Zeitgeist Movement = most hardcore NWO propaganda ever.

I don't think you need that second cupcake Dave

I don't think you need to Take the kids to Disney World in Orlando this year Dave, but you can take them to EuroDisney in 2011

I am not going to allow the Chemo treatments Dave, that will cost $365,000 and only increase your life expectancy by 18 months.

This is why, ultimately whatever benefits it may have, this is a nonstarter for me. Especially the cupcake thing.

Yeah. But they still wont give data to support the abundance theory.

Moving on, into more perspective of why I call it the ultimate NWO propaganda...

I've been in seemingly my own little niche of NWO + emerging technologies research and expose, with AGI being ushered to kickstart the technological singularity, for some years now. Basically everything of a concept I had in the future scenario, the darkest one that is, is laid out nearly verbatim in the ZM.

Note that I said darkest scenario. For years I've called this the Post World Order. I wont even say ZM is the means, more like the final outcome. But in this darkest vision, most that you know, people reading this site, etc, wont be there.

It's the world where the elites obtain their near-immortality via emerging technologies, and realize that eventually, even after plundering us all of our wealth, sooner or later the technology will become cheap enough for the rest.

Eventually 'adjustments' are made to curb the population. With less people an economic model such as ZM is more realistic, especially when there exist vast reserves in the absense of many billions; abundance. With very specific parameters it could be that people wouldn't have to work, but not 7 billion or more.

Neo-Communism is what I labeled it. A concept like the Resource Economy is heavy in transhumanist propaganda, and thats how I came to envison this nightmare. It involves automation, AND 'automatons'. But as argued so well, robots wont very well be able to do everything. They already dominate many assembly lines, but in the US for example service is most of the economy.

So the key for the Neo-Communist economy is slave labor. My argument goes, why spend all the money and resources developing robots to take over the service industry when you have billions 'at your disposal' initially? If there isnt going to be a need for money, you'll need slave labor on the backs of many to support those who live that lucious reality. But how do you get the human subjects to be willing slaves?

The answer is emerging technologies. With the right nanobot neural implants its not too far off that humans could be the ultimate 'automaton' slaves. With enough of these slaves, the elites wouldnt need concepts such as currency or markets. But with todays population there wouldnt be enough abundance to pull it off either, just like there is little possibility of the so-called ZM / VP fantasy.

Sound far off people? Do your research, I can show you the way.

So again ZM is the ultimate NWO propaganda. Its a window into the world of tomorrow, if the elites get their technological ambitions and only if theres far less people around than we have now. ZM is the ultimate conditioning for people to embrace the concepts found in ZM when they see them happening, even though the design isnt meant to benefit the masses. It's all building to something that mathematically cant include us all.

Supporting the technolgical establishment and their transhumanist agenda is on par with groveling at billionaires just because they have lots of money, no matter how many backs they had to stab to get there. You can lick the billionaires boots but it wont make you one and you probably wont retire on the island in paradise with the billionaire, unless your his loyal servant serving him in his retirement.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by Landru



I don't think you need that second cupcake Dave

I don't think you need to Take the kids to Disney World in Orlando this year Dave, but you can take them to EuroDisney in 2011

I am not going to allow the Chemo treatments Dave, that will cost $365,000 and only increase your life expectancy by 18 months.

This is why, ultimately whatever benefits it may have, this is a nonstarter for me. Especially the cupcake thing.

Computers do not make decisions like that, fear of that nature stems from not understanding programming. Computers simply COMPUTE, and they can do it faster, with much larger amounts of data then we can. The only thing a computer helps us to do is arrive at different sets of technical possiblities.

We still have to make the decision.

Their is a difference between COMPUTING and sentience. To have sentience a computer would need a pineal gland and copious amounts of N, N Dimethyltryptamine.

Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

whats the problem in replacing humans with robots if we didnt need to work ... we could use our time to do creative things, whatever

aside from the fact it's impossible?

machines can't do my job, or my wife's job (me - acupuncture. her - behavioral therapist for autistic children)

the problem of differential reward for things like, advanced degrees, and actually doing something so others can do nothing, will not go away.

personally, if you decided to just be a sponge, i'd say you have no right to access any service by any person who actually does something useful

Acupuncture is one of those things that we wouldn't have to automate, its a close relationship between people. Do you not enjoy performing acupuncture? It is definitely not monotonous, nor laboring.

Yes, we wouldn't have to automate it. But that's not my point. My point is, that in JF's vision, people don't have to do anything constructive. Meanwhile, I busted my rear for 48 months to get this master's degree, and despite what you may think, it takes quite a bit of work to gather business, stay updated on medical/research developments, attend seminars, process paperwork, etc. Which is to say nothing of the emotional strain of people placing their hopes in your hands, or the threat of lawsuits....

So, I do all this, and then people who do nothing but live off the work of machines are going to expect to be materially compensated (resource distribution) equally to what I am? No way. And I certainly won't have my labor factored into the robotic calculation as a 'resource' that people have access to without my free consent (this is the fault of socialized medicine - the idea that people have a 'right' to the service of a person's labor).

I certainly didn't get into this field for the money - it's hard to even pay the bills. I got into it because I like the personal aspect, and it has always been my number one desire to help people - to do whatever it is I think 'God' wants me to do. I also did it, because I want to work for myself. Still not there yet, but at least I don't have a true boss anymore.

People who have to work long and hard to do what they do, and offer the world a true service i the process, are going to expect - and they will deserve - to be compensated beyond what the inevitable majority of sponges will receive as 'resource allotments' .

And it's here that the egalitarian philosophy breaks down.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Ok, so Zeitgeist is propaganda, so what do we do? Apparently technology cannot be trusted so what do we do??

And how would the people NOT have access to the same technology as the elite? Transhumanism tries to get rid of the "elite" that only proliferate in monetary systems.

Maybe we need a plan to safe guard ourselves from them?

Any ideas?

Our technology is not our enemy, we are our own enemies. You can use technology to help or harm.




[edit on 11/28/2009 by dalan.]

Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

whats the problem in replacing humans with robots if we didnt need to work ... we could use our time to do creative things, whatever

aside from the fact it's impossible?

machines can't do my job, or my wife's job (me - acupuncture. her - behavioral therapist for autistic children)

the problem of differential reward for things like, advanced degrees, and actually doing something so others can do nothing, will not go away.

personally, if you decided to just be a sponge, i'd say you have no right to access any service by any person who actually does something useful

Acupuncture is one of those things that we wouldn't have to automate, its a close relationship between people. Do you not enjoy performing acupuncture? It is definitely not monotonous, nor laboring.

My point is, that in JF's vision, people don't have to do anything constructive.

Gaining the technical education necessary to have the abilities to problem solve is not constructive? Because that is the over-all point.

The whole point is freeing people from monotony so they can do more CONSTRUCTIVE activities that are enjoyable. I like working with computers, I enjoy it. You have to pay me to get me away from the computer.

I could write programs all day, I love it, and if I can use my abilities to help other people that is even better.

And far more constructive.

Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

whats the problem in replacing humans with robots if we didnt need to work ... we could use our time to do creative things, whatever

aside from the fact it's impossible?

machines can't do my job, or my wife's job (me - acupuncture. her - behavioral therapist for autistic children)

the problem of differential reward for things like, advanced degrees, and actually doing something so others can do nothing, will not go away.

personally, if you decided to just be a sponge, i'd say you have no right to access any service by any person who actually does something useful

Acupuncture is one of those things that we wouldn't have to automate, its a close relationship between people. Do you not enjoy performing acupuncture? It is definitely not monotonous, nor laboring.

My point is, that in JF's vision, people don't have to do anything constructive.

Gaining the technical education necessary to have the abilities to problem solve is not constructive? Because that is the over-all point.

The whole point is freeing people from monotony so they can do more CONSTRUCTIVE activities that are enjoyable. I like working with computers, I enjoy it. You have to pay me to get me away from the computer.

I could write programs all day, I love it, and if I can use my abilities to help other people that is even better.

And far more constructive.

You're definitely in the minority if you would do stuff. Then again, it's not all about doing what you feel like doing. That's just how life works. There will be jobs that need doing, and incentives will need to be offered to get people to do them.

I was a teacher. Most kids aren't going to bother learning a hole lot if they aren't made to. There are always exceptions, but they're exceptions.

I wasn't talking about you, btw..... just the inevitable crowd of millions who will be content to laze about and do nothing...

Ever heard about the Yellowstone grizzlies, and what happened to them when they started having easy access to food in the form of human trash? Google it... maybe you can find a video on it. Not having to do anything to get what they needed, nearly destroyed them.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

whats the problem in replacing humans with robots if we didnt need to work ... we could use our time to do creative things, whatever

aside from the fact it's impossible?

machines can't do my job, or my wife's job (me - acupuncture. her - behavioral therapist for autistic children)

the problem of differential reward for things like, advanced degrees, and actually doing something so others can do nothing, will not go away.

personally, if you decided to just be a sponge, i'd say you have no right to access any service by any person who actually does something useful

Acupuncture is one of those things that we wouldn't have to automate, its a close relationship between people. Do you not enjoy performing acupuncture? It is definitely not monotonous, nor laboring.

My point is, that in JF's vision, people don't have to do anything constructive.

Gaining the technical education necessary to have the abilities to problem solve is not constructive? Because that is the over-all point.

The whole point is freeing people from monotony so they can do more CONSTRUCTIVE activities that are enjoyable. I like working with computers, I enjoy it. You have to pay me to get me away from the computer.

I could write programs all day, I love it, and if I can use my abilities to help other people that is even better.

And far more constructive.

You're definitely in the minority if you would do stuff. Then again, it's not all about doing what you feel like doing. That's just how life works. There will be jobs that need doing, and incentives will need to be offered to get people to do them.

I was a teacher. Most kids aren't going to bother learning a hole lot if they aren't made to. There are always exceptions, but they're exceptions.

I wasn't talking about you, btw..... just the inevitable crowd of millions who will be content to laze about and do nothing...

Ever heard about the Yellowstone grizzlies, and what happened to them when they started having easy access to food in the form of human trash? Google it... maybe you can find a video on it. Not having to do anything to get what they needed, nearly destroyed them.

We could maybe approach children differently? If you were a teacher I would like to hear if you had any thoughts on how we could get MORE children interested in learning because that is the kind of problem solving we need?? Any thoughts? What worked best in your experience?

Originally posted by dalan.
Ok, so Zeitgeist is propaganda, so what do we do? Apparently technology cannot be trusted so what do we do??

Getting enough people interested in the movement and the concept of transhumanism, we could have whole groups of designers, architects, programmers...etc getting together to build the city.

Hey now we're getting somewhere.

Originally posted by dalan.
The goal of the movement was to build an "experimental city."

This is the solution, sort of. I've argued the solution in the past in the following thread:
Best Case Scenario may still be our Worst Nightmare
In todays thread someone even mentioned the Amish. I speak of Neo-Amish, basically humans as we are today who embrace technology but dont merge with it.

I cant see where humans and advanced cyborg humans would co-exist for very long. I've thought a great dela about ho to resolve this. As I've said, once 'humans' are obsolete they'll snap, while I dont care what technology brain implants the cyborgs get I wouldnt put it past them to wipe out the lesser species.

So my solution is seperate cities. Since currently the elites are setting the policy, under the current scenario it'd likely have to be the humans who venture out and try to build up communities that lead to cities.

But in a just world, since the rights the Transhumanists seek promises to harm the rights of the humans, the Trans's should be the ones to build their own utopian cities, as you mentioned.

Like say the nanotechnology, you are afraid that proponents want to imbue themselves with technology to make themselves "immortal." Or at least to improve upon human abilities giving them an edge over us.

That's a big part of it. There's also the part where even Kurzweil admits that soon after effective nano implants are reality the drinking water supply could be contaminated with neurologically invasive nanobots. I dont trust humans or Transhumanists enough to allow them that power over me.

But what if everyone had that edge? What could they do then?

Nothing that we ourselves could not also do.

I uderstand that. But like the situation of implementing the Resource Economy, how do you go from here to there without undue suffering and tyranny? Everyone wont do it. Perhaps thats why Peter's first part of his first film was an all out attck on Christianity in particular and religion in general. Talk about 1st degree propaganda.

what if developers, or anyone technically savvy, got together and decided to take over right now?

They already are, as I've been reporting for years:
*Google’s A.I. quest to become God-On-Earth.
*Neocommunism to prevent the masses from affording Life Extension technologies.
*Obama’s NBIC (nano-bio-info-cogno convergence) Agenda.
*An Inconvenient Truth on Al Gore: Google & NASA A.I.

That last bit might help people understand what this Global Warming alarmist fraud is about.

And how would the people NOT have access to the same technology as the elite? Transhumanism tries to get rid of the "elite" that only proliferate in monetary systems.

There are a lot of well meaning transhumanists out there who really believe that humanity can be better off with its existence. The problem is its the elites perpetrating it, as the captains of economy and technology, et al. Meanwhile, not all people will be interested, and will lash out when facing expendability.

Our technology is not our enemy, we are our own enemies. You can use technology to help or harm.

I concur. First we need to stop the NWO agenda. But there needs to be discussion of all this now, to help us figure out how to coexist after. For the time being, I dont detect too much of this sort of discussion, and if anything it should really motivate people to ensure the future is 'done right' and stomp out this NWO business. I dont deny the inevitability of whatever is actually possible with technology.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Obviously some elements of The Venus Project are incredibly far-fetched -- some of the technology spoken of is still a century away from practical use, and obviously those currently in power will do everything possible to make sure none of these concepts come to fruition. One also must keep in mind, however, that the number of people who have seen the second Zeitgeist film (remember that the first one is what most are familiar with) is so miniscule as to be nothing more than a blip on the ruling class's radar. Their goal is to capture the minds of the masses -- in this regard, Glenn Beck and Keith Olbermann are much more effective tools than Peter Joseph and Jacques Fresco. And Marxist propaganda? Just because The Venus Project advocates a resource-based, eco-friendly society? Come on. Have the UN lies about global warming really caused that much mistrust. Because if so, I could easily go ultra-conspiracy theorist and say that the e-mails were leaked deliberately, so as to halt ALL legitimate efforts to curb environmental devastation on this planet. The notion that environmentalism and Marxism are forever intertwined has been gaining momentum among conservatives in this country, and quite frankly, it frightens me. Forget about the CO2 lies. We are running out of fresh air and water. As I said, the Venus Project is undoubtedly flawed, but to completely dismiss any and all ideas promoted by an organization that actively researches more peaceful, sustainable solutions to human continuity on Earth is, in my opinion, feeding the propaganda machine even more.

reply to post by dalan.


honestly? i think school as an institution needs to be completely reinvented, or abolished. it's crazy to me that we take kids from their families, stick them in cubes (the rooms) every day with 30 of their peers, and just bombard them with fact after fact that they have no context for understanding, and no motivation to really learn.

i like the idea of an education that somehow gets them out of the classroom, and into the world. sure, to learn certain things, you need to spend time with a book and a desk. but somehow we need to tie those lessons in to something in the real world they can relate to and get involved with. kids tend to get really motivated when they get to work side by side with somebody they know cares about them.

but you know what? the world doesn't care about kids. the corporate world, that is. they're a drag on efficiency. they get in the way. they require money, time, day care, leaves of absence.... the only people society has less time for is the elderly.

i want legal structures in place that protect the right of loved ones to spend time together, and punishments for businesses that try to take it away. it's a travesty we spend so little time with those we love on a given day.

and i wish we used more science - data - to determine instructional methodologies.

that's my basic take.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

Originally posted by TrueTruth
I'm talking about:

The data to support the theory of "scarcity" as being responsible for the human behaviors they claim it is. I've seen nothing in the literature of behaviorism to substantiate this belief.
[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

Well, think about the difference between the rich and the poor. The rich has everything: a house, a car, plenty of foods, material goods, access to good education and health care, etc.

On the other hand, the poor have mostly nothing. Their life is much more difficult because they lack money to meet their basic needs and to receive good education and health care. Many of those people are gonna do drugs to escape reality, do crimes or simply be part of street gangs because it brings them easy money.

When you have nothing, it's easier to sell drugs or steal than to get a degree and get out of poverty.

Now, you can easily understand why criminality is rampant in poor neighborhoods.

Originally posted by jbm1029
One also must keep in mind, however, that the number of people who have seen the second Zeitgeist film (remember that the first one is what most are familiar with) is so miniscule as to be nothing more than a blip on the ruling class's radar.

I dont know the figures for the viewership of part 2. As a no-budget anti-establishment filmaker, I will say that the 1st one helped in the motivation of Google Video to neuter itself and remove hits, comments, and so on. Its been impossible to know viewership since. I havent a hope of even knowing how many people watch my own videos. Quite demoralizing actually. But I'm not blaming Zeitgeist pt1, dont get me wrogn this being an anti-Zeitgeist thread.

goal is to capture the minds of the masses -- in this regard, Glenn Beck and Keith Olbermann are much more effective tools than Peter Joseph and Jacques Fresco.

Oh, I get it. Polarization! The funny thing is when it was Bush Keith was so dead on all the time, now he's an O'Reilly. Beck speaks a lot of truth, but also diverts you from much truth. He's setting himself up to be a phoney libertarian messiah.

And Marxist propaganda? Just because The Venus Project advocates a resource-based, eco-friendly society? Come on.

Com'on is right. The biggest ZM advocate in the thread even admitted it.

Have the UN lies about global warming really caused that much mistrust.

You know what, I hope. Perhaps this is the best time for people to consider the ambitions of the upper scientific elite to be debated, not mere global warming, but the dark side I've been trying to expose for years.

We are running out of fresh air and water.

I know. It's sad. Global Warming has been diverting attention and resources from that and hunger for too long.

As I said, the Venus Project is undoubtedly flawed, but to completely dismiss any and all ideas promoted by an organization that actively researches more peaceful, sustainable solutions to human continuity on Earth is, in my opinion, feeding the propaganda machine even more.

I didnt dismiss the peace and sustainability of it. I'll promote the ideals in that light that touch so many other views. I attacked the dark sides of it. You got me: I said "attacked".

[edit on 29-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by Redge


Sure. Poverty can be a factor.

Ah heck. I'm honestly burnt on this topic for now.

suffice to say, i think the theory is just an oversimplification.

Originally posted by Redge
On the other hand, the poor have mostly nothing. Their life is much more difficult because they lack money to meet their basic needs and to receive good education and health care. Many of those people are gonna do drugs to escape reality, do crimes or simply be part of street gangs because it brings them easy money.

I dont knwo anyone who argues against what poverty causes to the populace.

What I argue is that virtually all poverty and war is the result of the privately owned ferderal reserve. I appreciate ohow well Pete's film destruct the Fed.

I even appreciate how Michael Moore exposes how badly so many people who actually have insurance are treated, in Sicko.

When i watch Addendum, I immediately called it Michael Moore journalism: In SiCKO MM showed how we HAD the best health care in the world, but corrupt crony capitalism measures implemented by Nixonbrought it all down. Later he tells us we NEED socialism to make it right, not the original scenario that was world class.

Then Peter Joseph makes Addendum, lays out how the "Fed" ruined everything via corrupt crony capialism to the Nth power, so now we need Communism to fix it.

I dont know how either, if to be assumed to be intelligent, could possibly not realize the high level manipulative black propaganda they were engaging in, ideologues or not.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Ok OP, I just want to make myself perfectly clear, i am completely against the NWO.

The sustainability, the cooperation, the freedom of expression, the initiative to responsibility...these are what inspired so greatly towards the Venus Project.

I do not doubt that the elite would use technology against us because they do it now.

If you have any ideas from where to start I would like to hear them.

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by dalan.

 

honestly? i think school as an institution needs to be completely reinvented, or abolished. it's crazy to me that we take kids from their families, stick them in cubes (the rooms) every day with 30 of their peers, and just bombard them with fact after fact that they have no context for understanding, and no motivation to really learn.

i like the idea of an education that somehow gets them out of the classroom, and into the world. sure, to learn certain things, you need to spend time with a book and a desk. but somehow we need to tie those lessons in to something in the real world they can relate to and get involved with. kids tend to get really motivated when they get to work side by side with somebody they know cares about them.

but you know what? the world doesn't care about kids. the corporate world, that is. they're a drag on efficiency. they get in the way. they require money, time, day care, leaves of absence.... the only people society has less time for is the elderly.

i want legal structures in place that protect the right of loved ones to spend time together, and punishments for businesses that try to take it away. it's a travesty we spend so little time with those we love on a given day.

and i wish we used more science - data - to determine instructional methodologies.

that's my basic take.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

And that is where I am coming from, that is the kind of problem solving that we need more of.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

1. Global Government.

I don't have any problems with global governance. The question is what kind of government it will be. The real NWO is pushing for a world corporatist government. A supersized EU.

3. AGI (‘Skynet’) Supercomuters controlling most aspects of politics and society, including rationing global resources to global citizens. If they actually thought this out they'd know that soon enough machines will need more resources than humans.

Last time I checked, I go through a lot more food oxygen and water than a computer does. All a computer requires to run is electricity and possibly service every now and then.

4. A Utopian Agenda that “Peter” claims isn’t Utopian, yet the ‘research institute’ even describes itself as being Utopian / Futurist. History proves that all forced utopias become dystopias

What is the difference between a forced Utopia and an unforced one? Utopians don't just happen, they are the result of consenting individuals and a fair amount of political philosophy.

5. Selfish Transhumanist agenda.

Yes, the transformation of the human race into posthuman cyborgs that excel at everything a normal human can do in every conceivable way including longevity. How horribly selfish.

Cashless (non-backed by Gold/etc) economic system. A ‘Resource Economy’ has been tried before… in the Soviet Union.

That was not a resource based economy. Strictly speaking, an economy completely based upon units of energy has never been attempted. It's all theory but then again, so was democracy prior to Athens.

What I argue is that virtually all poverty and war is the result of the privately owned ferderal reserve. I appreciate ohow well Pete's film destruct the Fed.

That is not entirely accurate. Many wars and much of the dividing line between the upper and lower class and the shrinking of the middle class is due to the Federal Reserve, but as long as scarcity of resources, goods and services exists, there will be war and there will be poverty. A corporatist economic model is the underlying cause of the disparity.


[edit on 29-11-2009 by The Transhumanist]

[edit on 29-11-2009 by The Transhumanist]

what the hell are you talking about?
have you watched the films? How Could ZM be a front for the NWO, when it bashes how corrupt entities like thle World Bank are? Both films discuss how the end of the gold standard as well as the Federal Reserve destroyed the US economy. It does discuss that a true utopia world would be based off of a non monetary system, but not exactly a "resource system", but more of a system based on fulfilling everyones needs, if it is technologically and physically possible.

If it is so NWO why would it discuss the negative affects of government and corporation blending together? Some items discussed in the films are out there, but a lot simply state the problems and issues with the current "wealthy global power" corrupting this world...

NWO backed? ya...tell that to the World Bank...

[edit on 29-11-2009 by trevordbs]

You guys are way too serious. This post made me realize how much people want the 100% efficient ready made system without working hard to achieve at all. So, just leave it to the politicians and keep complaining. There cannot be utopia, not in our life time. The future we're talking about is the future we are not probably gonna live in.

If Venus project have slightest chance of success, there won't even be this movement. Imagine how easy for TPTB to inject society with ever more confusion.

Divide and Conquer. Still works !