What is Astral Travel

Before anyone tears this post to shreds I am only showing a point.

When you awake in the morning, or after a dream - whenever that may be -and you try to remember a dream it fades very quickly to where you almost have no memory at all and in most cases it is comepletely forgotten, if ever remebered at all. Just because you can't remember your dream, does that mean you never dream? If you have never remembered a dream in your entire life, yet millions of people describe them to you, would you believe that dreams didn't exist? You would be right, because they wouldn't exist for you, but their reality is conclusive - by third part perception.

If you fell asleep one night and you had a dream and in this dream you were a baby and you grew older, you felt every emotion and pain there is. You went to school and lived your life and at the end of the dream you died. If you lived an entire lifetime in this dream and never suspected you were dreaming during your dream, would you believe that it was not reality in your dream?

You would be wrong, I believe, because your reality is what it is. If you believe something is real and it is real to you, then it is real.

If you awoke tomorrow into another world and remembered this dream that you are living now, would you think that what you experienced here was not real? Would you believe it a dream?

Now, I don't believe we are in a dream now, but I am only making a point. The point is clearly that what we understand as reality varies from individual to individual. Every single person in the world has a different perception of the world around them. Everyone's circumstances are different and so are their experiences.

If you live in an area that has never had asphalt roads and you have never heard of or seen asphalt, would you believe it when somone told you it exists? You would be right if you said you wouldn't believe it, because it wouldn't exist for you. Until you have it, hold it and understand it it isn't real for you.

I have said before, but will again. If everyone in the world had no eyes and had never seen a single image before and you were born with eyes, how hard do you think it would be to desrcibe what you see? The colors, the shades, the brightness, what a bird's feather's look like, stars in the sky, the sun giving off heat.

Would anyone believe you? Would they think it wasn't real or a fantastic story? Would they tell you it doesn't exist? Would they call you crazy? Would they try to explain to you why you think you are "seeing" these objects?

Would you know they are wrong?





[edit on 28-10-2009 by esteay812]

reply to post by esteay812


Poor analogy in my opinion. What happens inside your head is nothing more than how the brain, an organ is processing the information it receives. It isn't dictating what is real, your not dictating what is real. You may have no knowledge of asphalt, but that does not detract from asphalt existing. You can go out and see asphalt yourself, you can experience it just as everyone can experience it and know that it exists. Yet, when we get into descriptions of these esoteric mystical spiritual realms of existence, not everyone can experience it, not everyone can perceive it and not everyone has the same 'reality' of it. In most cases, what happens in these planes is dictated by personal beliefs and cultural norms, not on any set true underlying reality.

[EDIT TO ADD]

In cases like astral travel, we have to sit and meditate or enter a different state of mind to achieve a conscious dream-state in order to achieve this feat. The more simplest answer to this is that the whole thing takes place in our heads and not in some esoteric different reality that defies everything known to man, defies everything we base our technology on.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by sirnex]

reply to post by sirnex


You should choose your words better.

"We" do not have to get into any type of altered state. Maybe you do, but since you have conceded you never have had an experience of this nature maybe you can not. Maybe asphalt was a porr anology for you, but it's use is for lack of not knowing what type of substance exists on another planet that you would say did not exist if you knew nothing of it.

Because you can't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it means it doesn't, and probably never will, exist or you.

Because your physical reality is in your head does in no way mean that all reality occurs in your head I guess there are frequencies and sounds that, because you can not hear them or guage them, means they don't exist.

Because you are telling me I am wrong do you not realize that I know you are wrong?

[edit on 29-10-2009 by esteay812]

reply to post by esteay812

"We" do not have to get into any type of altered state. Maybe you do, but since you have conceded you never have had an experience of this nature maybe you can not.

Your right, some people are able to enter a conscious meditative dream-state at will.

Maybe asphalt was a porr anology for you, but it's use is for lack of not knowing what type of substance exists on another planet that you would say did not exist if you knew nothing of it.

I believe the analogy is still piss poor.

Because you can't experience it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it means it doesn't, and probably never will, exist or you.

Yes, I know... You have to 'believe' in it in order for it to work, I get that already. That type of belief just keeps reminding me of that article on why people believe in ESP. LINK

Because your physical reality is in your head does in know way mean that all reality occurs in your head. Because you are telling me I am wrong do you not know that I know you are wrong?

Half hairy buttocks backwards if you ask me. We exist within physical reality, not it exists within us. I have yet to see one shred of evidence for all this metaphysical explanations of the universe.

reply to post by sirnex



You have yet to see it and oyu probably never will. Everything you have stated is nothing more than your opinion and name calling doesn' make it any more of a viable explanation.

Can't you see the fact that your are both right and wrong?

reply to post by esteay812


Nor does the purposeful misuse of science make the arguments any more valid. You can't prove an assumption with an assumption nor can you prove something by taking the science of something and claiming it says something it simply does not state at all.

Fact is, if Tiller is trying to claim that acupuncture activates the weak electromagnetic force, he is wrong. If he is wrong about that, what else is he wrong about?

So sirnex, do you just believe when we die, we just rot in the ground?? What do you think about the big picture?? Do you think the universe spawned by accident?? Why would all of this come from chance?? Randomness? Not trying to get into a HUGE debate. Just wondering on your position on the afterlife/universe.

reply to post by Maddogkull

So sirnex, do you just believe when we die, we just rot in the ground??

Yes, just like all life on this planet does. Rots and get's used by other thing's living.

What do you think about the big picture??

What big picture?

Do you think the universe spawned by accident?? Why would all of this come from chance?? Randomness?

No, I don't believe in chance nor randomness nor do I know the cause of the universe nor does anyone who attempts to claim they know where it came from.

Not trying to get into a HUGE debate. Just wondering on your position on the afterlife/universe

I don't mind debating my beliefs or against any one else' beliefs, how else are we supposed to learn if we don't question each other?

I know I’m just saying i was just wondering your beliefs I’m just not in the mood today to get into a huge debate lol. But how do you think the universe started?

reply to post by Maddogkull

But how do you think the universe started?

I don't know is the best most honest answer I can give. If I were to guess, I would assume it has always just been here. Look at the two answers that we have for where it came from, both are based on certain assumptions that have never been proven. I don't subscribe to people who claim to have the answers when the answers are assumptions without evidences.

The way I see it, man created God and there is so much evidence for this. I see no logical reason to believe in a God either, I see no drive for an infinitely existing being to, out of one infinite moment decide to create an entire universe billions of light years large for one tiny infinitesimal race of beings and call them the chosen ones. How arrogant are we to assume that is true? How ridiculously special do people *really* need to feel? Can't the fact that we exist be special enough in it's own right?

Originally posted by sirnex

What do you think about the big picture??

What big picture?

Anyone who is studying/practicing OBE is encouraged to take this free survey I've set up: take this survey

I'm going to post this around, and when I eventually get a sufficient number of results to start seeing definite patterns, I'll share them in a new thread. This survey is only for those who are actively studying/pursuing OBEs. Please answer the questions accurately and honestly. Thank you.

reply to post by bsbray11


How's the survey going? I just answered it. Are we getting results soon?

-v

reply to post by v01i0


I only have 14 data sets so far. I was meaning to post the link around on other forums to try to get a larger sample, I'll have to get on that.

reply to post by bsbray11


Duh, it was obvious that I was the 14th one, figures... But nevertheless, I am curious to hear about your findings. If you are so kind and remember that I've asked, could you note me with a u2u once you're done?

Thanks, and good luck in getting more answers!

-v

reply to post by v01i0


I'll u2u them to you.

And anyone else interested, I can do the same, I just don't want to post them right here next to the survey so as to influence peoples' answers.