So people actually TRUST the government with their HEALTH?!?, page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 9 times


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 02:38 AM by dodadoom
reply to post by Janky Red


Thats too bad.
It really is a racket with the 'conned-sumer getting hosed every time.
Not really on topic but the banks have taken over here. (obviously)
They can charge whatever they want.
It's supposed to change (with a new law) in a year but I doubt it ever will.
They run this country and have for a long time.
Everything goes or comes through a bank at some point.......
once again the little guy gets reamed.

Of course the conned-sumers have to share some of the blame for
putting up with it!



[edit on 1-11-2009 by dodadoom]


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 03:15 AM by Janky Red
Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to
post by Janky Red


Thats too bad.
It really is a racket with the 'conned-sumer getting hosed every time.
Not really on topic but the banks have taken over here. (obviously)
They can charge whatever they want.
It's supposed to change (with a new law) in a year but I doubt it ever will.
They run this country and have for a long time.
Everything goes or comes through a bank at some point.......
once again the little guy gets reamed.

Of course the conned-sumers have to share some of the blame for
putting up with it!



[edit on 1-11-2009 by dodadoom]


All I am saying is it is protect the REAL ELITES of the world ALL the TIME.
At every turn I get screwed by this, that or the other...

The gym I joined ---

I came into the gym and said I would join ONLY if it were a month to month plan!
Guy said OK fine, but you will pay more a month - I said great -
Then the guys says oh wait a minute I printed out the wrong last page in that contract.

SURE AS ICE IS COLD he screws me! Switches the contract I read over, unaware of the last clause on the new page the gave me a two year agreement, AT the inflated monthly price!
So when I called to cancel my membership this was my reward for patronage, then MY BANK WOULD NOT STOP PAYMENT and claimed they would withhold the remainder owed, on a year and a half of membership... Literally, I was going to go in there and mess people up in a not so cool way, I have never felt so violated in my whole life, no proof, no recourse, EAT it Janky Red...

This is the same entitled mentality that goes on in the insurance industry and these morons are fighting for their captors.



[edit on 1-11-2009 by Janky Red]


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 10:00 AM by dodadoom
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


I see your point.
We trust them with our (retired) parents health care already though!
Its called medicare and social security.
Still has to be better than trusting in a 'for profit' system!
People are expendable, but profit is not! Apparently.
Dunno. Its all purty whacked!

Wait till we realize we trust our retirement to the stock market!!!
How nucking futts is that?


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 10:02 AM by dodadoom
reply to post by Janky Red


Red.
I know huh! But dont go mental on the clueless stupids.

Its really all you can do to not get screwed everytime you bend over
to pick up that penny that you need to pay all the taxes that are wasted.


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 11:13 AM by Snarf
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss



No, i don't trust the government, but i also don't trust greedy billionaires with it either.

And since those are my only two choices, i'll go with whichever one costs *ME* less.

Public Option Please.

Anything else is just pointless pandering to keep other people rich.


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 12:19 PM by newworld
It seems no one answered your questions on what the government has done for people to trust on it. I am going to play devil's advocate and show a link to a small list of things the government did that benefited us (the people). I know this is heresy in a conspiracy website but even a country that has so much corruption like this one should get credit when it is deserved:

"A dear friend of mine left a challenge in a comment. Here ’tis:

Other than the military, can you name 10 things that the government has done really well, better than the private sector?

It’s an important question, for skepticism toward all government (rather than reform of bad government) is not only common, but at the root of a couple of major political outlooks. And because it’s important, it seemed worth a post of its own.

Here’s my quick response. Maybe you can do better:

You betcha. Off the top of my head, I’ll give you twenty, most of which are under-funded for the work they do:

1. The FAA. Crashes are a rarity here, thanks to equipment safety tests and massively successful air flight controlling.
2. Medicaid: private sector insurance companies make money by ditching their customers when they get very sick. Medicaid picks up the castoffs.
3. Social Security: What if Mr. Bush had succeeded in privatizing SS before the markets crashed? Can you imagine how many old people would be working at WalMart, since their SS would have been cut in half? And did you know that before SS, thousands of older Americans simply starved to death?
4. SCHIP: Healthcare insurance for children who would not otherwise have it – enormously preventive of school absence, long-term illness, loss of physical and mental development"

continued at link:
masbury.wordpress.com...

anyway, among other things, we are more secure from crime than in other countries; yes it is true that crime rate is high in the U.S., but at least we don't have to worry about genocides, daily explosions in malls and buildings, and a war breaking out in american soil anytime soon.

Second, we can speak ill of the government daily if we want, we can call ourselves communists, socialists, even fascists if we want, even if the majority of people will look at us with contempt. We can even start protests and let our voice be heard (if this actually works is a whole other issue). In other countries saying whatever you like can cost you your life.

Next, even if there is an increase in unemployment and homelessness, we are never really short of food. There is always enough to eat, even if we have no place to live, we can at least be sure to find some place that offers something to eat for free or at a low prize. This is most likely as a result of the U.S. being the highest producer of food in the world (which explains why the world views America as fat).

Last point I will make, we in the U.S. live relatively well compared to other countries. Unfortunately this comes at the expense of third-world countries, which are constantly raped for their natural resources (think of oil, companies that go to other nations for cheap labor, etc.)

Does this means I trust the government? NO. I never trust any government, for I view the good and bad done by a country. However, due to the reasons above, it really makes one understand why so many people apparently trust the government- they prefer higher security than extreme freedom. We still have some degree of freedom, but some of our liberties have been limited and restricted as a trade-off for higher security (whether this extra sense of security is a result of the government actually caring for the populace or just a way for the government to keep the populace appeased to gain more control is a whole other completely different issue).


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:27 PM by Janky Red
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss



Well I remind you they do have nukes and we are not all crispy growing extra parts yet.
They also regulate the airline industry and FLIGHT heavily which is now very safe, but can be backed up...

Point is something is better than nothing- when I am uninsured I have to buy my anti biotics at a fish store, their is not much dignity in that and it can kill me.


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 08:26 PM by LoneGunMan
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss



What you dont trust the Fire Dept.?

Sorry but private industry is not always the best approach. We have private ambulance services and they are a horror story compared to the government run services like your fire dept.

Dont listen to the spin doctors please, there are think tanks that are paid by private industry that shape your opinion.


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 08:53 PM by dizzie56
What I dont get is that Im on a conspiracy website that most people here im sure would agree think that the US gov is corrupt as hell. Im willing to bet that even a lot of the people that are for health care have made posts that have been a complaint to our government's way of doing things. What I dont understand is that if you cant trust the government on some issues here and there (911, roswell, BIG industry running the world, etc), then why on Earth are you so willing to just hand over the control of your health to them? This really dumbfounds me to be honest. Im willing to bet that the majority of the people here have at least a small distrust in the government, but yet they are willing to fork over their lives to them? What happened to haveing "only my balls and my word"?

Its ok to distrust the gov or some NWO in some way that you try and justify but yet you are perfectly happy with giving said bad government control over whether you live or die? All the socialist, obama isnt eligible, NWO is out to control the world type arguements aside...how can someone that distrusts another give the person that they disturst complete control over their health and livelyhood? This is really confusing to me and ive posted this question in another thread or two to no avail. OP, good luck getting an answer other than, "But (insert random country with a somewhat socialists economy and health care system name)'s health care system works just fine for them and it will work just fine here as well." We, the US, are not that other country. If we were, it might work and it might not. But, since we are not like that country in almost any way, it is irrelivent.


reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 08:59 PM by dizzie56
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Your title is totally deceiving.

We wouldn't be trusting the government with our health.
We would be trusting the government with the COST of our health care.

Big difference, but nice try.

The doctors, nurses and hospitals will still be dealing with our health.

The cost of our veterans health care is in the governments hands.
The cost of the elderly's health care is in the government's hands.
The cost of our representatives' health care is in the governments hands.
The cost of many countries' citizens' health care is in their governments hands (like Canada) and most people LOVE it.

Right now, the cost of our health care is in the corporations' hands... I guess it all depends on whom you trust more: the government or the corporations... I'm willing to give the government a chance as I KNOW how much the corporations care about me.


When the gov has control over our costs of health care, they also have control of what they are going to pay or not...ie, rationing of health care.

Our vet's care sucks. Our elderly's care sucks. Our rep's care is awesome (gee, i wonder why). We are not canada/denmark/ireland/britain etc. We are the US. We the people are different then the people in the other countries.

I say we give the government a chance to help as well, just not the way of a public option, but haveing the government get out of the way for a while. The insurance companies have been highly regulated since their inception. Why not take the government out of the equation first and see what happens. If it doesnt work, we can always insert a public option can we not? Why just jump to the conclusion of it not working?



reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 10:02 PM by Tippys Dad
If you are basing how the US would run nationalized health care by looking at the VA system, we are in big trouble. I am a disabled veteran and have to rely on the VA for my health care because it's what I can afford. It's horrible health care based within an antiquated system. Two quick examples:

1) I was told by the VA to go to our local emergency room in the event of an emergency rather than drive 90 miles to their facility. I was bit by a spider, had an allergic reaction, stopped breathing, and was transported by ambulance to the local ER. As soon as I was coherent - within hours - I let the hospital know to contact VA. They did. VA denied my claim and I had to pay out of my own pocket - thousands! They sent me a form letter stating it was because of "one of the following reasons" and listed several reasons. I called VA and asked for what specific reason I was denied, but no one knew the answer. It was obvious no one really cared either.

2) I was advised by the VA to have a procedure done. I contacted the appropriate VA clinic six times but never received a call back. I contacted the VA patient liason, but never received a reply back. I contacted my Congressman, but never received a call back. I picked up the phone and started calling numbers at the VA and was finally told, "Yes, we're having problems with that department." Sixty days later, I still have not made an appointment for what I was told was a critical test.

I won't bore you with years of incompetent care. These are two recent examples that come to mind. The facility is the VA Hospital in Iowa City, IA. The Iowa congressman I'm still waiting for a call from is David Loebsack.

The VA health system is broke beyond repair. They need to close the VA hospitals and clinics and allow veterans to be treated at their local hospitals. We'd get better service and the taxpayers would save money.

Bottom Line: The government should not be in the health care business!


reply posted on 2-11-2009 @ 09:52 AM by dizzie56
reply to post by Snarf



Yes, it is sick that this has happened before. But, their is a downside to everything. According to wiki, 55% of the care that is provided goes unpaid.

en.wikipedia.org...

What happens when a company, hospital or not, cannot collect on 55% of the work that it performs? It shifts the cost onto those who can pay. So, essentially, we are allready paying for the people who dont have health insurance so nobody that is for health insurance can really complain about the fact that their bills when they go to the hospital are high. If we institute a public option, the cost is not going to go away, it will just be shifted to us in the form of taxes. Instead of paying a higher amount when you get a procedure done, you now just make less money. So how is this really reform? Its really just passing the buck to be honest.

Also, when companies cannont collect on 55% of what is owed, the majority of the time they must close unless they have private funding. What happens when hospitals close class? Their then is a shortage of hospitals and therefore a rationing of care. What happens when the nearest hospital to you is 25 miles away instead of it being a couple blocks away like it used to be and you are in transport due to a heart attack? Most of the time you die. Again, how is this reform?

I would trust companies more than I trust politicians. At least companies have a back bone, politicians are more than willing to sell you down the river if it will get them an extra fundraiser or two in their back pocket.
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