One could argue that society is already dominated by chat rooms and TV dinners. Neither of which are anywhere near as beneficial to us as a species as Transhumanism will be.

I'm rather ambivalent about the Zeitgeist movement. But I do believe in Transhumanism as something beautiful. Kurt Vonnegut wrote a great short story about the dangers of opposing progress. Wish I could remember the name of it.

Originally posted by SpaceMonkeys
Great...lets not evolve our species in fear that we might be heading ourselves into a NWO

So when the already 'maximum seperation between rich and poor enters a whole new era of hyper-divergence, and causes total species conflict chaos, all because people just had to be living gods, will it have been worth it? You're proposing to to make "I'm not good enough" selfishism manifest into the ultimate nightmare of plutocratic serfdom. Oh, but of course, we wont have to work so therefore there wont be any competition at work. But as I've already begged, please outline the transition that doesnt take tyranny to get there.

If you can outline the transition to nobody needing to work again, then my realistic social meltdown argument may be set aside.

But if you can't lay that out for us, in a manner of policy that doesnt require decades of tyranny and/or human suffering, then arguing for radical life extension and cognitive augmentation is selfish.

Dont people see that the elites are trying to slow down our advancement in every way possible?

Yes. They're plunderingthe wealth of the world to ensure we cant keep up when overall only they'll be able to afford the stuff. Disgusting. But at the same time if the masses could afford brain implants then half the people wouldnt be interested, but the other half would make them obsolete. So now you're unable to make a living, or you can join us. Thats not what I calll freedom.

Under libertarian philosophy freedom is good, unless it harms the freedom of others. By not augmenting your freedom and prosperity isnt harmed, instead just your selfish desires are unfulfilled. And I'd say a libertarian is about the biggest freedom advocate you'll find. No?

Look at the economy, designed to enslave us with self generating debt, witholding technology so it can be kept for themselves and keeping outdated fuel such as oil because its easily taxable, breaking up society so we're divided and ruled, taking away our abilities to even bring up our children the way we should to keep them from turning into menaces, starting wars for their own personal gain, forcing mindless entertainment down our throats so we dont do too much thinking. If there was a revolution and the people rose up against the elites then what do we do after that? We cant stay living in the same system because that system was designed by the elites to enslave us, its a corrupt system, so the way civilisation would function would have to be drastically changed for the better.

I get it. I couldnt count the thousands of hours I've put into the fight, and in trying to figure out a way for the future to work, NWO or none. I dont need a lecture about our tyrannical system and selfish football/cosmo society. But this isnt an argument that supports Transhumanism.


[edit on 28-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
One could argue that society is already dominated by chat rooms and TV dinners. Neither of which are anywhere near as beneficial to us as a species as Transhumanism will be.

So did the tv dinners and myspace blogs about paris hilton cause a rise in the divisions between rich and poor? The latter actually did, as people spend more time on the mundane than things that matter to us all. So even chat room mundane selfish stimulation has hurt people, but not in any way even remotley near what transhumanism will. When ordinary humans become obsolete 'subhumans', watch how the barbarians (as I'm sure we'll be called) respond. Its just a matter of fact. And just because you get augmentation doesnt mean you'll be any different than the homo sapiens who exterminated the neanderthals.

Originally posted by dalan.
If Jacque Fresco or anyone in the movement program their computers to force an RFID chip, H1N1 vaccine, or fluoridated water into me...then I will believe that it is NWO propaganda.

What I mean about propaganda is that ZM is promoting all the ideas in my list, which the NWO is actually doing. THey're helping condition people into wanting such things, so that when they see it actually happening they can be fooled into thinking the utopia is actually here.

It's kind of like the New Ager 2012 propagandists who claim that 2012 will hereld a "transformation of consciousness" and 'hive mind telepathy', without any evidence whatsoever to base their claims on. Meanwhile such realities are on the path to occur via technology around that time. Go figure. 2012 comes and here comes non-invasive nerual comms units with mind control potential (these are basically already here) and the next step is 'wireless' maintenance free internal nanobots implant, hooked into the NWO's 'god on earth' AGI global computer network. Perfect.

Can anyone answer for me the views of the heads of the ZM in regards to guns and private property? I tried finding this info awhile back, in particular I looked for their quotes on private property, but had no luck.

It should be rather obvious really. Maybe in the first few years youcan keep what you have, but eventually with ai computers rationing everything and prescribing equality you'll all end up in the same spot. Better hope its a good one. Judging by the closest example of the system we have to compare it to historically, it should be an easy guess where you'd all be after a couple generations.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Can anyone answer for me the views of the heads of the ZM in regards to guns and private property? I tried finding this info awhile back, in particular I looked for their quotes on private property, but had no luck.

It should be rather obvious really. Maybe in the first few years youcan keep what you have, but eventually with ai computers rationing everything and prescribing equality you'll all end up in the same spot. Better hope its a good one. Judging by the closest example of the system we have to compare it to historically, it should be an easy guess where you'd all be after a couple generations.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Well, I can help....

They believe that the 2nd amendment is an obsolete law and looks to remove it when there is no longer a need for guns at all. How that is determined is still a question to me.

As far as private property, I did not get a sense that their aim was ever to remove any kind of private property rights. However, I do not recall a direct question on this topic being posed either. And nor can I find it researching that now.

I would just take them with a grain of salt, like anything else. TZM is nothing to be hyped up about.....Believe me and I am not really talking to you about this last point.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by ItzMeRon]

lol

really you waste all your time to do this?

well, if they really want to make a new world order like they say, well, I want it!!

whats the problem in replacing humans with robots if we didnt need to work ... we could use our time to do creative things, whatever

is not like you would have a carbox tax, or to pay to do everything ... this is what the ELITE wants ... to charge u with more taxes ...

whats the problem in replacing humans with robots if we didnt need to work ... we could use our time to do creative things, whatever

aside from the fact it's impossible?

machines can't do my job, or my wife's job (me - acupuncture. her - behavioral therapist for autistic children)

the problem of differential reward for things like, advanced degrees, and actually doing something so others can do nothing, will not go away.

personally, if you decided to just be a sponge, i'd say you have no right to access any service by any person who actually does something useful

Let me ask again: How can it be transistioned in without tyranny?

This is the the 'resource economy' question (I would have said million dollar but um ya). I say tyranny would be needed to maintain it, but if it could be answered how to even implement it without tyranny or other undue human suffering we might have somewhere to go.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

This has got to be the most far off topic ever..

..will not say any more..

There can be 2 differences, in pushing for any agenda.

1. other does it without telling the truth about what the F*ck is going on

2. other does it so, that all aspects of what is going on is shared..

..now which does the NWO fall into, and which does the Zeitgeist movement fall into?

You can look for any similarities, in ants and humans if you wish, (both have legs, and a head) and try to convince anyone that ant is a man, but that does not change the fundamental basics, by which they operate.

You can also find similarities in fighting and lovemaking, but there is allways that fundamental difference in the intention behind both..

Case closed.

Originally posted by Jussi
This has got to be the most far off topic ever..

..will not say any more..

There can be 2 differences, in pushing for any agenda.

1. other does it without telling the truth about what the F*ck is going on

2. other does it so, that all aspects of what is going on is shared..

..now which does the NWO fall into, and which does the Zeitgeist movement fall into?

You can look for any similarities, in ants and humans if you wish, (both have legs, and a head) and try to convince anyone that ant is a man, but that does not change the fundamental basics, by which they operate.

You can also find similarities in fighting and lovemaking, but there is allways that fundamental difference in the intention behind both..

Case closed.

Case closed?

How about,

3) other tells you exactly what they want to do, does it, but the idea is so horribly flawed, it blows up in everyone's face and nets the opposite result.



Good intent does not equal a good idea. And I question the ZM/VP intent.

Not that it matters. People are already tuning them out, because they don't do anything useful.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Let me ask again: How can it be transistioned in without tyranny?

This is the the 'resource economy' question (I would have said million dollar but um ya). I say tyranny would be needed to maintain it, but if it could be answered how to even implement it without tyranny or other undue human suffering we might have somewhere to go.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

You're right. It very much would require an authoritarian state. The technocracy folks don't hide this fact. They believe scientists are the best fit to rule in this sense.

And it fails to address, as communism always does, differential compensation for harder jobs that take more effort to learn how to do, or to do period. The VP believes machines will do all human jobs, so no one will need to work, and we will all be free do do whatever we want, all day every day - and that because there will also be total abundance of resources, no one will lack for anything, and hence conflicts will come to and end.

Sounds nifty, eh?

Originally posted by TrueTruth

whats the problem in replacing humans with robots if we didnt need to work ... we could use our time to do creative things, whatever

aside from the fact it's impossible?

machines can't do my job, or my wife's job (me - acupuncture. her - behavioral therapist for autistic children)

the problem of differential reward for things like, advanced degrees, and actually doing something so others can do nothing, will not go away.

personally, if you decided to just be a sponge, i'd say you have no right to access any service by any person who actually does something useful

Acupuncture is one of those things that we wouldn't have to automate, its a close relationship between people. Do you not enjoy performing acupuncture? It is definitely not monotonous, nor laboring.

I am going to warn in advance that this reply might sound flippant, presumptuous, and/or arrogant. I assure you that there is a method to this madness I employ, so please try to read in the infinite spaces between the lines, if you catch my drift.

Who cares? I don't anymore, at least about details such as this. The devil is in those details. I do know that we must diligently spread seeds of beauty and love (in addition to pointing out obvious, mindless, repetitive rituals), but I also know what to not fear anymore. All the conspiracies will very soon conspire with each other, leaving only one spiral, and that spiral will be the spirit of the beast. The ego masquerading as the divine. It is created by the war between men and women. Men are dominating, seeking vainglory. Women are manipulating, seeking vainglory. The two combine into a singularity that can properly be called the Devil. We will realize that we do not self-identify with this vulgarity, this worm behaving as if God, and we will conquer our flesh. We will then develop something like the mind of Christ. We do not have to hate each other, the one weaving the drama for the other, and the other being a character to resolve the drama for the one. The dramas are only woven because the author knows not "I." People will actually communicate, and not be mindless animated meat puppets desperately trying to mirror the "other." Us vs them, domination and manipulation, master and slave: this dynamic dissolves into ashes. The character shall resolve the drama in the grand play. The animal alphas, mindless vaginas and penises, these shall no longer have a lick of authority. The loving spiritual alphas will soar. Whatever details develop from this dynamic will be. Whatever branches grow from this seed will be. I certainly will it, but who cares? I'm just one of those who is not split down the middle in a society full of controlling, fearful schizophrenics. BTW, I am not disrespecting those of you labeled schizophrenics. I think at least you made the attempt to understand the schism.

Much love. If I must be bound by something, I choose love.

Zeitgeist Movement = most hardcore NWO propaganda ever.

Thanks for this wonderful thread.

I used to be one of their followers.

Even had their movie title on project I was writing in Greek for philosophy.

Glad, I realized it now before it was too late.

In this era, I have stopped getting suprise at how much BS you hear per day.

So I simply dont bother and keep on striving until I reach the end of the road.

Blah.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Let me ask again: How can it be transistioned in without tyranny?

This is the the 'resource economy' question (I would have said million dollar but um ya). I say tyranny would be needed to maintain it, but if it could be answered how to even implement it without tyranny or other undue human suffering we might have somewhere to go.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

The goal of the movement was to build an "experimental city."

Getting enough people interested in the movement and the concept of transhumanism, we could have whole groups of designers, architects, programmers...etc getting together to build the city.

Once people started getting involved and the city took off, the public could start to see the benefits of such a system.

We have a choice, the NWO opposes freedom, technology itself is not good nor bad, it is HOW WE USE IT THAT COUNTS. You can either use technology to free people, or to enslave them.

Like say the nanotechnology, you are afraid that proponents want to imbue themselves with technology to make themselves "immortal." Or at least to improve upon human abilities giving them an edge over us.

But what if everyone had that edge? What could they do then?

Nothing that we ourselves could not also do.

I want to work towards the good of everyone, not a select few...if I am endowed with technical capabilities to where I could survive without anyone's help...you can't take that from me. The NWO could not take that from me.

Think about the position that you are in right now, how much do you actually know about computers and the technical aspects of them? what if developers, or anyone technically savvy, got together and decided to take over right now?

Most of us would be screwed, because RIGHT NOW, you rely on technology so heavily but the majority of people do not have technical knowledge. So this opens the door to manipulation of people because of their ignorance.

If you educate people in all fields, instead of centering a person in one filed, you have muc more proficient people, that cannot be manipulated.