Fuming Mad Christian

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
Look, religion has persecuted and hindered science, science now is taking it's turn in persecuting religion by proposing all sorts of "evidence" that is used in a backlash to refute the existence of a Creator.

A2D

I agree with your latter statement, but any so called "scientist" that tries to disprove any kind of god is out to lunch. You cannot prove something with no empirical proof doesn't exist. And how exactly is science persecuting religion? Give me a break.

reply to post by DisappearCompletely


It's evident in all these posts created by athiests who rely on SCIENTIFIC means that science is persecuting religion. A lot of athiests fall back on physics, astronomy, biology, and even geology to refute the bible and any other religious doctrines.

edit to add: Just accept that some people have faith and use your scientific knowledge for better purposes.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by DisappearCompletely

 

It's evident in all these posts created by athiests who rely on SCIENTIFIC means that science is persecuting religion. A lot of athiests fall back on physics, astronomy, biology, and even geology to refute the bible and any other religious doctrines.

edit to add: Just accept that some people have faith and use your scientific knowledge for better purposes.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

What you're describing are armchair scientists that try to use science for some twisted agenda. Again, you cannot prove that something doesn't exist when it doesn't have any empirical evidence to begin with. And how exactly are christians being persecuted by science? I could be wrong, but i don't generally see physicists or chemists inflicting violence on someone because they read the bible or any other such dogma. At least they aren't burning you at stakes, crucifying you, or executing you in any other creative way simply because of your beliefs. Christians really need to get over themselves and develop some humility.

en.wikipedia.org... Check out the blood section. This has been going on for years and if you research the blood it has been scientificly studied and has been declared as real blood. again the blood is old and solid, but when you place the vile next the bones of the dead januarius it becomes liquid again. not to mention bleeding statues stigmata and other unknown things

Originally posted by DisappearCompletely

What you're describing are armchair scientists that try to use science for some twisted agenda. Again, you cannot prove that something doesn't exist when it doesn't have any empirical evidence to begin with. And how exactly are christians being persecuted by science? I could be wrong, but i don't generally see physicists or chemists inflicting violence on someone because they read the bible or any other such dogma. At least they aren't burning you at stakes, crucifying you, or executing you in any other creative way simply because of your beliefs. Christians really need to get over themselves and develop some humility.

I didn't mean persecution as in 16th century persecution. I meant it as a persecution of personal faith. Every day I am ridiculed by someone using "logic and scientific means". They say that I'm living a lie because I have faith in something that can't be proven scientifically. They say I'm moronic, misguided, indoctrinated, hypocritical, and all these other very critical adjectives.

Who cares if they are armchair scientists? Just as all Christians don't persecute and condemn those without faith, neither do all scientists persecute all Christians/other faiths. It's still equal in my book. It doesn't negate the fact that science IS being used in a violent assault against my faith.

Look at me and see me for what I am, not for what I believe in.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


I disagree,

moving past the atoms that make up our bodies, to particles, then quanta, we exist as energy. Our building blocks are energy, but at the macro level we are confused by a material existence, when the reality is our substance is held together by the strongest forces in the universe...

The universe can be descibed in terms of mathematics... Even deterministic.... However, in the end of the day, it is your choice to question.. But the strong nuclear force that binds you into your shape, then allows you to reach your own answers, could not have evolved...

We are irreducebly complex.

To quote Yoda "we are luminous beings"

And the physical laws we all adhear too are designed.... How can physics evolve? It would have had to be already in place just for one single particle that made up the whole to culminate into us... Are we then just part of a program that the story of is being played out? Prophecy?

Originally posted by Selahobed
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

I disagree,

moving past the atoms that make up our bodies, to particles, then quanta, we exist as energy. Our building blocks are energy, but at the macro level we are confused by a material existence, when the reality is our substance is held together by the strongest forces in the universe...

The universe can be descibed in terms of mathematics... Even deterministic.... However, in the end of the day, it is your choice to question.. But the strong nuclear force that binds you into your shape, then allows you to reach your own answers, could not have evolved...

We are irreducebly complex.

To quote Yoda "we are luminous beings"

And the physical laws we all adhear too are designed.... How can physics evolve? It would have had to be already in place just for one single particle that made up the whole to culminate into us... Are we then just part of a program that the story of is being played out? Prophecy?

Isn't their a mathmatical equation that propagates that everything in the universe has a number. it's physics. beyond that resounce vibration. sp?

There are a variety of Christian posters who diss-miss Evolution, Science and the natural law on this planet.

They want you to question and abandon your curious mind only to pick up their Bible, as they have been programed...

DO NOT SUCCOMB TO THEIR IRRATIONAL RANTS.

Why? Because you are a human being and have a choice... YOUR CHOICE! They would rather see the world full of CC's or Christian Cones that take marching orders from the Corporation.

So if you feel a rat evolved into a Christian preacher... go on believin! Folks are evolving out of the dark ages, where Christian thugs ruled the land.

The internet has also put ah ARSE WHOOP on their agenda, cause it educates. They can't go to the Amazon and play God anymore because even the Head shrinkers have wireless to their plans.

HEADSHRINKER - "Hey, Google says the cross carriers murdered all our brothers in a place called North America... get the pots started.."

I my opinion they are no better than communism because of their burning desire for a one-faith world... A one faith world with an controling Anglo Saxon agenda. This was their driving motive for centuries, so don't think for one second they have changed.

I can understand their anger.... NOBODY likes to lose their faith. Attendence has drooped to an all time low. America has become a melting pot of diversity and folks are frankly tired of bowing to a white face on a cross.


[edit on 28-11-2009 by Level X]

reply to post by Selahobed

A lot of pastors wives i have noticed are their to look pretty, push out babies and their needs and wants are nearly always sidelined by the hubbies...

Exactly! I knew a few preachers who truly respected and appreciated their wives, but honestly, those were few and far between.

My ex sister-in-law married a pastor. The night before the wedding, at the rehearsal dinner, she was crying her eyes out because her soon-to-be husband had been praying and asking for a sign from God that marrying her was the right thing to do. He hadn't received the "sign" so he wasn't sure he was going to go through with it. Never mind that he felt "led by God" to ask her to marry him, but actually going through with it was a whole different story. When she arrived at the church the next day, she still didn't know if he would be there. He showed up and they went through with it, but it was horrible and to this day, I think he's nuts. There was one time that she went to get her hair trimmed and the stylist took a little bit too much off and her husband freaked out and wouldn't allow her to sing or do anything in church until her hair grew out because he was worried about what people would think of him having a wife with "short" hair. It was longer than shoulder length, but he thought it was an abomination. *eye roll* She is a beautiful lady, but now she dresses the way he wants her to, wears her hair the way he wants her to and pretty much does whatever he wants her to. She works outside the home so he can stay home and "focus on church." What he does is take the kids to a sitter and watches tv or goes hunting until she gets home. I saw far too many things like this. Honestly, I could probably write pages and pages about the craziness I saw. So many people preached and preached about how everyone needs to "wake up," but the majority of them are the ones who need an awakening.

As for me, I really don't see myself as amazing. I think I'm just a girl who learned the hard way how to use her brain, lol!

[edit on 11/28/2009 by gemineye]

reply to post by Selahobed


I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're getting at.

Do you mean to say that you disagree that science is being used to refute my faith? Don't get me wrong, a lot of science does coincide with my belief system however, that doesn't take away from the fact that when someone is refuting faith, they fall back on the many branches of science.

Historical documentation(accuracy-dates×), evoltuionary psychology(explaining our art, humor, play, love, poetry, sense of adventure, love of stories, our music, our morality, and our religion in terms of evolutionary origin and history), methodological naturalism(to use the words of Hugo Grotius - in doing science one must proceed "as if God is not given"), nonviable offspring resulting in incest from Adam & Eve, virgin births, etc etc.


"Many features of religion, such as the nature of supernatural agents and their relationships with humans can be explained as adaptations designed to enable human groups to function as adaptive units" (Wilson 2002, p. 51)

This is science refuting religion....

So if there isnt a relentless assault on my faith, then why do people say this kind of stuff and back their statements with science?

[edit on 28-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
I didn't mean persecution as in 16th century persecution. I meant it as a persecution of personal faith. Every day I am ridiculed by someone using "logic and scientific means". They say that I'm living a lie because I have faith in something that can't be proven scientifically. They say I'm moronic, misguided, indoctrinated, hypocritical, and all these other very critical adjectives.

Who cares if they are armchair scientists? Just as all Christians don't persecute and condemn those without faith, neither do all scientists persecute all Christians/other faiths. It's still equal in my book. It doesn't negate the fact that science IS being used in a violent assault against my faith.

Look at me and see me for what I am, not for what I believe in.

And? For the same scientist, there are many more religious fundamentalists preaching damnation and heresy towards science. Do you complain about every single person that holds a different opinion on reality than you? christianity has had a strong influence on society over the last 2000 years, take, and now you're all whining on a message board because the big bad scientists disagree with your beliefs? It's quite sad really.

Look, nowhere in my post did I mention anything about the founding Fathers, the Constitution, the Declaration,The bill of rights or any other document which says or doesnt say the County was founded on Christian.

What I said was, America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.

All Im asking is to look at who founded America.

And if you want to use the people who enacted these documents so be it.
They were Christians.

If anyone can prove this wrong please by all means do so.

back to bed nitynite

reply to post by oliveoil


FACT: America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.


sorry to bust your bubble.. but.. keep your religion out of our government.. you can worship as you please but..

The Treaty of Tripoli usually refers to the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripoli, otherwise known in English as the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary. The treaty was signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796 and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797, finally receiving ratification from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by President John Adams on June 10, 1797.

Treaty of Tripoli Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

So as you can see the Founding Fathers were for the most part all still alive at this time. No one opposed this statement in this international document..

And on another note.. here is a list of just how many different types of "Christianity" are known today...

List of Christian denominations

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

With that being recognized you can see how anyone who would read the New Testament would wonder how a message could get so fractured & twisted..... so called "Christian's" can not agree with a supposed simple message of peace & love amongst themselves & act otherwise.. Yet I can not cast blame on them because shouldn't his name be Immanuel? was he born in a "manger"? or a cave? there are many contradictions contained with in the compalation known as the "Helios Biblos" Heli=sun Biblos=paper

So if your going to be fuming ... fume at the fact that we were all duped by a myth built upon a myth about the sun put in place by an elitist higher educated ruling class for the purposes of control... That btw was done hundred's of years ago.. when you could not read the books. just told. There are those of us who went to Christian Schools.. then read other books..

Also ..why don't you just do some quick math in your head & add up all the income (IE: 10% tithe weekly.. nowhere in the New Testament is tithing commanded, urged, or suggested) & land owned by the "church" & see if it even slightly compares to the so called charity.. it does not, has not & will never be anything thing else but for show.. millions coming in & your bragging about 2nd hand clothes... I personally help out alot of my fellow humans..

On another note..what ties to Judaism are you talking about? "Jesus was a magician and a fool. Mary was an adulteress". (Shabbath 104b, p.504) according to Rabbinical Judaism's sacred book the Talmud all non-Jews.. are lower even than the common cow......your buddies believe that you are lower than a common beast! also that your soulless!! btw what about the others? 12 tribes

I've got nothing against that Jesus guy. He had some great things to say & was killed for it..

John 10:34 "Ye are gods"

now there's an overlooked message..

reply to post by DisappearCompletely


You're completely missing my point. I'm saying there's no need to whine. WE NEED TO GET OVER OURSELVES BOTH SCIENTIFICALLY AND RELIGIOUSLY.

Shake hands and AGREE2DISAGREE.

reply to post by reeferman


Oh brother cant you see what I just wrote. zzzzzzzzzzz

reply to post by Jordan River


The fact that mathematics exists to predict an outcome is proof of design.. That is determinism, where our sentience can be determined.

Determinism is a key factor WROTE into the very fabric of time and space. E.g. i have a ball in my pocket, from which i can say i will throw in a specific direction at a specific time...

Me being held together by strong nuclear forces, held to a gravitational field; breathing in oxygen that transfers energy in my closed system from one place to another, and one form to another!!

Not just us, but the very sunset you sit in awe of....... Accidental?

Make up your own mind, howver you live in a universe that is geared to that soul task.... Think about it..... There is no way that in our deterministic universe... from simplistic views of life cycles (birth, marriage, death) we still have idividuals DETERMANING their life, even though our quantum make up would have us being an already written story,,

[edit on 073030p://f17Saturday by Selahobed]

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by reeferman

 

Oh brother cant you see what I just wrote. zzzzzzzzzzz

You said that the USA was founded on christian values and is a christian country and he provided you with a treaty specifically stating the opposite. What else do you really need?

reply to post by oliveoil


1. Mainly Evangelicals.

2. Evangelicals are some of the most disturbed people I've seen, and will go to any lengths to make you believe what they do. And if they can't they will hate you, and try to make you miserable. Many branches however are mild, and respectful, while they will try to convert you.. they won't go to great lengths that you begin to hate them.

Our national motto is not, "In God We Trust." this is something that is on the dollar bill which was designed by a private institution.

Myth: America is a christian nation.

FACT: The United States of America is a nation with many religions and beliefs among it's body. Get over it. Just because the popular religion was Christianity, does not make us a christian nation.


People spouting this is what compels the anger towards Christianity. If you say America is for christians only, then you know what that means? YOU'RE FORCING YOUR BELIEFS ON ME. And the first amendment guarantees that the state will not observe a law which favors or rejects a religion. In other words, we have a freedom of religion.

No where, in the Constitution does it let alone mention, or even favor Jesus Christ. If someone badgers you for your religion, try to help them understand your beliefs. Maybe they will change. But please do not attempt to force your beliefs on to others.

Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by oliveoil

 

FACT: America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.


sorry to bust your bubbld by the "church" & see if it even slightly compares to the so called charity.. it does not, has not & will never be anything thing else but for show.. millions coming in & your bragging about 2nd hand clothes... I personally help out alot of my fellow humans..

On another note..what ties to Judaism are you talking about? "Jesus was a magician and a fool. Mary was an adulteress". (Shabbath 104b, p.504) according to Rabbinical Judaism's sacred book the Talmud all non-Jews.. are lower even than the common cow......your buddies believe that you are lower than a common beast! also that your soulless!! btw what about the others? 12 tribes

I've got nothing against that Jesus guy. He had some great things to say & was killed for it..

John 10:34 "Ye are gods"

now there's an overlooked message..

silly man. that text on jesus was made in order to keep the Jewish community intacked. many people were converting into christians so the jewish community devised a plan to make the talmud. Sorry to say that to you but they did that to scare jews away from christianity. On top of that america was founded on christianity. Sorry to say that to you but Washington was a christian.

reply to post by Selahobed


Thank you for your correction, what is your view on the notion of our thoughts creating our reality, or as kwai Gon Jin put it " remember young padawan your focus determines your reality ".

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this if you have any, type slowly if you do , because the subject messes withmy swed.