Is political correctness to blame for lack of coverage over horrific black-on-white killings in Amer

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Yes you did. On pages 4 and 5 you called me a racist and made no mention of it being your opinion. You flat out cllaed me a racist, stop lying the proof has already been posted.

So, what you're saying is, unless everybody on ATS places a disclaimer on everything they post, what they say is not an opinion, it's a statement of fact by default? Because they didn't specify it was their opinion? Good luck with that. If you can present where i said "you're an absolute racist, and i have proof", you would have a point and i would be a liar, but i never said that. Anything i say on ATS is my opinion, unless i state is it a fact and back it up with proof. I assume that of everything i read here, i guess my mistake was also assuming others assumed the same. My bad. After you started demanding "proof" of my opinion, i was more clear in stating it was my opinion. Buddy.

And perhaps EMPIRE, you would answer the question i asked earlier. Where do people like our president fit in? African father, so he's not a descendant of slaves, raised by his white mother, and her side of the family. Does he take responsibility for slavery? Should he be, or have the right to be resentful towards his own family for slavery? I'm pretty sure a big percentage of blacks in the U.S. have some white genes, given the obvious physical differences between "african-americans" and africans. Do only "pure" white people need to accept responsibility? What if we're honestly not sure of all the races and genetics in our families and ancestors? That's why it's so ridiculous, we need to let race go. It should be COMPLETELY irrelevant, "purity" is a thing of the past...

[edit on 20-10-2009 by 27jd]

Originally posted by 27jd

So, what you're saying is, unless everybody on ATS places a disclaimer on everything they post, what they say is not an opinion, it's a statement of fact by default?

No, what I'm saying is when you make claims you back your claims when asked. ATS says this is what you do. Moreover, ATS also says when someone calls you names, that you don't engage them back and call them names. I have done nothing of the sort with you. Now do I believe some of the posters here are not the sharpest knives in the drawer? Yes, and I've given substantial evidence to support this claim. However, when I ask those who call me a racist to prove it they don't do it. You are a prime example.

Because they didn't specify it was their opinion? Good luck with that. If you can present where i said "you're an absolute racist, and i have proof", you would have a point and i would be a liar, but i never said that.

The inclusion of "absolute" does not change the meaning and the fact that you initally called me a racist. Again, because you aren't to sharp with this I'll show you:

"You're a racist"

"It is my opinion you're a racist"

Why is it you have a hard time comprehending the difference? Again, you can have the opinion, but when you state it as FACT, which you did because you stated it four times and never once said it was your opinion, you are then required to prove your claims, and I have every right to ask you to prove it.

Anything i say on ATS is my opinion, unless i state is it a fact and back it up with proof. I assume that of everything i read here, i guess my mistake was also assuming others assumed the same. My bad. After you started demanding "proof" of my opinion, i was more clear in stating it was my opinion. Buddy.

Again, there is a difference between "IMO you're a racist" and "You're an [absolute] racist."

In closing, I'm not crying about anything because what did I originally tell you to do? PROVE IT. I asked you and others to present a sufficient definition and to compare and contrast my words and actions with it and so far not ONE of you has made an attempt to do so.

In closing, you said it, I couldn't care less, you proved what I said and that is enough for me.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by EMPIRE]

[edit on 20-10-2009 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by EMPIRE


Ok, I have confused people in the past on threads, I understand.

Now that you realize we have not discussed this historical context you claim backs your opinion about whites taking responsibility, how about now putting this information out?

As far as PC goes, this is what elites have come up to bugger us all. Nothing to do with all white people taking responsibility.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by 27jd


I've already stated people on all sides need to address the issues. However, if you benefit from White Privilege there is a way you should address it. If you are black, there are ways you need to address it. None of it involves finger pointing but mainly involves self-reflection, an honest attempt to listen, an honest attempt to reach out, and an honest attempt to move forward in unison AFTER the problems on both sides have been addressed. This has been stated over and over in this thread, yet you people furiously rant and rave about how you're not responsible and how white privilege doesn't exist. You people have stood bold and said you would not give your fellow man the time of the day.

As I've stated in my first post, the problem will continue.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by EMPIRE]

This is the newest information I could find from the Department Of Justice.

For black offenders and white victims, the percentage of all homicides began at 6.0 in 1976 and decreased to 5.9 in 1977.
Then the percentage rose to 8.9 in 1993, before falling to a low of 7.5 in 1998. Then it climbed to 8.8 in 2005.

For white offender and black victims, the percentage of all homicides began at 2.0 in 1976 and increased, reaching 2.4 in 1977.
The percentage then decreased, reaching 1.8 in 1978, before increasing to 3.5 in 2003, where it remained constant until 2004.
After 2004, it decreased to 3.2 in 2005.
www.ojp.usdoj.gov...

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Now do I believe some of the posters here are not the sharpest knives in the drawer? Yes, and I've given substantial evidence to support this claim.

Really? You've obtained past test scores and school records of these 'dull knives'? Please present those, because the "evidence" you consider "substantial" is nothing more than posts you've read on ATS...the EXACT same evidence i could site supporting MY opinion as fact, that you're a racist. The "evidence" you have, is nothing more than you're opinion. You're hypocrisy is astounding.

reply to post by EMPIRE


Yeah, in other words you got nothing.

Cenpuppie and I had a good discussion on the history part, and yet you didn't chime in, even though you were participating in the thread.

I have spent all this time trying to get you to post the history that backs your claim, and now that you admit you don't have a link to a prior discussion, and that it was with someone else, you still refuse to present your evidence that you claim backs you up.

All you have posted is propaganda. Just because you do a good job of posting propaganda doesn't mean you have any ideas of any merit, just a lot of false accusations.

What has become clear is that you are not worth my time.

reply to post by 27jd


Constantly asking the same questions, relying on fallacies, taking my words out of context and misconstruing what was said, asking questions when the answers were clearly provided, making claims I'm a racist and failing to provide evidence, not critically reading and analyizing, providing knee jerk responses, flat out lying and showing hypocrisy, I've shown exactly who is guilty of this and it doesn't involve me. Take a look at the guy posting right above this post. This guy opened up a can of worms by saying I was good at posting propaganda, then he comes around and claims he is listening and that I should explain things in greater detail/provide clarity. See, this is the type of hypocrisy and lunacy I'm talking about, but people like you and him won't address it because you're too warped in your ways and predisposed to not listening if it requires you to step outside your comfort zone.

I can prove my case, regardless of if you accept it or not, but I can and have done so. Can you prove your claim that I'm a racist? Do so and I'll leave this thread.




[edit on 20-10-2009 by EMPIRE]

Originally posted by EMPIRE
You people have stood bold and said you would not give your fellow man the time of the day.

I would gladly give my fellow man the time of day, if he approached me with respect and understood that i won't accept blame or negativity directed towards me for no reason other than my skin color. If he did those things, i would gladly help my fellow man in any way i could.

As I've stated in my first post, the problem will continue.

I agree. Until race is 100% non-relevant, it will continue. There will always be tensions going back and forth, as long as there is division among humans. As has been said already, it's planned division to keep focus off those who are playing us all. None of us common people have "priviledge" in their system.

reply to post by EMPIRE

Who here in this thread said they don’t believe it? Yes blacks have a higher rate, but when studying correlation and causation you have to look at other factors.

Correlation and causation of Murder?

You are not defending this, or blaming it on Oppression, are you?

(No, seriously... are you?)

yet you have people in this thread who will take things out of context and make it seem as if blacks are killing up everyone on the globe.

10 times the murder rate per capita sounds a little scary to me.

I could see why someone would have difficulty in purchasing land in an all black area.

Which would cause demand for that land to plummet, which would lower property values...


So, if by "White Privilege" you mean, Economic impoverishment based on Fear of Violence... then I can see your point.

You didn’t list any examples, except if you mean the info in your link.

Yes, that is what I was referring to.

Direct link via skin color and the fact that America is set up to cater to the elites first, white Americans second.

No, this is an illusion.

America is set to cater to Corporations/Banks First, Politicians Second, and the People third.

They don't care about skin color, but it *IS* useful to keep us fighting against each other, so we never rise against them.

White Privilege. That is a VERY concrete answer.

No, it is not.


IT is a shifty, ambiguous way to answer a question, without giving any REAL answers.

War torn nations which are the result of slavery, colonialism, the World Conservation Bank, IMF, and others

Yeah, Im not arguing with you here.... but Living in America *STILL* beats living in Africa.

(Which was my point)

OH, and you also forgot Warlords and Greed.

White people benefit from slavery in the form of institutional deviance and white privilege.

Ok, I heard of "White Privlidge" but never "Institutional Deviance"

From what I can find, this means.... what... cops ganging up on blacks?

Im not sure, if you can give a link to the definition or something, I would be happy to respond, I can't seem to find one.

However, because you deny that white privilege exists and have a warped concept of it

We have not had any conversation about white privilege before, how can you claim to know what my ideas of it are?

You seem to be projecting from your conversations with others in this thread.

From Wiki:

In critical race theory, white privilege is a set of advantages that are believed to be enjoyed by white people beyond those commonly experienced by non-white people in the same social, political, and economic spaces (nation, community, workplace, income, etc.). Theorists differentiate it from racism or prejudice because, they say, a person who may benefit from white privilege is not necessarily racist or prejudiced and may be unaware of having any privileges reserved only for whites.

Hmmm... privileges that cannot be seen, or measured, that no one is aware of...

Not really a good case for it's existence, is it?


I could easily call black privilege, that guarantees some jobs to blacks because of affirmative action, or the backing of hate crime laws, or whatnot...


It's easy to claim that white people are benefiting from racism, ascribing it to a red herring of "White Privilege" that defies explanation or concrete observation.

But it is poor character to claim that White people prosper because they oppress black people.


As if White people don't work hard.


There have ALWAYS been black people of talent, and skill that rise to the top, and become richer, better off, and more respected than their peers.

We have one running the United States right now.

Oprah is the richest women in the world (Unless I am missing an oil sheik heiress or bill gates wife or something)

George Washington Carver.... the man did AMAZING things with Peanuts.

I could go ON AND ON...


It is true, there are not as many prominent Black Americans as there are Prominent White Americans.

That is because MOST of America is White, and NOT EVERYONE becomes prominent, or rich.

Most people just eek out a living.

It's not a "Privilege" its just statistics.

www.infoplease.com...


-Edrick

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by EMPIRE
You people have stood bold and said you would not give your fellow man the time of the day.

I would gladly give my fellow man the time of day, if he approached me with respect and understood that i won't accept blame or negativity directed towards me for no reason other than my skin color. If he did those things, i would gladly help my fellow man in any way i could.

You're far from the truth. Here it is you called me a racist when I never said anything to you. I never said anything negative about you that has to do with your skin color. What I've said about YOU has to do with your misconceptions and predisposition to sweeo everything under the rug. Moreover, you're presenting falsehoods, because if I'm not mistaken, you said I sound like a woman for even suggesting that people start listening (and I think you even said I better be a black woman or something like that, I don't know just going off what I remember reading.)

I agree. Until race is 100% non-relevant, it will continue. There will always be tensions going back and forth, as long as there is division among humans. As has been said already, it's planned division to keep focus off those who are playing us all. None of us common people have "priviledge" in their system.

Refer to prvious comments. It will not be an issue until class is destroyed. It will no longer be an issue and until you sit back and see if the white race, as a whole, has white privilege, Because you may or may not experience it on a daily basis, or in the way you think one would if they had such a thing, does not mean it doesn't happen, or that it doesn't exist.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Can you prove your claim that I'm a racist? Do so and I'll leave this thread.

Originally posted by EMPIREThe white race, as a whole, has never really accepted or taken responsibility for the way they've treated other people. Moreover, they have not acknowledged white privilege and the fact that oppression has been more beneficial to them than anyone else on the planet. Therefore, being "PC" as some of you may call it is the way some take responsibility (and to me it is a cop out).

That was the first thing you posted. That's some racist BS right there, friend. I'm white and I've never treated ANYBODY badly who didn't first treat me badly. I can say that in complete honesty. Then you go on to back pedal and make a half @ssed blanket disapproval of the term "hate crime" yada yada. But that was the FIRST thing that you posted. To me, you're a racist, and there is MY proof. Peace out.

reply to post by Edrick


reply to post by 27jd


I will address these tommorow, I do have to leave now. I'll probably have 400 EMPIRE IS RACIST type posts to address but oh well.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by EMPIRE]

Originally posted by EMPIRE
You're far from the truth. Here it is you called me a racist when I never said anything to you. I never said anything negative about you that has to do with your skin color.

You certainly did, see my above post.

Because you may or may not experience it on a daily basis, or in the way you think one would if they had such a thing, does not mean it doesn't happen, or that it doesn't exist.

I think Edrick did a fine job of addressing that above as well...

Originally posted by EMPIRE
You're far from the truth.

Here's a direct example of me giving my fellow man the time of day, on another thread a while back....

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by ######
Well every black city in America is in ruins so we don't need a black man running America when blacks can't even run their own houses....

Wow. Well, there's a pretty openly racist comment.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by ######
How is it racist? It's a hard and true fact that every inner city that blacks control is crime ridden. Just because it's true makes it a racist comment?

But blacks don't control any cities, all cities are all under the control of the same corrupt state and federal government. There are trailer parks that are crap holes, too. Poverty is what creates those crime ridden places, not race.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

See, i don't apply double standards, i condemn racism in all of it's forms. If that's not enough to win me the respect and friendship of darker skinned humans, i don't want their friendship.



[edit on 20-10-2009 by 27jd]

Originally posted by EMPIRE

Let us first define what a troll is. I’m not a fan of Wikipedia, but since most people here cite it as a source I’ll use it.

No that doesn't really work. ATS has plenty of trolls that are very very capable of annoying people, without swearing or going off topic. It's not what is said, but how it is said which is the thing I'm talking about.

I don’t know if you have issues with being passive or aggressive, but you confuse cogency and the ability to stand firm with being rude. Moreover, I have no eagerness or desire to achieve acceptance. Do I demand respect? Yes. Will I give it? Yes.

I have problems with being aggressive. Nowhere on the box does it say that ATS is a debate site, it's a discussion site. One man's assertiveness is another man's rudeness, depending on the context, and the context here is controversial and bound to get people at odds with each other.

Sometimes I think the ATS rules which dont allow rudeness or swearing work against the site, there are people very capable of being annoying and rude covertly, something the mods can do nothing about, and will only frustrate and goad other members into breaking the rules. There are many here who are good at that.

As for respect, I'm sure you've heard the phrase that respect is earned. Not sure how you expect people to respect you just because you demand it.

On topic, you wont find many raving racist lunatics on ATS, which is nice. So while I applaud you "speaking up for" blacks, you really don't need to be so hard on these good people.

No you won’t find them. What you’ll find are “blind racist” and covert racist. The blind racist don’t know they’re being racist.

Earlier in the thread you made the assumption that everyone here was an angry white male. Without knowing any of the people here face to face. Then shortly afterwards you admonished someone for assuming you were black. My point is that you can't see who's sitting behind the keyboard just because of the people they defend or attack, sometimes you might be surprised.

I believe its our laws that continue the race divide. When you make rules to give a group more authority than another in race. Equal rights were already in place and the new additions tipped the scale. Including sexual differences where if a woman files an objection it seems to caary more weight than a mans' defence. A white can't claim discrimination becuse he is still considered a majority - not equal to a minority.