Islamist dies in FBI Detroit raid

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Ok, a criminal was shooting it out with the F.B.I. and was killed.

Ok, why was it needed to mention his religion or religious affiliation???

No, seriously, As I see it, it has no impact and only serves to inflame an already hot religious issue.

To be clear, the last two lines were being said to the BBC, not the OP.
*Edited to add above line for clarity sake.

[edit on 10/28/2009 by mrmonsoon]

Are you kidding?

Are you people blind?
"Luqman Ameen Abdullah, the imam of Detroit's Masjid Al-Haqq (Mosque of Truth), was killed Wednesday in a shootout with FBI agents. The agents were trying to arrest him on charges of conspiracy, receipt of stolen goods, firearms offenses and more. Agents also arrested eight mosque members; then Thursday, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police caught Abdullah's son, Mujahid Carswell. Two other accused jihadists also fled, and have not yet been found."

Maybe we can stop apologizing for the peaceful muslims who have committed over 10000 incidents of terrorism since 911 and realize that they are violent and this violence is on US soil.
www.thereligionofpeace.com

Stop thinking in Western terms. The goal of this imam was to burn America, to convert every last American to Islam using force. This is not some US government conspiracy, this is real and will come into light more in 2010 as their plan unfolds.

Thanks to the FBI agents this thug and his cronies are off the street. But there are many more that will follow. Do not apologize, sympathize or be a dhimmi to these thugs, they are not peaceful law abiding citizens.

Originally posted by Maxmars
The FBI had better hope they were thoroughly within the confines of the law, or this could easily be an inspiration for blow-back.

Or perhaps there are many ways this 'event' should be scrutinized, if you care beyond the media consumption angle.

What kind of threat is this? Are you suggesting that muslims will riot over a cartoon of Mohammed. They will burn, vandalize and smash windows because someone insulted them with a cartoon? Or maybe they will run over their daughters and kill them because they are too Westernized. Maybe muslims will burn cars in Paris because some muslim kid killed himself running a roadblock. Yes, yes they will and we still won't except Sharia Law in the US.

This Detroit gang was carrying out placing Sharia Law in the US, do you know what that means?

Originally posted by JJay55

What kind of threat is this? Are you suggesting that muslims will riot over a cartoon of Mohammed. They will burn, vandalize and smash windows because someone insulted them with a cartoon? Or maybe they will run over their daughters and kill them because they are too Westernized. Maybe muslims will burn cars in Paris because some muslim kid killed himself running a roadblock. Yes, yes they will and we still won't except Sharia Law in the US.

This Detroit gang was carrying out placing Sharia Law in the US, do you know what that means?

Evidently, I really don't understand. First off, I can't acknowledge that I made or implied any threat anywhere. I expect that if the FBI takes its usual tactic of 'because we said so' when confronted over details of the case, those who sympathize with the deceased - most likely only because of his proclaimed 'faith' - can and probably will, use the event as a reason to rail against the US as persecuting them.

Also, even if the FBI presents a well-organized proper chain of events and case history to justify the incident, some media outlets will STILL portray the matter as having to do with his faith rather than his crime.

I've seen this before way too many times, some punk or mobster wanna-be slaps on a label and bills himself as a Muslim, and the next thing you see is the claim that all his crimes are excuses to persecute people of Islamic faith.

It's that nasty ham-handed authoritarian construct that opens the door to this kind of posturing.

As far as any gang's ability to place Sharia law in this country - well.., you'll have to explain how that is happening, I hadn't heard that claim before. I know that Muslim communities have managed to get special treatment in financial matters, but not matters of civil or criminal law. So I can't really answer that part of your apparent objection.

You do know what I was referring to when I used the phrase 'blow-back' yes?

You're kidding.

A guy named Abdullah was Muslim?

A Muslim radical was illegally selling guns?

This from such a peaceful religion - I'm shocked.

Good work, FBI.

Originally posted by dooper
You're kidding.

A guy named Abdullah was Muslim?

A Muslim radical was illegally selling guns?

This from such a peaceful religion - I'm shocked.

Good work, FBI.

Yeah, some people just don't get it.
911x12 coming soon, many will be blindsided.

Here we go, here we go.
"Muslim leaders called for justice today at the funeral of Luqman Ameen Abdullah, the Islamic leader killed by FBI agents this week during a shootout in Dearborn.''We are looking for justice,'' said Imam Mohammed Elahi of the Islamic House of Wisdom to a packed crowd that spilled outside. ''The closest road to Allah is justice. May Allah bless his soul.'' Elahi said.
''Allah Akbar,'' God is great, the packed crowd said at times during the funeral.The casket of Abdullah is now on its way to a cemetery in Canton."

Regrouping and more violence to come. That will be a good chance to round up these thugs and put them in jail.
Did you expect peaceful demonstrations and maybe a change from violence? Islam promote violence. Proven daily.

double::post

[edit on 31-10-2009 by JJay55]

reply to post by JJay55

Believe me, Muslims really, really don't want justice.

Justice is the very last thing Muslims want.

reply to post by Maxmars

A suspect - not a criminal was shot and killed.

umm, actually, once he started shooting at federal agents, he became a criminal.



blindly sticking up for an idiot criminal because you have a lack of regard for law doesn't make any sense.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Snarf]

Originally posted by JJay55
Here we go, here we go.
"Muslim leaders called for justice today at the funeral of Luqman Ameen Abdullah, the Islamic leader killed by FBI agents this week during a shootout in Dearborn.''We are looking for justice,'' said Imam Mohammed Elahi of the Islamic House of Wisdom to a packed crowd that spilled outside. ''The closest road to Allah is justice. May Allah bless his soul.'' Elahi said.
''Allah Akbar,'' God is great, the packed crowd said at times during the funeral.The casket of Abdullah is now on its way to a cemetery in Canton."

Regrouping and more violence to come. That will be a good chance to round up these thugs and put them in jail.
Did you expect peaceful demonstrations and maybe a change from violence? Islam promote violence. Proven daily.

Now please don't be offended JJay55. I am NOT intending to pick on you.

But I wanted to 'mark up' your post to ask if you notice anything about your post, as I did.

It is what I mean by a message that tells the reader how to feel......

I absolutely agree that criminals should be identified, and subjected to the common laws of our land.

But aside from the dead person, no one in your post has even been accused (yet) as a criminal. But your post flows in the rationality that they all are - considering how important it is to reiterate their choice of faith, doesn't that imply bias to you? Do you see what I mean?

I am not trying to engage you in a debate of what is right or wrong, only that you seem prone to express yourself - not that you mean to(?) - in what appears a divisive "group-speak."

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Maxmars]

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Maxmars

 

A suspect - not a criminal was shot and killed.

umm, actually, once he started shooting at federal agents, he became a criminal.



blindly sticking up for an idiot criminal because you have a lack of regard for law doesn't make any sense.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Snarf]

You should read the thread before responding. And no, his defense - if he had lived to defend himself - could just as likely say he was a suspect until he was confronted by aggressive thug-like law enforcement. It wouldn't matter if it were true or not. But unless you say a man was killed committing a crime, the OPs phrasing was suspect.

blindly sticking up for an idiot criminal because you have a lack of regard for law doesn't make any sense.

I agree; could you possibly be foolish enough to have meant that as a reference to me? Most unkind. Apparently, I have more regard for the law than you. You appeare to have more care for the message then the law..

reply to post by Maxmars

I agree; could you possibly be foolish enough to have meant that as a reference to me? Most unkind. Apparently, I have more regard for the law than you. You appeare to have more care for the message then the law..

is that implying that by arguing a point against a moderator that i should be subject to termination?

But seriously though

If you get a ticket for speeding, you don't start a fist fight with the officer.
You fight it in court.

This guy started firing on FEDERAL AGENTS. If he was truly innocent, then he should have went about it the right way.

I realize it's terrible to be arrested when (or if) you're innocent, but you shed your innocence when you started shooting at law enforcement.

What if he had killed a police officer in this tirade of idiocy?

That officer was just doing his job. What if he had a wife and child? Is that fair? Does that still make this guy only a suspect and not a criminal?

Common sense should prevail in situations like this. You approach someone because they're a suspect.

They shoot at you with guns.

Do you just ask them to kindly stop shooting so you can leave?

Come on...give me a break.

You should read the thread before responding.

oh, but you see, i have.

Just because i disagree with you, does not make me an idiot. No matter how much you may or may not wish that to be.


[edit on 31-10-2009 by Snarf]

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Maxmars

 

I agree; could you possibly be foolish enough to have meant that as a reference to me? Most unkind. Apparently, I have more regard for the law than you. You appeare to have more care for the message then the law..

is that implying that by arguing a point against a moderator that i should be subject to termination?

You will obey!!!

Nah, I'm not like that. I forgot I was a Mod. (sounds silly, I know)

If you get a ticket for speeding, you don't start a fist fight with the officer.
You fight it in court.

This guy started firing on FEDERAL AGENTS. If he was truly innocent, then he should have went about it the right way.

You're absolutely correct, and the guy's common sense is more than questionable. Committing a crime at the point of arrest does not convey innocence of the accusation.

From what I can see of the case, this was an organized crime activity - which happened to be confined to members of a common faith - who may even more likely to have engaged in the most repulsive use of their faith as a shield to enable their criminal activities.

One can't know the detail on these things until the tale is told, so I can't see why we should stoke up cultural hatred in the meantime.

Maybe I'm over-zealous. If so, I apologize to everyone.

What if he had killed a police officer in this tirade of idiocy?

"What if...?" is a game of philosophers. ("What if Angels sat on pinheads?")
It can as easily be argued "what if the suspect was innocent of the crimes of which he was accused, and in a rage of righteous indignation (as we can all imagine happens) lost sight of his circumstances and fired a weapon on what he felt were 'infidel oppressors'? What if is a dead-end for now; and besides I already agree the man shares responsibility in his own death.

Common sense should prevail in situations like this. You approach someone because they're a suspect.

They [the suspect(s)] shoot at you with guns.

Do you just ask them to kindly stop shooting so you can leave?

No, you return fire, or follow your orders or training.

Look, I did not say that a miscarriage of justice took place, I simply said that I hope the authorities behaved in an exemplary manner, because any room for doubt in the matter will become a spark to ignite the worst kind of conflict and friction.

It's amazing how diligently some seem to dig a cultural groove between peoples. All Muslims are not criminals. Islam is not the enemy, criminals are.

You should read the thread before responding.

oh, but you see, i have.

Just because i disagree with you, does not make me an idiot.

You are no idiot. Let it not be said that I would ever say or even believe such a thing.

My intent was to reference the fact that I had addressed you objection, as I understood it, before. Perhaps I was wrong. I humbly apologize.

Be well.

reply to post by Maxmars


I certainly appreciate, and agree with, the idea that not all Muslims are Criminals.

Just like not all Christians believe the world was created 7000 years ago.

And i also agree that it was kind of ... unnecessary to put "Islamist" in the headliner of the news story...but it just goes to prove that there are stupid people no matter where we look.

Christian
Muslim
Jewish
Agnostic
Atheist

Only two things are infinite.. the universe, and human stupidity. And I''m not sure about the former - Albert Einstein

The Muslim leaders don't want justice, they simply want to undermine the rule of law to further their agenda by hamstringing the FBI and other law enforcement agencies in future investigations.

I have long feared groups like this. It shows that the threat of Islamic fundamentalism is alive and strong under the surface and that we can't afford to deny and fiddle our thumbs.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
The Muslim leaders don't want justice, they simply want to undermine the rule of law to further their agenda by hamstringing the FBI and other law enforcement agencies in future investigations.

I have long feared groups like this. It shows that the threat of Islamic fundamentalism is alive and strong under the surface and that we can't afford to deny and fiddle our thumbs.

I agree, this is what is happening in Europe as well as Detroit. They want the US Constitution supplanted by Shariah Law here in the US, worldwide for that matter.

And Max you've forgotten rule number 1 in dealing with any "armed" law enforcement personnel in performance of their duty:

Pull a gun on a LEO/FBI or whatever and your remaining time on this earth is numbered in seconds. It is the worst possible thing you can do. And you should know better. Most of us do!!!!!

Some Muslins just need just a bit more more enculturation into OUR society. I'm not interested in any more excuses from the more enlightened ones. Get with the %@#&*^ program or move on.

Originally posted by Maxmars
It's amazing how diligently some seem to dig a cultural groove between peoples. All Muslims are not criminals. Islam is not the enemy, criminals are.:

Typical Westerner. Understand that Islam and government are one in the same. Islam is not plural. Islam promotes criminal behavior, it's the law. That law is being promoted in the US. This has nothing to do with muslims individually, common mistake.

You might be a nice person and peacemaker but your words don't make sense or apply to muslims or in the fight against muslims who are pushing Sharia Law in the US, which is a criminal act.

reply to post by Oldnslo


Unfortunately there are people (Westerners) who think all religion is peaceful and loving and... peaceful. This is just not realistic.

reply to post by Oldnslo


I resist the approach. But I accept that cultures wishing to become American must either conform to the existing clearly stated laws and customs or simply understand that they do not wish to be American.

However we live in an environment were much exists to complicate the matter.

Do you not see any Muslim communities that are honorable, law abiding, and 'regular' people? I could only understand the xenophobic attitude toward them if they were invaders, criminals, usurpers, or enemies of the state.

You can't possibly be stating that these people qualify simply because they subscribe to the Koran - or claim to?