Health Care- Now(Passed)

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red

 

You do also realize that they didnt include inflation in that number ... they said the cost grew greater than inflation but make no mention of the statistics being put against each other....

Number 2 It could happen tomorrow... when people stop being able to afford it then they dont buy it ... so as the price gets more rediculous the amount of members of a policy decreases... meaning every dollar that it increases you will always see a decrease in policy holders. and as policy holders decrease the more they charge, see a cycle there? you should

not to mention with the decreased earnings potential of people during a time of recession... as well as those who are unemployed... were talking quite a bit of decrease

simple as that

1. Yes my number did not include inflation - if it did the number would MUCH larger.
MENTION which statistic being put forth is wrong in todays money - point it out.
I am forecasting based on trend - did the 8% raise concept go over your head?
Once again...

THE SAME equation I used-


If you make ten dollars and hour and can expect an 8% raise each year

first year $10.80

second year $11.88

third year $12.83

Do you refute the mathematical truth of the above even if it does not include inflation?


2. I see - so at what point do people say enough of this??? This increase has been happening for decades - I have only included this last decade because that is the data provided by the Kaiser Foundation. You ASSUME this trend is going to GET
drastically better and you are right people will NOT be able to afford it. Up until that
point a large portion of the GDP is going to HC and it will ruin us sure as taxes.

Maybe you removed it from your post

And one estimate says that if costs continue on their current trajectory, premiums will go up another 166% in the decade ahead.
The data was collected by the Kaiser Family Foundation

This point says I am UNDERESTIMATING the costs based on todays inflation rate.

My entire point is to underscore how big this problem is going to get, my equation represents the ROAD we are on, my hopes are that YOU and everyone else will look past the ideology party crap and look at the numbers. I only hope everyone can see
something needs to happen - I am not suggesting what that something is, cause I don't know how to fix it.

if my numbers the 90% off we are still screwed, totally so.






[edit on 9-11-2009 by Janky Red]

I come into this discussion late, so if this has already been noticed, I ask your temperance.
Madame Pelosi, in an unmitigated confession of her contempt for the citzenry of the United States of America, aka, We The People, described this as "We got one Republican vote, so that, in my opinion, makes it bi-partisan."
So wrong on so many levels.

reply to post by Janky Red


yes becuase your sooo over the partisan crap... you should look at your quote section. The point is guy your taking estimates and citing them as fact estimates are just that... guesses

and for the record i never said things will get drastically better...

You say the whole gdp will be consumed in 71 years by healthcare

I said thats impossible as no one is going to spend everything on healthcare

You say when is it going to get better

I said it could happen tomorrow, it all depends on how many consumers cannot afford to pay the premium.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red

 

yes becuase your sooo over the partisan crap... you should look at your quote section. The point is guy your taking estimates and citing them as fact estimates are just that... guesses

and for the record i never said things will get drastically better...

You say the whole gdp will be consumed in 71 years by healthcare

I said thats impossible as no one is going to spend everything on healthcare

You say when is it going to get better

I said it could happen tomorrow, it all depends on how many consumers cannot afford to pay the premium.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]

I like my quotes - they are funny

and I am NOT in favor of Mandates amongst other things, contrary to my "party".

I agree everyone is not going to pay everything towards healthcare, I also understand that this does not happen over night. People haven't spoken out this last decade, they accept it and pay. I assume they will pay just as they have... When the breaking point is reached, lord only knows, if the private market cannot curtail the costs whats left?

The numbers may appear extreme - the point is to recognize the trend and make some hard choices. I hope your faith in the market is well founded in this case, hopefully you two are close like blood brothers.

I don't trust anything that much -



[edit on 9-11-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Janky Red


well i will agree that reform must happen it certainly is not now with this bill, there are plenty of other ways to bring down insurance costs... limiting malpractice claims, preventive care... Government run healthcare = disaster

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red

 

well i will agree that reform must happen it certainly is not now with this bill, there are plenty of other ways to bring down insurance costs... limiting malpractice claims, preventive care... Government run healthcare = disaster

Ok tort reform is good what will save us?

CBO now estimates that implementing a typical package of tort reform proposals nationwide would reduce total U.S. health care spending by about 0.5 percent (about $11 billion in 2009). That figure is the sum of a direct reduction in spending of 0.2 percent from lower medical liability premiums and an additional indirect reduction of 0.3 percent from slightly less utilization of health care services. (Those estimates take into account the fact that because many states have already implemented some of the changes in the package, a significant fraction of the potential cost savings has already been realized.)

Enacting a typical set of proposals would reduce federal budget deficits by roughly $54 billion over the next 10 years, according to estimates by CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee of Taxation. That figure includes savings of roughly $41 billion from Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, and the Federal Employees Health Benefits program, as well as an increase in tax revenues of roughly $13 billion from a reduction in private health care costs that would lead to higher taxable wages.

But that’s not the end of the savings, either. A 0.5% reduction in health-care costs would mean $11 billion in savings per year overall, with roughly 40% of that benefiting the federal government in Medicare and other federal program costs. That amounts to a whopping $110 billion in cost savings over ten years to the entire medical industry, which would help keep premiums in check for consumers.

So per this article the savings would be $11 Billion a year

America


6,000 hospitals in 50 states plus District of Columbia

Total Healthcare Expenditure: $ 2,260 billion
Total Population: 303,824,640
Largest healthcare market in the World.

www.bioportfolio.com...

So take away $11 Billion saved with tort reform

from $2,260 BILLION

=

$2,250,000,000,000.00

that leaves 2.25 trillion $'s

a $.50 savings per $100.00 spent

Good start, what else?

Originally posted by Janky Red

I simply did math and projected it into the future and you are ATTACKING mathematics?

Its sad day when you attack people for trying to illuminate something, using the basic components of logic, I showed you numbers and you treat them like magic tricks. Even if the projection is only ten percent accurate, or TRILLIONS OFF, the cost is incredible and outrageous.

If you were not intoxicated by the ideological opiate, you would not lash out like a
spoilt ape.

" number don't count if they are ugly "


... like it or not we are screwed anyway you slice it, keep your head in the sand.

Your ignorance towards the gravity of the situation compounds the problem we face

[edit on 9-11-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by Janky Red]

Relax. I'm not "attacking" anything. I'm simply pointing out that if one puts garbage IN to any equation, one gets garbage back out. The numbers are unsustainable, and lead to a preposterous conclusion, hence there is an input error. The world will implode LONG before EVERYTHING we make is put in to health care, much less before astronomical figure we don't make are.

Logic leads to logical conclusions, not illogical ones like above. Hence, there is a definite flaw in your "logic". Your idea of "magic tricks" is highly applicable, with a caveat: misleading figures are not commonly termed "magic".

"Intoxicated by the ideological opiate"? "Spoiled ape"? WHO is on the attack? "Ideological opiate"... you get that straight out of Marx?

Numbers don't count if they are ugly? Wrong. Ugly numbers count. Ridiculously inflated ones don't. They are only used for propaganda purposes, to scare the uninitiated.

Don't include me in your "we". I don't play the insurance lotto, and will not be forced into it by you or anyone else, congress (or is that the Secretariat these days?) included.

The only "grave situation" we have is all these people looking for a problem to apply their "final solution" to.

reply to post by Janky Red


Lol man i was offering you a way out of the argument if you want to keep going then.... Did you know with the government option you will be forced to have all current vaccinations including the swine flu vaccination? Did you know that in the healthcare bill they dont account for inflation in the tax brackets? Did you know that every federal agency will know exactly what your medical report says? did you know that under the new health bill you will no longer be able to claim privacy on medical records if you have the public option?

You just uncovered a whole new can of worms Janky (im a communist) Red?

Thats funny becuase your name has red in it ... get it? of course you dont ... silly idealist ... go figure a liberal doesnt know where money comes from (sarcasm)

its even more funny becuase you offer false "guesses" to what the insurance companies "might do" in the future.
Parrot.



[edit on 9-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Janky Red

Relax. I'm not "attacking" anything. I'm simply pointing out that if one puts garbage IN to any equation, one gets garbage back out. The numbers are unsustainable, and lead to a preposterous conclusion, hence there is an input error. The world will implode LONG before EVERYTHING we make is put in to health care, much less before astronomical figure we don't make are.

Logic leads to logical conclusions, not illogical ones like above. Hence, there is a definite flaw in your "logic". Your idea of "magic tricks" is highly applicable, with a caveat: misleading figures are not commonly termed "magic".

"Intoxicated by the ideological opiate"? "Spoiled ape"? WHO is on the attack? "Ideological opiate"... you get that straight out of Marx?

Numbers don't count if they are ugly? Wrong. Ugly numbers count. Ridiculously inflated ones don't. They are only used for propaganda purposes, to scare the uninitiated.

Don't include me in your "we". I don't play the insurance lotto, and will not be forced into it by you or anyone else, congress (or is that the Secretariat these days?) included.

The only "grave situation" we have is all these people looking for a problem to apply their "final solution" to.

I think it is pointless to discuss with you, you did not even try to do the calculation yourself, you take the lazy mans path... My numbers are fine and I suspect you
wouldn't look at them if they were burned into your forehead.

Can you wrap your head around this?


You make ten dollars and hour and can expect an 8% raise each year

first year $10.80

second year $11.88

third year $12.83

SAME EQUATION AS THIS-

One decade from now the current rate of $15,000 a year to cover a family of four

Year - 2019

+ 131% increase as is the trend

= $34,650

Two decades

Year - 2029

+131% increase as is the trend

= $80,041

Three decades

Year - 2039

+131% increase as is the trend

= $184,894

Four decades

Year - 2049

+131% increase as is the trend

$427,105

Five decades

Year - 2059

+131% increase as is the trend

$986,612

In re reading your post it is evident you are here to be a parrot and pay homage to your corporate masters. God would fail trying to bestow a shred of common sense upon you




[edit on 9-11-2009 by Janky Red]

reply to post by LAUGHING-CAT

Madame Pelosi, in an unmitigated confession of her contempt for the citzenry of the United States of America, aka, We The People, described this as "We got one Republican vote, so that, in my opinion, makes it bi-partisan."

Yes, and all it took to get that one Republican vote was a promise from Obama to continue to send millions of dollars into New Orleans, under the "guise" of hurricane relief.
If the American people knew how much graft and bribery took place to get the last 15 votes, they would truly be shocked. The proof of that is there, you just need to watch the money flow into the districts of those that were on the fence.

reply to post by Janky Red


Damn jank trying to be mean to a guy who thought you were commenting on him rather than myself... that's low bud.... quit being a loser... Cant you see your addiction to meaningless words from TPTB is keeping you from making friends...

I absolutely call intervention.

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Lol man i was offering you a way out of the argument if you want to keep going then.... Did you know with the government option you will be forced to have all current vaccinations including the swine flu vaccination? Did you know that in the healthcare bill they dont account for inflation in the tax brackets? Did you know that every federal agency will know exactly what your medical report says? did you know that under the new health bill you will no longer be able to claim privacy on medical records if you have the public option?

You just uncovered a whole new can of worms Janky (im a communist) Red?

Thats funny because your name has red in it ... get it? of course you dont ... silly idealist ... go figure a liberal doesnt know where money comes from (sarcasm)

its even more funny becuase you offer false "guesses" to what the insurance companies "might do" in the future.
Parrot.



[edit on 9-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]

No actually Janky refers to Beyond disgusting and Red refers to the color of Yer party GOPer and no I can't see Russia from my house Red.

Its funny, I can smell neocons much better then you can smell socialists.
A like a perfect little neocon drone you refuse to think about your country.
Time and time again put your head in the sand and spit out your guidelines.

I showed you my own independent take on the inflation and you IGNORE it, why???

Because it was not sanctioned by Glen Beck and the Barracuda plain and simple.

I know what the insurance companies are going to do - they are going to
rape this country further. Sadly you and your mates don't get a badge or a discount
on your future premiums for selling out your country. The fact that you guys are to lazy
to do the math for yourself is no surprise, Neocons love the elite...

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Damn jank trying to be mean to a guy who thought you were commenting on him rather than myself... that's low bud.... quit being a loser... Cant you see your addiction to meaningless words from TPTB is keeping you from making friends...

I absolutely call intervention.

He came at me first, didn't take three minutes to do the Math (like someone else)
and is a big boy now.

Point is TPTB is money men and corporations and you guys fail to even look at the implications. YOU are trying to defend the unfettered operations of the elite and in the same breath using TPTB?

" NO, NO mathematics are not sanctioned here"

Get real, you are defending the STATUS QUO

the status quo -

THE POWERS THE BE -

SYNONYMS (not math)

Wake up and be for your country men for once, not the big men whole make the world turn.

Originally posted by Janky Red

I think it is pointless to discuss with you, you did not even try to do the calculation yourself, you take the lazy mans path... My numbers are fine and I suspect you
wouldn't look at them if they were burned into your forehead.

It probably is pointless. I'm not led astray that easily. Your "numbers" are based on an assumptive initial input, with an assumptive progression in the course of the math. I can use the same methodology to "prove" that 30 years from now, the US will be a smoking crater populated by irradiated spanish-speaking zombies. All I have to do is create the proper assumptive input, and "do the math".

Remember, in any decent statistics course, you will be told that, mathematically speaking, there are lies, there are DAMN lies, and then there are statisitics. In that order.

Can you wrap your head around this?


You make ten dollars and hour and can expect an 8% raise each year

first year $10.80

second year $11.88

third year $12.83

Your initial assumption there is that I work for someone else, who will in turn give me raises.

Error.

Your next assumption is that those raises WILL be 8%.

Error.

I think we can see where this leads.

SAME EQUATION AS THIS-

(mathematical magic truncated for brevity)

Exactly.

In re reading your post it is evident you are here to be a parrot and pay homage to your corporate masters. God would fail trying to bestow a shred of common sense upon you

Parrot. You think that one up all by yourself? Please point out what I have "parroted", and from whom, and I'll happily retract it.

MY "corporate masters"? I have no such. Neither will I allow YOUR corporate masters to force me into this government-run insurance lottery scam. Neither by force, nor by subterfuge and fear as you are attempting to do.

I think for myself, and more's the pity when anyone tries to pull the wool over my eyes as you have. They ALWAYS react poorly when called on it. You provide an excellent example.

My common sense is just fine, thank you. I can't help it if you don't like independent thought. One thing for sure, I thank the God you mention that I'm not infected with the brand of "common sense" that would allow me to fall for your mathematical parlor tricks.

reply to post by Janky Red


"he came at you first"? that selective reading thing again huh... hey its cool man play em how you see em comrade.

Ah whats in a name huh jank? Well you put it out there first ... lemme throw some of your quotes down...

"No actually Janky refers to Beyond disgusting and Red refers to the color of Yer party GOPer and no I can't see Russia from my house Red."

from your last post right?

"My entire point is to underscore how big this problem is going to get, my equation represents the ROAD we are on, my hopes are that you and everyone else will look past the ideology party crap and look at the numbers. I only hope everyone can see
something needs to happen - I am not suggesting what that something is, cause I don't know how to fix it."

thats from another of your posts... underline....for....emphasis....

So you are really arent past the "party" crap yourself. Sounds like sweet hypocrisy.

You throw alot of "math"... you say you do "billing" all day. tell me then how do you compound interest yearly?

after that wiki how you detract how the amount of "inflation" of any given year affects the dollars power.

Even after that ... whats the name of the medical form your employer gives out so that you can receive health care under their plan.

Past that even what is the form you sign to send to the IRS about your yearly income....

Dude you claim alot of things that have yet to be proven, Say whatever you want... but i know who you are... a minor who lives under mommy and daddy's health plan. Someone who only parrots the words of those who have say in your best interests.

Why do you think people should listen to you? Your a self-righteous braggart.






[edit on 9-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Janky Red

I think it is pointless to discuss with you, you did not even try to do the calculation yourself, you take the lazy mans path... My numbers are fine and I suspect you
wouldn't look at them if they were burned into your forehead.

It probably is pointless. I'm not led astray that easily. Your "numbers" are based on an assumptive initial input, with an assumptive progression in the course of the math. I can use the same methodology to "prove" that 30 years from now, the US will be a smoking crater populated by irradiated spanish-speaking zombies. All I have to do is create the proper assumptive input, and "do the math".

Remember, in any decent statistics course, you will be told that, mathematically speaking, there are lies, there are DAMN lies, and then there are statisitics. In that order.

Can you wrap your head around this?


You make ten dollars and hour and can expect an 8% raise each year

first year $10.80

second year $11.88

third year $12.83

Your initial assumption there is that I work for someone else, who will in turn give me raises.

Error.

Your next assumption is that those raises WILL be 8%.

Error.

I think we can see where this leads.

SAME EQUATION AS THIS-

(mathematical magic truncated for brevity)

Exactly.

In re reading your post it is evident you are here to be a parrot and pay homage to your corporate masters. God would fail trying to bestow a shred of common sense upon you

Parrot. You think that one up all by yourself? Please point out what I have "parroted", and from whom, and I'll happily retract it.

MY "corporate masters"? I have no such. Neither will I allow YOUR corporate masters to force me into this government-run insurance lottery scam. Neither by force, nor by subterfuge and fear as you are attempting to do.

I think for myself, and more's the pity when anyone tries to pull the wool over my eyes as you have. They ALWAYS react poorly when called on it. You provide an excellent example.

My common sense is just fine, thank you. I can't help it if you don't like independent thought. One thing for sure, I thank the God you mention that I'm not infected with the brand of "common sense" that would allow me to fall for your mathematical parlor tricks.

Mathematic parlor tricks

and yes you are astray

Yes, I assumed that you would get a raise for brevity and to assist in your PROVEN lack of self initiative in discussion.

And there we have it -

you did NOT disprove that healthcare is raising 131% every ten years -

you did not disprove this math (or if you did, LET ME SEE!)

I showed you the equation, it is elementary, not magic.

Year - 2019

+ 131% increase as is the trend

= $34,650

Two decades

Year - 2029

+131% increase as is the trend

= $80,041

Three decades

Year - 2039

+131% increase as is the trend

= $184,894

Four decades

Year - 2049

+131% increase as is the trend

$427,105

Five decades

Year - 2059

+131% increase as is the trend

$986,612

You guys are WEAK - enjoy your new corporate masters




[edit on 10-11-2009 by Janky Red]

I just HAD to jump into this one, but from here on out I promise I'll try to stay in my own conversations.

Originally posted by Janky Red
He came at me first, didn't take three minutes to do the Math (like someone else)
and is a big boy now.

Indeed, 'tis true. I never have been able to abide by folks pulling "facts" and figures out of their posteriors with intent to scare anyone else into their way of thinking.

Guilty as accused.

Wake up and be for your country men for once, not the big men whole make the world turn.

I AM for my countrymen. That includes doing everything I can to keep them form getting bullied into working for the socialistic nanny state.

Get it? I'm for my COUNTRYMEN, not your government. Some of us exist ONLY to protect them from such horrors.

From the immediately preceeding post:

Originally posted by Janky Red

No actually Janky refers to Beyond disgusting and Red refers to the color of Yer party GOPer and no I can't see Russia from my house Red.

First, I'm not a GOPer. I left them in the dust when the neocons took over. The amusing thing, to me, is that you aren't old enough to recall the original color scheme. Prior to the 2000 elections, when the neocons first gained power, blue stood for the Republican Party, and red for the Democrat party. It extended world-wide, and red represented anything left of center, and blue represented anything right of center.

The colors were switched in the 2000 elections to reflect the neocon takeover, since they are far from "conservative". Neocons are nothing more than another version of socialist.

Its funny, I can smell neocons much better then you can smell socialists.
A like a perfect little neocon drone you refuse to think about your country.
Time and time again put your head in the sand and spit out your guidelines.

As stated above, there is no practical difference. Maybe you should have your sniffer checked out. Agreed, neither neocons nor progressives are looking out for the country. That's left to people like "us".

I think the fact that we are here, dukeing it out, is evidence enough that we haven't stuck our heads in any sand. Had we done so, we'd have never seen the attempt at subterfuge.

So far, I've seen no one but you try to put out "guidelines".

I know what the insurance companies are going to do - they are going to
rape this country further. Sadly you and your mates don't get a badge or a discount
on your future premiums for selling out your country. The fact that you guys are to lazy
to do the math for yourself is no surprise, Neocons love the elite...

First, the insurance companies will only do what their customers allow them to do.

Unless the government FORCES it.

I want neither a badge NOR "premium discounts". I can't use either one, since, as I told you before, I'm not buying into that insurance scam. I don't participate, get it?

You, sir, have FAR more in common with the neocons than I. Both you AND they have an agenda to so infuse government into the life of the common man to the point that liberty is choked entirely to death.

How does it feel to have labels tossed in your direction?

reply to post by Janky Red


No jank! i had so much faith in you that you would be able to answer all my questions without having to research what i was talking about ... bleh

Though I do envy your ignorance. You can just rattle of your "equations" as an argument when you cant actually address what those numbers mean. Don't be discouraged after high school it becomes much easier.

But you will have to have the initiative to get through college. Oh yeah and hey if your parents cant afford tuition, its no big deal you can always get a student loan. But alas with healthcare reform the way its going you'll have to shell out double what your student loan costs monthly for healthcare by itself.

But don't complain to me. I was the one telling you that would happen, little did you know, of course. Yes how little you do know.

Originally posted by Janky Red

Mathematic parlor tricks

and yes you are astray

Yes, I assumed that you would get a raise for brevity and to assist in your PROVEN lack of self initiative in discussion.

Did you intend me to respond to mere juvenile insults? If so, this sentence is your response to all of the above.

you did NOT disprove that healthcare is raising 131% every ten years -

Why should I? It was YOUR assertion, therefore YOU have the burden of proof. You gave one reference to the past, have given NO proof about your future assumptions. Note that I said "proof", not some nebulous estimate, that can be picked out of the air, or wherever else it is you get your "facts".

Better dust off that crystal ball, if you're peering into the future.

you did not disprove this math (or if you did, LET ME SEE!)

I never needed to, as I've no quarrel with the math itself. My quarrel has consistently been with the inputs into the equations, and the methodology of your extrapolation, taking it beyond all logical limits.

I showed you the equation, it is elementary, not magic.

....

See how neatly I can truncate that drivel you've posted over and over again? You should try it, in the interest of saving space. Continually posting it over and over again will lend no validity to it whatsoever. It's as falsely assumptive the umpteenth time as it was the first.

You guys are WEAK - enjoy your new corporate masters

Might be weak, but at least I don't have to cook the books to "prove" an invalid point.

I'll ignore the insult about the "corporate masters". It's getting tiresome and repetitive, and as I've already mentioned, just repeating something over and over will never make it so.

Originally posted by conspiracyrus
reply to post by Janky Red

 

"he came at you first"? that selective reading thing again huh... hey its cool man play em how you see em comrade.

Ah whats in a name huh jank? Well you put it out there first ... lemme throw some of your quotes down...

"No actually Janky refers to Beyond disgusting and Red refers to the color of Yer party GOPer and no I can't see Russia from my house Red."

from your last post right?

"My entire point is to underscore how big this problem is going to get, my equation represents the ROAD we are on, my hopes are that you and everyone else will look past the ideology party crap and look at the numbers. I only hope everyone can see
something needs to happen - I am not suggesting what that something is, cause I don't know how to fix it."

thats from another of your posts... underline....for....emphasis....

So you are really arent past the "party" crap yourself. Sounds like sweet hypocrisy.

You throw alot of "math"... you say you do "billing" all day. tell me then how do you compound interest yearly?

after that wiki how you detract how the amount of "inflation" of any given year affects the dollars power.

Even after that ... whats the name of the medical form your employer gives out so that you can receive health care under their plan.

Past that even what is the form you sign to send to the IRS about your yearly income....

Dude you claim alot of things that have yet to be proven, Say whatever you want... but i know who you are... a minor who lives under mommy and daddy's health plan. Someone who only parrots the words of those who have say in your best interests.

Why do you think people should listen to you? Your a self-righteous braggart.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]

I don't think people listen to me - I have you and Captain Kirk calling me Karl Marx
and ignoring the math...

I do medical billing in a chiropractic office yes and I see how much the doctors have
to write off which only makes the insurance industry larger and MORE expensive.
You guys seem to believe that the industry will pass on their savings to consumers.
The do not, the insurance industry increases its operation to justify higher premiums.

I can show you the back door to online billing which is not in the public domain

www.ashlink.com...

At the end of the day you guys believe what you want regardless -

I tried to show you the trend and you IMMEDIATELY assume I fudge the math

I only pointed out the trend and asserted it was dangerous to this economy

You guys attack the person in an attempt to disqualify anything they say;
then you convince yourself that EVERYTHING that person says is false.

But at the end of the day those numbers represent the current trajectory of premium cost.

These thread goers did not jump to your conclusions

www.abovetopsecret.com...