Palestinians' Water Cut 'To A Trickle', page 11

After the hundredth thread like this, with all the creeps coming out of the woodwork, I've come to realize there really is no concern for Palestinians and their misery. These threads are created and contributed to most often by people who want to find any excuse to bash Israel, claim some worldwide Jewish conspiracy theory, articulate their hatred.

Since the state of Israel came into existence according to this article:

wasteofmyoxygen.wordpress.com...

“some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000, or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who perished were killed by fellow Muslims.”

Gunnar Heinsohn & Daniel Pipes, FrontPageMagazine, Oct 8, 2007

Every year for almost a decade, 50,000 people have been deprived of water, starved, murdered, raped, mutilated in an active genocide enacted by the Muslim Sudanese government. That's a child dying horribly every few minutes.

On this site I don't see hundreds of threads where the same people who are so outraged and indignant that Palestinians are suffering are also equally shocked and appalled when Muslims massacre others for land, resources, viciousness, or punishment for perceived transgressions.

It's always criticism of the Israeli government, it inevitably ends up equating Zionists to Nazis, it always extends to veiled suspicion of Jews and their political influence on the US.

It's all so grossly hypocritical. The Muslim world and it's advocates here produce rhetoric of being outraged by Israelis. But they treat the massive scale brutal murder and imposition of suffering and injustices committed by any other Middle Eastern government or terrorizing organization as just business as usual. With their selective silence and denial essentially sanctioning horrible injustices.

It's only a source of morbid glee, an opportunity to rend ones clothes and writhe in agony when Jews are involved. Then suddenly a river of crocodile tears start flowing.

One can at least respect the original Nazis for a level of self respect and frankness in admitting they hated Jews and wanted them eradicated.

They at least didn't feel compelled to open their monologues with the favoured line "I really don't have anything against Jews, but..."



M


[edit on 30-10-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael

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So your point is ? ? ? . . . if Israel eliminates all the unwelcome and troublesome Palestinians who still have the audacity to call the promised land their home, then in light of the statistics you referenced that's not such a bad crime after all?!?

There is this difference: What Israel does to the Palestinians it does with money and equipment supplied by the US.

And why shouldn't we criticize and condemn Israel for its human rights violations and crimes against innocent civilians? Why not? Is one innocent person's fate unimportant because there may be ten elsewhere experiencing a similar fate. Shall we forget the one in favor of the ten? Or should we condemn the crimes in both situations? Or is this just a feeble attempt to deflect attention from and minimize Israel's wrongs?

We would rejoice if Israel treated the Palestinians with dignity and respect. It isn't the anti-jew mentality that you wish to believe it is.

[edit on 10/31/2009 by dubiousone]

reply to post by dubiousone

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No he is saying for us to point out the atrocities commited against the Palestinians is wrong and not helping the Palestinians. If we only we had the ability to forget and forgive, if that was possible I suspect no conflict would exist because no one would have a memory to remember anything.

I wish I had no memory, and I wish the Palestinians had no memory.

reply to post by mattpryor

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Political Prisoners and the Establishment of Nazi Concentration Camps

The term "concentration camp" refers to a camp in which people are detained or confined, usually under harsh conditions and without regard to legal norms of arrest and imprisonment. The term was first used in reference to detention camps established by British authorities to detain suspected rebels and their families during the Boer war in South Africa at the beginning of the 20th century.

Various German authorities established the first concentration camps in Germany soon after Hitler's appointment as chancellor in January 1933. The SS, SA (Storm Troopers), the police and civilian authorities set up hundreds of makeshift “camps” in empty warehouses, factories, and other locations across Germany. The camps served as “temporary” detention centers for political opponents who were incarcerated without trial and under conditions of great cruelty.

Camps were located in Oranienburg, north of Berlin; Esterwegen, near Hamburg; Dachau, northwest of Munich; and Lichtenburg, in Saxony. By the end of July 1933, almost 27,000 people -- virtually all of them political prisoners -- were incarcerated in these camps.

By the end of 1934, the German authorities disbanded most of these early concentration camps. In their place and under the exclusive jurisdiction of the SS, they established a centrally organized concentration camp system. The first SS concentration camp had been established on March 20, 1933 at Dachau, in an abandoned World War I munitions factory. Located near Munich in southwestern Germany, Dachau served as the “model” for a vast system of SS camps. By 1939, six large concentration camps had been established. Besides Dachau, they were Sachsenhausen (1936), Buchenwald (1937), Flossenbuerg (1938), Mauthausen (1938), and to house women prisoners, Ravensbrueck (1939).

Nazi persecution of political opponents exacted a terrible price in human suffering. Between 1933 and 1939, the criminal courts sentenced tens of thousands of Germans for "political crimes." If the police were confident of a conviction in court, the prisoner was turned over to the justice system for trial. If the police were unsatisfied with the outcome of criminal proceedings they would take the acquitted citizen or the citizen who was sentenced to a suspended sentence into protective detention and incarcerate him or her in a concentration camp. On the eve of the war, concentration camps held about 25,000 inmates, most of them political prisoners.

Normal people weren't punished, it was political prisoners. That being said the whole Gaza is being punished. Collective punishment. Let Palestine exist so they can protect their people, the Gazans chose Hamas because they felt they hoped best for the Palestinian people, unlike the Palestinian authority who is siding itself to world powers instead of the Palestinian people.

Abas even went against the report which pointed out warcrimes against his own people.

I don't know the full history of concentration camps etc etc. correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally posted by merkava
reply to post by mrmonsoon

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Goldstone report is a lie

Deliberate water shortage is a lie

Palestinian blockade is a lie

Palestinian lands stolen is a lie

Palestinian genocide is a lie

The only truth is israel and its 'Chosen Ones' Right?

Israel is a lie. Israel is a disgrace to the humanity of mankind. Make no mistake good will always win, it just takes time. When that day comes and Israel is no longer, far more living on earth will experience peace, love and prosperity.

reply to post by Caveat Lector

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Based on YOUR statement....

When will the Gazan's show good will and stop their terrorists attacks.

Then good will can happen as they won't get "COUNTER" attacks.

reply to post by oozyism

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There has been no ethnic cleansing, no genocide of the Palestinian people. No evidence for it, circumstantial, anecdotal or otherwise. The population of Muslim Arabs within the control of the autonomous Palestinian Authority has increased, dramatically, since Israel retook the areas from Jordan and Egypt in 1967.

So in the absence of any genocide, or even evidence of intention of genocide, you are now saying "they want to commit genocide but can't because the world's watching"?

Totally delusional.

The more I read posts like this, the more it proves my point which is that hatred of Israel is irrational and is a product of brain washing.

reply to post by oozyism

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I know what a concentration camp is. I'm British, we invented them. Read about the Boer War concentration camps in South Africa at the turn of the century. 26,000 women and children perished.

There's one example. Go find others. Educate yourself.

Human history is littered with shameful and horrific examples of the way human beings can treat each other under the right circumstances. The way Israelis behave towards Palestinians is not such an example, but it is described as such by people with political motivations.

reply to post by oozyism

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lol What makes you think Israel gives a s**t about world opinion when it comes to national security? It's not realistic for the world to tell a nuclear-armed country to stop defending her people...

Now if Israel really wanted to kill to all the Arabs, as most people here are fantasizing about, then the civilian death toll in the recent Gaza War would have been at least 100,000+ instead of just 1,000. Also the Arabs living in Israel, which make up about 25% of Israel's population, would've all been killed by now instead of living normal lives and having equal rights as the Israelis, which is something that is almost non-existent in the rest of the Arab world.

For those of you who don't know, Israel is a democracy with Hebrew and Arabic as its official languages. It has an elected government, a military, and civilians who are also critical of its governments' actions(just like the U.S. and the rest of the Western World). So please, stop trying to make Israel sound like a monarchy where the "King is the law" and you get your hands cut off for stealing. Israel is not Saudi Arabia...

[edit on 2-11-2009 by DJAghetto]

reply to post by mattpryor

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I am not very good with youtube, so please forgive me, as I fumble through this. As far as I can tell, this video was posted January, which was prior to the report that you brought to my attention. However, both of these men the Israeli Foreign Minister and gentleman from the UN are very heated and certain of their facts, regarding the situation at the school. The Foreign Minister "We know for a fact that Hamas was firing mortar shells from the vicinity of the school grounds....... and the tragic result is what we all know." The UN worker goes on to say that Israeli had been at the time circulating old pictures to validate their claims. AHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Both claim to have investigated the situation at the of the interview, and then a month later, totally different "facts".

reply to post by searching4truth

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Israel still maintains that Hamas were attacking the IDF from the vicinity of the school. Go read the MFA's report on the conflict, it's all in there. Dates, times, troop movements, strategies.

The UN categorically denied that Hamas had ever used schools to fight from, and the IDF released those archive pics / videos to prove otherwise.

reply to post by mattpryor

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Well Matt, it has been fun, at this point I think I have to check out. It's seems to me to a situation of where the "answers" only serve as platform for more questions, and admittedly neither side is being truthful. Before I go, I would like to share this site www.ifamericansknew.org... . I just came across it, and I am exploring it myself, but from what I have seen of it, it seems to be perhaps the closest we (or at least I) will get to an honest, independent, glance into what the real situation is.

Nice try, but it has already been shown that the UN relied on false information supplied by Hamas in it's investigation. The UN's track record of ignoring mass violations of human rights to the point where it puts some of the worst offending countries on their commissions, is well-known.

There is a good reason the US and most Eurorean countries boycotted the recent Human Rights conference in Durban.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Just as Spain's National Court decided to shelve a phony war crime investigation of a 2002 Israeli air strike in Gaza, a group of lawyers and military experts assigned by the United Nations Human Rights Council continued its phony investigation of "the grave violations of human rights in the occupied Palestinian Territory, particularly due to the recent Israeli military attacks against the occupied Gaza Strip."
The UN Human Rights Council is a scandal. It's a successor to the defunct UN Human Rights Commission. Both organizations have a long history of singling out Israel for condemnation and of ignoring real human rights abusers by the world's worst offenders, several of which dominate the Human Rights Council and it predecessor.

As Hudson Institute scholar Anne Bayefsky recently noted: "The Council has adopted more resolutions and decisions condemning Israel than all the other 191 U.N. member states combined.... The more time the Council spends demonizing Israel, the less likely it becomes that it will ever get around to condemning genocide in Sudan, female slavery in Saudi Arabia, or torture in Egypt."

The very mandate that authorized the Gaza investigation reveals its bias against Israel. The council has already concluded, without any pretense to an investigation, that Israel is guilty of "grave violations of human rights... due to its... military attacks."

It has also concluded that the Gaza Strip "remains occupied," despite Israel having ended its occupation and having removed every single soldier and settler in 2005. Moreover, the Council's current president has limited the scope of the investigation to "violations committed in the context of the conflict that took place between 27 December 2008 and 18 January 2009." Those are the dates of the Israeli response to more than seven years of rocket attacks by terrorists operating behind human shields in Gaza. During the period prior to 27 December 2008, Hamas and its terrorist allies fired thousands of rockets and mortar shells into civilian areas of Israel, killing, maiming and traumatizing Israeli women, men and children. But these attacks that provoked Israel's self-defense military actions are excluded from the investigation, according to the mandate and its interpretation by the president of the council. It would be as if the UN convened an investigation of the United States and terrorism but limited the investigation only to actions taken after September 12, 2001.

The very idea of the UN Council conducting an "independent" or objective investigation of Israel is preposterous. It would be as if an all white Mississippi court were investigating a black man's self-defense in response to years of lynchings by whites and limiting its investigation to the event following the lynchings. There is simply no way of an investigation conducted under the auspices of the UN Human Rights Council and be fair. Its history of bias and bigotry should not be legitimated by men and women of decency who care about real human rights.

[…]

Hamas admits -- indeed boasts -- that it has committed multiple war crimes: first it boasts about firing rockets at Israeli school children; it fires its rockets primarily at times when Israeli children are on their way to and from school; it has hit several kindergartens, elementary schools and playgrounds (fortunately, the children had been sent home); it celebrates every civilian death and injury it causes. Targeting civilians is a war crime.

Second, Hamas boasts of hiding behind human shields, which is also a war crime. A prominent Hamas legislator has boasted of the fact that Hamas:

"...[has] formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: 'We desire death like you desire life.'"

Third, since Hamas is the elected government of Gaza, every rocket attack from Gaza is a violation of Article 51 of the UN Charter, which authorizes member nations to defend itself against "armed attack."
Fourth, these attacks are part of a long term strategy to destroy a member nation of the United Nations, as the Hamas charter clearly proclaims.

No "investigation" is needed to conclude that Hamas engaged in war crimes.

Israel, on the other hand, is engaged in legitimate self defense: as a leading British expert, Richard Kemp put it on the BBC during the Gaza War:

"I don't think there has ever been a time in the history of warfare when an army has made more efforts to reduce the civilian casualties and deaths of innocent people than the IDF is doing today in Gaza."

To be even-handed in the face of such uneven conduct, or to find moral equivalence where there is none, would be the worst sort of immoral bigotry. Yet moral and legal equivalence is precisely what this investigatory commission will "find," following its "independent fact-finding mission," unless it finds that Israel's conduct was worse than Hamas's because more people died from Israeli fire than from Hamas rockets. The investigators will ignore the law that holds murderers who hide behind human shields responsible for the deaths of these human shields, even when the bullets that killed them came from the weapons of those who engaged in legitimate self-defense. Consider the analogous situation of the Navy SEALs who killed the Somali pirates that had kidnapped American merchant captain Richard Phillips. Similar rescue attempts have sometimes resulted in the tragic deaths of the hostages. Would it be fair to try the SEALs for murder, instead of the pirates? That is exactly what the Gaza commission aims to do to Israel. It will also ignore the fact that Hamas always exaggerates the number of civilians killed by including in that category armed police (who double as terrorists), "civilians" who willing serve as human shields or who willingly allow their homes to be used to manufacture, store or fire rockets, "children" and "women" who have become terrorists, and even "collaborators" killed by Hamas.

My question is what are we going to do about it? I am aware that there are many tragic criminal acts commited by the lizzard hearted in this world, and they all clamor for attention. But this atrocity has been brought to our attention. We can and should write to our leaders, and tell them to do something about it.

But aside from this, its time to call people into another kind of action, its time we start to employ the metaphysical abilities we truly possess. I wish we would do this in giant protests, general strikes and sittins too, large meditating groups of people, visualizing and empowering shared intentions. Even when something doesnt get off the ground officially, we can still do this. If we spend some in meditation, even walking meditation, listening to special music with wake up frequencies such as Era, Gregorian, Vangelis, Constance Demby, Enigma, Mexicanto, etc. and setting intentions we will be readied more quickly.

To spend 10 minutes a day establishing absolute safety for all people in this area of the world, for every child born there, for their dignity, human rights, and joy to shine. That each and every one of them awakens to the truth within them and grows in peace, unity, love, understanding, and that each child "in joy, safety and harmony, steps into the unknown and into each day." We can see this being withdrawn. We can feel this situation being resloved, perhaps not by the puppet leaders ,but by the common people and send waves of pink energy for love, awareness, consideration of the others, empathy and compassion, and blue for peace and healing of all injuries, wounds and illness, mind, body and soul. We can see them uniting and joining hands.

Here is a good song from era, though not necessarily the best for meditation, the words depict the way we need to join hands and strive for a safe free world where race doesnt matter.

reply to post by ::.mika.::

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Totally different, 9/11 was caused by planes flown by terrorists, it is the truth, not some weird conspiracy theory - America could have said that the Taliban were planning an attack on US soil and invaded them first whereas many Israeli people are racist against Palestinians, although I expect as many, if not more Israelis are decent, non-racist people, seeing as otherwise they could have overrun Palestine by now.

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