ATS, were you a UFO Skeptic before, but not now, Why?

reply to post by mckyle


I agree with you myckle, i started off as a believer of sorts and would argue in support of a theory and now have switched my way of thinking. Im still willing to be wrong but these hardline believers have ruined UFOlogy completely and i grow more and more convinced that there is nothing to it.

Originally posted by pazcat
reply to post by mckyle

 

I agree with you myckle, i started off as a believer of sorts and would argue in support of a theory and now have switched my way of thinking. Im still willing to be wrong but these hardline believers have ruined UFOlogy completely and i grow more and more convinced that there is nothing to it.

If this isn't skepticism I dont know what is. In this day and age no one is this way anymore. I don't buy this as even legit.

Are you kidding? I got lost a long time ago, the point is there is so much crap and i mean utter rubbish that people hold on to as proof i just dont care anymore. What exactly a believer believes in is different from the next one and the one after, surely only one can be correct if any. Its like religion. Or its the everything goes in the same basket and all is correct no matter what the story, which is worse imo. I tell you seeing all the plane, sattelite, bat, flying Gamera balloon, star, helicopter or space critter videos being defended to the death is not encouraging. Plus the whole disclosure thiong too, best to give up on that.
Just what are we to believe is actually happening? In one sentence if you could.
Not just UFO's either, it goes for most things. This site has probably made me more of a cynic than a skeptic.

I think the thing that made me sit up and take notice was the sheer number of credible reports -particularly when it comes to the USO subject.



Accounts,reports and testimony from Naval officers, ship's captains, crewmen, coastguards, submariners, fishermen and sonar operators:
www.abovetopsecret.com...




Accounts,reports and testimony from aircraft pilots and radar operators:
www.abovetopsecret.com...




Accounts,reports and testimony from Police officers:
www.abovetopsecret.com...




Accounts,reports and testimony from Military Security personnel around Nuclear/Atomic installations:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by pazcat
This site has probably made me more of a cynic than a skeptic.

There are plenty of cases out there which signify the UFO subject should be treated seriously.

If you can't separate the wheat from the chaff then its nobodys fault but your own.

My beliefs used to be as straight edge as they come... I used to believe in nothing - one haunted apartment and a sighting of a UFO over London that stayed there for 40 mins (too long for me to convince myself I didn't really see it) and now I keep a very open mind.

I find it amazing that people can still be skeptical on both accounts. Sure, there are fakes but there are way too many credible witnesses. What really convinced me has been the number of times over the years that when I tell people I research paranormal books for fun, they confide their own stories that in some cases, they didn't have the guts to tell anyone else.

For me, it just meant getting to a certain age where I realized nearly all the information I had been fed by society was simply one viewpoint, not truth. After seeing my own evidence of the paranormal, I started reading everything I could get my hands on. ET's are here, and they've been here longer than humanity and maybe even created it through migration or genetic engineering. Sounds far out, but then to me so do many of the ideas that are widely accepted such as the idea that pyramids were built by slaves and Atlantis never existed.

Originally posted by pazcat
reply to post by mckyle

 

I agree with you myckle, i started off as a believer of sorts and would argue in support of a theory and now have switched my way of thinking. Im still willing to be wrong but these hardline believers have ruined UFOlogy completely and i grow more and more convinced that there is nothing to it.

But I think if you're really seeking the truth you can't let your viewpoint be affected by others.

For a long time I didn't want to believe in God because I find religion so distasteful but then I realized all those people were irrelevant and the truth is really about me, and what I think and what relationships I choose to form with the evidence that is presented to me.

For every kook that hunts UFO's on the weekend or thinks that souls are collected on the moon, there are plenty of good stories from people who weren't looking for encounters. I think you can't discount those people on account of attention seeking fruitloops.

Originally posted by defcon5
Actually I am MORE of a skeptic since I joined ATS.
I see too many hoaxes, frauds, and misidentifications on here on a regular basis.

I agree with this sentiment.

Before I came to ATS, I used to think that there MUST be something alien behind the UFO phenomena because so many people were reporting strange events. However, once I came to ATS and read some of these reports in detail, I could see that hardly any of them could stand up to simple scrutiny, and the rest were unverifiable.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
However, once I came to ATS and read some of these reports in detail, I could see that hardly any of them could stand up to simple scrutiny, and the rest were unverifiable.

I'd tend to disagree there -especialy when you look at the statements dealing with the true nature of unexplained percentages:

"The opposite conclusion could have been drawn from The Condon Report's content, namely, that a phenomenon with such a high ratio of unexplained cases (about 30 percent) should arouse sufficient scientific curiosity to continue its study."
"From a scientific and engineering standpoint, it is unacceptable to simply ignore substantial numbers of unexplained observations... the only promising approach is a continuing moderate-level effort with emphasis on improved data collection by objective means... involving available remote sensing capabilities and certain software changes."
Ronald D Story - American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics UFO Subcommittee -New York: Doubleday, 1980




"Probably the most striking discrepancy in the Condon report, however, was between its contents and conclusions. Condon had concluded that science could gain nothing from studying UFOs. Yet, the report ended up with a near 30 percent unexplained rate, and a core of cases that came within a hair's breadth of being conclusive evidence for the reality of alien technology – cases which, under the most rigorous analysis, appeared to be the result of extraordinary craft in the skies."
Richard Dolan PHD




"There are unidentified flying objects. That is, there are a hard core of cases - perhaps 20 to 30 percent in different studies - for which there is no explanation... We can only imagine what purpose lies behind the activities of these quiet, harmlessly cruising objects that time and again approach the earth. The most likely explanation, it seems to me, is that they are simply watching what we are up to." (Redbook, vol. 143)
Dr. Margaret Mead, world-renowned Anthropologist

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by mckyle
reply to post by Komodo

 

My reply may not be well received, as my change of mind went the other way!

After seeing the illiogical, ignorant, rants of the zealots of the UFO religion, I recanted.

I realised what irrational loons so many of them are.

I respect a handful, and enjoy solid friendships with some, but most UFO-truthers, are just obnoxius, and uninformed. And it's not just the newer members. At least one senior member - who has been away, thankfully - has a lot to do with the ignorance and abrasive attitude of some of the newer members.

Mine went the other way as well, but it had little to do with any forum or the lunatic fringe... it was more a result of learning the details of the more widely publicized cases.

I used to be open to the idea of Rods, Alien abduction, STS-75 giant UFO fleets, Roswell Aliens, S-4 reverse engineering of Alien technology, Alien intervention in the biological and technological evolution of humans etc.... but in the past 15 years so much real information has become available to the public that much of what I've mentioned has been sufficiently debunked [I hate that word] in my mind. I'm still open to the possibility of Alien visitation, but I'd have to see compelling evidence supporting it. Belief in the paranormal is fun, I'm the first to admit... but in the information age it's becoming increasingly difficult to ignore the facts, though a great many manage quite well.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by draknoir2]

Prior to coming here, I was more of a skeptic but curious about the possibility of life 'out there' due to the sheer enormity of space; and the odds of being the only sentient species within the universe just seemed so shamefully arrogant to me. After all, it was once widely believed that the sun revolved around the earth, and we were wrong about that too. Upon coming here, and finding out about ancient cave drawings, petroglyphs, and figurines of what look to be ancient astronauts as well as ancient ruins like Puma Punku and all the giant perfectly round stones found all over the earth that our ancestors allegedly never had the technology to fashion themselves, not to mention all the ancient texts that all share similar descriptions of sky beings, it pretty much made a believer out of me. Now, I no longer just think that they are 'out there', but that they may be right here on earth with us as well. Just because we can't see them doesn't mean that they aren't here. Animals in the wild are masters at camoflauge and keeping hidden from humans and other predators. I'm sure that any other type of being (especially if they are more advanced than us) would be more than able to do the same. I'm to the point now where I'm thinking that the beings in ancient lore such as angels, fairies, trolls, aliens, etc. may be all the same type of entities just called by whatever name is popular or accepted at the time. The accounts of people who've claimed to have seen or come in contact with them all share similar stories. I think that's more than a coincidence.

I also do not think that humans are as advanced as we think we are. I think that our 'know-it-all' mindset and sense of specialness holds us back from our full potential. It takes an open mind to entertain other possibilities and use what could possibly be learned from those experiences to evolve to the next level. I think that as a species, we will remain stagnant until imagination becomes important again. After all, even Jesus said to become like little children. I've always thought that there was a hidden message in that phrase for those with 'ears to hear' and eyes to 'see'. I can't shake the feeling that there's an esoteric meaning to 'seeing'. Most people only think that we see with our eyes open, but if that were the case then how do we see when our eyes are closed while dreaming?

In a nutshell, I guess I base most of my belief on archaeology and folklore similarities. There are too many hoaxers, attention-seekers, and profiteers to believe every personal account even though I do believe that at least some of those are real based on the fact that most of the stories are so similar across the globe even among isolated communities of people who have little contact with what most consider the mainstream. Sorry for the ramble, and thanks for this thread, OP. It has been very interesting. I hope it continues to grow.

Oh! I forgot to mention that the accounts of former astronauts, pilots, and deathbed confessions helped too.LOL





[edit on 2-12-2009 by gazerstar]

Originally posted by DarkCyrus

Ah, sounds like you want things to go a certain way and this person is not going with the program? I'm not sure what eles I can say to the joker here lol.
[edit on 2-12-2009 by DarkCyrus]

DarkCyrus: thanks for the reply

With all due respect, no - I don't want things to go my way!

I do want individuals to at least consider what I say, and not lambast me, because I turn around say - well, "Jaime Maussan is in it for the money, and was likely involved in the Mexico City UFO film".

The above was a paraphrase of the quote that I was attacked for left right and centre. Apparently, I was a debunker, and I didn't even know it.

I believe in the ET Hypothesis and I am quite sure we are being visited on a regular basis by other ET species/races. However, as draknoir2 mentioned, truly solid evidence needs to be produced before I consider something to be fact! The problem with Ufology, is that many people don't critically analyse the material presented in a given case. They just accept the report as fact!

In a way, I was waiting for your type of comment. But, I hope you at least listen to what I have to say, when we meet on the board


[edit on 2-12-2009 by mckyle]

Originally posted by pazcat
reply to post by mckyle

 

I agree with you myckle, i started off as a believer of sorts and would argue in support of a theory and now have switched my way of thinking. Im still willing to be wrong but these hardline believers have ruined UFOlogy completely and i grow more and more convinced that there is nothing to it.

Pazcat, thanks for the reply mate

I really understand where you're coming from. Three years ago, if I saw a UFO thread on ATS, I'd get pretty excited about it. I'd drop everything, and read the whole thread. Now, I usually look at the headline, and go "pft!"

The only time I get excited now, is when I see a post by yourself, Internos, or a couple of the other guys, who apply critical analysis to the material.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by mckyle]

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by pazcat
This site has probably made me more of a cynic than a skeptic.

There are plenty of cases out there which signify the UFO subject should be treated seriously.

If you can't separate the wheat from the chaff then its nobodys fault but your own.

Firstly i dont think there are all that many really, the main problem with credible cases would be they dont offer much in the way of proof. Having said that though it is not that i dont believe, because i do up to a point.

You are right with your wheat/chaff analogy aswell, just because i may feel video x is fake for reasons y, it does not mean the next report will automatically be treated the same way.

Skeptics can be believers too. I think thats a crucial part of trying to actually work out what is happening instead of jumping in head first.
I am certain though i have not worked that out yet and also certain that the vast population of ATS has not either. I dont think anyone has hit the proverbial nail on the head just yet.

thx again to all who have replied specifically to the criteria I was looking for.. which I'll repost below again since I see a few members have taken upon themselves to input their opinions and go the way to ATS..which is easy to do... i know, I've been there as well.


For example in italics:

~At ANY time in your life, were you either a hardline, on the fence, light- hearted UFO skeptic but something definitely changed your mind; or your way of thinking. Yes, I was a hardline skeptic but after seeing TV shows, documentaries, ect .. I started to take a very hard look into what was being presented..

~Are you hardline believer to which there will NEVER be any going back to the point where you're willing to risk your reputation to stand on your beliefs/views if questioned and will go to your grave with the same answer?Yes, now I am a hardline believer because out of the blue sorta speak, I had a first encounter in fall of 90..

~What PERSONAL experience specifically made you become so dogmatic in your belief in UFO's? close encounter? personal video ?? (please post your own personal comments, story/testimony, vids/pics)As stated above, I had an UFO encounter in the fall of 1990 which I took a video cam to view what I saw because i know no one would believe me..

reply to post by 52Telecaster


thx for posting exactally what I was looking for! Star for ya. I half agree with you about the slaves building the pyramids; I believe the Jewish slaves started them.. but I certain don't believe they finished them.. here's my only thought on this in reguards to your quote below..

Sounds far out, but then to me so do many of the ideas that are widely accepted such as the idea that pyramids were built by slaves and Atlantis never existed

From pure memory of scripture, but, I've read it so many times, I realized about 3 months ago that even though Pharoh increased the work load, it doesn't state that the Jews actually finished the job because of the increase of work to gather up the straw themselves and still keep the quota of bricks.

This means, that with all the bricks they were laying, we're have to assume that NONE were used to gather the staw untill they were told; there wasn't enough slave power to do both and keep the quota.

A short time after that, after the plague of the first born, at night, Pharaoh told Moses and the Israelites to leave.

Here's the kicker. with all of the slaves having left, and very shortly after, the ENIRE Egyptian army went after them, and they were alnilated in the sea.

how did the pyramids ever get finished? there wasn't any army left to amass more slaves... they simply didn't have an army to do so. IMO since He took six hundred of the best chariots, along with all the other chariots of Egypt, with officers over all of them.

this leaves only the back up army, leaving Egypt in a very weak state, No major fighting force and no war harded vets to lead them. Leaving perhaps the Son to take over. From a stategic view, you can't protect what you have and maintain your culture unless you secure what is left, and gradually build it back up again.

To me, it doesn't add up.

Who did they find to build the pyramids and stuctures after the Jews left? How much of it was uncompleted?? Half ? 3/4 ? which ones were already built? Jews were in Egypt for 430 years.

I am one of those few unusual skeptics.

First thing I would like to note is that there is a difference between a skeptic and a dire hard fanatic who opposes the idea altogether. Most people who call themselves skeptics fall into that latter category. Don't be fooled by them, they like to misuse words for their own advantage in trying to make themselves sound sensible and "normal" like an average Joe, while in their behavior they will demonstrate a very fanatical and almost psychotic obsession. At where I live, I happen to have seen one UFO believer almost got brutalized by one of these "people," because she didn't want to play along with his nonsense games. Of course that could be an issue of just plain ole' sexism of woman beating that we often do see, but it is just wrong to be that aggressive towards someone even if you don't believe in anything he or she says.

I think one issue that might make people easily turn this way and could explain their attitudes and behavior is some sort of inherited genetic disorder or chromosomal abnormality such as possessing two Y chromosomes, which in turn can make someone extremely aggressive, thickheaded, and paranoid. We should all take sometime to ask ourselves why we behave the way that we do. Take sometime to analyze and view ourselves and stop being so acceptable and prone hostility and opposing such rationalizations.

Now with that out of the way, I should go back to discussing myself. I do believe in extraterrestrials visiting this planet. I have seen REAL unidentifiable flying objects and I have seen REAL extraterrestrials. Of course, I have no means to substantiate it, but that shouldn't impede on my right to speak openly about it. I do have a right to express myself and speak openly about what I know. I don't think there is much of a right behind belittling someone or probing information from someone on the contrary. Just in case anyone attempts such.

However, I am skeptical of other people's sightings and not of my own. I believe the reptilian stuff isn't real and I don't think our government is working alongside any alien entities. Rather I believe they are opposing each other.

As for when it comes to ATS, I genuinely believe there is a mix crowd of actual witnesses, actual skeptics such as myself who are also witnesses, sensible skeptics who aren't fanatical, fanatical skeptics whom are only here to troll and pick fights, people who make up stuff just to get attention, and lastly people whom might be curious and don't fall in any of the other categories.

Being on ATS has made me more aware of those people who call themselves just humble skeptics, but have a true intention in trying to break down the arguments and beliefs of those who genuinely have seen and believe in extraterrestrials. Being on here hasn't made me more of a believer or skeptic than I have been, it has made me more aware of human behavior and how disgusting it can sometimes be.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

UFOs aren't a matter of belief, they are a matter of fact.

The question is, what are they? I used to believe that some were probably ET controlled, but after I started doing more research I found I wasn't getting the whole story about some UFO cases from the books I read, they were biased.

I agree, ET craft are a reality, and no amount of denial will make them go away. I too read all the books, and yes, most to push an agenda, and make a lot of things up. The question is, who are they? Where are they from?

I have had the ET experience several times, I have been physically taken from my bed and to a place I took as a space station. I saw a great many things that just cannot be, if you subscribe to normal thinking. The ETs that talk to me say they are Pleiadieans, and that may be, but I have no real way to know, do I? I have also spoken to a, take a breath here, a giant Monarch Butterfly doctor! This being was the most kind being I have ever seen, and he/she was a medical doctor who examined me, and did some things to me, and made me feel a lot better. I had an encounter with a 9 feet tall being of Royal Bearing, this being looked a lot like the Martian in the film, "Mission to Mars." I was taken to "school" and taught things, like mechanical engineering and computer hardware and biology and science.

When I was a young man, I took all this as a mental problem, or brain tumor, and that was it. but as I grow older, I know this was not the case. why, you ask? Because I have met others who tell me the same stories, almost exactly. I know that many members in this forum think autowrench is nuts, and needs to be in a mental ward under heavy sedation, but what I think is, this is real. Humanity is some sort of experiment, and Earth is a science station. there are many ET races watching over us, trying to see what we will do as we begin to ascend to a higher dimension. Some are attempting to steal our soul material, and recycle it again. Some want to use our DNA for their own evolution. Some are just about control, and wish that we were their slaves.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
The question is, what are they? I used to believe that some were probably ET controlled, but after I started doing more research I found I wasn't getting the whole story about some UFO cases from the books I read, they were biased.

Funny, I had the opposite reaction. After reading Klass, SI, and many other books by pseudo-skeptics I discovered that these self-proclaimed skeptics and so-called rationalists were nothing but true believers in disguise.

I'll stick with people such as Jerome Clark, Richard Hall, James McDonnald, when it comes to giving an unbiased account of things. If bias is to be found, there's plenty of it on the pseudo-skeptic side.

I'm a skeptic in that I refuse to believe that every unknown aerial phenomenon is a spacecraft from "out there", or for that matter, a reverse engineered aircraft who's source is from "out there".

I'm a believer that people are seeing something unknown to them...but not necessarily to others.

So color me a skeptical believer...