9/11: The Mossad Connection

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
There are posts above that are nothing but hog wash. There is not one mention of MOSSAD and it's history or it's agents on the day of 911. It is as if the poster is afraid to address the topic.
It is a constant reminder of those that over post irrelevant crap in an attempt to derail honest discussion.
The rhetoric of the posts above and previous posts by the same member should be put in a separate thread as they pertain not to this thread IMO.
I would suggest reading a book by Gordon Thomas "Gideon's Spies: Mossad's Secret Warriors," This guy knows the Mossad.

Please provide us with all your "Jews did 9/!!" information. The world needs to know how Israel pulled off this operation to get the US into the Middle East. They were feeling lonely.


M

1--- With all the ease of seducing a lady of the night with a fist full of fifties.
I have not--- never used the word JEW in this thread--- in any way shape or form.
Are you a latent racist liar in this respect ?
By the way I am among the WHITE race and your lie offends me. Do you know if the Jews you speak of are white or of a separate race?

2 ---Hell yes--- as off topic as your crap is, knowing Mossad and all their miss-ADVENTURES that effect my country, EVERY one needs to know how so few can affect so many.
Thanks once again for being so easily placated .

There is no prejudice or dishonesty on this forum. We are told this repeatedly.

There just happens to be 50 threads with the subject of Jews/Israel/Mossad somehow responsible for 9/11. And the attendees and same proported factoids are trotted out time and again.

But I still waiting to see something resembling credible substantiation of the veiled accusations.

Please do enlighten us on the topic of this thread - the Mossad connection to 9/11.

If there was one let's hear about it.


M

[edit on 26-10-2009 by mmiichael]

#1----- You mean you Actually have no clue? DUH!
#2 ------read the OP and a total rash of your own worthless posts,
#3-------there is no ON I am aware of.
Do the Mossad make your britches so stiff you are paralyzed
to even utter or repeat the word MOSSAD?????
Do you try to deflect the essence of them, the Mossad
upon the Jewish people. ? Are you in a coma?
If I were a person of the Jewish FAITH I would re think my involvement with people like you.

MOSSAD = Israeli Intelligence Service. Mostly Jewish Israelis, Arab Israelis, Druze Israelis, many foreign operatives. "By way of deception." Know of another way to run an international secret service? What are the mottos of all the others?

Thanks for the generous heaping of histrionics.

Of course I read the OP. How about this morsel:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"Perhaps one van was meant to drop off a bomb while the other was meant to pick up the first set of drivers while re-crossing back into New Jersey? If a van was to be used as a parked time-bomb on the GW Bridge, then certainly the drivers would need to have a "get-away van" to pick them up and escape"?

Like the never seen missiles, holograms, thermite, flyovers, death rays - just more malignant fantasy rambling.

The police didn't find any bombs, explosives, anything resembling related equipment.

All we have are broad speculations on non-existent bombs? Could it be disinformation, you think?

And please don't call my posts worthless? I at least try to provide some perspective and actual facts to correct the BS floating around here

So for the nth time, where is the all that information you're huffing and puffing about? Where is your evidence of Mossad's involvement in the planning and execution of 9/11?


M



[edit on 27-10-2009 by mmiichael]

Very good my opponent in truth. Let's start with William Cohen. Secretary of Defense For the Country Of America in the year 2001 .Tell me what you know about him. Is he in any way connected to Mossad?

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Very good my opponent in truth. Let's start with William Cohen. Secretary of Defense For the Country Of America in the year 2001 .Tell me what you know about him. Is he in any way connected to Mossad?

Cohen, as Clinton's appointed Secretary of Defense into 2001 would have interfaced with Mossad as well as over a hundred other international intelligence services as part of his job requirement.

I'm sure you're going to tell us there's more to it. Let's hear.


M

[edit on 27-10-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to mmiichael's post #60

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by scott3x
Michael, I don't get it. The OP in this thread shows the evidence of Mossad involvement. It seems you're avoiding dealing with it...

...the "enough explosives found to blow up a bridge" is a complete urban legend. I've asked you repeatedly for one shred of information or detailing of this and had no response.

Apparently you didn't read the OP very well. There's a plethora of information detailing the evidence of this in that post.

Originally posted by mmiichael
It did not happen. I've provided more than one link that give the actual story.

You've certainly provided links, but I haven't seen you provide anything solid against the evidence I presented in the OP.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Once more - police within an hours of the WTC attacks stopped a van with Israelis and they were subsequently held for weeks. No explosives were ever found.

Next time, you might want to check the links in my OP. Here's the text from link (14) in the OP, which was published on September 12, 2001 over at breakingnews.ie under the title Three arrested with van full of explosives:

Reports from New York are saying three people have been arrested with a van of explosives.

The van was stopped along the New Jersey turn-pike near the George Washington Bridge.

It was not clear why police stopped the van but when they did they found it was laden down with tonnes of explosives.

To be sure, a new text blurb was published at the same site within -7 minutes-, which is in keeping with how fast the FBI showed up to remove videotape evidence of what really happened at the pentagon, in a story titled Police confirm arrests but deny explosives find:

NYPD officers have confirmed the arrest of three men on the New Jersey turn-pike.

However officials denied any explosives were found in the van.

Officials declined to say why exactly the men had been arrested.

Tell me Michael, why the sudden change of story without an explanation as to how they could have first found and then deny to have found explosives? Do you know who, precisely, arrested the 3 men in question? How about the identities of these "NYPD officers" who "denied any explosives were found in the van"? Aren't you atleast curious to try to find out who these people were, why the story changed, and why no explanation was given as to why the story changed?

Originally posted by mmiichael
They were released and have launched a case for unlawful confinement.

Yes, I know. But let's not get sidetracked here. Anyone, including the guilty, can launch cases for unlawful confinement. The real question is whether or not they were guilty of being involved in the 9/11 operation. And it is here that things get interesting. As was mentioned in the OP:

"There was no question but that [the order to close down the investigation] came from the White House. It was immediately assumed at CIA headquarters that this basically was going to be a cover-up so that the Israelis would not be implicated in any way in 9/11."

As you can see, my quote is in quotes, because I'm not the person who originally said it. The person who -originally- wrote those words was Christopher Ketcham, who wrote a special investigation piece for counterpunch regarding these Israelies, titled High-Fivers and Art Student Spies [:] What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?. He was quoting a former CIA counterterrorism officer who spoke anonymously.

I myself haven't read the whole article, and if you go to the counterpunch site link of the article, you'll only get a small blurb unless you subscribe. However, if you go to whatreallyhappened.com's backup of the article, you can see the whole thing without paying for it.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Disinfo websites and videos claim there were explosives. There were none. It boils down to massive distortions of two of the hundreds of reported events on 9/11.

Michael, it's easy to deny that something is true, just as it's easy to claim that something -is- true. The hard part is in producing solid evidence to back up your claim. Can you do this?

Originally posted by mmiichael
A handful of Israelis were joking around and reported to the authorities by a neighbor as suspicious. Some Israelis were stopped in a van after the second jet impact, arrested, interrogated, let go.

Michael, have you ever considered -why- these Israelies, who were part of a rather suspicious company called "Urban Moving Systems" and who also had ties to Mossad, were dancing around, apparently quite cheerful of the event that they were recording?

Originally posted by mmiichael
As for the esteemed professor of theology, Dr Griffin, now claiming to be a demolition expert, you should know that even the Truth Movement has distanced themselves from his once popular claims.

A bit dated but a good analysis of his confabulations and distortions:

www.publiceye.org...

I recommend rather than investigoogling and limiting your horizon to hokey Truther sources, reading more up-to-date material on 9/11 from independent investigative writers with credible track records.

I have found David Ray Griffin's work to be great. You yourself admit that the analysis you point to is a bit dated. More importantly, it's just another web site, one I've never even heard of before. One thing is clear, however; it mentions neither Mossad, or Israel (other than someone who's name is Israel) once. Clearly, it's a subject for another thread.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by scott3x]

Scott,

You're trying to implicate Mossad in 9/11, but not providing any evidence beyond Truther source speculations.

And can you explain why some Israelis joking around on 9/11 signifies anything. Who knows, maybe they thought it meant new jobs for them,maybe they didn't like someone who worked there, maybe they just hate the US. If hating the US was a crime, this site would not be in operation.

Israeli intelligence, as well as half a dozen others had pieces of the puzzle of the al Qaida's attacks. Even the Saudis and Putin personally complained afterward how they'd warned the Americans something big was coming down the pike. Documented now, Israel was supplying the US before, during, and afterward with intelligence on the hijackers. The FBI ignored, neglected, or suppressed information. There are still major questions that need to be addressed as to why communication with the CIA and White House was not what it should have been.

Again for the 19th time. There were no explosives of any kind found in the Urban Moving Systems van. The police admitted that, the legal system conceded that. The Truther movement has never provided a shred of data on any bombs or devices. It is one of many dot-connecting urban legends pushed by conspiracy cultists.

Like Urban Systems owner Suter leaving the country right after 9/11 being suspicious. Well guess what Scott - central Manhattan was hit by the equivalent of two gigantic bombs. Maybe the moving business was not going to be as usual for a while? Don't you think a lot of businesses abruptly shut down after 9/11? Fled the country is the usual Truther spin if an Israeli is involved.

As for David Ray Griffin. Popular in the early days when specifics on 9/11 were still coming in. It's been clarified he has no comprehension of demolition and explosives, does no fact-checking, relies on now exposed as fraudulent sources like white supremacist Christopher Bollyn, uses ‘magical’ thinking with things like his “no plane” speculations, consistently denies overwhelming on the spot witness testimony, and on and on.

In a nutshell, Griffin is an Truther circuit opportunist and whack job.

This page elaborates:

www.oilempire.us...

My impression is you want to believe Mossad was involved in the planning and execution of 9/11. Like Griffin, you will not allow hard facts or credibly sourced information to interfere with your chosen fantasies.

Happy hunting,

M


[edit on 27-10-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael

Originally posted by mmiichael
Scott,

You're trying to implicate Mossad in 9/11, but not providing any evidence

I've provided a great deal of evidence; the post you're responding to is a good example.

Originally posted by mmiichael
And can you explain why some Israelis joking around on 9/11 signifies anything.

Do you even know -what- they were so happy about? You would if you had carefully reviewed my posts.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Who knows, maybe they thought it meant new jobs for them, maybe they didn't like someone who worked there, maybe they just hate the US.

Or maybe they were part of the 9/11 operation. Judging by your lack of interest in fully responding to my posts, however, I have a strong feeling that that's not an option you'd like to consider.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Israeli intelligence, as well as half a dozen others had pieces of the puzzle of the al Qaida's attacks.

Alright, we atleast agree that they knew something was going down; tell me, how detailed do you think their knowledge was? And though you have constantly attempted to discredit the story that Israelis working for Urban Moving Systems, some if not all of whom were Mossad agents, had atleast one van filled with enough explosives to do serious damage to a bridge, and that they may have perhaps been atleast partially responsible for bringing down the World Trade Center buildings, and were definitely recording the event when it happened, the story remains solid.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Even the Saudis and Putin personally complained afterward how they'd warned the Americans something big was coming down the pike. Documented now, Israel was supplying the US before, during, and afterward with intelligence on the hijackers.

Have you ever considered that the reason they were monitoring the hijackers wasn't so much to stop them so much as to assure that they carried out their part of the plan?

Originally posted by mmiichael
The FBI ignored, neglected, or suppressed information. There are still major questions that need to be addressed as to why communication with the CIA and White House was not what it should have been.

Indeed. Have you considered the possibility that elements within the CIA and the White House didn't -want- to be officially informed because they wanted 9/11 to happen as it did?

Originally posted by mmiichael
Again for the 19th time. There were no explosives of any kind found in the Urban Moving Systems van.

Straight from 11th time to 19th time eh? Michael, you really need to work on that math. You can't refute the fact that there was a report that the van contained a great deal of explosives. The fact that a secondary report published 7 minutes afterwards, stating that un-named NYPD officials denied this report doesn't resolve this issue, as I have detailed in my previous post.

Originally posted by mmiichael
The police admitted that, the legal system conceded that.

Can you name the police who "admitted" it? And what part of the legal system? And most importantly, why was no explanation given as to the initial report, which told quite a different story? There is also what I brought up in my previous post in this thread concerning the anonymous CIA counter-terrorism official as well.

Originally posted by mmiichael
As for David Ray Griffin...

David Ray Griffin is certainly an important person within the 9/11 movement; your dialogue concerning him doesn't concern Mossad, however, so I felt it best to open a new thread to discuss him, here:

David Ray Griffin, pillar of the 9/11 Truth Movement

[edit on 27-10-2009 by scott3x]

Originally posted by scott3x
And though you have constantly attempted to discredit the story that Israelis working for Urban Moving Systems, some if not all of whom were Mossad agents, had atleast one van filled with enough explosives to do serious damage to a bridge, and that they may have perhaps been atleast partially responsible for bringing down the World Trade Center buildings, and were definitely recording the event when it happened, the story remains solid.

I guess this pretty much ends the discussion Scott. You refuse to take in any information that conflicts with disproven wild speculations.

There was no van filled with explosives ever found by anyone in the NYC area. This is an outright Truther lie. Not the only one by a longshot.

Embraced by lovers of mistruth, an incident where the police stopped and detained Israelis now inflated to an attempt to blow up the WTC.

You want to live in denial of the established fact that a group of Arabs successfully planned and executed a massive attack on the US. Even though there are warehouses full of documentation, convictions, confessions, forensic evidence all corroborating it.

Enjoy living in your fantasy world.


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by scott3x
And though you have constantly attempted to discredit the story that Israelis working for Urban Moving Systems, some if not all of whom were Mossad agents, had atleast one van filled with enough explosives to do serious damage to a bridge, and that they may have perhaps been atleast partially responsible for bringing down the World Trade Center buildings, and were definitely recording the event when it happened, the story remains solid.

I guess this pretty much ends the discussion Scott.

That's up to you.

Originally posted by mmiichael
You refuse to take in any information that conflicts with disproven wild speculations.

What information do you speak of? And please, don't link a page you think disproves anything I've said; provide the relevant excerpts, as I have.

Originally posted by mmiichael
There was no van filled with explosives ever found by anyone in the NYC area. This is an outright Truther lie.

You have shown no evidence that the van from Urban Moving Systems wasn't filled with explosives. And guess what? Breakingnews.ie? It's not exactly a truther site.

Neither is the Jerusalem post, which also mentioned that this van was packed with explosives. It's all there in the OP, in this case link (13). Let me quote the article from this paper again, titled Car bomb found on George Washington Bridge (08:45), since you apparently either skipped that part of the OP or forgot about it:

American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge connecting New York and New Jersey.

The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge.

Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported.

The Jerusalem post itself apparently no longer has the article, but it's been backed up by whatreallyhappened.com here:
whatreallyhappened.com...

Originally posted by mmiichael
Embraced by lovers of mistruth, an incident where the police stopped and detained Israelis now inflated to an attempt to blow up the WTC.

The evidence that they may have been involved in blowing up the WTC buildings as well as their failed attempt to blow up the George Washington bridge isn't as solid as the van filled with explosives, to be sure. However, what do -you- think those "art students" were doing for a month before 9/11? It seems clear from what someone said here recently that they weren't supposed to be there, and just as clear that they had many ways of evading detection.

Originally posted by mmiichael
You want to live in denial of the established fact that a group of Arabs successfully planned and executed a massive attack on the US.

As I've mentioned previously, I'd be the last to deny that certain Arabs and muslims were involved. Surely you've heard of the wire transfer to Mohammed Atta from Pakistan's ISI? The fact that the general who made the transfer was in the U.S. at the time, and departed shortly thereafter? And then there's KuWam, who owned so much of Securacom. Securacom, ofcourse, had Bush's brother, on its board of directors before 9/11. Securacom also had substantial access to the Twin Towers, on the grounds that they were updating the security systems there, by atleast one report up until 9/11...

Originally posted by mmiichael
Even though there are warehouses full of documentation, convictions, confessions, forensic evidence all corroborating it.

Look, we agree that arabs were involved. What you seem to be avoiding is that so was Mossad. And it seems quite clear that they weren't only knowledgeable about the alleged hijackers.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by scott3x]

OK, I guess I'm not done as I thought.

I don't want to come off as doing some Israeli defense routine. I'm just sick of the incessant inflation of non-existent events into major stories that take on lives of their own.

For perspective, and you can check it out independently, 9/11 was the busiest and most choatic day in news reporting history. Hundreds of misreports, confused data, incorrect speculations and assumptions circulated and was picked up. The classic one is where Reuters was told WTC7 was collapsing at around 4:30, BBC picked it up, and a woman broadcaster reported it as already down minutes later. She didn't know she was standing in front of an image with it still on the skyline, just as few New Yorkers were aware the building was considered WTC7.

But this mistake never dies. Who would be dumb enough to think BBC was told it was going to be demolished and then let it slip onto a broadcast - I won't comment on.

I bring all this up because it's relevant. A friend of mine in the print media got a report at 9 AM that WTC had been hit by a small aircraft. Anyone woking in the media that day knows later proven incorrect reports were flying. It’s not exactly a secret mistakes are made by news services.

What we know can agree on. The police picked up a garbled report of a possible attempt to blow up the George Washington Bridge. No one knew at the time who was attacking the WTC and Pentagon. Anything remotely unusual was checked out. They stopped the Israelis in their moving van. They found boxcutters and maps inside. (something that any moving company would carry.) They took them in for questioning.

Later, when the story was being checked out, the police said they brought in the Israelis because their sniffer dogs reacted to something. But no actual explosives or residue were noted. So we can assume there was a thorough forensic examination of the van, that nothing was found of explosive material or any reason to keep the Israeli on anything beyond immigration violations.

Were there anything relevant not only national intelligence would have followed up, but it would have become one of the biggest stories of the decade. And I'm sure it's been checked out by a hundred investigators hungry.

But what de we have 8 years later - zip, nada. Just wild speculations repeated and inflated.

In any other circumstance it would be filed away as one of many misreports. But the Truther world has distorted it into a Mossad conspiracy. It ha been given legs to the extent that even some press sources have mentioned it.


It is hard enough to confirm many bonafide reports. Few want to take on the task of correcting erroneous ones. It’s not news. They generally left to die on their own.

In a murder trial, one has to supply a corpse, a body part, a strand of hair, to demonstrate a crime was committed. Or at the very least a credible witness. Assertions mean nothing.

We have here no explosives or anyone who saw any. We have no blown up bridge. We have no evidence the WTC buildings did not collapse due to the plane impacts, fires, loss of structural integrity.

Supply one shred of corroboration of the claim there were explosives and there might be something to discuss. Otherwise we just have another Truther story.


M

reply to post by mmiichael

Originally posted by mmiichael
OK, I guess I'm not done as I thought.

I was hoping you'd come around ;-).

Originally posted by mmiichael
I don't want to come off as doing some Israeli defense routine. I'm just sick of the incessant inflation of non-existent events into major stories that take on lives of their own.

If the events were non existent, multiple publications wouldn't have reported on them. I would argue that the fact that they've become major stories within the truth movement, despite the mainstream media's all but ignoring them points to their importance.

Originally posted by mmiichael
For perspective, and you can check it out independently, 9/11 was the busiest and most chaotic day in news reporting history. Hundreds of misreports, confused data, incorrect speculations and assumptions circulated and was picked up.

I agree. The question becomes, what were the misreports and what were the true reports? You seem to have come to the conclusion that the initial reports that I mentioned, stating that explosives were found packed in the van, were false, and that the later report, denying that explosives were found in the van, was true. You seem to ignore the fact that no explanation was given for this change of story, and seem equally uninterested in knowing the identities of both the policemen who initially claimed that the van was packed with explosives, as well as the "officers" who soon thereafter denied such reports. You also seem uninterested in what the anonymous counter terrorism expert had to say on the matter. You have never even provided an explanation for your disinterest. You can, ofcourse, continue to ignore all of these points, but it doesn't do your case any good.

Originally posted by mmiichael
The classic one is where Reuters was told WTC7 was collapsing at around 4:30, BBC picked it up, and a woman broadcaster reported it as already down minutes later. She didn't know she was standing in front of an image with it still on the skyline, just as few New Yorkers were aware the building was considered WTC7.

To be sure. Did you know that her feed was cut out just before the buiding started to collapse? Why do you suppose it cut out at that point? Finally, as you may know, the BBC later said that they had heard from another source that the building had collapsed. Do you know the identity of that source?

Originally posted by mmiichael
But this mistake never dies. Who would be dumb enough to think BBC was told it was going to be demolished and then let it slip onto a broadcast - I won't comment on.

The BBC itself has admitted that they were told it was going to collapse. There is clearly a difference between being told that the building is going to collapse and being told that the building is going to be demolished, but what I think you should think about is, whoever the BBC's source was, don't you think it rather interesting that they knew it was going to collapse, considering that no steel frame building had completely collapsed (a significant part which occurred at free fall speed, no less) due to fire before 9/11?

Originally posted by mmiichael
I bring all this up because it's relevant. A friend of mine in the print media got a report at 9 AM that WTC had been hit by a small aircraft. Anyone working in the media that day knows later proven incorrect reports were flying. It’s not exactly a secret mistakes are made by news services.

I have seen no evidence that the first tower was hit by a 757, and I have also heard the report that it was a small plane that hit the first building. I ask that you consider that what you think of as "misreports" are not necessarily so; that, in fact, it may be the later reports that may be the misreports.

Originally posted by mmiichael
What we know can agree on. The police picked up a garbled report of a possible attempt to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

You are mistaken. It was the Holland bridge that an anonymous caller stated had a suspicious Arab approaching it, as NBC reports in its article Exclusive: 911 Tapes Tell Horror Of 9/11 (Part 2) Tapes Released For First Time. The NBC report can no longer be found on their page, but whatreallyhappened.com has preserved it here:
whatreallyhappened.com...

Here is the relevant excerpt:

Dispatcher: Jersey City police.

Caller: Yes, we have a white van, 2 or 3 guys in there, they look like Palestinians and going around a building.

Caller: There's a minivan heading toward the Holland tunnel, I see the guy by Newark Airport mixing some junk and he has those sheikh uniform.

Dispatcher: He has what?

Caller: He's dressed like an Arab.

Originally posted by mmiichael
No one knew at the time who was attacking the WTC and Pentagon.

I would contend that many people still don't know. The main problem is that shortly after 9/11, the Bush administration and the mass media started drumming this idea into our heads that it was Osama Bin Laden and so many gave up on stories that may have led to realizing that the people behind 9/11 were more then just a group of Arab muslims.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Anything remotely unusual was checked out. They stopped the Israelis in their moving van. They found boxcutters and maps inside. (something that any moving company would carry.) They took them in for questioning.

That version of events is far to simplistic. Urban Moving Systems and the Israelies that worked there were far more than "remotely unusual", as I made clear in the OP. I really think you should read it more carefully, and perhaps check out some of the links in it. They didn't just "stop" Israelies in a moving van, they arrested them. And it would seem that there was more than one of Urban Moving Systems' vans involved in on 9/11, which you would also know if you had carefully studied the OP.

And according to the Israelies themselves, which you yourself have mentioned, far more then "questioning" was involved; and it would seem that the only reason they were released at all was because the White House intervened.

Maybe M can answer the question?
Where did all the movin and shaking dudes go?
Are they now moving body parts across the pond or something like that?
Who runs the company and how is it doin?

We're at an impasse, I'm afraid. You don't believe two passenger filled airliners were hijacked and flown into the WTC towers.

It's not my chosen role to convince you otherwise. You're obviously so deeply immersed in what I consider a swampland of disinformation - I doubt anything would dissuade you.

I'm not American, not supportive of the Bush admin, the media, or a spokesperson for Israel. But I don't think any reasonable intelligent person who has looked at the full range of evidence and analysis from thousands of independent sources can doubt the basic facts.

The Truther subculture may be adept at ducking and weaving with data, often using misreporting and errors as some kind of validation of their theories. But 9/11 happened right in front of thousands of private citizens who watched, photographed, recounted what happened. Some minor inconsistencies have crept in, but the fundamentals are immutable.

Nothing the contradicting sub-culture has put forward stands up to rigorous examination. No real evidence of bombs planted in the WTC, no missiles, no Israelis with explosives.

I hate to see malign falsehoods perpetuated. It damages us all.

I could say more, but it would fall on deaf ears.


M



[edit on 28-10-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael

Originally posted by mmiichael
Later, when the story was being checked out, the police said they brought in the Israelis because their sniffer dogs reacted to something. But no actual explosives or residue were noted.

Michael, no matter how many times you refer to later stories, the original stories state that the van was packed with explosives, enough to "do great damage to the George Washington Bridge", as a news report mentions and which can be seen here:
www.youtube.com...

In that same video, there's audio from police stating that a van -exploded- and that they had 2 suspects "under k" which essentially means "under control".

Originally posted by mmiichael
Were there anything relevant not only national intelligence would have followed up, but it would have become one of the biggest stories of the decade.

Michael, are you aware of how many conspiracies have been covered up? Do you know, for instance, that the Gulf of Tonkin incident, that led America into a full fledged war in Vietnam, was a complete fabrication? Do you know that Roosevelt -wanted- the japanese to attack Pearl Harbor so that he could go to war "only if provoked", as he had promised the american people, and that he purposely didn't inform his commanders in Pearl Harbor that the Japanese were going to attack them, which could have saved many lives that day? Have you heard of the think tank PNAC, which included people like Donald Rumsfeld as well as many others that would later become part of George W. Bush's administration, and a paper they wrote called Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategies, Forces, and Resources For a New Century?

Within that paper, this was written:
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" (51)"

Given that Pearl Harbor itself was an inside job, what do you suppose was meant by this line?

Originally posted by mmiichael
And I'm sure it's been checked out by a hundred investigators hungry.

There certainly have been some good investigators in regards to 9/11, but freedom of the press belongs to those who own one. The last bastion of free speech for the underdog press is online; here, atleast, you can find out quite a bit, but you have to be interested in doing some research.

Originally posted by mmiichael
In a murder trial, one has to supply a corpse, a body part, a strand of hair, to demonstrate a crime was committed. Or at the very least a credible witness.

The witnesses are out there. The main problem is that there were those within the official investigation that really didn't -want- to listen to witnesses who had things to say that went against the official story. The gag orders against Sibel Edmonds, and the smear campaign against one of the members of the Able Danger team, which politician Curt Weldon brought up, are 2 good examples.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Assertions mean nothing.

Assertions without evidence to back them up don't mean very much, I agree.

Originally posted by mmiichael
We have here no explosives or anyone who saw any.

Well I hope you've now realized that this isn't the case.

Originally posted by mmiichael
We have no blown up bridge.

The reason this is so may in fact be due to the intelligence of the police once they received the anonymous call. whatreallyhappened.com elaborates on this in its article The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11:

How did they know there would be an event to document on 9/11?

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots of the dancing Israeli Mossad agents - here's the most logical scenario:

1. The Israeli "movers" cheered the 9-11 attacks to celebrate the successful accomplishment of the greatest spy operation ever pulled off in history.

2. One of them, or an accomplice, then calls a 9-1-1 police dispatcher to report Palestinian bomb-makers in a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel.

3. Having thus pre-framed the Palestinians with this phone call, the Israeli bombers then head for the George Washington Bridge instead, where they will drop off their time-bomb van and escape with Urban Moving accomplices.

4. But the police react very wisely and proactively by closing off ALL bridges and tunnels instead of just the Holland Tunnel. This move inadvertently foils the Israelis' misdirection play and leads to their own capture and 40 day torture.

Originally posted by mmiichael
We have no evidence the WTC buildings did not collapse due to the plane impacts, fires, loss of structural integrity.

There's plenty of evidence, but perhaps you haven't seen it yet. Have you read Steven Jones excellent peer reviewed paper on the subject, Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?? That holds a plethora of evidence that the only way that the WTC bulidings could have collapsed the way they did was through controlled demolitions.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by scott3x]

reply to post by Donny 4 million

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Maybe M can answer the question?
Where did all the movin and shaking dudes go?
Are they now moving body parts across the pond or something like that?
Who runs the company and how is it doin?

The answer to that question was also provided in the OP, laugh :-). To whit:

A few days after the attacks, Urban Moving System's Israeli owner, Dominick Suter, dropped his business and fled the country for Israel. He was in such a hurry to flee America that some of Urban Moving System's customers were left with their furniture stranded in storage facilities (21).

Suter's departure was abrupt, leaving behind coffee cups, sandwiches, cell phones and computers strewn on office tables and thousands of dollars of goods in storage. Suter was later placed on the same FBI suspect list as 9/11 lead hijacker Mohammed Atta and other hijackers and suspected al-Qaeda sympathizers, suggesting that U.S. authorities felt Suter may have known something about the attacks. (22)

As to what Urban Systems was all about before its owner fled the country, the article continues:

The Jewish weekly The Forward reported that the FBI finally concluded that at least two of the detained Israelis were agents working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and that Urban Moving Systems, the ostensible employer of the five Israelis, was a front operation. This was confirmed by two former CIA officers, and they noted that movers' vans are a common intelligence cover. (23). The Israelis were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released. (24).

Further information on Urban Moving Systems can be found in the following copy of Christopher Ketcham's special investigation into the issue over at Counterpunch, and which has been saved in its entirety over at whatreallyhappened.com, titled High-Fivers and Art Student Spies [:] What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?:

All five future hijackers of American Airlines Flight 77, which rammed the Pentagon, maintained addresses or were active within a six-mile radius of towns associated with the Israelis employed at Urban Moving Systems. Hudson and Bergen counties, the areas where the Israelis were allegedly conducting surveillance, were a central staging ground for the hijackers of Flight 77 and their fellow al-Qaeda operatives. Mohammed Atta maintained a mail-drop address and visited friends in northern New Jersey; his contacts there included Hani Hanjour, the suicide pilot for Flight 77, and Majed Moqed, one of the strongmen who backed Hanjour in the seizing of the plane. Could the Israelis, with or without knowledge of the terrorists' plans, have been tracking the men who were soon to hijack Flight 77?

In public statements, both the Israeli government and the FBI have denied that the Urban Moving Systems men were involved in an intelligence operation in the United States. "No evidence recovered suggested any of these Israelis had prior knowledge of the 9/11 attack, and these Israelis are not suspected of working for Mossad", FBI spokesman Jim Margolin told me. (The Israeli embassy did not respond to questions for this article.) According to the source at ABC News, FBI investigators chafed at the denials from their higher-ups. "There is a lot of frustration inside the bureau about this case", the source told me. "They feel the higher echelons torpedoed the investigation into the Israeli New Jersey cell. Leads were not fully investigated". Among those lost leads was the figure of Dominik Suter, whom the U.S. authorities apparently never attempted to contact. Intelligence expert and author James Bamford told me there was similar frustration within the CIA: "People I've talked to at the CIA were outraged at what was going on. They thought it was outrageous that there hadn't been a real investigation, that the facts were hanging out there without any conclusion."

However, what was "absolutely certain", according to Vincent Cannistraro, was that the five Israelis formed part of a surveillance network in the New York- New Jersey area. The network's purpose was to track radical Islamic extremists and/or supporters of militant Palestinian groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. The former CIA counterterrorism officer who spoke anonymously told me that FBI investigators determined that the suspect Israelis were serving as Arabic-speaking linguists "running technical operations" in northern New Jersey's extensive Muslim communities. The former CIA officer said the operations included taps on telephones, placement of microphones in rooms and mobile surveillance. The source at ABC News agreed: "Our conclusion was that they were Arab linguists involved in monitoring operations, i.e., electronic surveillance. People at FBI concur with this". The ABC News source added, "What we heard was that the Israelis may have picked up chatter that something was going to happen on the morning of 9/11".

The former CIA counterterrorism officer told me: "There was no question but that [the order to close down the investigation] came from the White House. It was immediately assumed at CIA headquarters that this basically was going to be a cover-up so that the Israelis would not be implicated in any way in 9/11. Bear in mind that this was a political issue, not a law enforcement or intelligence issue. If somebody says we don't want the Israelis implicated in this - we know that they've been spying the hell out of us, we know that they possibly had information in advance of the attacks, but this would be a political nightmare to deal with."

The article continues, pointing out that there is yet more evidence that certain Israelies were deep into the spying game here in America. I'd get into it, but the word limit per post is coming up so that'll be all for now :-p.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by scott3x]

reply to post by mmiichael

Originally posted by mmiichael
We're at an impasse, I'm afraid. You don't believe two passenger filled airliners were hijacked and flown into the WTC towers.

The second plane was fully captured on videotape; I'm not sure whether any passenger were on it, but it, atleast, was the size of a 757. However, in regards to the first plane, there is evidence that it wasn't as large as a 757.

Originally posted by mmiichael
It's not my chosen role to convince you otherwise. You're obviously so deeply immersed in what I consider a swampland of disinformation - I doubt anything would dissuade you.

You talk of disinformation, but you forget that disinformation thrives in people who refuse to examine the evidence objectively. Why don't you tell me what evidence there is that the first plane was indeed a 757? If you fail to do this, you are merely showing that you're uninterested in actually providing evidence for what you believe.

Originally posted by mmiichael
I'm not American, not supportive of the Bush admin, the media, or a spokesperson for Israel. But I don't think any reasonable intelligent person who has looked at the full range of evidence and analysis from thousands of independent sources can doubt the basic facts.

The real question is, are you such a person? Every time I present you with questions that put the official story into question, you seem to ignore them. To me, this implies that you are averse to examining evidence that doesn't fit into your worldview.

Originally posted by mmiichael
The Truther subculture may be adept at ducking and weaving with data, often using misreporting and errors as some kind of validation of their theories.

I would argue that it's the official story supporters that do this the most. Clearly, we're not going to get far by pointing fingers here; what's needed is evidence; I, atleast, have been working hard to provide it.

Originally posted by mmiichael
But 9/11 happened right in front of thousands of private citizens who watched, photographed, recounted what happened.

I agree. And yet, the only version of the events that you seem to be interested in hearing is the official story's side.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Some minor inconsistencies have crept in, but the fundamentals are immutable.

The fact that you can dismiss the mountains of evidence against the official story as "minor inconsistencies" leads me to conclude that it's very difficult for you to accept the possibility that elements of the government may have been a part of 9/11. This belief is reinforced by your constant avoidance of dealing with issues that would point to the truth being other than what the official story would have you believe.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Nothing the contradicting sub-culture has put forward stands up to rigorous examination.

If you were saying that about the official story, I believe that statement would be much more truthful; as I've pointed out earlier, you are the one who continuously avoids examining facts that would suggest that it's the official story that is mistaken.

Originally posted by mmiichael
No real evidence of bombs planted in the WTC,

Have you read the article from Steven Jones that I mentioned earlier, that pointed out the evidence of the military grade explosive nanothermite in the WTC dust?

Originally posted by mmiichael
no missiles,

Here, atleast, we can agree; even notable truther sites have pointed out that there is no evidence that any missiles were used.

Originally posted by mmiichael
no Israelis with explosives.

You can say this as much as you like, but the news reports that I've presented make it clear that not only were there Israelies with explosives, but atleast some of those explosives went off.

Originally posted by mmiichael
I hate to see malign falsehoods perpetuated. It damages us all.

I agree that perpetuating falsehoods is something that should be curbed. The question remains, however, as to which of the statements made in this thread are false.

Originally posted by mmiichael
I could say more, but it would fall on deaf ears.

When I write to you, I'm fully aware that you may not change your point of view. Then again, you might. Furthermore, even if I don't change your point of view, we're not alone here; others are listening, and this post is for them as well.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by scott3x]

reply to post by mmiichael


No matter whose right and whose wrong, like you say, there's probably a Real truth behind and explaining everything, quite complementary to both sides. Truth is part myth, part plan, part coincidence and part natural. When what really happened is revealed some day into the future, the Sun might shine on one as it rains on the other. 9/11 Power Security Module, the Economic Agenda World Crisis, the CO2 Climate Hysteria and now the Bovine Crap Pandemic Paranoia. These are all orchestrated social manipulation models with so much in common that some need to get down to Earsth and rethink what's really going on. TPTB are building up towards a great Finale, where everyone will be so manipulated and indoctrinated that they will wish to die from "reason", they will be so scared of the world that they will rather freeze to death on the North Pole than to live in Babylon. What we've seen is just the Preludium, soon we'll be so used to International Crisis Phenomena

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Very good my opponent in truth. Let's start with William Cohen. Secretary of Defense For the Country Of America in the year 2001 .Tell me what you know about him. Is he in any way connected to Mossad?

Cohen, as Clinton's appointed Secretary of Defense into 2001 would have interfaced with Mossad as well as over a hundred other international intelligence services as part of his job requirement.

I'm sure you're going to tell us there's more to it. Let's hear.


M

[edit on 27-10-2009 by mmiichael]

This man was in charge of protecting the USA from attack correct?
Ya know like the 911 type.
That was what he got paid for correct?
By American tax payers correct?
He was not elected to the position correct?
.He differed with the sitting President correct?
He never was in the military correct?
Not even the National Guard correct?
He never defended anything correct?
Oh yeah! The budget. correct?
So what the hell did he hand America and Rummy on January 20 2001?
He did support having day care in the Murray building didn't he?
Would you like to post his family background?
Double dare ya!
Oh yeah you already made the Mossad connection for us.
Should he not be vilified like dubya and rummy and cheny?