Palestinians' Water Cut 'To A Trickle'

reply to post by mattpryor


My exact search was UN admits Israel did not shell Gaza UN school

The only hits I received from articles were from JPost and the one you already posted, other than that it was a bunch of blogs discussing the story or commentary by "vindicated Jews" all of which had motives. Interesting side note, page 3 of search pulled up an ATS thread on the topic.

The reason why I am less than inclined to believe it is that first the clear motivation, and second this was confirmed and published by Feb 2. seems too quick for the UN to put out a result, let's face it.

reply to post by searching4truth


Here's the Wikipedia article about it (not entirely trustworthy either, admittedly):

Several news reports initially stated that the attack directly hit the school itself, and that the victims had taken refuge there to escape the fighting between the IDF and Palestinian militants.[5][6][14] The response, before it was learned that the school itself was not attacked, lead to a renewed push for a cease-fire in the Gaza War.[6][7] The attack had created a public outcry and prompted condemnation from Secretary General of the United Nations Ban Ki Moon, members of the news media, and international aid agencies.[14] Numerous testimonies from local residents confirmed later that militants fired mortars from a location close to the school compound and that none of those who had taken refuge in the school got killed.[15][16]

Wiki

reply to post by ModernAcademia


LOL, here we go. Wondered how long it would take before someone accused me of being part of the big bad Zionist conspiracy.

Heaven forbid that someone would have their own opinion which doesn't conform to the trend of slating Israel at every opportunity.

Of course Palestinians don't need an internet army, they just need a load of people with too much time on their hands and who are willing to believe every ghoulish accusation against Israel and gleefully repeat it parrot fashion. Plenty of those to go round.

And Judea/Samaria was the name of the region before King Hussein of Jordan renamed it after annexing it in 1950 to remove the Jewish claim to it. I get lazy though, tend to use the terms interchangeably.

Edit: Thanks for the reminder BTW, I'll try to make sure I use the CORRECT term in future - i.e. Judea and Samaria

[edit on 28-10-2009 by mattpryor]

reply to post by silo13


when you pick you jaw back up please let me know the wars that Israel has started in the middle east.
You vilify Israel for bombing the area or making raids into the camp to seek out those firing on Isralies, so now when they try another approch you vilify them for that. Seems to me the only thing you would have Israel do is sit back and take everything these idiots want to dish out.
You and those of your political ilk purposely hide from the truth hoping that no one sees the glaring hypocrasy of your argument.
Israel is doing the whole middle east a favor by trying to clear out the pig sty on their border.

reply to post by mattpryor


Matt,

Take heart.

Since another poster could not argue the facts, they attack you personally.

What they are saying is, Matt, your right and I can't argue the facts, so I will attack you instead.

Whenever you see this, just know your linkable proven facts can not be challenged, so you get attacked personally.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


oh lookie lookie everyone
someone didn't read my posts

I am all for debates and I often engage in them with links
most of the times, almost always i provide links

but of course, i'm only human and sometimes I WILL wonder WTHHHHHHHHHHH

There are like 3 or 4 posters on ATS
And they defend the israeli govt. to no end no matter what they do

Of course I am going to wonder why
I mean i'm only human

But I do apologize for disliking genocide and apartheids

Enough. Discuss the topic and ATS members are NOT the topic.

Originally posted by intrepid
Enough. Discuss the topic and ATS members are NOT the topic.

Yep - I started this thread and I ducked out of it about 7 pages ago... I tell you it's the last thread I will start on Israel / Palestine issues because they always and without fail seem to go this way.

reply to post by mattpryor


Oh wiki, lol, you know once on a description about alien groups the article had the "lines" of what sounded like a skin flick, lol, to their credit it was removed within a day or so But that's neither here nor there.


I'll keep the article under my hat though. My only reservation about it, other than wiki itself (not a huge fan see the above it still amuses me) is two fold. First, again the references to it not occurring were from Israeli based papers Haaretz and Jerusalem post. The bulk of their sources were from papers reporting the initial confirmations, including articles by the above.

I did find this which seems to indicate from the UN that the fatalities did occur outside of the school. So, in light of this I suppose I'll concede on this point. I'm still left with questions such as, if this took place outside the school how did EVERYONE get it so wrong? If this is correct, why did Israel initially claim that the nonexistent Hamas fighters in the building were firing at them and they acted in self defense? You see it is yet another instance where the official answer only provides us, or at least me with more questions. Unfortunately, while we are debating technicalities there were a number of innocents that lost their lives, which is a tragedy.

You know, while we are discussing this I do find it very odd that it wouldn't have been reported in the States. I mean, our media is very pro Israel, so why wouldn't the retraction have aired anywhere? See, again more questions .

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

IDF wear their uniform with pride. Unlike Hamas, who take it off so they can put civilian clothes on and wave a white flag when things look nasty.

Course IDf would wear their uniform in pride when targeting innocent civillians with their scopes.

When they faced hezbollah guirellas in 2006 they didn't seem very proud of their uniform.

Originally posted by Phedreus
reply to post by silo13

 

Israel is doing the whole middle east a favor by trying to clear out the pig sty on their border.

israel is the pig sty of middle east.

If not cleared this pig sty will soon start WW3.

personally I think that those in power want all the land they can get and I don't think amnesty has any real reason to lie and there are certainly troops that would love to see palestine disappear so this story seems believable for sure.

on the other hand palestine will still be a 3rd world place no matter what so who knows whats really best.

reply to post by merkava


I m not sure how to reply to such a reasoned argument

You should all watch the documentary "Flow", it's about the corporate takeover of the world's water sources. There is water genocide going on all over the world.

reply to post by searching4truth


I agree it's all very odd.

My theory is that when the accusations came out the Israeli government and representatives didn't know what the hell had happened. War is a messy, chaotic business and every shell does not get logged and reported to the politicians and media straight away. But the media and the UN wanted answers immediately. IDF, being ultra conscious about their international image, wanted to respond quickly even though they probably didn't have the information.

I guess the first instinct was to assume that the IDF wouldn't have fired on a school for no reason, therefore there must have been Hamas operatives inside the school so this was the line they took. Only later it turned out that they hadn't fired inside the school but outside the school.

The confusion and backtracking made the whole thing seem more like a cover up, whereas I think it was a desperation to get an explanation out even though they didn't really know what had actually taken place. Maybe they would have been better off refusing to comment until more details were available.

As for the media, I don't think they're as pro-Israeli as you believe - they're just sensationalist. Viewing figures and newspaper sales are far more important than any ideological allegiances. IDF bombing the crap out of a UN school is big exciting news. Finding out that they actually didn't, and it was all a mistake, is not such big news, and makes the media look stupid for reporting it.

So much of Cast Lead was speculation and rumour which stuck, because enough people are willing to believe the worst about Israel. For example, one of the posters above mentioned the Al-Quds hospital which Israel supposedly destroyed. Big news at the time, and yet another example of the brutality of the IDF right? Yet afterwards, when the dust cleared, it turned out to be completely false.

Here is the photo of the "destroyed" hospital:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/027bdb3ad96e.jpg[/atsimg]

and here is a photo taken shortly after the war (you can make out the damage on the building to the right):

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c993bb88d5d0.jpg[/atsimg]

Not even the same building, it's down the road! And here is a Red Cross report saying the hospital would be back up and running once the water pipes had been repaired.

Now perhaps you will understand why when I hear reports of Palestinians dying of thirst, IDF soldiers stealing spleens, etc, I'm more than a little sceptical. Especially when the claims are made by Palestinians and repeated by organisations such as Amnesty and HRW which frankly are not friends of Israel.

And worth remember always that there are a LOT of people in the world who have a vested financial, ideological and political interest in making Israel look like a monster.

I definitely agree that war is a messy business. My main concern is for the people that live there, both sides honest, but the situation in Gaza is one in which I am very familiar and the fact is I do feel that it is little more than a glorified concentration camp.

As far as the state simply assuming that it happened without confirmation, and assuming there must have been a gunman inside (as per their initial confirmation) only makes me wonder in how many instances this occurs. It seems like the defacto explanation and it seems it bit them in the behind this time around. Which would then call into question the instances that Israel claims Hamas fired rockets or anything else and there in no damage.

When we look at all the houses and common places that were destroyed and the death tolls (number of civilians v. combatants) it is quite alarming. That is not to say that there were not any combatants in homes, in all likelihood that is where they are based out of; however, the estimates I have seen put the number of homes destroyed at around 4000 leaving many more thousands homeless. Now, as the majority of these people were civilian non combatants, what is the likelihood that having their families killed or injured and their homes destroyed will not actively fight? Personally, if this was done to me, you can bet you sweet behind that I would be fighting against this person or group and who could blame me?

reply to post by searching4truth

I definitely agree that war is a messy business. My main concern is for the people that live there, both sides honest, but the situation in Gaza is one in which I am very familiar and the fact is I do feel that it is little more than a glorified concentration camp.

Look I can see that you are a humanitarian and a caring individual. But I honestly think you are being duped, and describing Gaza as a concentration camp devalues the term and is an injustice to people that have suffered in real concentration camps.

Concentration Camp:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7459233a5975.jpg[/atsimg]

Not a concentration camp:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9791e80b9c73.jpg[/atsimg]

I don't mind admitting that the situation in Gaza is far from ideal, but when Hamas starts to play nice and act like a responsible government Israel will ease the blockade. They are not starving and they are not dying of thirst or disease. Every picture, video I see shows that life is going on pretty normally in spite of the blockade.

The rest is just propaganda as far as I'm concerned, but if you have current images or video of all the suffering and hardship that I keep hearing about then I'll willingly change my mind.

lol i guess the Gazans are finally reaping their rewards...

They wanted Israelis out of Gaza. They got their wish and there's nothing wrong with that. Then, they "democratically elect" Hamas into office... (lmao imagine the American response if Canadians "democratically elected" Al-Qaeda or the Taliban into office) Seriously, "democratically electing" a gobally recognized terrorist group into power is usually not the smartest thing to do unless, of course, you're simply retarded or you've been completely brainwashed. Take your pick...

With a terrorist group now in power along their border, Israel (and Egypt) did the smart thing of sealing up their borders. Can you blame them?
Keep in mind that, while all these events are happening, Hamas is launching rockets into Israel. So they went from being "a terrorist group launching rockets into Israel" to "a government launching rockets into Israel", which is obviously an act/declaration of war... Now if you think that Israel will just bend over and take it like a whore, then you're clearly out of your f**kin mind.

And this leads us to today... Hamas still in power, so borders are still sealed off... Hamas still in power, resources are still limited... Hamas still in power, poverty is still increasing... The list goes on... It's not a secret that Israel is the one that supplies Gaza with fuel, water, electricity, food, etc. The people of Gaza should've taken this into account when they were electing a terrorist group into power, that refuses to recognize the existence of Israel and also calls for its destruction... Ah... now the moral quote... "You don't bite the hand that feeds you..." So honestly, I'm not surprised that the situation in Gaza has gotten this far.

And to all the Muslim/Anti-Israel media outlets out there: Keeping spinning every story to make Israel look bad. Keep preaching this hatred towards Israel. Keep encouraging Hamas to think that they are right and to continue to attack a country that is capable of levelling the whole Gaza Strip in less than a minute. Keeping pushing the buttons that will provoke a deadly response. In the end, you guys are only making it worse for the citizens of Gaza...

May God help you all...

[edit on 30-10-2009 by DJAghetto]

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
If the world wasn't watching, the Palestinian genocide would have been complete decades ago. It will happen though, ten or twenty years from now, they'll all be dead and it will be overlooked because of the timescale.

Agreed, but would the world be watching if the Palestinians didn't resist? Think about it, I saw a time frame when Palestinians didn't resort to violence, yet they didn't achieve anything, nor gain any attention from the international community.

I remember the first intifada, it was on the news...