorification. Listen to logic so you can explain the world the details.

There is a logic in adam...when elijah fullfills logic, someone had to step in and choose to erase logic to build it, or god wouldn't have chosen to do so. But still god didn't chose this world actively, he chooses without choice for it. That's why choice is ignorance, and doing your best erases choice.

It's a full double pyramid, solomons seal from one point to many, from many to one point. its how logic is built, and how the bible functions. First it widens up (god seems to be cruel and god) then all comes back to it's true side (god becomes love and one) is again a u-turn, the paradox in full. Religions chose to live sometimes in the wrong timeperiod, every system is made for a a seison and all new knowledge became old...growth is progressive, but to be progressive it will go wrong first sometimes. What keeps the absolute before it is absolute starts to ignore. Jesus as the loving man, is our goal, before that we grow. People think jesus ony suffered that cross, but to be who he was, he will have suffered all his life.
Mohammed was a prophet in his time, he did things we in this time do not agree with always, but his teachings are transformed in oral scriptures as judaism does with Moses and out of sight is the real meaning of the symbols used in their guidebooks. To make those guidelines for later timeperiods they acted out things literal, but they grew out of their literal creations and thought processes much faster the the relgions that followed them to make the literal law. Before jesus teached and fullfilled oneness, he learned.

Can i make myself understandable ?

In the end, knowing stops, i hide logic in what i still assume to be real,
that jesus, or mohammed or even you exsists i don't have proof for, i only have logic. It's where the serpent stops to annoy, and where knwoing is automatic. God doesnt know by wisdom, he has free will, his knowing is his will, the lie of this creation is that gods will had a logic to follow, when 'logic that dominated will' sets god free and falls from heaven as lie. It sounds silly, but it is not, the arc is that logic, carried on the back of the priests, which means by cross, the arc was moved form place to place, logic is growing from timeperiod to timeperiod, made by the priests who suffer for it.
Different places of worship were used, and God is worhispped in different knowlege in different timeperiods, int he bible we also see the game beteen those places of worship, just as history showed us the struggle between religions, in the end all of them prepared humankind for the same logic.

Israel is more then Judaism and a state. It symbolises him who fighted with god, and won. IT is him who admitted to be a lie, so he could change himself. Salvation is choice by ERASING choice, in the same way god never chose for the cruelty of thiw world, because it was always there with him. It makes God not guilty, and makes us not guilty after we admitted guilt. It means doing your best, which is optimal, which this world has to be.

if a bibleverses says gods truth is to be explained clearly,
people will use it to accuse, wrong like in everything.
The bible is dual made, difficult to understand when
you search an absolute in a two way book.
To explain a paradox you will sound a crazy man.
IS the explainer contradicting, or is the interpretation ?
And what is the priority of each? Is mine, explaining all verses ?
Or is it allowing it to be explained by opening logic.
A dual mind thinking it is one, is he who talks against himself,
called ignorance, and will understand not what is to be understand. What has a one mind will seem to speak dual, but see the oneness behind.
Because here everything has 2 sides, and still there is only one side.

Trance is a division.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

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