What if Christ failed his mission?

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


This is theology 101. Jesus was both fully man and fully God. He was God incarnate. It doesn't have to make sense to our finite human minds. That's what's taught in Scripture; and Jesus' own word.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Forget it, Trying to keep track of everyones questions is tough enough.

reply to post by octotom

It doesn't have to make sense to our finite human minds.

Cant argue with that.

Though I still disagree with you on that part of, God and Christ being the same. It just raises too many questions.

Originally posted by Fromabove

OK, but the Messianic prophecies don't call for God being the Messiah and they never have. If Jesus is the true Messiah, then he can't be God incarnate. A prophecy is a prophecy and exist absolute as it is written and prophesied by God. The bible is the divine inspiration written by God through men, or so the story goes; Should we detract from his word and decide he was wrong and that the Messiah was really God despite Gods own word? Do we place our selves above God and call him a two faced lying bastard who got his own prophecies wrong and that we know his plan better than he does?

Are you above God?

I see the Bible as a very important resource/document but not necessarily as the full/only Word of God. The Bible was compiled by men - just as any prophesies stated or compiled by men. When two supposedly word-of-God 'documents' conflict it is obvious that at least one of them is wrong. One should never form their entire belief set from one "document" to the exclusion of all others - as God is all around us and within us and ultimately is the Authority.

That is the reason why a personal relationship with God - not from a book or tablet or whatever - is ultimately important. God is the only One who can give discernment of what is true.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by sirnex

 

The Messianic prophecies never called for the Messiah to be God incarnate, so this viewpoint is very very wrong, just ask any Jew.

That's up to interpretation. But, assuming your view, there is no Messianic prophecy saying that the Messiah wouldn't be God.

If I recall correctly and I'm comprehending Jewish websites properly concerning the Messiah, it states explicitly that the Messiah is of this Earth, not of God.

The question is mute, considering He didnt fail, and never was going to fail.

However, we would have been screwed... End of story...

Originally posted by sirnex

If I recall correctly and I'm comprehending Jewish websites properly concerning the Messiah, it states explicitly that the Messiah is of this Earth, not of God.

Do the Jewish believe that man (human beings) are of God?

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by sirnex

If I recall correctly and I'm comprehending Jewish websites properly concerning the Messiah, it states explicitly that the Messiah is of this Earth, not of God.

Do the Jewish believe that man (human beings) are of God?

Unless you can show scriptural evidence that God plays semantics games, the argument is meaningless.

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by sirnex

If I recall correctly and I'm comprehending Jewish websites properly concerning the Messiah, it states explicitly that the Messiah is of this Earth, not of God.

Do the Jewish believe that man (human beings) are of God?

Unless you can show scriptural evidence that God plays semantics games, the argument is meaningless.

I don't understand. My intentions are not to play semantics games... it was an honest question.

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by sirnex

If I recall correctly and I'm comprehending Jewish websites properly concerning the Messiah, it states explicitly that the Messiah is of this Earth, not of God.

Do the Jewish believe that man (human beings) are of God?

Unless you can show scriptural evidence that God plays semantics games, the argument is meaningless.

I don't understand. My intentions are not to play semantics games... it was an honest question.

Ah, my bad, I worded that wrongly, that might be where the misunderstanding is coming from. I meant that the prophecies and Jewish website don't speak of the messiah *being God incarnate*, not 'of God'. Sorry about that.

reply to post by sirnex


So they believe that our saviour would be a man? Are they democrats or something? Just kidding.... couldn't pass that one up...

I'll be back later... got some things to do... This thread has been very interesting, thanks OP. Lol, I hope I didn't kill it with that last comment of mine.

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
reply to post by sirnex

 

So they believe that our saviour would be a man? Are they democrats or something?

Just kidding.... couldn't pass that one up...

Well, if you base God's word on his true chosen one's as they wrote his word down for us, then yes. The Messiah was supposed to be a man, born of this Earth. He wasn't supposed to be God incarnate. The Messiah's job was to bring the House of Judah and Israel together, not to create a new religious following a hundred years after his death, which I think even that death is a tad bit controversial and debatable myself.

One has to remember, during Jesus' life, there was not a single Christian alive, he wasn't there for them. He was a Jew, not a Christian and not God. God has this thing against Idolatry. Don't worship Jesus, worship God.

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
What if Christ had died/been killed before he could sacrificed himself for every Christians sins?

In addition to the above question. If Christ had not died, Then would that mean there is no way back to haven?

I think we can all agree that God's plans do not always play out as they should. (Take Adam for example, and we all know how that went

).


And for the record I am Christian.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by Ghost in the Machine]

I doubt that you are a christian.

I show you a simple hypothesis.
It might come a time in our history that for reasons beyond our powers will be forced to a new religion. Imagine a highly advanced civilization, not human in origin, (it's a big universe out there) establishing in our little world a type of dominion. Certainly their obedients will also accept them as new religious rulers. They would probably appreciate this very much and even, why not, go out of their ways at least for a bit to help this thing getting started. Why not? If they could they should. It's probably fair game.

Now, imagine that nothing really protect us from such occurrences BUT our ability to make choices. Imagine that humans finally (that would be only thanks to the brightest and sharpest minds humanity has to offer) overcome and manage to throw this yoke and become free again from an unforeseen oppression. Well, I imagine that many of you simply don't want to have nothing to do with an idea that any such possible encounter would turn out to be not beneficial for us, but we may have to accept the possibility that it has as much chances happening as anything else, else we really chose to live in a fairytale where everything is fine and rosy.

What would be humanity's next steps towards religion after they have learned (the hard way) that us humans might be capable of many more things that we originally thought we were?

A human centric religion.
You already have that religion.
It won't go away, it may be diminished for a bit, but as I see it, unforeseen circumstances might bring it again in the forefront.
We have nothing better than this. Deal with it.

Life is all about choices.


So why do I feel that Christ haven't failed His Mission?
Probably because we haven't seen all circumstances unraveling themselves yet.

What if?

[edit on 28-11-2009 by spacebot]

Originally posted by The Alfer
That's a new one, Jesus on a mission from God? So what would happen if he failed, lets see:

- no Crusades in medieval times
- no Inquisition back then
- no Christian churches
- no Popes
- no controversies involving priests or ministers

I guess we'd all end up being Scientologists?

Noooooooooo!

Perhaps there is an alternative reality where this has happened?

Hey, I'm not knocking Christianity just coming up with some answer to your question.

I think you need to spell it out for christians, I.E. "the world a better place." if you stop believing in death cults and start making life better for everyone the world will be a better place, Not just a place your waiting to be destroyed.

Can anyone point me to a ATS like web site that is with out door knocking christians pests?.

As another poster said:

Jesus said something to the Pharisees one day to which Jesus replied, " Abraham rejoiced to see my day and saw it and was glad.." They responded to him, "You're not yet 40 years old and have you seen Abraham..?" And he replied, I tell you the truth that before Abraham was, I am.." Then they sought to kill him because he being a man made himself God.

The part that is interesting is "..before Abraham was, I am.." Jesus was clearly saying that he was present in the past as well as in the present. Therefore whatever God has said will happen will happen.

The only explanation about what Christ was, Is, apart from Son of God (which doesn't seem to make sense for some people) is the embodiment of a conscious Universe, in our form. Universe like God, never fails. Time and matter do not matter if you can create them and alter them at your whim. Universe its just there, existing. If He loves, if it loves us, it will probably show us ways to overcome the most harsh difficulties in any level of existence in order for us to survive. It may already done a great deal of showing us how to do this and yet the best lesson/s is yet to come. Not because we already have a predetermined place in the grand scheme of things, but like all things we can have a choice to be there someday and our choices is what matters from all things and God is all about fairness and balance in the Cosmos.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by spacebot]

Can anyone point me to a ATS like web site that is with out door knocking christians pests?.

You can always make yourself one.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by spacebot]

We do not know if his mission really has succeeded. How many people will be saved at last? Was his mission a succes if 30% of all people are saved or maybe if 60% is saved?

For me it would be a succes if somehow he managed to save 100% of all humans, at last he is a God isn't he? God's go for perfect results because they are perfect. So why be satisfied with saving only a small amount of people.

If I was God, I would go for maximum results. Maybe forgive people without bloody sacrifices.

If he had failed his mission, then the world would be doomed to hell... but I'm glad you can see the funny side to it??? ""

reply to post by octotom

Conflicting how? That Christ and God aren't the same?

John 10.30, Jesus speaking:

I and the Father are one.

But does Jesus mean he is equal to God? One in the same as God? There is plenty of evidence in the Bible to refute that.

John 17. verse 20-23 "Neither pray I for these alone but for them also which shall believe on me through their word. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus explains in this scripture what "oneness" means.

Jesus did not fail . He delivered a new covenant with man

that all who surrender to God's will , shall have eternal life.

... and we are not all Jewish or Muslim , so that's a pass .

..and 3 days after His physical death , He resurrected Himself .,

the only one who can . ... also the disciples were the first Christians

and they didn't fail either .