Fuming Mad Christian

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by whaaa

 

Because Youtube is notorious for those with an agenda to put up any kind of garbage they think will get viewers. Very much like this thread on ATS.

While there are of course people with an agenda on YouTube (from both sides of the argument usually) there are those that don't. One's just gotta separate the wheat from the chaff.

And that may be but when it comes to research I would much rather delve into a printed page than some kid with a Flip camcorder and imovie on a mac. It's just a personal preference. You do what you want.

Originally posted by SeeingBlue
Ask any waiter at a restaurant open on Sundays and they'll tell you the rudest customers are the church crowd, and I live in the bible belt buckle.

I was a waiter for a few years - we used to say "10% to God leaves 5% for the waiter!"

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


The motto first appeared in 1814 in what would eventually become the national anthem.

"And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the Star Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

The motto has been in continuous use since 1909(one-cent coin) and 1916(ten-cent coin).

The height of the cold-war only instituted the motto onto paper money.

www.religioustolerance.org...

I don't understand where it says its the christian god, maybe it meant, a pagan god, or egyptian god, who knows ....most beliefs besides no-belief has a god, so it should not be considered christian, imho.

reply to post by Doc Holiday


It's not christian. In fact, it doesn't support any religion.

"Aronow v. United States," 432 F.2d 242 (1970) in the United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit The court ruled that:
"It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise."

"Madalyn Murray O'Hair, et al. v. W. Michael Blumenthal, Secretary of Treasury, et al." 588 F.2d 1144 (1979) in the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. Ms. O'Hair is (in)famous for successfully challenging compulsory prayer in U.S. public schools. The United States District Court, Western District of Texas, referring to the wording of the Ninth Circuit above, ruled that:
"From this it is easy to deduce that the Court concluded that the primary purpose of the slogan was secular; it served as secular ceremonial purpose in the obviously secular function of providing a medium of exchange. As such it is equally clear that the use of the motto on the currency or otherwise does not have a primary effect of advancing religion."

This ruling was sustained by the Fifth Circuit court. 1

The Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc. conducted a national survey which showed that "In God We Trust" was regarded as religious by an overwhelming percentage of U.S. citizens. They initiated a lawsuit on 1994-JUN-8 in Denver CO to have it removed from U.S. paper currency and coins. They also wanted it to be discontinued as the national motto. Their lawsuit was dismissed by the district Court without trial, on the grounds that "In God We Trust" is not a religious phrase! The Tenth-Circuit federal judge confirmed the dismissal, stating in part:
"...we find that a reasonable observer, aware of the purpose, context, and history of the phrase 'In God we trust,' would not consider its use or its reproduction on U.S. currency to be an endorsement of religion." 5

The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review all of these rulings. It might be embarrassing to them, because the motto also hangs on the wall at the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has commented in passing on the motto saying that:

"

This post was part of a special Halloween Homage to Orson Wells.
Jumping out from behind the server and shouting BOO!

ur previous opinions have considered in dicta the motto and the pledge [of allegiance], characterizing them as consistent with the proposition that government may not communicate an endorsement of religious belief." Allegheny, 492 U.S.

www.religioustolerance.org...

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Ty we agree..........

But I admit your a little more energetic about research than myself!

reply to post by Doc Holiday


Well, I just don't like having to repeat myself so I put all the info out there first go around.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Yes, it "appeared" before 1956 taken from the last verse of the national anthem but was not a national motto until an official act of Congress in 1956. So the OP's claim that In God We Trust being our national motto proves we're a Christian nation is still invalid.

Edit to Add: I agree with your above post, the slogan does not outright support Christianity and therefore is definitely not proof this is a Christian nation like the OP claims.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by Titen-Sxull]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


If you read my posts, I am not on the side that represents our nation as a Christian-nation. In fact, I'm of the belief that our current motto has never represented religion.

However, the Union were the first to use "In God We Trust" as a true motto. This was in 1837. However, it required another act to enable to be added. The motto was accepted in 1837, but wasn't added until later.

Originally posted by oliveoil
I am addressing everyone and anyone who has problem against Christians.
First off when you say Christians, Who the H. E. double hockey sticks are you referring to?
There are over twenty two denominations and or sects and they are not all the same.

Second, What is your big problem anyway? Is it that we have faith and believe in Christ?
Is it that we Cloth the poor? Feed the Hungry? Comfort the sick?Help the homeless?
(Whens the last time you did that?)

Or maybe its because of our close ties to Judaism and Israel.

FACT: America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.

Our national motto is IN GOD WE TRUST for crying out loud,Which in my opinion is undeniable PROOF that the United States government acknowledges that the God of the Christian Bible exists.

If you have a problem with Christians you have a problem with America. And God knows America does not need anymore problems. So please, just CHILL OUT !!

Mods:please feel free to post where you think appropriate.

Oliveoil, your Christian strength is in your patience. While Jesus got upset it was at other believers for selling forgiveness in the house of God. When people slam your belief in Christ, know that they hated Christ in the same way. When you display open anger at people that slam your Christianity, you become like those you anguish over. It's not worth it. Instead, always be ready to give an answer for why you believe in Christ and the hope that is within you. They may never believe, but at least you are still telling them the Gospel which is what Christ is all about. Repentance, forgiveness, and salvation. So be patient and you'll be at peace.

reply to post by Fromabove


I completely agree. Jesus said "Know that they hated me before they hated you."

Originally posted by Fromabove

Originally posted by oliveoil
I am addressing everyone and anyone who has problem against Christians.
First off when you say Christians, Who the H. E. double hockey sticks are you referring to?
There are over twenty two denominations and or sects and they are not all the same.

Second, What is your big problem anyway? Is it that we have faith and believe in Christ?
Is it that we Cloth the poor? Feed the Hungry? Comfort the sick?Help the homeless?
(Whens the last time you did that?)

Or maybe its because of our close ties to Judaism and Israel.

FACT: America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.

Our national motto is IN GOD WE TRUST for crying out loud,Which in my opinion is undeniable PROOF that the United States government acknowledges that the God of the Christian Bible exists.

If you have a problem with Christians you have a problem with America. And God knows America does not need anymore problems. So please, just CHILL OUT !!

Mods:please feel free to post where you think appropriate.

Oliveoil, your Christian strength is in your patience. While Jesus got upset it was at other believers for selling forgiveness in the house of God. When people slam your belief in Christ, know that they hated Christ in the same way. When you display open anger at people that slam your Christianity, you become like those you anguish over. It's not worth it. Instead, always be ready to give an answer for why you believe in Christ and the hope that is within you. They may never believe, but at least you are still telling them the Gospel which is what Christ is all about. Repentance, forgiveness, and salvation. So be patient and you'll be at peace.

While I don't believe in everything you two may, it doesn't change the fact that we all have our beliefs tested.

reply to post by oliveoil


The meek will inherit the earth ,


but not before they win the fight !


satan has a firm grip on the lost , - nothing that can't be undone !

reply to post by gemineye


Fantastic post! You hit the nail on the head! It definitely reminded me of my own situation too...

I was raised in a very Christian home (Anglican) and my parents are still faithful to their church. However, it was definitely far more laid back in terms of traditions and such! I've since strayed from 'the path', but the same thing happened to me: I've got a far more personal relationship with God than I ever had. I spent my time questioning the Christian belief more than following it.

However, there's no way I can say I have regrets for being raised as such... it's made me the person I am today and I'm more than thankful my parents gave me the childhood I had. My parents are just like the other Christians that were at that church: Genuine, loving, caring, non-judgemental, just positive people all around. No one can ever knock them for having such genuine happiness. Even now when I see the people I went to church with, they welcome me back with open-arms!

These are NOT the people that are giving Christianity a bad name... IMO, the problem (as it is with ALL religions) is with the fundamentalists... the one's that just take it too far, with their 'holier than thou' attitude. Admittedly, NO one likes to be told what to do or think, which is why these fundamentalists are never appreciated... accept by others like them.

reply to post by oliveoil

Our national motto is IN GOD WE TRUST for crying out loud,Which in my opinion is undeniable PROOF that the United States government acknowledges that the God of the Christian Bible exists.

It's statements like this that make you guys look so bad. "God" automatically mean "christian" to you. You appear to have no understanding of how the rest of the world perceives things. You don't even appear to understand that your "christian bible" is the "jewish bible" with a few chapters tacked onto the end.

People who have little understanding, and are insistent about spreading that little understadning can be unpleasant. And dangerous.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


reply to post by ~Lucidity

look to yourself first when people react to you, and unfortunately sometimes to a group you either belong to or empathize with. in my experience i've found that no one really cares what you believe in until you begin to infringe on what they believe in. if you want to believe in christ, fine. believe in him. but why do you (not you specifically, although you have been pretty in my face here) have remind me constantly that you do? i don't care. and eventually you will annoy me and i will react in a way that you then turn into me hating christians when it's you i take issue with. make sense?

You are indeed correct.However, you are wrong that I or Christians in general are In Your Face so to speak about believing in God. I am Just dumbfounded that MY God could make such wonderful intelligent creatures that are spiritually IGNORANT.

are you really implying that no one but christians help the homeless? it's pretty ignorant if you are, isn't it? it's also yet another example of you getting in my face belligerently.

No However ,I have asked a simple question to the non believers.You might want to reread my post.

and again. a christian country? last i checked there were all sorts of people who were citizens of this nations. to me it appears that YOU have a problem with THEM. and you might want to do a bit of research about who the founders were and what they stood for and what freedom from religion is before ranting about this again. i'm sure many people will help you that in this topic

You seem rather intelligent, but you are no history buff.

as to the point where there are 22 (or whatever) sects...so? what are you really saying here? that one christian sect is different than another? and if so, could some of your examples (were there any?) apply to some of what you might be the more radical or evangelistic sects and maybe not yours? is that what you're saying?

They are All different however, they are all adherents of Christ.

again, unfortunately this is what happens when people hear or say things that they maybe take to personally, tending to overgeneralize.

It is very personal.This is one of the problems today . No one takes things serious.

overall, i'd say your OP is unintentionally an almost perfect example of the very thing you appear to be pretending to rant about. frankly, to me, you sound like the intolerant one.

Thank you for such a negative reply.

By the way Eleanor Roosevelt ...HUGE Christian

Originally posted by Koka
reply to post by oliveoil

 

I don't have a problem with Christians, I have a problem with anyone who believes in god, basically, people of faith, so that's all denominations and pretty much all faiths.

Although I am willing to tolerate, which is 'generally' something people of faith tend to find a little harder to do.


[edit on 27-11-2009 by Koka]

SO TRUE!

I have known some decent people who labeled themselves Christians over the years. In fact, a good number of wonderful people. That being said, most of the people I've met in person (and maybe 99% of the ones in the media) are Christians ala carte. They pick and choose what limited parts of their religious texts to follow and use the "grace" of Christ and the good old "we are all sinners" to justify their own bad behaviors while condemning those who aren't "saved" ...

I'm tolerant of other people -> believe whatever you want as long as you don't try to limit my freedom with your beliefs. Solve the world financial crisis -> tax the churches.

reply to post by LordBucket

It's statements like this that make you guys look so bad. "God" automatically mean "christian" to you.

This is a Christian Country. Founded by Christians with Christian values.

Please do your homework!

Originally posted by oliveoil


This is a Christian Country. Founded by Christians with Christian values.

Please do your homework!

Deists at best.

Please do yours.

Also, you say MY god, not OUR god. That doesn't sound very inclusive.

So the Westboro Baptists are adherents of Christ as well?

If America is an example of Christian values then I am very glad that I am not a Christian.

Just because I am an atheist doesn't mean I have no empathy for others, don't clothe them or feed them. Perhaps it is because of the various religions that we have to do this?

You don't really come across as much of a history buff either, to tell the truth. It's rather like you have a cross to grind.

Originally posted by Abbby
reply to post by oliveoil

 

I have a problem with any person who looks down on me and scolds me while telling me how great they are, yet their actions prove otherwise. More often than not, they just so happen to be Christians (and really drive the point home that they are.....go figure).

Here your using the word Christian to loosely. Who were these bad people claiming to be Christian?