Health Care- Now(Passed)

philip.greenspun.com...

alot of good information there for people who think this healthcare is a good idea....

The devil is certainly in the details. Obama is desperate and he pulled out all of the stops in order to gain AARP and AMA support for this POS legislation.

The American Medical Association (AMA) was facing a 21 percent cut in physicians' reimbursements under the current law. Obama promised to kill the cut if they backed his bill. The cuts are the fruit of a law requiring annual 5 percent to 6 percent reductions in doctor reimbursements for treating Medicare patients. Bravely, each year Congress has rolled the cuts over, suspending them but not repealing them. So each year, the accumulated cuts threaten doctors. By now, they have risen to 21 percent. With this blackmail leverage, Obama compelled the AMA to support his bill...or else!

#

# The AARP got a financial windfall in return for its support of the healthcare bill. Over the past decade, the AARP has morphed from an advocacy group to an insurance company (through its subsidiary company). It is one of the main suppliers of Medi-gap insurance, a high-cost, privately purchased coverage that picks up where Medicare leaves off. But President Bush-43 passed the Medicare Advantage program, which offered a subsidized, lower-cost alternative to Medi-gap. Under Medicare Advantage, the elderly get all the extra coverage they need plus coordinated, well-managed care, usually by the same physician. So more than 10 million seniors went with Medicare Advantage, cutting into AARP Medi-gap revenues.

Presto! Obama solved their problem. He eliminates subsidies for Medicare Advantage. The elderly will have to pay more for coverage under Medigap, but the AARP -- which supposedly represents them -- will make more money. (If this galls you, join the American Seniors Association, the alternative group; contact [email protected]. This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .)

# The drug industry backed ObamaCare and, in return, got a 10-year limit of $80 billion on cuts in prescription drug costs. (A drop in the bucket of their almost $3 trillion projected cost over the next decade.) They also got administration assurances that it will continue to bar lower-cost Canadian drugs from coming into the U.S. All it had to do was put its formidable advertising budget at the disposal of the administration.

# Insurance companies got access to 40 million potential new customers. But when the Senate Finance Committee lowered the fine that would be imposed on those who don't buy insurance from $3,500 to $1,500, the insurance companies jumped ship and now oppose the bill, albeit for the worst of motives.

The only industry that refused to knuckle under was the medical device makers. They stood for principle and wouldn't go along with Obama's blackmail. So the Senate Finance Committee retaliated by imposing a tax on medical devices such as automated wheelchairs, pacemakers, arterial stents, prosthetic limbs, artificial knees and hips and other necessary accoutrements of healthcare.

So these endorsements are not freely given, but bought and paid for by an administration that is intent on passing its program at any cost.

www.newsmax.com...

It all makes sense now, doesn't it? For those who can't see it take off the Rose Colored Glasses long enough to realize that you have been hoodwinked and bamboozled.

For some reason these Whizbangs on the left are not afraid of 2010 repercussions. Makes you wonder....

Originally posted by SpacePunk

There are other way of handling it, and if we can spend billions in Iraq and Afghanistan, if we can give trillions to the banks, we can spend to keep our work force, and the people healthy.

This reminds me of a couple I used to know. He would buy a new vehicle, so she would buy a new vehicle. It didn't matter that they were buying it all on credit, she justified her spending based on his spending. They ended up divorced and broke.

reply to post by Ahabstar

I see conflicts with the 4th, 8th and 9th and a very flagrant violation of the 10th Amendments in the text of the Bill.

It'll be interesting to see if the Supremes agree with your take on it... I do.

reply to post by SpacePunk
By all means don't be a "Jackass"be the good little socialist Im sure you are.Don't distinguish a good program like the VA from total control of the masses like HC,a program that the politicians don't even want any part of while they have excellant HC already that we pay for.

If the choice is thinking for myself and telling the difference between a good program and socialist run program that enables the bloodsuckers that can't or won't take resposibility for themselves,then call me a Jackass.

reply to post by SharkBait


We need to take down every name of every man and woman in Washington who voted for this and make sure they are gone in the next election.

What they passed is the beginning of the end for our children and their future!

Generation Theft

reply to post by Battleline


Thing about the VA is that during the 70's and even 80's the VA was not a happy place to be by no stretch of the imagination. Things with the VA have vastly improved over the years. Even the charges of neglect recently (year or two ago---I know someone can't help me recall the specific hospital) they paled compared to how things were post-Vietnam.

I am glad of the improvements to the VA and I believe that veterans (especially those that served in combat eras) deserve to have free health care provided. It is the least that a grateful nation can do for those that served.

That said, look at the neighborhoods administered by HUD as Section 8 projects. I would hate to think I would need to carry a gun while inside a hospital for my own protection and the protection of others. Given the neighborhoods that hospitals are often found in, you kind of feel a need to get to the hospital.

Or the government could do what they should have done ten years ago;
tort reform and making America into a producer instead of consumer nation. more jobs, more money for the people, better healthcare, more affordable healthcare.


But that's just common sense, right? right??

reply to post by seagull


Glad that you agree. Unfortunately I have little faith in the Supreme Court looking at this without a major court case to motivate them into any sort of action first. There is more than enough language in the Bill but I don't feel there is a Justice that would oppose the status quo by convening any sort of caucus or review on behalf of the People nor the Constitution they are supposed to guard.

Originally posted by optimus primal
Or the government could do what they should have done ten years ago;
tort reform and making America into a producer instead of consumer nation. more jobs, more money for the people, better healthcare, more affordable healthcare.


But that's just common sense, right? right??

Common sense or magical thinking -

American companies are producing jobs!

In China

Per the CBO, tort reform would save 5,400,000,000 a year, while the current healthcare expenditure is 1,500,000,000,000 a year which is less than half of 1%...

At current rate of the private system healthcare will be 100% of the GDP by 2080, every year.

Originally posted by Battleline
reply to post by SpacePunk

 

Don't be a self martering whiner,you can always go to emergancy room get taken care of and chump the bill.No one dies in America of lack of health care(although Im sure there are some stories out there).

Just ask the illegals how they do it,I have and the illegals can be very informative if your nice about how you ask.

Ya man, people with cancer and diabetes go to the emergency room and get taken care of for sure. Nobody dies because they roll up in that emergency room every morning and get their chemo

The things people justify with the thinest string of logic -

OOOPS

My kidney failed, I'm gonna go to the emergency room, I'll be right back....

Originally posted by mkross1983

Originally posted by mrsdudara

Originally posted by mkross1983
Revolt. Kick out every single government figure and start over.

You can not revolt or kick anyone out the government unless there is something set up to take its place.

Another side HAS to be established.

Polititians may be the enemy right now, but Politics are a necessity.

How about we let Ron Paul lead our side?

I think we should let the American people vote. If Ron Paul's name is in the hat, then at least there is one name in the hat. One step closer to change in the right direction is better than no change at all. I personally think we should have a second government set up ready to take over providing the one in charge steps too far over the line. That is how it was supposed to be to begin with. Was it not? There are even amendments in place to make it happen. If the government goes too far states are supposed to make them step down. However there is not other government set up to take their place. The govt has been able to essentially blackmail them up to this point. The system needs to be fixed. There was one little thing missinng that they didnt figure we needed. A restart button. New government, back to square one.

At least this time we dont need to come up with a constitution. The one we have worked just fine.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by mrsdudara]

220-215 is such a small lead. I wonder if it will pass the Senate? I wonder when they will try? Im sure they are going to try their best to get this thing through before we have a chance to vote anyone out.

Do you really think the Senate will vote for this?

www.telegram.com...

Lots of good info about the details of the HC Plan.

This is my first time attempting to post a link - let me know if I messed it up and how to correct it, please!

This bill appears to have the stamp of neo-malthusian eugenics all over it, but considering the source and players in the white house, why shouldnt it?

Supporters need to brush up on their Ecoscience.

Here's a link to the roll call for this vote:

clerk.house.gov...

Know if you representative is on your manure list.

[edit on 11/8/2009 by sad_eyed_lady]

WOOT! Health Care Reform!

This is why I voted for these guys.

Before y'all flame me, I am evil, don't act all shocked.

Listen, this bill was blessed by two bishops. Sure after the flames were put out and they got a new uncharred copy of the bill to pass, order was restored in the House. So all went well.

And before you start some flame war that I am some commie, socialist, evil bastard, remember, I am not a CEO, so in all reality, I won't get anything from the government.

Chances are that anything they pass, I won't be qualified to get anyway. Funny how that works right? Ill slip through the cracks like I always do, and end up on the short end of another stick.





[edit on 11/8/2009 by whatukno]

Won't affect me. I'm an ALIEN. Give me more free shtuff.....Lol.

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by KarlG

Your so-called freedom is to be selfish, to be full of ill-will, to be violently stuck to your ways of "everyone live for himself, and care not for others".

To me, I see no statement. I see the passing of a law that allows me NOT to be selfish anymore. To watch as people around the country who have problems HAVE their problems ALLEVIATED.

To watch as about 28% of this country who already have personal income from government handouts get even more is not to have problems alleviated but is to create an even bigger problem.

You and people like you are crippling society by enabling them to be useless.

There are a small percentage of this country that need and deserve to be helped but most of the parasites in this country do so by choice and have no right to take money from hard working contributors to society in exchange for votes.

It may be legal to be an intentional leech on society but it is not right.

As far as being selfish, you are supporting the most selfish abuse of power imaginable. You don't learn to not be selfish by having your livelihood stolen by thieves.

You learn to be selfless by giving to and taking care of others by your own free will.

You, by your own admission aren't capable of not being selfish.

It seems you are the one who is truly selfish. You cannot see the true fault or will not acknowledge it but you will steal from others to assauge your own greed and guilt.

I just had to quote this because it's the absolute truth. You hit the ball out of the park with that response. It's sums up everything about his mentality and those that share the same views.

They're the ones who are selfish.

star..

reply to post by Tyr Sog


I absolutely agree and the only thing i can say about the whole mean and stingy thing, is yeah i work 40 hrs + a week so that i can provide for my family ... not for someone else who doesnt have enough initiative to provide for themselves... worst part is every paycheck i get is spent before it reaches the bank... If i have to pay for health care for me and my wife were screwed id lose my house... and without a legit place to live i will lose my job too... You can call me ill willed and evil and mean... but I don't support this bill because it would literally mean id be digging my own grave.