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Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red
You do also realize that they didnt include inflation in that number ... they said the cost grew greater than inflation but make no mention of the statistics being put against each other....
Number 2 It could happen tomorrow... when people stop being able to afford it then they dont buy it ... so as the price gets more rediculous the amount of members of a policy decreases... meaning every dollar that it increases you will always see a decrease in policy holders. and as policy holders decrease the more they charge, see a cycle there? you should
not to mention with the decreased earnings potential of people during a time of recession... as well as those who are unemployed... were talking quite a bit of decrease
simple as that
Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red
yes becuase your sooo over the partisan crap... you should look at your quote section. The point is guy your taking estimates and citing them as fact estimates are just that... guesses
and for the record i never said things will get drastically better...
You say the whole gdp will be consumed in 71 years by healthcare
I said thats impossible as no one is going to spend everything on healthcare
You say when is it going to get better
I said it could happen tomorrow, it all depends on how many consumers cannot afford to pay the premium.
[edit on 9-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]
Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red
well i will agree that reform must happen it certainly is not now with this bill, there are plenty of other ways to bring down insurance costs... limiting malpractice claims, preventive care... Government run healthcare = disaster
CBO now estimates that implementing a typical package of tort reform proposals nationwide would reduce total U.S. health care spending by about 0.5 percent (about $11 billion in 2009). That figure is the sum of a direct reduction in spending of 0.2 percent from lower medical liability premiums and an additional indirect reduction of 0.3 percent from slightly less utilization of health care services. (Those estimates take into account the fact that because many states have already implemented some of the changes in the package, a significant fraction of the potential cost savings has already been realized.)
Enacting a typical set of proposals would reduce federal budget deficits by roughly $54 billion over the next 10 years, according to estimates by CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee of Taxation. That figure includes savings of roughly $41 billion from Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, and the Federal Employees Health Benefits program, as well as an increase in tax revenues of roughly $13 billion from a reduction in private health care costs that would lead to higher taxable wages.
But that’s not the end of the savings, either. A 0.5% reduction in health-care costs would mean $11 billion in savings per year overall, with roughly 40% of that benefiting the federal government in Medicare and other federal program costs. That amounts to a whopping $110 billion in cost savings over ten years to the entire medical industry, which would help keep premiums in check for consumers.
America
6,000 hospitals in 50 states plus District of Columbia
Total Healthcare Expenditure: $ 2,260 billion
Total Population: 303,824,640
Largest healthcare market in the World.
Originally posted by Janky Red
I simply did math and projected it into the future and you are ATTACKING mathematics?
Its sad day when you attack people for trying to illuminate something, using the basic components of logic, I showed you numbers and you treat them like magic tricks. Even if the projection is only ten percent accurate, or TRILLIONS OFF, the cost is incredible and outrageous.
If you were not intoxicated by the ideological opiate, you would not lash out like a
spoilt ape.
" number don't count if they are ugly "
... like it or not we are screwed anyway you slice it, keep your head in the sand.
Your ignorance towards the gravity of the situation compounds the problem we face
[edit on 9-11-2009 by Janky Red]
[edit on 9-11-2009 by Janky Red]
Originally posted by nenothtu
Originally posted by Janky Red
Relax. I'm not "attacking" anything. I'm simply pointing out that if one puts garbage IN to any equation, one gets garbage back out. The numbers are unsustainable, and lead to a preposterous conclusion, hence there is an input error. The world will implode LONG before EVERYTHING we make is put in to health care, much less before astronomical figure we don't make are.
Logic leads to logical conclusions, not illogical ones like above. Hence, there is a definite flaw in your "logic". Your idea of "magic tricks" is highly applicable, with a caveat: misleading figures are not commonly termed "magic".
"Intoxicated by the ideological opiate"? "Spoiled ape"? WHO is on the attack? "Ideological opiate"... you get that straight out of Marx?
Numbers don't count if they are ugly? Wrong. Ugly numbers count. Ridiculously inflated ones don't. They are only used for propaganda purposes, to scare the uninitiated.
Don't include me in your "we". I don't play the insurance lotto, and will not be forced into it by you or anyone else, congress (or is that the Secretariat these days?) included.
The only "grave situation" we have is all these people looking for a problem to apply their "final solution" to.
I think it is pointless to discuss with you, you did not even try to do the calculation yourself, you take the lazy mans path... My numbers are fine and I suspect you
wouldn't look at them if they were burned into your forehead.
Can you wrap your head around this?
You make ten dollars and hour and can expect an 8% raise each year
first year $10.80
second year $11.88
third year $12.83
SAME EQUATION AS THIS-
One decade from now the current rate of $15,000 a year to cover a family of four
Year - 2019
+ 131% increase as is the trend
= $34,650
Two decades
Year - 2029
+131% increase as is the trend
= $80,041
Three decades
Year - 2039
+131% increase as is the trend
= $184,894
Four decades
Year - 2049
+131% increase as is the trend
$427,105
Five decades
Year - 2059
+131% increase as is the trend
$986,612
In re reading your post it is evident you are here to be a parrot and pay homage to your corporate masters. God would fail trying to bestow a shred of common sense upon you
[edit on 9-11-2009 by Janky Red]
Madame Pelosi, in an unmitigated confession of her contempt for the citzenry of the United States of America, aka, We The People, described this as "We got one Republican vote, so that, in my opinion, makes it bi-partisan."
Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red
Lol man i was offering you a way out of the argument if you want to keep going then.... Did you know with the government option you will be forced to have all current vaccinations including the swine flu vaccination? Did you know that in the healthcare bill they dont account for inflation in the tax brackets? Did you know that every federal agency will know exactly what your medical report says? did you know that under the new health bill you will no longer be able to claim privacy on medical records if you have the public option?
You just uncovered a whole new can of worms Janky (im a communist) Red?
Thats funny because your name has red in it ... get it? of course you dont ... silly idealist ... go figure a liberal doesnt know where money comes from (sarcasm)
its even more funny becuase you offer false "guesses" to what the insurance companies "might do" in the future.
Parrot.
[edit on 9-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]
Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red
Damn jank trying to be mean to a guy who thought you were commenting on him rather than myself... that's low bud.... quit being a loser... Cant you see your addiction to meaningless words from TPTB is keeping you from making friends...
I absolutely call intervention.
Originally posted by Janky Red
I think it is pointless to discuss with you, you did not even try to do the calculation yourself, you take the lazy mans path... My numbers are fine and I suspect you
wouldn't look at them if they were burned into your forehead.
Can you wrap your head around this?
You make ten dollars and hour and can expect an 8% raise each year
first year $10.80
second year $11.88
third year $12.83
SAME EQUATION AS THIS-
(mathematical magic truncated for brevity)
In re reading your post it is evident you are here to be a parrot and pay homage to your corporate masters. God would fail trying to bestow a shred of common sense upon you
Originally posted by nenothtu
Originally posted by Janky Red
I think it is pointless to discuss with you, you did not even try to do the calculation yourself, you take the lazy mans path... My numbers are fine and I suspect you
wouldn't look at them if they were burned into your forehead.
It probably is pointless. I'm not led astray that easily. Your "numbers" are based on an assumptive initial input, with an assumptive progression in the course of the math. I can use the same methodology to "prove" that 30 years from now, the US will be a smoking crater populated by irradiated spanish-speaking zombies. All I have to do is create the proper assumptive input, and "do the math".
Remember, in any decent statistics course, you will be told that, mathematically speaking, there are lies, there are DAMN lies, and then there are statisitics. In that order.
Can you wrap your head around this?
You make ten dollars and hour and can expect an 8% raise each year
first year $10.80
second year $11.88
third year $12.83
Your initial assumption there is that I work for someone else, who will in turn give me raises.
Error.
Your next assumption is that those raises WILL be 8%.
Error.
I think we can see where this leads.
SAME EQUATION AS THIS-
(mathematical magic truncated for brevity)
Exactly.
In re reading your post it is evident you are here to be a parrot and pay homage to your corporate masters. God would fail trying to bestow a shred of common sense upon you
Parrot. You think that one up all by yourself? Please point out what I have "parroted", and from whom, and I'll happily retract it.
MY "corporate masters"? I have no such. Neither will I allow YOUR corporate masters to force me into this government-run insurance lottery scam. Neither by force, nor by subterfuge and fear as you are attempting to do.
I think for myself, and more's the pity when anyone tries to pull the wool over my eyes as you have. They ALWAYS react poorly when called on it. You provide an excellent example.
My common sense is just fine, thank you. I can't help it if you don't like independent thought. One thing for sure, I thank the God you mention that I'm not infected with the brand of "common sense" that would allow me to fall for your mathematical parlor tricks.
Originally posted by Janky Red
He came at me first, didn't take three minutes to do the Math (like someone else)
and is a big boy now.
Wake up and be for your country men for once, not the big men whole make the world turn.
Originally posted by Janky Red
No actually Janky refers to Beyond disgusting and Red refers to the color of Yer party GOPer and no I can't see Russia from my house Red.
Its funny, I can smell neocons much better then you can smell socialists.
A like a perfect little neocon drone you refuse to think about your country.
Time and time again put your head in the sand and spit out your guidelines.
I know what the insurance companies are going to do - they are going to
rape this country further. Sadly you and your mates don't get a badge or a discount
on your future premiums for selling out your country. The fact that you guys are to lazy
to do the math for yourself is no surprise, Neocons love the elite...
Originally posted by Janky Red
Mathematic parlor tricks
and yes you are astray
Yes, I assumed that you would get a raise for brevity and to assist in your PROVEN lack of self initiative in discussion.
you did NOT disprove that healthcare is raising 131% every ten years -
you did not disprove this math (or if you did, LET ME SEE!)
I showed you the equation, it is elementary, not magic.
....
You guys are WEAK - enjoy your new corporate masters
Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red
"he came at you first"? that selective reading thing again huh... hey its cool man play em how you see em comrade.
Ah whats in a name huh jank? Well you put it out there first ... lemme throw some of your quotes down...
"No actually Janky refers to Beyond disgusting and Red refers to the color of Yer party GOPer and no I can't see Russia from my house Red."
from your last post right?
"My entire point is to underscore how big this problem is going to get, my equation represents the ROAD we are on, my hopes are that you and everyone else will look past the ideology party crap and look at the numbers. I only hope everyone can see
something needs to happen - I am not suggesting what that something is, cause I don't know how to fix it."
thats from another of your posts... underline....for....emphasis....
So you are really arent past the "party" crap yourself. Sounds like sweet hypocrisy.
You throw alot of "math"... you say you do "billing" all day. tell me then how do you compound interest yearly?
after that wiki how you detract how the amount of "inflation" of any given year affects the dollars power.
Even after that ... whats the name of the medical form your employer gives out so that you can receive health care under their plan.
Past that even what is the form you sign to send to the IRS about your yearly income....
Dude you claim alot of things that have yet to be proven, Say whatever you want... but i know who you are... a minor who lives under mommy and daddy's health plan. Someone who only parrots the words of those who have say in your best interests.
Why do you think people should listen to you? Your a self-righteous braggart.
[edit on 9-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]