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posted on Oct, 26 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I invite you to experience 23 minutes in Hell.

Bill Weise - "23 Minutes In Hell"

My prayers are with you daily folks, and I wanted to share with you the testimony of a man who was given a tour of Hell from the Lord.

I don't need your comments, or U2Us, I just hoped if I could get one person to watch the video it would be awesome, just 1 person. I pray you'll take time to listen to this man speak and share his experience.

God bless you all.


I'm a Christian, and I don't think that's a good way to spread Christianity. You spread it by doing good and helping people, not this.




posted on Oct, 26 2009 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I invite you to experience 23 minutes in Hell.

Bill Weise - "23 Minutes In Hell"

My prayers are with you daily folks, and I wanted to share with you the testimony of a man who was given a tour of Hell from the Lord.

I don't need your comments, or U2Us, I just hoped if I could get one person to watch the video it would be awesome, just 1 person. I pray you'll take time to listen to this man speak and share his experience.

God bless you all.



So let me get this straight, 'God bless you all, but some or most of you go to hell'? Hmmmm......

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how God could hate. This is a human attribute learned in the so called garden of good and evil. God would be, in my experience, incapable of hate. And so would His most famous Son, the Christ. He told us to love our enemies, not condemn them. As a most perfect 'reflection' or image of His Father, He couldn't hate either. He loved us all then and He loves us all now. Even at the end of His life, in his most darkest hour, Jesus cried out "Father, forgive them,for they know not what they do".

Saint and sinner, slain and slayer and crucified and crucifier, the Christ loves everyone. Even the most lost soul is still a part of God and God is all and all is God.

I know you didn't 'need our comments' but I would like to ask you to please not send your blessings to anyone if it entails a threat of hell. This is not love and this not the message that Jesus asked you to spread. The Old Testament "God of wrath" is outdated and naive, an old fashioned scare tactic that's worked successfully well for the church for a long time.

I'm afraid that badmedia is correct and that you, like millions of others over the centuries, have fallen victim to a lie. You cannot die and not a single sheep will ever go astray forever. The 'music of the spheres' turn in time and 'forever' is a relative term.

"I and my Father are One" says the Christ. And just as every single cell in your body is interconnected, so are the individual human units interconnected into the Human Race. This is the Christ Consciousness, that special "heightened" level of awareness where the human race, all of us, saint and sinner, functions as a single Whole. We are all One, many little lives within One Life.

There is a way to raise ourselves to this Christ Consciousness level, this "upper room" of awareness, but it doesn't come easy and it doesn't involve any religions or special beliefs. If you simply practice sincerity of spirit, honesty of mind and detachment in your everyday interactions you will, in time, know your Self and thus you will know God. These are the words of an Arhat and is the Art of Living.






[edit on 26-10-2009 by Neo__]



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


I don't follow ANY man, I put my faith in Jesus Christ.

I've stated SEVERAL times, I don't believe in "Churchianity". Religion never saved a soul, only a personal relationship with God can do that.

Thief on the cross is a prime example. He acknowledged Christ as Lord and asked Him to remember him when He went to the Father.



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by badmedia
 


Okay.. I'm "wrong" about "Hell" and "fire", then tell Strong's Exhaustive Concordance that their Greek lexicon is "wrong" as well.

Where did you learn Koine Greek??


I get my understanding from the father, and the father is the only source I trust for it.

The specific word isn't what matters, it's the meaning behind them that matters.



"it's the meaning behind them that matters."

I couldn't agree more. That's precisely why a Lexicon is needed to understand the Greek to English context for any word/phrase in a passage that was WRITTEN in Greek.

Greek is a much more exhaustive language than English. Greek has 5 different words for our one word "Love".

I couldn't agree with you more emphatically that "it's the meaning behind them that matters."



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by amitheone
 


I never intended this thread to get into salvation, it was to offer one man's testimony about his claim to have had a revelation from God. I've seen other people claim there "is no Hell" in other threads. And to maintain the TOS of this website in order to get into a new topic of discussion one needs to make a new thread to discuss such otherwise the original thread will move "off topic". I even stated as such a few times, that the topic was this man's revelation.

Many Christians also don't believe in "Hell". Also, Hell is discussed more often in the Bible than Heaven is. Jesus Christ taught more about Hell than any other man in the Bible.

This was never intended to be a thread about salvation etc... some have refused to take this one off topic as well and delve into that. My OP states the point of my thread.




[edit on 27-10-2009 by NOTurTypical]



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by Neo__
 


That's the "New Age" religion, which in fact isn't new whatsoever. It's been recycled over and over again since ancient Babylon.

Yes, God is Love, however God wrath is on sin. God righteously hates sin.

To only state that god is Love and ignore the other attributes of God is a Hasty Generalization fallacy.



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I've said it before and I'll say it again-
If I'm wrong about this all being an accident, and there really is a God, then I'll never bow before him. I'll gladly risk not 23 minutes but an eternity in hell for even the most futile shot at paying him back for the horrors of this poorly thought out existence that he so thoughtlessly cast us all into without bothing to ask us first.

But although I mean that, I really don't spend a lot of time thinking about it these days (I did back when I was a Satanist, but now the whole thing just seems so silly).

But really, can we agree that some things are NEVER ok, and ALWAYS have to be fought against? You know, things like murdering baby's just to get at their parents? Genocide? Slavery? And a host of other things that the God of Abraham supposedly ordered?

Because where I come from, you don't go along with stuff like that just because it's done by your buddy, or just because you're not sure you're strong enough to stop it. It's only to be expected that a decent person would oppose that kind of evil at all costs, because there is no life worth living in a world where that kind of garbage persists. And that means the heaven of the Christian God is no place worth going in my opinion, even if it did exist.



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 04:46 AM
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reply to post by The Vagabond
 


Well, I agree with you in a way. If god turns out to be the Christian god as Christians portray him, then I would also rather burn in hell than serve such a being. It amounts to nothing but slavery and a hell of it's own.

Personally though, I think Christians worship Satan and that it is a Satanic religion. It is the anti-christ religion Jesus warns of, and fulfills all the prophecies of the anti-christ religion in itself.

Religion in the name of Christ? Check.

Appeals to political and earthly powers/authority? Check.

Proceeds to kill people in public if they don't convert to their religion? Check. And they even burned people in public to instill fear into the people.

Won't be happy until it is the 1 world religion? Check.

It's not much wonder how the form of Christianity got it's foothold. Not that all Christians are bad and responsible, but this is how their beliefs were handed down.

But my question to you is this - if you know how screwed up what they say is - why let them define god for you?



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by badmedia
 


I don't follow ANY man, I put my faith in Jesus Christ.


That is false, you put your faith into a book written by men. Just because you refuse to acknowledge this doesn't mean it's not true. You can sit around and pretend like it's not all you want, but you are only fooling and hurting yourself.



I've stated SEVERAL times, I don't believe in "Churchianity". Religion never saved a soul, only a personal relationship with God can do that.

Thief on the cross is a prime example. He acknowledged Christ as Lord and asked Him to remember him when He went to the Father.


You keep their dogma, so I don't see any real difference. Same basic bitter fruit.

[edit on 10/27/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I couldn't agree more. That's precisely why a Lexicon is needed to understand the Greek to English context for any word/phrase in a passage that was WRITTEN in Greek.

Greek is a much more exhaustive language than English. Greek has 5 different words for our one word "Love".

I couldn't agree with you more emphatically that "it's the meaning behind them that matters."


The only way anyone can come to proper understanding is through the father and what you would call the holy spirit. You are simply using the bible as replacements for these things.

Lets say you are building a house. You have a roof, a foundation and walls. If you put the foundation in place of the roof, then your house will fall. It doesn't matter if you have the most choice materials in the world, because you did not put things in their proper place the house will fall.

You can have the perfect roof, the perfect foundation, but it still won't matter. But even the house built out of poorest of materials will stand as long as things are in their proper places.

The bible/scripture has a purpose, but when you elevate it to the word of god and the authority, then you are not putting it in the proper place. Instead, you are putting it in as a replacement for something you lack.

Your house will fall.



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Neo__
 


That's the "New Age" religion, which in fact isn't new whatsoever. It's been recycled over and over again since ancient Babylon.

Yes, God is Love, however God wrath is on sin. God righteously hates sin.

To only state that god is Love and ignore the other attributes of God is a Hasty Generalization fallacy.


No it's not. Your religion is based on paganism and is the mystery religion.

When Jesus is asked about being the son of god, he doesn't say it is only he that is the son of god, he quotes Psalm 82 to them, which says that all are children of god, and then asks them why they think it so odd.



John 10

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


But now Neo said the same thing, and you treat him just as the Jews treated Jesus - claim he is a lie.

The verse he quotes:



Psalm 82

1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.


And this verse describes you perfectly. You have accepted things that men have told and handed to you. Because of that, you do not understand and you walk in darkness. Because you do not understand, you think Neo is wrong when he says that. But no sir, you are the one who is blind and doesn't understand.

Why do you think Jesus says to call no man your father, but that which is in heaven is your father? If he is your father, then you are his son. The father is within all, and this is expressed in genesis and in John 14.

You have no concept of what is spirit is spirit and what is flesh is flesh. You simply call it a soul without any real idea what that soul and spirit is. If you did understand, then you would not at all think it odd that the father is within all.

Reality was summed up in 1 phrase for me by the father, in the understanding he gave me:

I am god, and I am arguing with myself(you).

That you do not understand this is part of the religion and is a required point for you to accept the "anti-christ". Because you look for that being to fill the role of god, as you do not see the father within. Those who know the father within will not fall for such things, but those who are blind will eat it up(you).


[edit on 10/27/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 06:26 AM
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Not,

You already have judged me, THAT is the point. You just bluntly refuse to do so openly. This whole threads amounts to cursing people under your breath.



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
Not,

You already have judged me, THAT is the point. You just bluntly refuse to do so openly. This whole threads amounts to cursing people under your breath.


I did not judge you, you asked if you died right now "hypothetically" without Jesus Christ, in that scenario which is NOT reality I might add, then I said you would die in your sins.

We both know you are alive and well, and I stated NUMEROUS times that I have no idea what you will do with the Lord in the duration of your lifetime so I cannot say where your resting place for eternity will be.

I answered the hypothetical situation, I also said I have no idea what your future entails. You are still alive. Therefore, because you are still alive you still have the chance of not seeing Hell for eternity. You're asking me to peer into the future which I CANNOT do.

Hypothetical situations are not reality.



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I did not judge you, you asked if you died right now "hypothetically" without Jesus Christ, in that scenario which is NOT reality I might add, then I said you would die in your sins.


Do you even have a clue what it means to believe in Jesus?

So, let me get this straight.

Man A never does a bad thing in his life. He doesn't steal, cheat, lie or kill other people. But he never accepts Christianity and so forth.

Man B does many bad things in his life, but then "accepts Jesus".

Are you saying is that Man A goes to hell, and Man B goes to heaven?



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I did not judge you, you asked if you died right now "hypothetically" without Jesus Christ, in that scenario which is NOT reality I might add, then I said you would die in your sins.


Do you even have a clue what it means to believe in Jesus?

So, let me get this straight.

Man A never does a bad thing in his life. He doesn't steal, cheat, lie or kill other people. But he never accepts Christianity and so forth.

Man B does many bad things in his life, but then "accepts Jesus".

Are you saying is that Man A goes to hell, and Man B goes to heaven?



Yep, exactly right. that's how utterly amazing the free gift of mercy is.

“I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more” (Jer. 31:34; Heb. 8:12 and 10:17).

And "good works" justify NO MAN, only simple faith in Christ.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

God sees ALL our good works as "filthy rags".

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." Isaiah 64:6

And if we keep every single command of God (619 of them), but fail in just one, just once in life we are guilty of failing them all. God demands perfectness because he is perfect.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10

That is PRECISELY why a blameless, sin-free, "Lamb" had to die for us. the death penalty we ourselves could not pay to God.

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13

It's maddening to go through life wondering if we did good enough on our own, if we halped enough old ladies across the street, of if we lied only 7,890 times and were just short of God's standard of acceptance by a few hundred. that would be a terrible life to have to live, in constant worry.

Christ made it simple.. "Just believe on me and all your sins are forgiven."

God knew we could not save ourselves, that's why He gave His Son up for us.

It's a simple and extremely easy road to salvation. And there is only one way, a "narrow way". Just 1.

How to go to Heaven

It's simple beyond imagine to make sure one never has to taste the gates of Hell.



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You are in for one "hell" of a disappointment.



Matthew 5

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Do you see "ye shall in no case". NO CASE. For NO REASON AT ALL. Unless you are even more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees - NO EXCEPTIONS.

True that man will sin in their life times, and so forth. But they are forgiven once they repent for their sins. And contrary to what you may believe, that doesn't mean saying "sorry". It means to fix your mistakes.



John 14

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Your lip service is no good. You either walk the path, or you don't.



20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


It continues on calling those who don't walk the path fools.

Btw, you say you are against the churchianity etc. But do you know what the term Heretic means? Because your sig says silencing the heretics. Well, a heretic is one who goes against church dogma. Can't really have it both ways.



posted on Oct, 27 2009 @ 11:10 PM
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I'm not sure if it's worth arguing about, BadMedia. Some are simply going to have to learn the hard way. This is what I was saying about attachment, it can only lead to pain and destruction when we attach ourselves to either physical things or, as in this case, ideologies and dogmas. Letting go of our attachments takes humility, and this can be a hard pill to swallow. Christ, the most humblest of us all, never meant for us to simply have blind faith. When he told us to pray He said "Our" Father, not "My" Father. He meant for all of us to take up the cross and walk the path of righteousness. It may take time (Satan/Saturn/Chronos) but time is an illusion for the enlightened.

Following religious leaders blindly can only lead to getting lost. Shining a inner light so that others can see, as Christ and many others in history have, is the path of love and service and this is the path of least resistance to resurrection. We shall do greater things. The Truth is within us all, and as you well know BadMedia, one cannot find the "real" truth in books or religions. One has to experience the truth within, the Christ can only point the way, and this, I believe, was His real message two thousand years ago. Yet as expected, He predicted that 'many would come in His name' (extreme orthodox Christians?) 'saying I am the Christ' (e.g. the way), 'and many shall be deceived'. So true.

But not for long, for as you've said above, a great awakening is about to occur for everyone. And not just for the so called righteous, but for everyone. This great awakening will be as dramatic as night and day, a sleeping state versus an awakened state, but on the whole human race level, not just individually.

The Sun rises for everyone in the morning and sheds light into the dark places. Bring on the dawn and lets start living.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by Neo__
 


I try to hold back from even discussing these things. But I can't just ignore it, no matter how much I try. It's like watching someone put coins in the dollar slot on a coke machine over and over, I would just have to point out the machine took dollars in that slot, not coins.

I am not a doom and gloomer. As the quote says, unless someone is 100% righteous, they can't not enter into heaven. And no amount of lip service to Jesus is going to change that.

When I say that, then it would seem nobody is fit for heaven. And perhaps in our current state - none are. Heck, god and the commandments aside, there are things about me that I don't even like and try to change. I'm a smoker, and I think it's stupid etc.

So yes, all must be more righteous than the pharisees. And it's not for vengence, it's that if you yourself are a theif, then your very existence makes a society without theft impossible.

I think the overwhelming majority of people are in heart, good people. But they are poor in spirit and lack understanding. They react out of fear, rather than acting out of reason. They see themselves as flesh, and they will do anything to protect that flesh - even kill and enslave others. They justify their own sins based on this and so forth. Sad state.

Does it not occur to them that the reason why breaking a commandment is a sin against god, is because you are doing that to the father that is within them? That the sins against god are not really sins towards the father himself in terms of harming, but on fellow men is like that for a reason? But they don't understand, and so they are poor in spirit.

But all these people are 100% blessed, not going to hell. Because as they have not known the truth, they have not rejected it either. And as they are good hearted people, when they do come to understand they will do the right thing. It is not them that are to blame, but that which has worked so hard to keep the truth hidden from them.

But one day, I do not know when but hopefully soon, people will start to understand and wake up. I really think it's just a matter of how bad things will have to get before people start taking a deeper look into things. Seems to be mans main motivation for things.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 
Wait a second, I NEVER once for a minute said nor implied that because we are saved by grace that we have a license to sin, absolutely not.

Read the first 8 chapters of Romans and that idea is shot down in flames. The path to salvation is simple as could be.

What Christ meant was that if we didn't surpass the Pharisees in righteousness we would have no life. The pharisees all had SELF-righteousness.

Extremely big difference. The Lord said they were a brood of vipers and hypocrites.



posted on Oct, 28 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Yep, exactly right. that's how utterly amazing the free gift of mercy is.


That's not amazing. That is one of the worse injustices imaginable. If he had mercy, then he could easily forgive the man for not accepting Jesus.

How can you say Jesus died for the worlds sins, if it doesn't cover all sins and all people of the world? And why does it ultimately impede on joining a religion?

And if that was true, then explain what I posted above. Or tell me, why didn't Jesus tell that to the Rich man - who directly asks Jesus what he needs to do? If what you say is true, then why did he tell the rich man to give his wealth to the poor, rather than believing as you say?



“I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more” (Jer. 31:34; Heb. 8:12 and 10:17).


Yes, because once you repent for your sins, which again means fixing your mistakes, you are automatically forgiven. AUTOMATICALLY. ALL PEOPLE. It is no different than the stove eye example I gave you earlier. As you will no longer make the mistake, it is no longer an issue. No different than how someone would treat their children.

The holy spirit gives understanding. And so people are able to forgive peoples sin's with the holy spirit because it gives them understanding on why they have sinned, what the error was and how to fix it. And thus, when they make that change, forgiven.



And "good works" justify NO MAN, only simple faith in Christ.


But what do you think faith in Christ means? Because if you mean oh accept "Jesus", and then go around claiming the bible is the word of god, that people will be going to hell if they don't, and repeating church dogma, then you are in for a shock. That is not what it means at all. It's a path you walk, a way of life, and Jesus represents that and shows people the way out of his example.



"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

God sees ALL our good works as "filthy rags".


You'll have to do better than quoting Paul. Paul makes up nearly 50% of the bible, and quotes Jesus a total of 1 time in his writings. He contradicts Jesus on some of the most basic understandings.



"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." Isaiah 64:6

And if we keep every single command of God (619 of them), but fail in just one, just once in life we are guilty of failing them all. God demands perfectness because he is perfect.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10




Psalm 111

9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.


You are redeemed by gaining understanding. Knowledge of the holy is understanding(Proverbs 9). It is by that understanding that one is able to keep the commandments.

And that is why Jesus speaks in parables. He is asked why he speaks that way, and he says it is for understanding, and talks about the different in those who listen, and those who hear. He speaks in parables so people can "hear" him, but those who listen only do not hear.

Thus why he says to do as he does, and to walk the path. And thus is why those who truly believe will do all that he does and more. Because he did NOT change things, he fulfilled them. He fulfilled them in order to show people how to properly follow and keep the commandments. To give them that understanding. And thus, if you believe on him and do that, then you can be saved. That is what he is saying.



That is PRECISELY why a blameless, sin-free, "Lamb" had to die for us. the death penalty we ourselves could not pay to God.

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13


This is a Satanic viewpoint of sacrifice. It is to say that the truth had to die in order for the lie of this world to live. That is not what that is about.

Because as I said before, what it means to "believe" in him is not just about praising the idol.

Jesus says this himself almost directly.



Matthew 9

13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


He is quoting from the OT.



6For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.


But you tell me nah, it is sacrifice that is wanted, not knowledge(understanding) of god.



It's maddening to go through life wondering if we did good enough on our own, if we halped enough old ladies across the street, of if we lied only 7,890 times and were just short of God's standard of acceptance by a few hundred. that would be a terrible life to have to live, in constant worry.


If you have understanding, then it will not be so maddening. Still, some times you have to worry. I often question if I should even respond to you and threads like these. I think I probably shame myself to even debate such things. But then I think - If I am to pull a man out of the mud, I can't be worried that I might get a little mud on my hand in the process, but I better make sure I am not getting mud on my hand because I am pushing them in further. Some things like this, they are difficult. But the main things - they are crystal clear.



Christ made it simple.. "Just believe on me and all your sins are forgiven."


Again, to believe in him is to follow in his example. In doing so, you repent for your sins(fix your mistakes) and you are forgiven. You are putting all the emphasis on the idol, and not seeing the real understanding behind it. That is why you do not think people from other religions are going to hell and such.

One of the first things the father taught me was do NOT look at the idols, the symbols and so forth. Instead, I am to look at what they mean, what they represent and so forth. They have a reason and purpose, look at that.

When I look at what a man does, I do not look to see if he is a Christian, if he is a considered a good person or whatever. I am not to look at such things. Instead, I need to look at their actions - what actions are they doing, what actions do they suggest I do and so forth. By their actions, not their image, not their idol will I know the truth of things.

It is by that understanding that I recognize the father in Jesus. I know because of what Jesus did, the understanding Jesus speaks and so forth, that only by the father does one have that kind of understanding. There is no question, no belief, no acceptance, and no blind faith. Faith and blind faith are 2 different things.

So when you say believe in Jesus, what exactly do you mean by that? If you mean it in 1 way, I can not agree with you at all. And it seems like that is the way you mean it. But if you mean it in another way, then I can agree with you.



God knew we could not save ourselves, that's why He gave His Son up for us.

It's a simple and extremely easy road to salvation. And there is only one way, a "narrow way". Just 1.


Yes, an example on how to follow the commandments properly. He did that knowing he would be killed for it. He did not have to speak up. He did not have to do those things. He could have choose to just follow them and be quiet. But he cared about the people so much he tried to give them understanding. In the hopes that if you believed him, then you would follow his example and then you will keep the commandments and be saved.

The way you speak of is not narrow. It is very broad. Even the rich man is able to do what you speak of. But that rich man couldn't do what Jesus asked of him, and told him he needed to do. The narrow path is the path Jesus walked, and the only way to enter that gate is to keep the commandments.

Speaking of the commandments, Jesus gives easy understanding on how to keep all the commandments. Listed or not. 2 simple little rules that anyone can do. That is understanding he gives. And he gives it for a reason.



It's simple beyond imagine to make sure one never has to taste the gates of Hell.


Then why does Jesus say otherwise?

Again, the church and your religion is all too happy to accept that rich man that Jesus turned away.



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