Zeitgeist Movement = most hardcore NWO propaganda ever.

If you ask me,Its just another thing made by the government used to control us,Infact that is exactly it.They are using technology most likely beyond our time,and probaly beyond their comprehsension to use,I might no fully understand it all but i know enough to doubt them.I give it a

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by dalan.
Jobs are already outsourced to machines.

Right, and there already isnt enough jobs. Machines do help, but when you hand control over to them, and task them with controlling resources, them being AGI, how long do you think until they decide we're a waste of resources?

Admittedly, I don't know what AGI is or stands for, but I do know a fair amount about machines, and if you don't program a machine with the option to decide humans are a waste of resources, the machines will not decide that.

Originally posted by dalan.
That's because we use technology, the NWO would want technology to be controlled, they would want the majority to be uneducated as to how to actually use it, replicate it, manage it, create it...etc.

This response has nothing to do with what my comment and that video was. Watch the video. They're already building the exact machine needed for ZM, with part of its goal to monitor all earth systems and resources.

But in reponse to your response, when machines get the total takeover what do you think would happen in regards to "how to actually use it, replicate it, manage it, create it...etc."?

I think you've been watching too much sci-fi. Considering the programming is all going to be open source, unless there's a programmer genocide and only a select few know how to code, the chances for some supervillain scheme is less than likely.

By the way, no one with the movement ever called for a "global government,"

No? The movement itself does: ...

Let me address a few of these snippets you selected.

Many believe that ethical standards and international laws will assure a sustainable global society.

There's more to it. It continues,

Even if the most ethical people in the world were elected to political office, without sufficient resources, we would still have the same problems. What is needed is the intelligent management of Earth's resources for the benefit of all and protection of the environment.

And no matter how afraid you are of global government, the phrase global society could easily be substituted with "humanity."

We could easily create a world of abundance without servitude and debt through the creation of a global, resource-based civilization.

If you live on Earth, you are part of a global civilization, regardless of government.

Quite a few of the remaining quotes you provided seem to only be there because they contain the word "global." One mentions World Unification, which would be frightening if George Bush said it, but in context it is referring to all people working together for the common good of our species, which is not at all akin to enslavement of the masses.

In closing, I understand that history has been full of people with false promises used to deceive people and gain power. Your argument however seems to be that because ideas in the past have been deceptive, all ideas must be deceptive. The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project are what the "NWO" tries to appear to be. The difference is that ZM is driven by the members, is open to suggestions and doesn't hide behind broad or sweeping statements. There is nothing being concealed here. You're jumping to conclusions and twisting words to justify your own paranoia.

I agree, a multi polar world is the best option. Anything that is a global monopoly is bad, I dont care what sugar coating is put on it. I made friends with a nuclear engineer or whatever, the guy was a genius. He talked about uni-polar and multi-polar authority. He made it quite clear that corruption would thrive with nothing to challenge it, nothing to keep it in check.

I like the idea of independant nations... working together sure. But this thing thats going on right now, its just scary.

I agree. The people behind the Zeitgeist "movement" have very dark intentions.

Great post OP. When Zeitgeist came out, I was a big fan of it. But when the Zeitgeist movement emerged, I got a funny feeling about it. In the film they had talked about the evils of the NWO, but the movement seemed to be wanting a NWO of its own. Then I heard a debate between the Zeitgeist maker and Alex Jones on Alex's radio show. Now, as someone who values Alex Jones' input, but isn't a follower of his, I listened to the debate objectively and the conclusion I drew was that the two sides both hate the current NWO but propose fundamentally different solutions. Alex Jones (who is essentially a Romanticist) proposes reverting to a more traditional way of life, whilst Zeitgesit proposes a complete rejection of traditional values in favour of something fresh and untested.

The Zeitgeist movement is probably good in intention, but I can't help thinking it's fascistic in its own way. Seems to me that it would utilise enviro-fascism in the same way as the current NWO are utilising Global Warming. That worries me. What also worries me is how atheistic and, ironically, anti-nature the Zeitgesit movement appears to be. They talk about 're-educating', as though we can be turned from animals into robots. I don't like it.

Wow...

For all the lip service I've heard about the ATS community being informed, this thread is really surprising.

Pages and pages of support for the OP, so full of ignorance & baseless assumptions, so obvious that neither the OP nor those in favor of this hit-piece, have the 1st clue about the zeitgeist movement, what it stands for, and how it will generate agreeable results that benefit humans, our species (without further distinction).

You hear a phrase like "global community" (aka humanity) and immediately think it to be a bad thing, using nothing more than info-skimming, ignorance and "gut feeling". Being reactionary to keywords does not equal intelligence, people.

At the heart of TZM is a unifying effort & energy that the world's resources are everyone's to inherit, not ruled by some elite as falsely suggested here. If we wish to survive this violent adolescence, we must grow our understanding about how we got here. TZM works towards this and it is very cogent if you're open to (sometimes difficult) truths.

Seems like many of you are in a dark place; cannot see past the nightmare of today. TZM is a practical beginning-of-the-end to that nightmare. Are you so jaded by corruption that you cannot even consider something that isn't corrupt? Everything must be a conspiracy? Are you no longer able to look into yourself and see what is real?


If you're still reading this, please do your own research about TZM. Nothing that the OP espouses is even remotely close to what TZM is about, and shame on you OP for being the embodiment of irony (re: your nickname).

Originally posted by dalan.

Computers do not make decisions like that, fear of that nature stems from not understanding programming. Computers simply COMPUTE, and they can do it faster, with much larger amounts of data then we can. The only thing a computer helps us to do is arrive at different sets of technical possiblities.

We still have to make the decision.

Their is a difference between COMPUTING and sentience. To have sentience a computer would need a pineal gland and copious amounts of N, N Dimethyltryptamine.

from the venus project :

It is this interest that has created the concept of a 'Resource Based Economy'. The Venus project has been working on this concept for a long time and its foundation is very simple. We survey, preserve and maximize our use of planetary resources in conjunction with open information and technological development.

In this view, little is left to subjective interpretation, for it is a scientifically derived strategy for social construction at the very core. From there, the scientific parameters work themselves out as far as possibilities.

So, whether it is Senior Scientist Commander Venus or the Zeitgeist Commisar for Eastern Northern America or the Central Computer - really there is no escape that some one\thing will be making these decisions and I still believe ultimately what I said to be true under this sytem:

Originally posted by Landru



I don't think you need that second cupcake Dave

I don't think you need to Take the kids to Disney World in Orlando this year Dave, but you can take them to EuroDisney in 2011

I am not going to allow the Chemo treatments Dave, that will cost $365,000 and only increase your life expectancy by 18 months.

This is why, ultimately whatever benefits it may have, this is a nonstarter for me. Especially the cupcake thing.

Hey guys, nice thread.

I just wanna add that ANY change requires withdraw from old mind
concepts that are very real to the present situation of you and the
people you love (or just the next person).

All political POVs are important, even the failed ones: communism,
socialism, fascism, and now capitalism. We needed the failure, we
needed the data, we needed to learn the limits of those ideas.

Back to change. Its brutal. Only a brave person can change.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage."
Anaïs Nin

I dont see tyranny as a way to change. Why we need to force things
on people so they can be popular and mainstream? Any method of
control will result in... control! And the perils and dangers of 'meritocracy'.

The way to fight the NWO is just one: stop feeding the ego. Get together,
unite in courage to let the control go and education, science to build a
society that can live inside democracy, and by its own terms and HARD
EVIDENCE DATA that all things that serves the ego are obsolete and
illusions of the (again) ego projecting enemies instead of resolving things.

Lastly: we really need to start talking about individual and collective
sovereignty.

PS: I believe in the works of bedini. Tech is there. Anyone can build the beta city with a minimum requirement of land, water and.... brave people,
like the amish.


RP
city.

Sounds alot like Alduos Huxleys " Brave New World"

reply to post by JosephMatthew


Greatings JosephMatthew! My name is Timothy Daniel! Right next to me is Luke Mark. Thanks for registering at ATS in response to this thread. If only we could get Peter Joseph in here...

Many ZM supporters responded to this thread, but eventually they seem to have mostly given up or even changed their opinion to some degree.

I love your absolutist rhetoric about my 'hit piece' being totally false. That sort of talk really makes you the voice of reason!

I get the feeling you havent read the entire thread.

In review:

The NWO is building almost exactly the system the ZM is calling for, except the parts where ZM pays lip service to it being good and 'nice'ie, not spying on you, not tyrannical), the NWO is the ZM in practice as to implement the ZM requires tyranny.

Perhaps you can succeed where others have failed: How can you implement it without tyranny or human suffering? How can you maintain it without tyranny or human suffering? How long will it take to transition this GLOBAL system? How much tyranny and suffering is it worth, assuming it could only be done by unfriendly means?

Theres been no arguments against an argument raised about machines not being able to replace ALL of our jobs, meaning humans will still have to work, which screws up the entire economic model of automation.

And YES it IS a GLOBAL GOVERNMENT. The way the system is presented globally, with machines smarter than humans rationing out resources, it could probobly only work on a global scale, if it could at all. Global scale management of resources IS GLOBAL GOVERNMENT.

For a centralized system to "manage" (ration) resources, it WILL require tyranny to enforce it, as not everyone will play along. You'll never stomp out libertarians and anarchists, NEVER!

Data (ie scholarly papers, etc) supporting the notion of there being abundance in all the resources the way Fresco claims has been requested on just about every page in this thread. Nobody supporting ZM seems to be able to show us. If you cant show us data suggesting the abundance theory is realistic, then that leads me and probably others to believe that it would require a population reduction agenda to thin out the population (make the 'data' 'fit') so that afterwards there WOULD be abundance.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by deadvirgo
If you live on Earth, you are part of a global civilization, regardless of government.

Quite a few of the remaining quotes you provided seem to only be there because they contain the word "global." One mentions World Unification, which would be frightening if George Bush said it, but in context it is referring to all people working together for the common good of our species, which is not at all akin to enslavement of the masses.

As I keep saying:
YES it IS a GLOBAL GOVERNMENT. The way the system is presented globally, with machines smarter than humans rationing out resources, it could probobly only work on a global scale, if it could at all.
Global scale management (control) of resources IS GLOBAL GOVERNMENT.

Originally posted by AOMofficial
There cannot be utopia, not in our life time. The future we're talking about is the future we are not probably gonna live in.

If Venus project have slightest chance of success, there won't even be this movement. Imagine how easy for TPTB to inject society with ever more confusion.

Divide and Conquer. Still works !

Please show an historical example of a utopia that didnt become a tyrannical dystopia. I would argue that the U.S. was the greatest success of the closest thing to a living utopia, and even it has become a dystopia. But the closest system the ZM matches is a command and control soviet bloc system. But at least the US had a long drawn out transition period, heck, many people still believe its utopia. But I fail to see where ZM wouldn't be a HARD transition into 'overnight' tyranny. Can you explain where I'm wrong? And explain how to do it without tyranny, please.

IIB - you have achieved nothing.

Seriously, give it up - we know what you are, your little ruse hasn't got any of us fooled.

You can attack the Zeitgeist movement all you like, but your little campaign is futile and sad. There's a reason you're on my FOE list, because you're a fundamentalist - and I bet a dangerous one at that.

I've been following your posts and threads, and I have to say, even a blind monkey could see the pattern.

The Para.

reply to post by Parallex




Ok, what am I? Who am I?

Campaign? Oh, yeah, everyday at my wordpress site I do hitpieces on ZM, and travel all the worlds forums and do this here... lol right. What kind of "fundamentalist" am I? I'm dangerous to tryants and global governemnt schemes, as well as transhumanists and others related. Yes, you got me, I admit it. What is the "pattern"? Have you been watching too much Fringe?

My favorite memory from my time on the ZM boards, was when we had a pedophile on the boards, and the mods wouldn't do anything about it. The guy was openly talking about his beliefs in the naturalness of having sex with children - on a board that had kids on it.

They hopped all over ME if I said a bad word about PJ ... but pedophiles? Perfectly welcome.

They're completely misguided fools.

I had never heard of zeitgeist or the venus project, but based on the discussion here, it sounds pretty good to me. The anti side sounds like those that scream 'freedom' from their provided cages.....

Originally posted by skunknuts
I had never heard of zeitgeist or the venus project, but based on the discussion here, it sounds pretty good to me. The anti side sounds like those that scream 'freedom' from their provided cages.....

And collectivist authoritarian state says freedom to you?

oye.

Beware the temptation of he that offers utopian futures....

Originally posted by TrueTruth
My favorite memory from my time on the ZM boards, was when we had a pedophile on the boards, and the mods wouldn't do anything about it. The guy was openly talking about his beliefs in the naturalness of having sex with children - on a board that had kids on it.

They hopped all over ME if I said a bad word about PJ ... but pedophiles? Perfectly welcome.

They're completely misguided fools.

In my experience, most social psychologists, apparently rather respected by the zeitgeist mvmnt, are some of the strongest advocates against child abuse, be it obvious, or more insidious....

Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by skunknuts
I had never heard of zeitgeist or the venus project, but based on the discussion here, it sounds pretty good to me. The anti side sounds like those that scream 'freedom' from their provided cages.....

And collectivist authoritarian state says freedom to you?

oye.

Beware the temptation of he that offers utopian futures....

"collectivist authoritarian," oxymoron much? Separate people in to random meaningless groups, and they will quickly be enemies.

Originally posted by skunknuts

Originally posted by TrueTruth
My favorite memory from my time on the ZM boards, was when we had a pedophile on the boards, and the mods wouldn't do anything about it. The guy was openly talking about his beliefs in the naturalness of having sex with children - on a board that had kids on it.

They hopped all over ME if I said a bad word about PJ ... but pedophiles? Perfectly welcome.

They're completely misguided fools.

In my experience, most social psychologists, apparently rather respected by the zeitgeist mvmnt, are some of the strongest advocates against child abuse, be it obvious, or more insidious....

So, are you saying my story never happened?

Or are you attempting to do a 'virtue by loose association' maneuver?

My point is this - all they care about, is their own egos. They wouldn't even lift a finger to keep a pedophile away from the kids on their own board. That speaks volumes about their character.

Granted, he never made a move on anyone on the board, but nevertheless - you can't just ignore that kind of thing.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by TrueTruth]