Committee confirms:Comply With Pelosi Care or Go To Jail, page 2

reply to post by Seiko

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This Health Care Bill, if it passes, will never stand up. Here's why...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by plumranch


Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

I wonder if the jails will be able to handle all the US citizens who refuse to buy their silly insurance?

biggovernment.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Im more interested in when i get arrested for not paying these new taxes, will the jail im in provide health insurance?

Originally posted by Seiko
reply to post by fraterormus

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You seem fairly balanced in your responses, what do you think of the legality of it?

This differs in car insurance as you can choose not to drive, but this seems like a living tax?

Well, the issue of the legality or Constitutionality of the IRS itself, and our Federal Tax system is an entirely different ball-game. There are many who believe that the Federal Income Tax is both illegal and unconstitutional, however that doesn't prevent the Courts from sentencing those who are caught evading the Federal Income Tax to Federal Prison. So, I won't derail this thread with a discussion of that.

However, as to this Health Care Bill itself...and let me insert a disclaimer that I have always been for Universal Health Care even when I was a card-carrying member of the Y.R.A. (the only sticky-widget in my mind was how it is to be implemented)...I don't believe that it falls within the realm of being illegal or being unconstitutional any more so than any other Federal Income Tax provision.

As the penalty for being non-insured is a 2.5% additional Tax Liability on your Federal Income Tax, it is not a Universal Tax on Living. Those who are already Exempt from Federal Income Tax will not have to pay this penalty. Those who are Unemployed, or are below the Federal minimum Annual Salary, will not have to pay this penalty. Only those who must file a 1040 already, and who have a Net Adjusted Income that is Taxable are liable for the 2.5% Penalty if they do not maintain Health Insurance. In other words, the Retired, Minors, the Poor, the Unemployed, et cetera neither are required to have Health Care or taxed for not having it. Only the Working Class and the Rich are taxed if they don't have it. (Which is the way to do it, as any other way would be grossly unfair to those who can't afford it.)

The reason for it is the same as how Group-Rates for Health Care Insurance works now. In an "Open Market" the higher the demand, the lower the cost is to the consumer (or at least that's how the theory goes). The larger an Employer is, they are able to negotiate proportionately lower Health Care Insurance Rates. The premise of this Amended Draft is that the Government is pooling all of the U.S. Citizens into one super large Group to negotiate an even lower Group-Rate, and subsidizing those who can't afford it with Tax dollars. Since this system depends on every person who has a Taxable Income participating to ensure the lowest possible Group-Rate, basically it has to require that those who can afford it either pay it or are taxed for it if they don't, while not penalizing those who can neither afford to pay it or be taxed for it.

It sucks that any Federal Program ultimately ends up taxing the Working Middle Class and the Rich (who don't have good enough Accountants or Tax Consultants to reduce their Tax Liability to 0 through deductions) have to pay for these programs through increased Income Tax, but this really is no different than any other Federal Program the Federal Government enacts. It was the same with the Bailouts, and it has been the same since the dawn of Federal Income Tax. Alors, c'est la vie.

[edit on 6-11-2009 by fraterormus]

reply to post by fraterormus

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I'm kind of following you. My question was whether it was constitutional to force someone to buy a service they did not want. By using the tax they have circumvented a direct mandatory health insurance line which could be contested easier in court?

Is my thinking on that close?

I am also for true health care for all, but I don't believe this bill gets anywhere close. I would rather they simply did the actual universal health care and got it over with. This is a headache and way too complicated. People will still be without health insurance, and those that have bad employee health insurance are forced to stay with it.

reply to post by fraterormus

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Only those who must file a 1040 already, and who have a Net Adjusted Income that is Taxable are liable for the 2.5% Penalty if they do not maintain Health Insurance. In other words, the Retired, Minors, the Poor, the Unemployed, et cetera neither are required to have Health Care or taxed for not having it.

Well, either you are not retired or are independently wealthy and retired to think that.
RETIRED PEOPLE DO PAY FEDERAL INCOME TAXES on their retirement. I have a 1040 every year to prove it.

I agree,there is no shortage of places to put the people who don't want to go along with what this government proposes.

hotair.com...

This is a nightmare in progress!

reply to post by On the Edge

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Oops! That said,"Page Not Found"!

You can get to it though...

The Lock up your Opponents bills of 2009 at Hotair.com

And it's getting worse everyday!

What really irks me is when people say things about the "collective conscienceness" or whatever,and this is all happening because we're not all thinking "happy thoughts"! There has always been evil in the world,and thinking "happy thoughts" will not make it go away!

reply to post by Jim Scott

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I don't think anybody has a problem with wanting everyone to have health insurance. But to freaking throw people in jail because they don't have the "proper coverage" - surely, you can't be in favor of that!

reply to post by inthesticks

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No only that but nobody in this nation should support a bill that forces people into becoming servants of a private entity.

Plain and simple we are no slaves and we were not born to belong to some corrupted system, America was build in the notion that we are all humans and individuals with certain rights give to us by free will.

Anything mandatory is not freedom of choice.

Something people are failing to understand.

reply to post by fraterormus

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frater,
Thanks for doing the work of turning bill-speak into something we can all understand.
But, what of those who do not work and are not on any aid whatsoever? Does the government have a way to get their healthcare hooks into these folks?????

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