So people actually TRUST the government with their HEALTH?!?

Can anyone, anyone, demonstrate exactly what benefit to the health and well-being to the individual, or society as a whole, that for profit health insurance companies provide-?

They exist exclusively, as a profit machine, pure and simple.

To profit from the illness and disabilities of American citizens should not be considered "capitalism", it should be viewed as what it is, vampire-ism.

-It sucks (pun intended).

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by dizzie56

 

I was merely making an observation upon the fact that if people think that the Native Americans have it going good then the herd will be culled due to lack of intelligence. Not calling you stupid directly, just making an observation upon the lack of intelligence in general if you have been lead to believe that they have it good.

You tell me.....

What is better? An insurance plan that cost over 1k a mo and the claims are denied 1/2 the time or a government plan that pays for health care like the IHS even with it's flaws?

I would rather my tax dollars be paid to help people in need than already rich CEOs and stock holders.

and speaking of herd culling....

BTW did you read this.......www.abovetopsecret.com...
You are so transparent it makes me LMAO

oh yeah, Utube, what a great sourse for credible information....

Any questions?

[edit on 2-11-2009 by whaaa]

I was merely making a point with the youtube video if you didnt want to read the other source...thought you might of liked something with pictures on it instead.

Wow, calling me a disinfo agent. Couldnt see that one coming at all really. then again, you could be the disinfo agent yourself. Since this is the internet, and we are pretty much anonymous, no one would ever know huh? Get real kid. You are trying to divert the arguement by throwing stones. I said somebody made an ignorant response by them saying the government would "pay the bills" when in reality, it is we who will be paying the bills. So yes, it was ignorant just to say something like "the government is going to pay for my health care" when all that is really happening is you are paying the government to manage your health care for you instead of somebody else. Wont make it any cheaper to be honest with you.

Im sorry, but if you are getting denied half of the time you are either trying to scam the system and getting what you deserve or you really need to find a lawyer and a different insurance agency. Im willin to bet its the latter.

Your tax dollars wont go to help some people in need. They will just be shifted around. Eventually, it will be put into the general fund, just like everything else.

What this really comes down to is do you trust the government wholly and trully enough to bet your life on it? Do you trust that they wont screw you over? Honestly, this is the ultimate question. Do you trust the government? How can anybody believe that the gov had something to do with 911 and then just do a complete turn around and put their lives in the gov's hands? I really dont get it.

Originally posted by dizzie56

The congress people trust the government paying for it because they dont have to pay jack...thats right, we are paying for it. and not only do they get it completely for free, they also have access to the best doctors in the united states at no cost to them what so ever. that is something neither you nor I will ever get unless we become congressmen, plain and simple. honestly, i actually would be a little less hell bent against the public option if the congressmen would get the same exact treatment that we would get, but they wont. they will still get the same old nice bloated plan that they have now. gotta love politicians.

This is a defeatist argument, I'm shocked hearing it from you because you've argued so well against government health care. You admit that they have great health care on our expense, but then you resign the game to fate.

WE can work together, we can demand this same thing. These people work for us. How can we just say that they deserve better because of their position in our political society? This reeks of a caste system, and I'm not gonna accept this as "just the way it is". expect the same for me and for you that I see them receiving.

This country is one you do have to work to get what you want, I'm not expecting it to be handed to me, but I shall continue to fight for what i believe in. It is our way.

reply to post by dizzie56


So dizzie56, who should I believe on the health care debate? An internet troll or these guys?

www.commondreams.org...

BTW, what expertise do you have in the matter other than listening to Rush, Sean and Savage.

Doesn't it make sense for the health care professionals that deal with the sick and dying to decide what kind of health care model is best for us rather than a bunch of MBAs and lawyers and lobbiest?




[edit on 2-11-2009 by whaaa]

Originally posted by Seiko

Originally posted by dizzie56

The congress people trust the government paying for it because they dont have to pay jack...thats right, we are paying for it. and not only do they get it completely for free, they also have access to the best doctors in the united states at no cost to them what so ever. that is something neither you nor I will ever get unless we become congressmen, plain and simple. honestly, i actually would be a little less hell bent against the public option if the congressmen would get the same exact treatment that we would get, but they wont. they will still get the same old nice bloated plan that they have now. gotta love politicians.

This is a defeatist argument, I'm shocked hearing it from you because you've argued so well against government health care. You admit that they have great health care on our expense, but then you resign the game to fate.

WE can work together, we can demand this same thing. These people work for us. How can we just say that they deserve better because of their position in our political society? This reeks of a caste system, and I'm not gonna accept this as "just the way it is". expect the same for me and for you that I see them receiving.

This country is one you do have to work to get what you want, I'm not expecting it to be handed to me, but I shall continue to fight for what i believe in. It is our way.

Its not a defeatest argument at all. Just pointing out the facts as they stand. I was told that congress has a great plan, and they do. But the reason why they have the greatest plan in the world is becuase they make the laws. We will never, as a country as a whole get the same plan. There is a limited amount of doctors and not every one of them will be as good as the ones that give congress their health care. I dont like it nor do I agree with it. But, you have to realize, you are asking the people that make the laws to remove their own perks...its never going to happen unfortunately.

Im shocked that people put into the arguement that congress's plan is run the by the government as if we will get the same exact plan. Oh yeah, wait, Obama did say we would. Guess we gotta believe him on that one now huh? But then again, congress themselves have said that they wouldnt have the same public option that they are toting for all of us to get on.

I do want better health care for everybody as well. But believing that you will get the same health care as TPTB is nieve at best. Even if the world turned over on itself and we had access to the limited amount of doc's that had the knowlegdge and skill that is required to work on TPTB, there is a finite amount of them...a very finite amount of them. We the people would most likely never see them what so ever.

Also, to have the plan like congress' we have to find a way to have someone else pay for it. So, who does everybody want to make our slaves? Pick a country, any country. Go in there, make them work their butts off and pay for our health care so we never have to pay a dime of it. Thats the only way we could even start to see some of the benefits of having a congressmen's health care like they have it.

I would really like to see it be changed. Honestly, I would. In order to do that, we need to vote in honorable people that are actually willing to make that happen. As of now, it wont. Kinda like what happened here in FL a couple of years ago. Some of the politicians were caught "double dipping" so to speak. They were required to mandatorily retire from one government job and they received a pension when doing so. But after a short time, they were back in the government gettin another nice check that came off of our backs along with the pension check. When the public had their little outcry and said that it needed to be changed I laughed. They were asking the people who were making the laws and doing the double dipping to outlaw double dipping. How funny is that? Its so sad that its histerical really. The only way to get it done is to vote in people that are actually stand-up guys so to speak. Men and women that have a back bone and wont always go the way of a party line but instead vote for what is right. Untill that happens, nothing will change.

How can we have a public option that will be run by politicians that we know are corrupt? It doesnt make any sense to me whatsoever. WE KNOW THEY ARE SCHISTERS. Why we the people would want to give them more power over us i will never understand. Yeah, some company CEO's are corrupt and greedy and sinister, but you still have the option of going to a different company. Maybe one that is just starting up and has a fresh ceo in there that isnt so damn greedy. With the public option, you just have the one option in the long run. No company can compete with a government, plain and simple. Then all you will have is those nice corrupt ceo's, i mean, congressmen who will be running your health care. These are the same people that voted for the Patriot Act. The same people that voted for both the wars. The same people that we know dont give a rat's ars about us, but yet we want to hand over our lives to them? I honestly do not get that.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Yes, people on Medicare, Medicaid, and those that use the VA Health Care System. You will see these people protesting against socialized health care, oddly enough.

Nationalized health care will kill this country.

There is rampant barely controlled fraud in everything the Federal idiots are involved in.

Blatant Medicare fraud costs taxpayers Billions

Health care fraud will bankrupt U.S. economy.

5000+a year chronically ill may becoming here to take advantage of our free health care.

HIV travel ban may be lifted.

But immigration critics say they’re leery of the proposal that could allow an average of 4,275 HIV-infected people into the country annually, with a lifetime medical cost of about $94 million for those admitted during the first year, according to CDC estimates published this month in the Federal Register.

Any child in school today will not live with any of the comforts that their parents had. They won't have any money to afford them.

[edit on 3-11-2009 by calcoastseeker]

Hmm, some good points. Let's see, do I want some heartless corporation who's only interest is making a profit, who will deny me coverage on a myriad of exceptions, tell the doctor to not treat me because the insurance company feels that the treatment is experimental. Raise my rates if I do get sick. Drop me altogether if I do get sick.

Or

Do I want a government agency to do it where government has no problem spending money it doesn't have to.

Let's see, same doctor, different method of payment. Raped by insurance payments, or raped by taxes.

Let's see, forcing the insurance companies to compete with the government by offering a better service for the same price. Shesh oh Pete. I don't know.



It's funny how gullible people are. The insurance companies have told you this is a bad idea, and a lot of you believe them. Your state reps may have told you this was a bad idea, you know, the same reps that are given campaign contributions by insurance lobbyists.

reply to post by SpacePunk


Not sure where you get your information but the V.A. isn't entirely free.

It is based on a Veterans medical situation and their income level.

Millions of Vets are not eligible for V.A. health care.

Plus,don't you think that those who served their country and have medical issues associated with their service DESERVE government medical care?

Answering the topic: No.

Reason: The government did not have a quarantine process to contain H1N1. Just read/listen/watch the recent news and articles. All about how serious H1N1 is and how it could kill you and how many have already been killed by it.

If the viral outbreak is that serious, why haven't our government done anything to quarantine the sick? You know what they do to you in China if you get H1N1, I know this because I have relatives living over there. Once you get it, you will be "forced" to remain in the hospital for 7 days. They will not release you until you are fully cured. Do you have a choice to speak against a quarantine process? No you don't, but that's only in China. In the land of the free, no one can "force" us to do anything right? Yeah...

When my brother was hit with H1N1, he was sent back home from the emergency hospital within 7 hours. Gave him TammiFlu, packed his ass home. Doctor there gave us breathe masks and that was it. They even went as far as telling us that 8 out of 10 patients with severe flu symptoms are H1N1, so it's not that big of a deal because it won't kill you.

We still can't get vaccines, there's like at least 20 people on the waiting list almost at every Doctor office in SoCal right now.

How can I trust my government with my health? When they actually step up to do something about the pandemic. Instead of just alerting the entire friggin' nation about how deadly it is but do nothing to quarantine the infected patients.