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Committee confirms:Comply With Pelosi Care or Go To Jail

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posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by Tyr Sog
 


Losing incentive is exactly why the people that pay the most in taxes will either leave the country or move their busineses overseas, and lose even more of the tax income (much the way the rich have fled NY due to taxes) leaving the huge bills to be divied up amongst the rest of us.

We are already in a debtors prison, so to speak, just because they have spent our children and grandchildren into servitude to their country.

So if it passes, they will tax you to live, tax you to die, tax you to drive, tax your food, your cigarettes, your gasoline, your homes, and tax you everywhere in between.

So, I thought this was supposed to be free health care, with Obama Bucks, or something?





posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by Nyhee
 


That is the part I despise the most. I do not propose to take a say in what a woman does with her own body, but I will not have the blood of the unborn on my hands. For me, it has nothing to do with religion, that's just how I personally feel.

But, for some, this will come to a huge head in religous communities simply because they will refuse to do same. This will cost them a huge amount of illegal alien votes because they are so heavily Catholic. The silly woman just doesn't *think*. This is, afterall, one of the minority groups they are targetting for re-election.

Pelosi has no idea the storm she is about to bring upon herself and congress. No idea.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by Jim Scott
People without health care are

1. The largest source for bankruptcy.

Bankruptcy is good for the individual, but I'm sure you would not like people to keep the money they owe to you. It affects your life, future, etc.

2. The largest source for increased health care costs.

You pay a lot for health insurance because hospitals are caring for those who have no insurance.

3. Suffering when life changes occur.

They have sleepless nights, worried about what can happen to their own lives when something goes wrong in their family. Will they lose everything? I have know people who had medical debt over $1 million dollars. It devastated them.

4. Don't find out about preventive medicine.

Health care providers can do preventive measures, like routine exams, to keep medical problems small and inexpensive, compared to the full-blown costs of major problems, like cancer and heart disease. Nip it in the bud, so to speak.

For these and other reasons, it is a great idea to have universal health care. It makes for a healthier family, and a more stable economy. Makes sense for us all to chip in. I think it will actually cost less for all of us in the long run.


Thank you Kommissar for dictating what i will do!

Why should I have to pay for a bunch of slags (Gotter knows how many are freakin illegals) that lay around on welfare. They get it anyway. I've probably paid for enough anchor babies, hood rats, and stupid teenagers to populate a dang country!

I dont care if they're not smart enough to know of alternative care. if your too lazy or stupid you can leave the gene pool. Thanks for playing.

Bankruptcy? Why should i care if they were too stupid to not be eaten up with credit? I've gotten financially scarey on a few occasions. I didnt go to the feds to suck off of the government tit though.

Why should employers be forced to offer insurance when their employee has it from elsewhere?

This "health care" is NOTHING about health. Its control and therefore power.

Pal, you may like to be dictated to like a child that has no self determination. I dont. The feds can stay the hell out of my life.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 09:27 AM
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While i think its good to have insurance, this bill seems illegal as all hell. Liberty and freedom, the american way..it pretty sums up yuor free and have the right to choose what you want, when you want it, unlike communsim or socialism..where yuor freedoms and choices are made for you. I do not support this bill. This bill if passed will only open doors for more corruptions against up the popuolation, this we know, if anyone has been follwoing the news for the past 50 years, esepcailly within the past year.
Baiout money get used for AIG's executives to refurbish thier homes..bailout money is supposedly being used, to financ those energy fan towers, ande mployee 3,000 new jobs in china. any new job obama has helped make, has gone to India, and/or left here only as TEMP jobs. Many more businesses going overseas, leaving us behind. Since politics does have an influence and roll in this, what about us, the people?
Its like car insurance...its good to have, yes, especially if in a serious accident. One must ask and question then...how well built was the plastic new overpriced car they just bought? Ide question the saftey characterisitcs when it was in design! Is that the drivers fault/ examlpe the pinto...it was notorious known to explode upon impacts..yet it was marketed. 95 neon, like my car, strong enignes, tranys, but they have weak suspensions, headgasket problems, and electrical problems seem to pop up time to time.
Supopse those cars were desigend properly, not thrown on a drawing bored and simply marketed to make $$$$, leaving questionable saftey featueres, and a reliable car on the backburner? The driver belt thing states like to to every year, checkpoints* 2 times a year where i live, this year, they had checkpoints erected* And what aboutt he rest of the year? their not concerned about our sfaety anymore? BEsides, ive read more horror storys about peolpe dying with their seatbelts on then off. Mostly neck rib and chest related.
Seems all insurance agencys charge way different fees too. Last year, i called Allstate near me..renew my insurance i let go for a while. They wanted to start me at $240 a month!!!! State farms as unreachable,(voice operated messages) and about the same. I went to progressive..$90 a month* Seems Allstate especially has gone corporate* It all seems questionable, and involves money laundering, at least in my application.
We are americans and have a right to choose what we want, when we ant it, not the FED or government. Soon, i would not be suprised, if more laws and draconian insurances are required..just for walking ont he sidewalk! riding a bike or something. NO one spoke up and said this is wrong*



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 09:29 AM
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What felonius said..its all bout contorl and power, and now, greed* If im forced to apy for health insuranec, i shuold be allowd to act like i own a peice of the hospitol then...hang around, play with medical things, yuo know loiter



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 10:14 AM
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Ahhh, this is such a good idea princess pelosi. If people don't buy your insurance they go to jail. But guess what? inmates get free medical. Here's another kicker for ya. The jail I work at their sending pedophiles to sleep clinics (at tax payer expense) cause their having bad dreams.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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Economically speaking this bill is going to put us into "The Greater Depression".

Ive said it countless times that charging or taxing the consumers more leads to less spending all around. Families will be forced to pay 2.5 percent of their adjusted income? Its just depleting the amount of money that these families can save for, College education for their children (not to mention college tuition is skyrocketing), Their Ability to make major purchases, Such as a car or home, Paying for energy resources (gas and electric which is also skyrocketing), and even food ... (anyone else notice that Spam costs almost 5 dollars now?).

Another huge facet of this monster is the amount of money that will have to be spent by the government on support services that arent directly related to healthcare. Prisons will, undoubtedly, need to provide food and services for more inmates, not to mention larger facilities. These facilities cost a huge amount of money and do not provide any real income.
Their will soon be a rise in welfare recipients. ass this will push the lowest earning middle class families to lower class, and the highest paid lower class families into just above the poverty line.

Business' will be forced to provide healthcare for its workers (american workers....) meaning more companies will move off shore. And the smallest of companies who cannot do so will go under, meaning less jobs and confidence in smaller companies. While the largest of companies with huge accounting firms behind them will find a way around paying anything extra.

edit to add if they cut a few thousand jobs here and there theyll be fine right?

Limiting Diversity and Depleting consumer resources, while devaluing the faith of investors = total financial collapse.

Oh anyone notice that at the latest fed auction nothing was purchased? no one wants to finance our debt anymore....

A wise man once said "The greatest acts of evil are routinely disguised as the greatest acts of kindness"

another wise man once said "anyone who gives up liberty for protection is a fool and deserves neither."



[edit on 7-11-2009 by conspiracyrus]



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by groingrinder
 





2. You put a cap on what a doctor can charge and your doctor will leave. Quit, find somewhere to practice without your aggravation. Doctors are human and most are not incredibly rich like I assume you think they are. I give up. Where are they gonna go to? Canada or Mexico or England. Maybe South America?


Unless Barack and Pelosi muck things up completely there will always be differences in states. For instance when Texas put some limits on medical liability and lowered malpractice insurance fees, doctors flocked to TX.

You say you don't use doctors, I don't either and that brings up a point. Any HC legislation should include incentives for patients to use alternative and self med options. Pelosicare doesn't. People will tend to use it more rather than less so the system will overload, lines get longer.

Pelosicare is so wrong! This is why we need a bipartisan legislature. The Dems are going wild and crazy. Look what they are doing this weekend! eg...MoveOn Threatens to Push Primary Opponents to Dems Voting Against Health Plan

Email your Congressman to STOP THE BILL!



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by ziggy1706
 





NO one spoke up and said this is wrong*


I hear ya! And more and more people are paying attention and getting POd about the outrage!

Hang in there! Things are going to change!



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by plumranch
 


So, when they cart all us po-folk off to the FEMA camps, who pays for our health coverage while we are being held? OH, wait a minute, I know...that's when they build the ovens at the FEMA canps to resolve the "final solution" to the health care coverage question.
..............
...................



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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Hmmm....aren't corporations legally considered "persons"?

Shouldn't their healthcare be taxed, too? I mean what constitutes healthcare for a corporattion? Military interventions designed to protect profits (corporate health), shouldn't they be considered the same as a surgery of or other medical intervention? Shouldn't the bank bailouts be viewed as corporate healthcare? It was certainly shouted from the rooftops that it was absolutely necessary for the health of the economic system to have emergency surgery whose bill was charged to someone else: the US citizenry. To say taxpayer restricts the cost unrealistically, as all citizens are paying for their bills with fewer jobs, higher costs, and loss of liberties.

Strikes me the personal responsibility crowd never demands personal responsibility from the corporate person. I don't know of any corporation that pays for what it gets from the country: they are almost entirely a drain on the economy. In another age their behavior would be considered treason, and the trials would last about a day, after which they'd be shot or hung en masse. Corporate personhood is simply a way of avoiding personal responsibility by shunting it off to a "person" that has no individual face or body, one easily abandoned without repercussions if things get too hot. But in the end the very same real people open shop under a new corporate name and play out the very same behaviors.

So as long as corporations aren't subject to this sort of mandatory health insurance in a way they can't pass on to the rest of us (like making the payments non-deductible and coming out of after-tax profits, with pass-through attempts felonies), count me out of supporting it.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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I can one day see these debtor prisons being used to house those that will eventually go to FEMA death camps to be killed and burned in ovens. We will find that the whole sequence of events leading to this reality of what has happened was in fact done by design.

I can also see the total prison population being on the front line of this agenda headed to those FEMA death camps because when these global government idiots make their move and they will, they will want to rid the nation of everyone that costs the state money. The old, disabled, retarded, the criminals and anyone branded as a resistor to the NWO agenda.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by Jim Scott

You have to be real, here. Penniless citizens will have health care insurance, like they have welfare now. 95% of the uninsured are not the penniless, as you note. They are people who elect to avoid having health insurance because they feel they won't have anything go wrong with them. When it does go wrong, they wind up bankrupt, and receiving health care. Debts are dissolved to others (would you like it if they owed you?) and you pay for their health care. That plan is not working. We need to get people covered to reduce the cost to the rest of us. We are paying for them now.


what about the other 5%? ya know that ones who really can't afford the insurance? what about the ones who are chosing not to have because the alternative is to go without a car to make it to work, or the roof over their head, or the food on the family's dinner table??
how many more homes will go into forclosure because the once two income earners have become one and now that one has to provide the health insurance for the entire family...or at least one once income earner now uninsured?
how many bankruptcies will result mainly because of this law? so, the once two income family becomes one, and has an insurance problem. so, now you want to take the one and tax the hades out of them and send them to jail because they aren't able to insure the unemployed, maybe even themselves??? and well, we can live without the labor that one contributes to society, we can live without the care and nurturing they may provide to their children, we can live without the tax revenue that they are generating, we can live without their consumerism generating the economy.....
we can trade all that for a nice big bill for incarcerating them!

either our elected respresentative are the dumbest people on the planet, or they are deliberately trying to kill our country off!! I'd go with the second guess here.....there can't be that many people that dumb!

[edit on 7-11-2009 by dawnstar]



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 07:40 PM
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It's not unlike speeding and eventually being the one getting pulled over.
reply to post by fraterormus
 


Great observations


Even if you keep your own health care the entire system is going to be totally upgraded,and if a person goes to the Dr or hospital..everything is in this new system-or going to be.

It will be extremely difficult to cheat on your taxes or evade anything-not that I do,but just saying.

The concerns over privacy stagger the mind.



posted on Nov, 7 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by RobinB022
 





Even if you keep your own health care the entire system is going to be totally upgraded,and if a person goes to the Dr or hospital..everything is in this new system-or going to be.


Could you please explain what you mean here?

If you understand Congress and beurocracy then euphemisms like "the entire system is going to be totally upgraded" is impossible. Sort of like "Change you can believe in".



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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If you understand Congress and beurocracy then euphemisms like "the entire system is going to be totally upgraded" is impossible. Sort of like "Change you can believe in".
reply to post by plumranch
 


Well,you do sort of believe there are changes taking place right now right-and even if we don't like what we are seeing,well,there are changes taking place-so,not that impossible.

I was thinking about all of the information that might be included in these upgrades.Things like our personal banking information that will be visible to people working in the Drs offices,and being vulnerable to hackers.

Obama claims that this new system is going to be more efficient,and all of our medical and 'other' information will be in one place.This raises concerns about security issues in my mind.

I heard him (Obama) say this a couple months ago while watching him on one of the network stations (live),and my only source is my memory,but I assure you that I'm correct in my recall.It bothered me at the time,and it still bothers me today.



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by Erasurehead
Does this sound like liberty to anyone? I will not stand for this, I will fight this with all I have. They just can't decide that it is ok to send people to jail if they don't buy health insurance. This is unamerican and I can't believe that this is even being considered. Live free or die.



It's not? Think about it. I have to work to pay for the health care of others now. Doesn't that affect my liberty? When the uninsured go into a hospital, it comes out of my taxpayer pocket. I would rather see them pay something, personally.


Honestly I like the current arangement where people brainwashed by the corporations and the corporate government pay through the nose for being so easily manipulated!

Yes I would like you to pay for me! Why would I want to pay for me when people such as yourself have actually convinced yourself that crooked corporations who price things for obscene profits and created a system where people could never afford it out of their own pocket have to pay month in and month out routinely into a pool of money to pay for the obscene profit margins these corporate criminals make off of selling pennies worth of chemicals and a few dollars worth of time for ten's and ten's of thousands of dollars because the corporations dictate market value instead of the market itself.

I am glad you feel you are paying a lot more for this system than you should because the reality is you will be paying a lot more still with the new system.

Since you are accustomed to it and like being suckered by big corporations and a corrupt government I nominate you to continue to pay for other people!

I nominate me to only pay cash for only the medical services I need when I actually need them.

It's true missery loves company but I have no interest in joining or paying for a system that profits insanely and exploits other people's missery!

Hey you might want to get a second job! Oh and a third, because there are a lot of us who you are going to have to imagine you are paying for!



[edit on 8/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Nov, 8 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





Why would I want to pay for me when people such as yourself have actually convinced yourself that crooked corporations who price things for obscene profits and created a system where people could never afford it out of their own pocket have to pay month in and month out routinely into a pool of money to pay for the obscene profit margins these corporate criminals make off of selling pennies worth of chemicals and a few dollars worth of time for ten's and ten's of thousands of dollars because the corporations dictate market value instead of the market itself.


If you think big pharma is making a killing why don't you invest in and become rich? I'm completely serious!

My favorite is Pfizer Inc. PFE on the Dow. Phizer has average earnings for a big pharma company. It closed at $17.01, has a P/E ratio of 14 with annual earning of $1.20 a share or overall a 3.8% return on your investment!

You need to go out there, invest some of your retirement or pocket cash and get rich like the rest of the people in the drug industry! Share in the wealth (at 3.8% a year return). You could double your money in about 14 years!


The big money, big prophets in the drug companies is a myth. No matter how many times Obama and Pelosi repeat it, still a myth!



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by Erasurehead
Does this sound like liberty to anyone? I will not stand for this, I will fight this with all I have. They just can't decide that it is ok to send people to jail if they don't buy health insurance. This is unamerican and I can't believe that this is even being considered. Live free or die.




I'm with you on this one! Where are the liberal scumbags that hide here on ATS. I want to hear their pathetic excuses try and justify this! You know who you are! Come out you cowards, is THIS what you meant by Change? Imprisonment if we don't comply with your demands? Is that what freedom is to you? Come out all you! BH, S. Guardian, Hunka Hunka, I'm calling you out, come out NOW and explain yourselves and how this garbage legislation is "constitutional"



posted on Nov, 9 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by plumranch
 

Actually, what isn't apparent from the 3.8% profit is how that "profit" is derived.
Hidden in company expenses are exorbitant executive pay and bonuses:

I

n 2001, the top executives for five (five companies failed to disclose their philanthropic giving) of the ten highest grossing pharmaceutical companies were each compensated at an average of about $81 million2. In contrast, these same five pharmaceutical companies donated an average of less than half that amount or $33 million in cash.

greenlining.org...

In fact, executive pay at the drug companies is obscene, and results in "profits" which are much lower than they would be, if those executives received more modest compensation.

As for drug prices:


The pharmaceutical industry claims that drug prices need to be high in order to recuperate research and development investments. However, on average, the top ten U.S. pharmaceutical companies reported only 14% of their total revenues going towards research and development. In comparison, more than twice that amount, about 33%, is dedicated to marketing, advertising and administration3. In researching this report, Greenlining staff received less than full cooperation from the ten pharmaceutical companies. In general, they were not forthcoming in their responses to the many requests made by Greenlining for data and information on corporate practices. Most companies designated corporate practice information as “proprietary” and would not disclose them. These hidden corporate practices have already led to U.S. drug prices for many prescriptions that are two to three times higher than those in Canada4. Drugs with such price tags are simply not available to millions of seniors, children, and working poor, many who are not covered by any health insurance at all. Thus, drug companies that have the influence to drive up the cost of health insurance premiums through the pricing schemes for their “life saving” medications deprive those who most need these medications and do not have the resources to pay for necessary medications and to also pay for rent, utilities and food. This is an unconscionable corporate practice.

greenlining.org...

It is amazing what a clever accountant can do with a balance sheet.




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