Irish Church accused of abuse cover-up

Originally posted by blueorder
As for what went on before- there was no state/protestant church (which one!) cover of abuse like this

that's what they used to say in the south
you're kidding yourself my friend, these cover ups seem to dwell under every rock that's lifted, if you can't see it, it's because you're unwilling to lift the rocks.

Originally posted by blueorder
What I mean is the collusion with the state- thankfully that wouldn't apply in those examples as the RC CHurch was not embedded in the state as it was in the free state/ROI

so you think that state collusion and acceptance of abuse is acceptable if the church doesn't have a line in the constitution? all those states supported and helped various churches and societies that abused children on an institutional scale.

[edit on 27/11/09 by pieman]

Originally posted by Selahobed
What is not commonly known is the paramilitaries involvement with providing young children to be abused. The INLA did this and so did some elements from protestant paramilitaries, providing young children for the pleasure of some high profile people..... It was never about religion in ni, and still isnt.. They (paramilitaries) are just gangsters and thugs who hold their own communities to ransom through intimidation. Mannn, you cant even try to get on by setting your own business up without those morons wanting their cut-protection money.

There is no way i would let my kids have anything to do with the catholic church, it has been proven time and time again that you cannot guarantee their safety with those people

I am from NI myself so am well aware of what the paramilitaries are capable of- though it still isn't on the scale of state/RC church collusion here

Originally posted by pieman

that's what they used to say in the south

you're kidding yourself my friend, these cover ups seem to dwell under every rock that's lifted, if you can't see it, it's because you're unwilling to lift the rocks.

You misunderstand- there are a myriad of protestant churches, not one, and there was no comparison with the embedded nature of the RC Church and ROI state- that is my point

Could a protestant church have paedos- for sure, any institution can have them- what we are talking about is a combined Church Hierarchy/State cover up- that is not applicable in NI

reply to post by blueorder


so you're saying there was no link between protestantism in NI and the governance of the province? this is what i'm talking about, it's not helpful.

you clearly have no compassionate interest in this story, all you want to do is make it one more reason to hate the other side. this is not about you or your hatred. you're hate is a sickness.

Originally posted by pieman
so you're saying there was no link between protestantism in NI and the governance of the province? this is what i'm talking about, it's not helpful.

you clearly have no compassionate interest in this story, all you want to do is make it one more reason to hate the other side. this is not about you or your hatred. you're hate is a sickness.

I've done talking with such a maniac who invents points of view for people- I will responsd to sane people, and leave you to drivel on about imaginary hate

reply to post by blueorder


Yes i agree... Its a problem not only confined to Ireland as a whole, but it seem that these disgusting people have been perpertrating these vile acts from inception on a global scale, and their attempts of cover up are indicitive of how vile and corrupt this institution is.

Like its says in Revelation:

"And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her (the church), my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities."




I served in NI, and lived their too for 11 years, and am unfortunately very aware of those thugs too.

Originally posted by blueorder
I've done talking with such a maniac who invents points of view for people- I will responsd to sane people, and leave you to drivel on about imaginary hate

sorry, perhaps i'm making assumptions i shouldn't. i appologise, this subject, invariably, makes me angry and a bit irrational.

i think what annoys me most is that a lot of people seem inclined to blame only the church or the government for this stuff, especially in ireland. they seem to be happy to point the finger away from themselves but the truth is, the dogs in the street had a good idea what was going on.

internationally, people seem to think it's something that went on "over there", somewhere else. it isn't, it happened everywhere. every government allowed these things to happen because it was easier than dealing with the problem and every society watched this stuff happening and thought "out of sight, out of mind", or worse.

the whole of society at the time, regardless of creed or nationality, covered up child abuse, trying to convince themselves and everybody else that it didn't happen. until we recognise that as a fact, these scumbags will continue to get away with this.

I have known people who have been abused as a child. My ex was one, and I did everything I could to help her deal with it.

A spade must be called a spade - when it comes down to it, Christian Kiddy Fiddling is CHILD RAPE, justified by a bronze-age superstition.

I would be quite happy to burn a few churches, they hold no value to society and take up valuable space. It's not as if I'm RAPING kiddies now is it? I refuse to tone down my words for your Christian sensibilities - it is that precise act which has allowed CHILD RAPE to go ignored for so long.

You can defend religion all you like. You can try and defend Catholic or Protestant Christianity all you like - both have hidden large quantities of rapists. But know this - as Jim Jefferies said....

"You have every right to hold those beliefs, but please just admit that you're WRONG!"

Australians always seem to say it like it is.

Christians make me sick. (I went to a deeply religious Christian faith school, so I know ALL about it.)

The Para.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by william76

 

Would you not like to have the opportunity of challenging the, head of the Catholic Church over these abuses?

I for one would like to, in open public.

It is the same with every religion, weither islam, judiasm, christianity, there will be abuses and coverups! Should it be allowed, the ANSWER NO!

Missplet christinaity sorry!!

[edit on 26-11-2009 by Laurauk]

laura i, and indeed most people would like the opportunity to challenge the people in high power. not only in religion but in politics too. however there is a ring of security around all of these people wherever they go. normal people are not allowed to question these people because they know their actions at times are undefendable.

reply to post by Parallex


How sad that you do not have the ability to humble yourself a little bit when dealing with such a delicate issue. If you read my last reply to you, you will see that I simply asked you to refrain from using a term that could offend some victims of abuse.

Again you refuse... and re-use the word as if this is the way to prove how macho you are and to reinforce your own self belief of being a stand up straight talking guy.

In fact all you have done is made yourself look very immature.

I pity you and shall not be responding to anymore of your posts until you show some maturity and humbleness.

It is true what pieman said to you earlier... If you are not careful your hatred will devour you. I truly hope you can work it out. Good luck.

reply to post by Muckster


Spoken like a true fundie. Congratulations!

The Para.

This is not about divisions of faiths weither it be prodestant or catholic.

This is about, thoose priests whom served under the Cathoic Churche's Authority, during the times they carried out these ABUSES!!

If I read right, it was not just the Govenrment of Ireland, whom knew about this, The UK Govenrment knew also, plus the Vatican.I would ask why, try and cover this up?

They whom too upon themselves to abuse children have gotten away, with it, no amount of money can replace the abuse, those children went through, for years.

reply to post by Selahobed


The powers that be in the church would like us to believe that the responsibility for these acts lies strictly with a few pervert priests, but really the problem is endemic to organized religion.

From a business model standpoint it is the *image* of moral authority that brings in the money. That is why this latest disclosure is so important. The general public gets a glimpse into the mind of the Pope and his chain of command.

The priorities were "maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its assets", a cold calculated business model. The Archdiocese of Dublin even took out insurance in 1987 to cover future compensation claims and lawsuits related to sexual abuse allegations.

The church uses this superficial imagery of the "moral high ground" to attract the masses to their pile of dung.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by Circle
The Pope needs to go to Ireland and make a public apology to the victims of abuse; the Church and the people. Nothing less than this will do.

That's like sending an arsonist to help put out a fire.
Don't forget the Pope "Obstructed justice" in child sex abuse cases.

Ok then after his done the apology, arrest him.

more and more cathloic `priests` around the entire planet are being `outed` for child rape - institutional and embedded (and some would say supported) child rape - it wouldn`t be a surprise to find out that the same sickening things still occur - inside vatican city .

An ex member of the Hitler Youth and former cardinal of the RCC was responsible for implementing the practice of covering up and putting pressure on the victims of abuse.
The document is called Crimen sollicitationis and a copy of it can be found here

It dealt with various crimes of solicitation by priests etc and was used extensively as a guide to protect the church.

Blame was attached to the victim as well as the perpetrator, and victims were coerced into keeping quiet.

The cardinal who was one of the people resonsible for this is now known as Pope Benedict XVI.

So to those who say there are only isolated instances of abuse, I say this - If such were the case, why would this document be in existence. let alone be sent to every church, in every parish, with instructions that it be kept locked in a safe?

Is it a case of "just in case we have a paedo or 2 in that parish"?

It's a cover up - always has been, and even now, only about 10% of the truth is coming out.