What if Christ failed his mission?

Originally posted by Israel Versus Iran
If he had failed his mission, then the world would be doomed to hell... but I'm glad you can see the funny side to it??? "

"

LOL Yea, because the world turned out A-OK thanks to Christian oppression!

The news talks nothing but how great the world is today thanks to Christ. lol

reply to post by sirnex


The world today is like it is BECAUSE Christ was/is ignored .


.... and glad to see you've changed your signature .

Well, how about you sit quietly and just trust your intuition on this one. My intuition tells me we have a soul, souls are a part of the creator. The souls that are down here at the moment are because God wanted to experience so He created, we as part of Him created.

Don't over think about whether He failed or not okay, unless you've got a time machine and you don't do you. You have a soul and your soul knows the truth, so don't trouble yourself with all this over thinking.

Originally posted by radarloveguy
reply to post by sirnex

 

The world today is like it is BECAUSE Christ was/is ignored .


.... and glad to see you've changed your signature .

I still love the character Satan from the fictional book the Bible. He speaketh nothing but truth to us, while God destroys all those he hates.

Regardless, I just don't see why the Jews would follow a false prophet anyways. Just because a false prophet speaks of good things doesn't mean you should follow him. God explicitly forbids it; But, like I said, there weren't any Christians back then. Even the Apostles of Jesus were Jewish.

reply to post by sirnex


I still love the character Satan from the fictional book the Bible. He speaketh nothing but truth to us, while God destroys all those he hates.

Regardless, I just don't see why the Jews would follow a false prophet anyways. Just because a false prophet speaks of good things doesn't mean you should follow him. God explicitly forbids it; But, like I said, there weren't any Christians back then. Even the Apostles of Jesus were Jewish.


..... - and God exists , but the Bible is fiction ?

... and a false prophet can perform miracles , and cast out evil ?

.... satan is responsible for ALL of the world's inhumanity ,

and the "mythical" God is about to fix that problem , permanently !

reply to post by radarloveguy

..... - and God exists , but the Bible is fiction ?

I don't believe in the biblical God either.

... and a false prophet can perform miracles , and cast out evil ?

You believe Jesus was the Messiah, but you don't believe in the Anti-Christ who is supposed to be just as good to mankind as Jesus was until the end times?

If one false prophet is believable, why not another one?

.... satan is responsible for ALL of the world's inhumanity ,

God is his own person, he doesn't have to commit genocide because Satan tricked a purposefully created naive people. I don't accept battered wive arguments that make the abuser look like the good guy. It is not your fault God kills, it is no Satan's fault God kills. If God kills, it is his own fault.

and the "mythical" God is about to fix that problem , permanently !

Oh wow, there is something to look forwards too. Glory through the end of the world! If that doesn't scream death cult, IDK what does...

Personally, I think everyone should convert to the Church of Reality where we're forced to be humble and honest and to make tomorrow better than today; Not to be good today only because we'll be rewarded after death. Poor saps.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by sirnex]

Originally posted by Texcin
IMO the Creator (God) does not need a human sacrifice. Kinda reminds me of the mayans sacrificing humans to satisfy their gods. So if Jesus wasnt sacrificed , I don't think it would of mattered.

Didn't the church kill all the heathens that practiced human sacrifice? Seems like a double standard to me.
No offence to the believers.

There is the notion that God is a celestial Shylock demanding His pound of flesh for the violation of His law...
...but this is just a misunderstanding of what God did in Jesus invented by the RC's and perpetuated by the Reformers.

God provided 'free will' which means anything can happen...
...and He provided a solution if it did.

The solution was to become a man within His own creation...
...and defeat death as a man...
...and offer this to all who believe in His solution.

There was no possibility of failure...
...God did not fail with Adam/Eve...it was man who failed...
...and God who graciously provided a solution.

Most of what you here about God is just 'bad press' from both Christians and non.

It doesnt matter what you believe in its how you live your life ppl. If you believe in anything out of fear of what will happen you will never LIVE your life. I think everyone should listen to that little voice inside them it wont steer you wrong. Maybe jesus was born fully awake in that way he was God.

reply to post by spacebot


I am Christian, But I will not stand and blindly believe everything written in the bible. Why? Becuase the bible was written by man. Despite divine inspiration and such else, A book written by imperfect beings cannot be perfect.

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


There seem to be a lot of very freaky people calling themselves Christians at this site, like the guy who claimed to be a believer but also stated that he felt no obligation to either follow Christ's teachings or his path. Isn't that exactly what a Christian is supposed to do? In my opinion you really aren't a Christian if all you do is show up to church on an occassional Sunday, claim to believe and drop a five-spot in the plate.

Nor do I see the point of an avowed Christian playing "what if" games with his faith. What if Christ were gay? What if Jesus had a peg leg so only half of him could walk on the water? What if he were allergic to frankenscense?? It's all kind of besides the point, isn't it?

Finally; re: no road back to heaven ...... it seems to me that, if you read between the lines in some of the Gospels, Jesus is hinting that what heaven really is is a place where people respect, love and care for one another, a place where people share what they have and make sure that everyone has what they really need. A place without a needy freakin' ego. Isn't that honestly the criteria that we will supposedly all be held up to on Judgement Day? Are you a person who is ready to make a heaven on the new earth, or are you just another self-centered greedy self-destructive S.O.B. who's attitudes and actions would only be a detriment to themselves and the rest of the population? Isn't Christian Judgement Day really a separating of responsible compasionate folk from childish and selfish freaks?

Here's a thought! What if Armageddon is all in our heads? What if the final battle and the return of Jesus is really a psychic struggle that divides the dicks from the saints, the punks from the adults, the users from the givers? What if Armageddon is the final revelation in our collective mind of who is really with humanity and who is really against humanity, and those against finally get what they deserve? and it ain't pretty.But it is justified.

OOOO baby, do you know what that's worth?
We'll make heaven a place on earth
they say in heaven love comes first
we'll make heaven a place on earth
Brenda Carlisle gets it

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine

Im referring more to the sense of God having a backup plan. Was christ the correction of the mistake in God's first plan?

Must have been, he screwed up with the first lot and they wouldn't listen decides he doesn't like what he himself the omniscient being created so kills every living thing apart from the odd few.

They all start again, but still won't do as their told even when he pops down, sometimes in the flesh to kick but.

So he then get's a new disguise as his own son and invents hell to see if that will fix his creation. Lo and behold they still wouldn't listen and killed him, he just can't seem to get his little experiment to work as he wants.

Just can't figure out why this omnipotent being couldn't sort his problem out when he was down here in the flesh the first time around.

Perhaps ywehejesus is the Bart god preparing for the cosmic science fair

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
reply to post by spacebot

 

I am Christian, But I will not stand and blindly believe everything written in the bible. Why? Becuase the bible was written by man. Despite divine inspiration and such else, A book written by imperfect beings cannot be perfect.

Then, with all due respect, Sir, you are actually no Christian at all. You cannot pick and choose which tenets and edicts of the faith you agree with and want to follow and still call yourself a Christian. Either you agree with the teachings of your church by at least 90 percent or you are an agnostic with Christian pretensions. Christiantiy is an ORGANIZED RELIGION and it has a very long list of beliefs that you must subscribe to in order to honestly call yourself a member of their flock. You cannot be "sorta Baptist". You cannot be "kinda Episcopalean". You either are or are not a devotee of your chosen faith or you are not. And there's no shame in either. Allow me to recommend Elaine Paigels books on the early history of the Church. They are eye-opening and I really think you could benefit from them.

Must have been, he screwed up with the first lot and they wouldn't listen decides he doesn't like what he himself the omniscient being created so kills every living thing apart from the odd few.

reply to post by moocowman


He didn't screw up. Adam did. Then came the first prophecy, the Sacred Secret, the coming Messiah. God intervened any time things really get out of hand and the ancestors of the Messiah were in danger.

So he then get's a new disguise as his own son and invents hell to see if that will fix his creation. Lo and behold they still wouldn't listen and killed him, he just can't seem to get his little experiment to work as he wants.

Jesus never claimed to be God Almighty, only God's son. Hell is a misconception. Actually Isaiah prophesied that the Messiah would die. You also missed the symbolism when Abraham was going to offer up Isaac (don't feel bad most people miss that one, It is a metaphor for God giving his son as a ransom for mankind).

Just can't figure out why this omnipotent being couldn't sort his problem out when he was down here in the flesh the first time around.

You need to actually read the Bible to understand that.

Perhaps ywehejesus is the Bart god preparing for the cosmic science fair

They already entered Their exhibit. It's called the universe.

Actually J.C. was plan B. Plan A was outlined in Lev 16: 18-22 (i.e., the two goat and a bull plan where the bull and goat one provide the blood offering and goat two becomes the "scape" goat and carries away the sin:

18 "Then he shall come out to the altar that is before the LORD and make atonement for it. He shall take some of the bull's blood and some of the goat's blood and put it on all the horns of the altar. 19 He shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times to cleanse it and to consecrate it from the uncleanness of the Israelites.

20 "When Aaron has finished making atonement for the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting and the altar, he shall bring forward the live goat. 21 He is to lay both hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites—all their sins—and put them on the goat's head. He shall send the goat away into the desert in the care of a man appointed for the task. 22 The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a solitary place; and the man shall release it in the desert.

reply to post by urwatu8

Actually J.C. was plan B. Plan A was outlined in Lev 16: 18-22 (i.e., the two goat and a bull plan where the bull and goat one provide the blood offering and goat two becomes the "scape" goat and carries away the sin:

Genesis 3:15 The seed of the woman (the Messiah) would be bruised in the heal. The serpent would be bruised in the head.

Animal sacrifice (atonement for sin) was practiced until the Messiah came. It was to be their best animal (Out of respect for God who would send His best, His only begotten son) Jesus fulfilled the law and became a ransom sacrifice not just for the Jews but for all men. That is why Christians do not perform animal sacrifice, it is obsolete. Isaiah 53: verse 3-12

[edit on 28-11-2009 by dusty1]

[edit on 28-11-2009 by dusty1]

What if Christ had died/been killed before he could sacrificed himself for every Christians sins?

I believe the penalty would've been paid.

In addition to the above question. If Christ had not died, Then would that mean there is no way back to haven?

There was always a way to heaven. Trusting in God to save you. The only difference now is that one must trust in Christ alone as opposed to just God in general.


So let me get this straight...because Christ died FOR our sins, now we have to shift our trust/love towards CHRIST as opposed to the ORIGINAL designer, and god...GOD...
wow...
so basically when LUCIFER did all this crazy #, hes the devil. But now when Christ died for our sins, we need to shift over, say FORGET ABOUT the original GOD, the CREATOR and "father" of christ...and believe in christ?
an eccentric man who died for what he believed in...
hmm..

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by Ghost in the Machine

 

What if Christ failed his mission?

There was no mission... no failure or success for His existence. Christ wasn't here to accomplish anything on behalf of God. He merely offered us a path to follow.

It is entirely up to us, as humans to apply our brains and then, free will, to act upon it. It is we who will fail or succeed... which is often troubling to those who prefer to place accountability for life somewhere other than on self.

The choice was not His. It is yours.

That makes no sense at all. The purpose of Christ was to give christians a path back to heaven by dying for them. If he had not died there would be no remission of sin. Therefore no one could be forgiven, Hence rendering everyone ineligible to return to heaven.

OK, i'm a little confused here as to your statement..above ..

The purpose of Christ was to give Christians a path back to heaven by dying for them

First, no one is automatically a 'Christian',

human beings that have a personal transformation within themselves after accepting the fact that they can no longer live their lives on their own and have asked and accepted Jesus as their LORD and SAVIOR.

Then they are a Christian..

Christ died to give ALL humanity a path back to the Father, Jesus didn't die for 'Christians' .. he died for all humanity, past, present and future.. .. Blood bought Christians ALWAYS have a path to the Father.. and unless you renouance him with all that is within you and your actions follow it..and point blank refuse to announce him publicly, only the Father will determine if the path remains open again ..

Can you plz clear up your statement a bit .. ?

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
What if Christ had died/been killed before he could sacrificed himself for every Christians sins?

In addition to the above question. If Christ had not died, Then would that mean there is no way back to haven?

I think we can all agree that God's plans do not always play out as they should. (Take Adam for example, and we all know how that went

).


And for the record I am Christian.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by Ghost in the Machine]

He did.

Wasn't Jesus told to spread the word of God to all man?

2000 odd years later and he still hasn't completed his mission.

I thought God was omnipotent?

reply to post by OZtracized


yes.. and just like always.. there are sins of OMISSION.. meaning .. humans still have the right to disobey because of free will..

Case in point, even a loving God can't MAKE his children obey just because he's OMI-*.. LOL.. you know kinda like human parents and their teenagers.. you can shout and screen untill your blue in the face .. but.. eventually.. they'll choose what they want .. right?

it's that's simple..

reply to post by godless


I see where your coming from. I believe if Im going to follow a faith, Then Im going to know all there is about it, even the dirty little secrets that most try to cover up. Most people tell me that I have "problems" just becuase I can ask questions that most "Christians" wouldnt. Even so, It does not change what I believe in.