My only issue with any of this is...
Of all religions in general, pagans, devil worship, muslims, so on and etc..etc..
Out of all of them, the only one that has numorous individuals approaching me like used car salesmen is christians.
If you or anyone chooses a religion on his/her own beliefs, throughout research and personal beliefs, so be it.
But for some reason, most, not all, feel the need to push it on others or create, a debate, which is considerd by most christians a good thing, just
so as to bring the subject up, and being able to preach/quote vs's.
Fine your a christian, quite knocking on my door, bringing up debates like this and accept your PERSONAL beliefs, and keep them to yourself!
That is the reason for the many upset ppl that christians claim are calling them out, or attacking them..."their words"
They are not calling them out, attacking or denying christianity, just the way it is presented, by many, and the methods used to bring the subject up,
such as you have here, its like being a salesman is part of the oath.
We all have the ability to research, find our own paths and should never be condemned to hell, by another faith, for such research, and personal
decisions, made by that research!
Sorry for the rant, yes I live near a bible college and every year there is a new batch of holy rollin, jesus freaks, trying to beat down my door.
Do christians think I'm going to follow them out of hatred, for being persistant? Or that I have never read or researched the christian faith?
I not against them, just don't be so pushy, and make wild statements around childeren, that can't be proven!
Thats why this continues to be a debate..IT CAN'T BE PROVEN!
Its the same as argueing about UFO's...except with UFO's there is some proof, not just some fables, and a few things that can be said to be
true...they can't be proven!
Its up to the person, as to whether anything thats remotely mentioned in the bible, as to whether it can be substantiated.
Fuming Mad Christian, page 2
privacy
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 01:42 PM by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Doc Holiday
You're asking Christians to basically walk by a drowning individual without attempting to save them. "Love your neighbor as you love thyself" means that we should try just as hard to help save others from sin as we do to save ourselves.
I understand where you're coming from, but you also must understand where Christians are coming from.
You're asking Christians to basically walk by a drowning individual without attempting to save them. "Love your neighbor as you love thyself" means that we should try just as hard to help save others from sin as we do to save ourselves.
I understand where you're coming from, but you also must understand where Christians are coming from.
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 01:51 PM by Doc Holiday
reply to post by Agree2Disagree
See its the wording..........and manipualtion of the words.
No one is drowning!
You are not a superhero, or my savior, and if said savior will let me drown, then I chose another savior.
Or your chosing to recruit members that are past the point of reason and caring, and give them a warm meal place to stay, ...IF YOU join/follow and/or allow me to push my views on said person, if it was really, truely, honest help, it would be done without mention of christianity or jesus, and would not have strings attached!
Its like OMG he's drowning lets save him, and shove more stuff down his throat asking him to breath, quite he's already gasping for air.
[edit on 27-11-2009 by Doc Holiday]
See its the wording..........and manipualtion of the words.
No one is drowning!
You are not a superhero, or my savior, and if said savior will let me drown, then I chose another savior.
Or your chosing to recruit members that are past the point of reason and caring, and give them a warm meal place to stay, ...IF YOU join/follow and/or allow me to push my views on said person, if it was really, truely, honest help, it would be done without mention of christianity or jesus, and would not have strings attached!
Its like OMG he's drowning lets save him, and shove more stuff down his throat asking him to breath, quite he's already gasping for air.
[edit on 27-11-2009 by Doc Holiday]
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 01:55 PM by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Doc Holiday
You didn't at all take it metaphorically like I intended. However, I know that many people don't want to be helped. Fine by me. I can't impose my will on someone nor would I enjoy that. I was simply standing up for Christians and the things that they do that you cannot rationalise inside your mind.
You didn't at all take it metaphorically like I intended. However, I know that many people don't want to be helped. Fine by me. I can't impose my will on someone nor would I enjoy that. I was simply standing up for Christians and the things that they do that you cannot rationalise inside your mind.
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 01:59 PM by spikey
reply to post by oliveoil
Firstly...are you Ned Flanders?
Okely Dokely...
Secondly..did you actually manage to keep a straight face when you wrote "The H.E. double hokey sticks?
Firstly...are you Ned Flanders?
Okely Dokely...
Secondly..did you actually manage to keep a straight face when you wrote "The H.E. double hokey sticks?
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:01 PM by CHA0S
I have a problem with Christianity, as I do with most religions...here's a post I made on a topic pretty much exactly the same as this:
EDIT: Can you not see that religion causes more problems then it solves? Religion isn't necessary to feed and clothe the homeless...it isn't necessary to have religion if you want to believe a "God" exists and have hope...and it isn't necessary for anything except herding the mindless masses like sheep and making profit...you can't deny it...it's one of the worlds largest business "entities"...
[edit on 27/11/09 by CHA0S]
Originally posted by CHA0S
Here's my view on this subject:
Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by ljib777
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding.
Wow...just wow...now we can't even think for ourselves...I'll refer to some recent posts of mine...
Religion: Usually informing it's followers that everything in the universe (including humans) was created by a God of some description, it relieves followers of the need to ask questions about reality, history and our origins. It totally strips you of any chance at independent thought, Christianity for example, a whole freaking book that dictates how you should live your entire life...was written by man, not a God...I'm not saying God(s) don't exist, or even that they didn't create us or the universe, just that no book on Earth contains the will of such an entity if one does exist...enough said.
All religions are different and full of lies about reality, sure, some of the stories my be good life lessons, but it's still the work of man, and a lot of the time, it's just plain bad advice. We don't REALLY know if the universe was created by a God, or if Gods(s) really exist. It's silly to accept everything you are told without evidence. Now you don't have to ask questions at all. Seemingly, some great book has answered everything for you. You now know where you came from and how you got here, you don't really have to ask questions about reality. You now know what's right and wrong. How can you accept all this and be content with it? It's an insult to independent thought.
In my eyes, religion takes us on a road in the completely opposite direction to where we should be headed. We shouldn't be reading a whole bunch of crap, accepting it as truth, and throw our questions out the window, we should be denying ignorance, we should be seeking real truth and answers, we should be asking questions (with totally open minds), and we should be doing it all without being mentally enslaved and manipulated by reality overlords. If any God(s) do exist, this is the way in which we will be able to know and feel it's existence.
Another good point:
most of you Christians have stated that we shouldn't take every word the bible says literally...and because it is a translation/interpretation from another language, which is probably an interpretation/translation from yet another language...how can we trust any of it? Assuming it was the work of God in the first place...how do we know man hasn't edited and changed it do his desire over time? How can we really know what to take as truth? How do we know what sections aren't the words of God? It's a guessing game...and I'm not for it...I don't need a book to tell me how to be a good person...I don't need the fear of hell or the desire for Heaven to help me be a better person...I don't need to be a good person so a God is happy with me...I am a good person without religion in my life...basically what I'm saying is...there is no point...we don't really know how the universe works...if a God exists...if we go to Heaven...etc...we really don't know...and you can't trust that bible to give you those answers...we need to decide for our selves...we need to do our own thinking...that way we might get some where...and maybe one day discover the truth...get some real answers...
Just to make it clear...I am not Atheist...nor am I religious...
it's just as arrogant to say God doesn't exist, as it is to say he does exist IMO...so I just go about my life, being the best person I can...and that's all I can do...if God does exist...I just hope that's enough to get into Heaven...or at least avoid Hell...
EDIT: Can you not see that religion causes more problems then it solves? Religion isn't necessary to feed and clothe the homeless...it isn't necessary to have religion if you want to believe a "God" exists and have hope...and it isn't necessary for anything except herding the mindless masses like sheep and making profit...you can't deny it...it's one of the worlds largest business "entities"...
[edit on 27/11/09 by CHA0S]
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:02 PM by andy1033
reply to post by Doc Holiday
The simple reason why christians want to push it on to others, is because christianity is the only religion based on the human heart.
All the pagan religions see humans as scum mainly.
The simple reason why christians want to push it on to others, is because christianity is the only religion based on the human heart.
All the pagan religions see humans as scum mainly.
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:04 PM by Doc Holiday
reply to post by Agree2Disagree
Then do it because of, who you are, and what christianty made you.
Don't do it to promote your faith, thats why I get upset, in general christians can't selflessly help someone out without brining up jesus or church or that the reason they are helping is gods will.
Fine let gods will be your reason, there is no reason to say that the help offered is only due to your being a christian, many ppl that are not christians help others and feel no reason to say..."I did this to help you in the name of odin" and would you be interested in coming to the sermon of the new moon, at our next pagan outing, everyone is really nice and they would all be willing to help new members.
Sound familiar?
Then do it because of, who you are, and what christianty made you.
Don't do it to promote your faith, thats why I get upset, in general christians can't selflessly help someone out without brining up jesus or church or that the reason they are helping is gods will.
Fine let gods will be your reason, there is no reason to say that the help offered is only due to your being a christian, many ppl that are not christians help others and feel no reason to say..."I did this to help you in the name of odin" and would you be interested in coming to the sermon of the new moon, at our next pagan outing, everyone is really nice and they would all be willing to help new members.
Sound familiar?
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:05 PM by Doc Holiday
reply to post by andy1033
That is christianities way too...
Any religion that is not theirs, is pagan..thats not true, only in christian beliefs.
That is christianities way too...
Any religion that is not theirs, is pagan..thats not true, only in christian beliefs.
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:07 PM by octotom
reply to post by oliveoil
You shouldn't get too upset about people and there pushes against Christianity. It's something expected. As Christians, we need to rise above all of that and strive to show Christ's love to the world; trying to shatter the mold that Christians are supposed to fit and giving a defense for the hope that is in us.
You shouldn't get too upset about people and there pushes against Christianity. It's something expected. As Christians, we need to rise above all of that and strive to show Christ's love to the world; trying to shatter the mold that Christians are supposed to fit and giving a defense for the hope that is in us.
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:10 PM by octotom
reply to post by ghaleon12
The disagreement arrives when discussing non-essential, peripheral issues. With the essential issues, there is a pretty much complete agreement. Unfortunately, as you've pointed out, many Christians squabble over the non-essentials. I hope that changes soon.
reply to post by gemineye
I'm glad that you, seemingly, were able to get out of that [ultra-extreme] fundamentalism. It does no one or thing any good.
reply to post by jitter
I read once before that any quote from the Founding Fathers must be taken with a grain of salt, pertaining to the religiousness of America, as there are quotes from all of them going different directions.
reply to post by VitalOverdose
Remember: Not all of those proclaiming Christ really are his.
[edit on 11/27/2009 by octotom]
But there are indeed many different beliefs and interpretations within Christianity.
The disagreement arrives when discussing non-essential, peripheral issues. With the essential issues, there is a pretty much complete agreement. Unfortunately, as you've pointed out, many Christians squabble over the non-essentials. I hope that changes soon.
reply to post by gemineye
I'm glad that you, seemingly, were able to get out of that [ultra-extreme] fundamentalism. It does no one or thing any good.
reply to post by jitter
I read once before that any quote from the Founding Fathers must be taken with a grain of salt, pertaining to the religiousness of America, as there are quotes from all of them going different directions.
reply to post by VitalOverdose
Remember: Not all of those proclaiming Christ really are his.
[edit on 11/27/2009 by octotom]
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:12 PM by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Doc Holiday
I completely understand where you're coming from don't get me wrong. I don't completely agree with the way Christians go about things, but I WILL stand up for them.
The most common denomination that does the door-to-door proclamation of faith and salvation are the JW's. It is customary for their church to do so. It's like when I was in Iraq. It was customary for them to greet people by hugging and really bursting that "bubble of personal space" that so many Americans reserve. I didn't feel comfortable nor did I think it was appropriate that they do that. However, I went with it because of my understanding and general tolerance.
Sometimes you can't be so selfish as to want everything to revolve around you and/or people like you.
I completely understand where you're coming from don't get me wrong. I don't completely agree with the way Christians go about things, but I WILL stand up for them.
The most common denomination that does the door-to-door proclamation of faith and salvation are the JW's. It is customary for their church to do so. It's like when I was in Iraq. It was customary for them to greet people by hugging and really bursting that "bubble of personal space" that so many Americans reserve. I didn't feel comfortable nor did I think it was appropriate that they do that. However, I went with it because of my understanding and general tolerance.
Sometimes you can't be so selfish as to want everything to revolve around you and/or people like you.
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:16 PM by notreallyalive
Originally posted by oliveoil
I am addressing everyone and anyone who has problem against Christians.
First off when you say Christians, Who the H. E. double hockey sticks are you referring to?
There are over twenty two denominations and or sects and they are not all the same.
There are actually 38,000 different denomiations of Christianity according to About.com and other sources 38,000 denominations. Since Christianity has no real meaning, because spirituality comes from our choices and our minds, I generally refer to Christians as those who call themselves that.
Second, What is your big problem anyway? Is it that we have faith and believe in Christ?
Is it that we Cloth the poor? Feed the Hungry? Comfort the sick?Help the homeless?
(Whens the last time you did that?)
Or maybe its because of our close ties to Judaism and Israel.
My problem with Christianity and other organized Religions is that it's one group saying "I'm right and you're wrong." which causes a GREAT DEAL of war and other social problems in our world.
FACT: America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.
America was purportedly founded on Freedom of Religion and freedom from prosecution. In reality it was more likely an economic investment by the powers that be.
Our national motto is IN GOD WE TRUST for crying out loud,Which in my opinion is undeniable PROOF that the United States government acknowledges that the God of the Christian Bible exists.
If you have a problem with Christians you have a problem with America. And God knows America does not need anymore problems. So please, just CHILL OUT !!
I believe the United States motto is actually E Pluribus Unum which means "Many are One" meaning, given your logic, YOU should be the one to chill out, accept your brothers and sisters, and stop being so self-righteous!
[edit on 27-11-2009 by notreallyalive]
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:17 PM by gemineye
reply to post by Agree2Disagree
I think the best way for a Christian to help others is to just be a good example. If you're a nice person and treat people well, others are going to notice. If you're generous and caring and just there when people need you, that can be all the "witnessing" people need. There's nothing wrong with inviting people to church, but just leave it at that. The second someone starts getting all preachy and implying that I'm a sinner, there's no way in this world that I'm going to be convinced to go to their church. I don't mean "you" in particular... I'm just talking about people in general.
I've been to hundreds of churches, from the smallest of the back woods, one room churches, to the biggest of the churches run by those tv evangelists and one thing I've noticed about them all is that they preach and preach and preach about everything that is wrong with the world. It's like they push you to look down on everybody. Why would anyone want to be a part of that? They preach about how bad everybody is what everyone is doing wrong and then wonder why you don't want to join their church. I'm not directing this at you, A2D... it's just a rant, lol.
But, my point is, if God is love, why are these churches preaching so much hate? We see enough of what's wrong with the world on tv and online, etc. We don't need to go to church to be reminded of it. Church is supposed to be uplifting and joyous... not a reminder of what's wrong with the world. End of rant, lol.
I think that most people mean well when they invite people to church, but the second you make them feel as if you are better than they are (by implying that they're "drowning" or whatever and you're the high and mighty one there to save them) you've already turned them against you and Christianity in general.
[edit on 11/27/2009 by gemineye]
I think the best way for a Christian to help others is to just be a good example. If you're a nice person and treat people well, others are going to notice. If you're generous and caring and just there when people need you, that can be all the "witnessing" people need. There's nothing wrong with inviting people to church, but just leave it at that. The second someone starts getting all preachy and implying that I'm a sinner, there's no way in this world that I'm going to be convinced to go to their church. I don't mean "you" in particular... I'm just talking about people in general.
I've been to hundreds of churches, from the smallest of the back woods, one room churches, to the biggest of the churches run by those tv evangelists and one thing I've noticed about them all is that they preach and preach and preach about everything that is wrong with the world. It's like they push you to look down on everybody. Why would anyone want to be a part of that? They preach about how bad everybody is what everyone is doing wrong and then wonder why you don't want to join their church. I'm not directing this at you, A2D... it's just a rant, lol.
But, my point is, if God is love, why are these churches preaching so much hate? We see enough of what's wrong with the world on tv and online, etc. We don't need to go to church to be reminded of it. Church is supposed to be uplifting and joyous... not a reminder of what's wrong with the world. End of rant, lol.
I think that most people mean well when they invite people to church, but the second you make them feel as if you are better than they are (by implying that they're "drowning" or whatever and you're the high and mighty one there to save them) you've already turned them against you and Christianity in general.
[edit on 11/27/2009 by gemineye]
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:24 PM by CHA0S
reply to post by Odessy
Very good post...there are a few other good ones to...but I don't have time to read through them all...I think it's time to get some sleep...
See you space cowboy...
Very good post...there are a few other good ones to...but I don't have time to read through them all...I think it's time to get some sleep...
See you space cowboy...
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:29 PM by Doc Holiday
reply to post by Agree2Disagree
No this is BBC
I'm sure you heard of it, was your time over seas a pilgramig? sp?
Or salesman in training as the locals call it here.
I have no quarrels with the faith, just the pushing and non-stop debate and argueing about being so devine.
If it is, THE religion, let it happen, I can't believe that all the millions of ppl that are just un-knowing of your faith is going to hell, if it is so devine and true why must it be taught? Should it not come naturally?
Don't reply, to that I have heard 100's of answers, just stating my opinion.
And yes our nation was founded by christians, why?
Because in that time, if you chose not to follow christianity, you were punished, tortured, and/or killed in the name of _____.
Why make yourself out to be better than any other religion or person?
By selling/pushing it on other religions, such as the native americans, among the many....that could be mentioned....by doing that it is saying that they are wrong you are right, and/or better, for already knowing..
All I am getting at is it is and should be a personal thing/decision, not something that is followed because of being pushed by salesmen, TV evangelists, and the likes.
No this is BBC
I'm sure you heard of it, was your time over seas a pilgramig? sp?
Or salesman in training as the locals call it here.
I have no quarrels with the faith, just the pushing and non-stop debate and argueing about being so devine.
If it is, THE religion, let it happen, I can't believe that all the millions of ppl that are just un-knowing of your faith is going to hell, if it is so devine and true why must it be taught? Should it not come naturally?
Don't reply, to that I have heard 100's of answers, just stating my opinion.
And yes our nation was founded by christians, why?
Because in that time, if you chose not to follow christianity, you were punished, tortured, and/or killed in the name of _____.
Why make yourself out to be better than any other religion or person?
By selling/pushing it on other religions, such as the native americans, among the many....that could be mentioned....by doing that it is saying that they are wrong you are right, and/or better, for already knowing..
All I am getting at is it is and should be a personal thing/decision, not something that is followed because of being pushed by salesmen, TV evangelists, and the likes.
reply posted on 27-11-2009 @ 02:30 PM by octotom
reply to post by Odessy
You should do some searches on YouTube and other places about these issues. There are plenty of refutations about these ideas, especially those concerning Jesus.
No. Israel was enslaved quite a many years before. Rome never enslaved the Jews. They just occupied the Jewish lands.
Ninety-nine percent of the missionaries don't do bad things or force people into Christianity. They humbly do their work and show Christ's love to a people, who often willingly choose to come to Christianity. Why let the one percent of missionaries (who often have ulterior motives) ruin the whole pot?
No, it's not as simple as that. If you don't accept Christ, you choose to go to hell. It has nothing to do with you agreeing with the Christian or not.
Well, yes. If you don't agree with that then you don't agree with the Christian Bible because it is written in there.
Christians don't teach that. It was part of the Law. Christ set us free from the Law.
Not really. The rest of the Bible had a purpose. And that purpose is clear when you take the Bible as a whole.
One has to be careful with spiritual revelations. One never knows if it is truly from God or not. That is why most of Christendom doesn't practice such things.
Noah is Gilgamesh. Jesus is Horus from Egypt, and Dionyses from Rome...
You should do some searches on YouTube and other places about these issues. There are plenty of refutations about these ideas, especially those concerning Jesus.
oh wait a min... wern't the jews enslaved by both egypt and the Roman Empire a little before and around the time of Jesus??? hmmmm.... I wonder how that could have happened...
No. Israel was enslaved quite a many years before. Rome never enslaved the Jews. They just occupied the Jewish lands.
in fact, they dont even try and pass it off, they force it down peoples throat with missionaries (which were just slaughter houses in the past). What happened to acting so peaceful that people actually seek out what spiritual knowledge you have, rather than being forced it?
Ninety-nine percent of the missionaries don't do bad things or force people into Christianity. They humbly do their work and show Christ's love to a people, who often willingly choose to come to Christianity. Why let the one percent of missionaries (who often have ulterior motives) ruin the whole pot?
To take it a step further, if you don't agree with them, your going to hell,
No, it's not as simple as that. If you don't accept Christ, you choose to go to hell. It has nothing to do with you agreeing with the Christian or not.
and if you don't agree with that, well, you don't believe in the christian bible cause its written right there...
Well, yes. If you don't agree with that then you don't agree with the Christian Bible because it is written in there.
along with killing homosexuals and other sinners...
Christians don't teach that. It was part of the Law. Christ set us free from the Law.
but the rest of the bible pretty much contradicts everything good he says.
Not really. The rest of the Bible had a purpose. And that purpose is clear when you take the Bible as a whole.
But, low and behold, some christians have spiritual revelations... well... people from all religions have spiritual revelations, so what could that mean? Surely if only one religion was right, God would favor that religion more than the others, right?
One has to be careful with spiritual revelations. One never knows if it is truly from God or not. That is why most of Christendom doesn't practice such things.
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