Islamist dies in FBI Detroit raid

Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by Oldnslo

 

I resist the approach. But I accept that cultures wishing to become American must either conform to the existing clearly stated laws and customs or simply understand that they do not wish to be American.

However we live in an environment were much exists to complicate the matter.

Do you not see any Muslim communities that are honorable, law abiding, and 'regular' people? I could only understand the xenophobic attitude toward them if they were invaders, criminals, usurpers, or enemies of the state.

You can't possibly be stating that these people qualify simply because they subscribe to the Koran - or claim to?

Is this the first honor killing that you noticed?
Again, no one is talking about individual muslims. No one ever is. This isn't a matter of individual muslims. This isn't a matter of islamophobia or zenophibia. Please understand that Islam laughs at Westerners for that myth yet will use the behavior to describe naive dhimmis.

Go ahead, fall into being an apologist, open your arms and welcome muslims... they will cut your throat in the end because that's their religious duty.

Originally posted by kiwifoot

I find the whole Islamist angle odd, .........

I suppose that may just have been the FBI's reason to bring this 'Islamist' in.

Detroit News: Detroit mosque leader killed in FBI raids
....snip...
Abdullah, 53, also known as Christopher Thomas, was the local leader of a black Muslim group that calls itself "Ummah," or the brotherhood, and wants to establish a separate state within the United States governed by Sharia law, Interim U.S. Attorney Terrence Berg and Andrew Arena, FBI special agent in charge in Detroit, said in a joint statement.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by kiwifoot]

OK all you appologists. You seem to be missing the most important part of the whole story.
You go, ha ha how could he establish sharia law etc....

I am astonished at your shallow thinking.
You are unaware of just how powerful these groups can become.
These Islamists are already terrorizing Politically Correct white folk all over Euruope and the US, who have been brow beaten into accepting them among their midst.
It seems that No One has the courage to stand up to being called a "racist". Somehow it seems that racists are worse than pedophiles in the minds of the PC brainwashed crowd.
Quit the apologetics and grow a back bone.

Call it what it is; a subversive movement.

Do you think we should stand for this for one minute?
These people are serious.
Do you think we should just laugh it off?

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Ok, a criminal was shooting it out with the F.B.I. and was killed.

Ok, why was it needed to mention his religion or religious affiliation???

No, seriously, As I see it, it has no impact and only serves to inflame an already hot religious issue.

To be clear, the last two lines were being said to the BBC, not the OP.
*Edited to add above line for clarity sake.

[edit on 10/28/2009 by mrmonsoon]

The media like to add things just to make it sound like more than it is. they do it all the time. Like last year there was this man that went off and shoot some people and all the news could say was "ex-marine". It was "ex-marine" this and "ex-marine" that. The man had left the marines 35 years ago! So what did that have to do with his shooting? NOTHING, nothing at all but the media just had to add that to make it sound like more than it was.

...wants to establish a separate state within the United States governed by Sharia law, ....

The only place this could happen would be on a Native American Reservation.

Do you see any state in this Union giving up space for this?

This isn't the European Union. All detractors aside, the United States of America is far from the scrawny 99-pound weakling the technicians think it to be. We will not be swayed by intimidation of any kind. I find it amazing that the global community repeatedly forgets what this country can do if pushed too far.

Many fundamentalists flavors fear us, and rightly so. It is why we are a constant target. They come in fear. The prey on the fear to be 'politically' relevant to their own people. They are using us to be heroes at home.

I don't fear their agenda because I see no legal framework in this country to accommodate such a demand. Except emigration. Go figure.

I think the mod overlooked one fact in his posts. Regardless of the faith there will always be people who will use it as a shield. Notice the trend with Imans being the guys in charge? The religion gets used to further some wanna be "savior" and what he wants.

The thing that gets me is Islam is trying to adjust to the modern era. Just like Christianity has tried. Religion and modern society just don't mix to well. A educated populace prevents cult activity to some degree. When you have only 1 person who can read everyone else has to trust the guy reading the book is telling you the real deal. The question is how hard will the leaders in Muslim countries try and hold on.

reply to post by Snarf

What if he had killed a police officer in this tirade of idiocy?

That officer was just doing his job. What if he had a wife and child? Is that fair? Does that still make this guy only a suspect and not a criminal?

He did kill an officer. Canines are considered officers just as humans are, and afforded the same rights by law as officers. Killing a canine officer carries the same penalties as a human officer.

Originally posted by Maxmars

...wants to establish a separate state within the United States governed by Sharia law, ....

The only place this could happen would be on a Native American Reservation.

Do you see any state in this Union giving up space for this?

This isn't the European Union. All detractors aside, the United States of America is far from the scrawny 99-pound weakling the technicians think it to be. We will not be swayed by intimidation of any kind. I find it amazing that the global community repeatedly forgets what this country can do if pushed too far.

Many fundamentalists flavors fear us, and rightly so. It is why we are a constant target. They come in fear. The prey on the fear to be 'politically' relevant to their own people. They are using us to be heroes at home.

I don't fear their agenda because I see no legal framework in this country to accommodate such a demand. Except emigration. Go figure.

Hello again

I felt compelled to reply to this post, as I feel you are seriously underestimating the undercurrent the US is facing against radical Islam.

To state there is no way for Sharia law to happen in the US is blatantly false, as some government agencies have already made preliminary moves to do exactly that. Your perhaps being unaware of this doesn't make it not a fact, sadly.

The US Treasury Department has sent their employess to courses since 2008 for Islamic Finance 101, and the US Treasury has adopted Sharia Banking law. They are not alone by far, as other banking institutions, as well as the stock market are doing the same.

To underestimate the power is exactly what they want. Regardless, the undercurrent is there, and people are too afraid of PC to speak out about it, for fear of being called racists.

Just as an FYI:

U.S. financial institutions, reeling from the credit crunch, are hungrily eyeballing more than $1 trillion in petrodollars, including Shariah-compliant bonds, mutual funds, mortgages, insurance, hedge funds, and real estate investment trusts.

Dow Jones Corp. has even created its own index for Islamic-correct investments: the Dow Jones Islamic Index, according to The Coalition to Stop Shariah.

Enter Uncle Sam, the always cash-strapped giant that must feed at any convenient trough these days, regardless of what strings are attached.

And what a trough it is. The global Shariah market is growing at a 15 percent pace, courtesy of the oil boom and resurgence in Islamic fundamentalism, according to the Center for Security Policy. It’s expected to more than double during the next 10 years.

www.newsmax.com...


I continue to stand by my statement that I believe him being an Islamist was an important part of the story, as were the statements in the article about his intent.

And the blow-back? That's the price we have to pay for standing up to extremism.

I would rather that than to have our heads cut off at another date, or to be afraid to put our children on a school bus because it might blow up that morning. It isn't to that point yet, but it will come if we keep bowing to this religous PC fear.

Those attending were staff from US Banking Regulatory Agencies, Congress, The Department of the Treasury, and "other parts of the executive branch."

One fact of adopting Sharia Compliant Finance: You must obey Sharia Law to do so. Thus begins the slippery slope of Sharia in the US.

Another fact of SCF: 15% of profits are returned to Muslims, and very well may go to support terrorism. There is no way to know, nor to prevent this from happening. In other words, we are paying for our own demise!

As an important monograph on the subject recently issued by the McCormick Foundation and the Center for Security Policy (for copies contact the Center at www.SecureFreedom.org) makes clear, these authorities are, unsurprisingly, adherents to Shariah. A number of them explicitly embrace its call to jihad (including a former senior member of the Dow Jones Islamic Index, Sheik Taqi Usmani). This "holy war" is to be waged where possible through violent means, where necessary through "soft" means like Shariah-Compliant Finance. For this reason, such Islamists call SCF "financial jihad."

What makes Shariah-Compliant Finance even more dangerous than subprime is that, in its effort to legitimize and institutionalize Shariah in America, it is advancing a criminal conspiracy whose purpose is the violent overthrow of the United States Constitution and government in favor of Islamic rule. That would make it sedition.

www.washingtontimes.com...

usastopshariah.wordpress.com...

I hope you understand that I am simply pointing out that perhaps you have some misunderstandings of Islam and Muslims, or the power that the radical extremist groups have, and just what it does mean for the US.

If the article had *not* pointed out that he was Islamist, and gone on to explain why he was being investigated, and why the incident and his death occurred, I could have foreseen a much more chaotic blow-back happening.

Therefor, the point of him being Islamist went from being important to fairly much being required information in this article.

reply to post by hangedman13


I very much agree with your statments about the Imams. Right now, in the US, there are a large number of terrorist training camps operating with the full knowledge of the government. Last count I saw was about 35, but it is probably much higher. I heard in Georgia alone, there were 6.

The only reason they are unable to do anything about this is because they are operating under the guise of religion, and using Mosques.

The information contained within the federal complaint against the Detroit suspects is clear: Islamists in the US are advocating the spread of Islam through the use of violent jihad, and they are utilizing mosques and Islamic centers as their training grounds. The Northeast Intelligence Network has warned about this very issue, and even provided evidence of such activities.
(snip)
“We’re talking about professional Muslim men, mosque leaders, leaders within our communities who are actually helping young men train for the eventuality of urban combat. They know what they are doing, yet they lie right to our faces about these activities- and we’re told by our supervisors that we have to accept what they tell us at face value when they know damn well they are lying.” -Federal source, speaking on condition of anonymity

homelandsecurityus.com...

There are many more substantial links to follow up on this information and can be easily found on google, if you wish.

Originally posted by hangedman13
The question is how hard will the leaders in Muslim countries try and hold on.

According to Islam and current examples, forever at full force. Their 7 phase plan is documented and moving forward without any signs of stopping.

reply to post by Maxmars

Max, your pants are down.
So glad many other posters realize that apologists are our weakness.
We have a long battle ahead without a full taste of what will come because of the ease of infiltration of the US. It's a good idea now to prepare instead of wasting time by being skeptical.

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by Maxmars

 

Max, your pants are down.
So glad many other posters realize that apologists are our weakness.
We have a long battle ahead without a full taste of what will come because of the ease of infiltration of the US. It's a good idea now to prepare instead of wasting time by being skeptical.

Well, how embarrassing for me - ever the apologist!

My case apology(?) thus far:

1. A suspect is a suspect until a court of law declares them guilty of a crime
   
2. This is a sensitive case because of the propensity for it to be characterized as oppressive action targeted against Muslims in particular
   
3. It has not been established that the crime in questions has something to do with the faith of the accused.
   

On point A I have had to contend with the objection that he fired at the law enforcement officers - thus making him a criminal.

This is legally incorrect. Guilt of a crime is not presumed in this country - ever. We accept as a community that no matter how the facts are reported by either side, the system must determine and validate the facts via due process.

On Point B I confess we are treading on my personal opinion that vilifying any group of people is usually proven to be an incorrect approach to solving a social problem; I have seen it done with Catholics, Jews, Atheists, Gays, Japanese, French, German, Irish, Italians, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Homeless persons, Free Masons.... etc. etc. - there is always a reason to go down this path and it has yet to be the right path to have taken.

I will grant that you may perceive it as a mamby-pamby liberal douche hippie position. Well, that is your opinion and you're welcome to it.

On point C you may prove to be correct when (if the media follows the story in an unbiased manner) the details regarding the FBI's case against him shows that he was indeed involved in treason, sedition, or whatever capital offense against the nation you feel is 'inherently' part of his cultural identity as a Muslim.

The Sharia Law specter that you are raising is a point of misunderstanding. You seem to contend that financial institutional policy is being adjusted to accommodate the general restrictions against usury and exploitation to have weight in the UCC may be sinister in intent - some backhanded way of surrending the legal framework to have us stoning our daughters and chopping of hands of accused shoplifters.

But I fail to see how policy is becoming a law? The banking community may be globalizing the inclusion, but that is not the same as law.

Are our legislators actually voting and arguing on these matters? Which bill or proposal can I review to make an analysis of how religion is being interwoven with the law against our traditional national character? I may be ignorant of this and therefore guilty of the offense.



There seems to be a conspiratorial allusion being given to Islamic faith. I find that suspect only because I find it difficult to accept that 300 Million Americans will be oblivious to any enforcement in this direction (unless it is done secretly).


More importantly, I want those of you who have been discussing the matter to understand something - I value and encourage your continued vigilance and willingness to discuss the matter. It is of vital importance to our community to have all the facts - which I can confidently say that none of us have. Perhaps together, we can get closer to a fuller collection of the facts.

Taken as a whole, our collection of views and information can serve us all well. Just stop thinking of me as an adversary and we can gain ground on the topic. I'm not struggling to change your minds, nor am I closed to changing mine. But cynical comments and snide remarks don't make a good case.

Right now I see a shameful event that can be used by the divisive in either direction. That worries me, because in a world that is is represented by a majority of people who simply 'consume' news; those with the public ear can inadvertently or otherwise create hatred where none should exist.

And yes, there are those who already hate us and wish us ill. There are also those who foster and use that hatred for their own personal agendas. You keep vigilant on your perspective - I will keep vigilant on mine.

For the record mine is; if you think you can rationalize why I must fear, hate, or suspect my Muslim neighbor as a matter of principle, I will be inquiring as to exactly why that is, and whether the claim is because of personal bias. It isn't about you personally, it's about needing more than supposition to create an enemy where there may be no enemy.

Originally posted by Maxmars

1. A suspect is a suspect until a court of law declares them guilty of a crime
   
2. This is a sensitive case because of the propensity for it to be characterized as oppressive action targeted against Muslims in particular
   
3. It has not been established that the crime in questions has something to do with the faith of the accused.
   

You're missing the whole point. The suspect doesn't respect or go by American law.
Just because you do it doesn't mean that muslims do. We have a new set of criminals who are implimenting and following Sharia Law within the US... hello. Of course the US LE will follow US law, no one is questioning that nor should they.

Please understand this enemy, it's important that more people don't have their pants down.
;-)

[edit on 1-11-2009 by JJay55]

Quote Maxmars: “. We will not be swayed by intimidation of any kind.”

****Oh, but we are swayed by intimidation all the time. The squeaky wheel always get the grease. Those who pushed for equality got instead, preferential treatment, and more. We tip-toe around issues so as not to upset them.
Then there is that amnesty for illegals. We are intimidated by the sheer numbers of them.

The cry of “Racist” sends us into paroxysms of well conditioned guilt.

How long do you think it will be before parts of the SW US are ceded to Mexico/Atzlan?
The White folk who built this country are down to 49% in some areas. How long before the “other” demand Autonomy? We have seen this happen in Europe or Eur-Asia.
It won’t need a legal framework. Congress can pass laws to suit the situation as they have always done. Or the Prez can whip out one of the long ago prepared Executive Orders. “Stroke of the Pen; Law of the Land.”

And didn’t we put away Christmas Decorations so as not to offend the Muslims.
And we are not supposed to say “Merry Christmas” any more…so as not to offend.

“A suspect is a suspect until a court of law declares them guilty of a crime
This is a sensitive case because of the propensity for it to be characterized as oppressive action targeted against Muslims in particular
It has not been established that the crime in questions has something to do with the faith of the accused. “

****Except that in this case the “suspect” is a known subversive and may rightly be considered a real Enemy Combatant; a member of the Army of the Enemy …In which case Gun him Down and ask questions afterwards.

Showing leniency is a sign of Weakness.

Max is a good example of Christian pluralism, they give everyone the benefit of the doubt, they accept others as humans, they think all religion is good and the people who have faith are good too.
Well Maxipoo, Islam doesn't think that way. Islam is not plural, there are no other religions equal to Islam, others are inferior. Christians and Jews are considered pigs and dogs in the grand scheme of things. It is the duty of muslims to obey and promote Sharia Law. So all your acceptance of them isn't going to change anything, only allow them to step on you like the doormat dhimmi you are.

It's ok not to accept Islam. You aren't obligated to accept everyone on the planet because Jesus was about love. We can say no and have zero tolerance for Sharia Law and we must.

reply to post by JJay55


There are no other religions equal to Islam?

I'm just guessing here, but i'd say more blood has been spilled in the name of Christianity than any other religion our planet has ever known.

Enjoy your soapbox rantings. You're generalizing. Only extremists are as you describe. It's not being apologetic.

It's being realistic.

Set aside your zeal for one second and perhaps you could see it as well.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by JJay55

 

There are no other religions equal to Islam?

I'm just guessing here, but i'd say more blood has been spilled in the name of Christianity than any other religion our planet has ever known.

Enjoy your soapbox rantings. You're generalizing. Only extremists are as you describe. It's not being apologetic.

It's being realistic.

Set aside your zeal for one second and perhaps you could see it as well.

That is correct, according to Islam there are no other religions equal to them. That is well known by all muslims.
Guess all you want, comparing bloodshed doesn't do a damn thing either.
Have a nice day.

reply to post by JJay55


The old testament doesn't say "Islam is equal"

The new testament doesn't say "Islam is equal"

No religion says any other religion is equal, because to do so would be to destroy that religions image of God.

It just disgusts me that you could allow so much bigotry in your life.

But...if you can live with it, who am i to judge?

I give MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR gratitude to the MSM networks to not going overboard with this as Major Al-Queda leader killed in U.S, as it easily could have been.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by JJay55

 

The old testament doesn't say "Islam is equal"

The new testament doesn't say "Islam is equal"

No religion says any other religion is equal, because to do so would be to destroy that religions image of God.

It just disgusts me that you could allow so much bigotry in your life.

But...if you can live with it, who am i to judge?

ummm. Ok, sorry I have to spell it out for you. The Koran says that Islam is superior and not others are equal.
Good luck to you.

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
I give MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR gratitude to the MSM networks to not going overboard with this as Major Al-Queda leader killed in U.S, as it easily could have been.

But the fact remains that there was an Islamic imam who was doing illegal things while operating in Detroit. There have been and will be others. Thanks to the law enforcement of the US these guys are being stopped. Major, major, major props to them!!!!!