Abraham Lincoln = America's greatest war criminal!

reply to post by Ahabstar


My bad I must have missed read that, when I was looking it up.. Sorry for that I will correct it... Thanks for Pointing that out.

Here's the quote,

"I do not perceive that because the because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything" ~ Abraham Lincoln

That's only the end of a longer quote in which Lincoln says he feels negroes shouldn't have the rights to vote, run for office, be treated equally, come into contact with white people, etc.

reply to post by Nosred


Post a link to that... And after I proved that Dem Presidents were the War Mongers you never recanted your statement.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


There are Democratic warmongers too of course, that's why I don't vote for either. Sorry about that anyways though. I'd also like to point out also how that entire list came after Lincolns presidency.

Originally posted by Nosred
Here's the quote,

"I do not perceive that because the because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything" ~ Abraham Lincoln

That's only the end of a longer quote in which Lincoln says he feels negroes shouldn't have the rights to vote, run for office, be treated equally, come into contact with white people, etc.

This thread is so wrong on so many levels, and the OP has also shown himself to be quite naive as to the facts of history.

As Slayer pointed out, the South initiated hostilities by firing on Fort Sumpter in South Carolina.

It is also a huge historical mistake to try and use today's morals and standards against what people of the past have said and done. The people of the past based their thoughts and lives on the current thinking of the day and not based on how they guessed people in the far future might judge them.

To avoid hypocrisy on what I just said, try living your life based on what you think the people of the year 2157 - same number of years in the future as the Civil War was in the past - might think is right. What if you're wrong?



[edit on 10/13/2009 by centurion1211]

reply to post by Nosred


I dont have the book of Lincolns life, so If you please, post the link.

reply to post by centurion1211


I wasn't trying to use todays morals someone in a previous post told me to prove he was racist. I'm just trying to get the point accross that him freeing the slaves was itself hypocritical, seeing as he didn't actually want them to have rights or be equal. He just saw it as a military tactic to weaken the south.

Originally posted by Nosred
reply to post by centurion1211

 

I wasn't trying to use todays morals someone in a previous post told me to prove he was racist. I'm just trying to get the point accross that him freeing the slaves was itself hypocritical, seeing as he didn't actually want them to have rights or be equal. He just saw it as a military tactic to weaken the south.

You still haven't proven that. You cannot apply today's standard to that periods vocabulary. I think that is now 4 attempts to request

A. Proof he was a racist.

and

B. Link to your source.

Originally posted by Nosred
reply to post by centurion1211

 

I wasn't trying to use todays morals someone in a previous post told me to prove he was racist. I'm just trying to get the point accross that him freeing the slaves was itself hypocritical, seeing as he didn't actually want them to have rights or be equal. He just saw it as a military tactic to weaken the south.

Oh, but you are.

And do you really think almost 150 years after the fact that today's blacks - or anyone else - cares what the reason the slaves are free today is as long as they ARE free?

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


I don't have a link, I got it from a book. Just copy and paste it into a search engine though and you'll find it.

reply to post by centurion1211


Again I know they don't care how it happened. I'm just trying to show that the primary cause of the civil war wasn't slavery and that Lincoln wasn't really the glorified freerer of slaves the mainstream makes him out to be.

I also already knew about what you pointed out in the timeline. The South was only defending against what they thought was an attack and had good reason to expect an attack. The North on the other hand invaded it's own country, killed innocent civilians, and burned civilians homes and farms for no real reason. Which one do you think is worse?

I THINK nosred is suggesting that Lincoln did a number of things that were unconstitutional.

We all know that the first shots fired were actually fired on January 8, 1861 at Fort Pickens, near Pensacola Florida, and only later were shots fired on Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor, a more strenuous attack by artillery. Oh yes, the Southern troops fired on Northern troops in these forts.

Of course at the time, it was because the Southern states had legally seceded from the Union.

Lincoln and the leftover Congress immediately began all sorts of illegal actions against the Southern states that seceded. It can be argued that legally and technically, many of the Amendments passed immediately upon commencement of the war, and shortly after the war, were in fact, unconstitutional.

It can be argued that legally, and Constitutionally, Lincoln assumed dictatorial powers for the duration of the war, which were only terminated upon his death.

It can also be argued that legally and Constitutionally, the post Lincoln actions by the Federal government against the Southern states and their citizens were unconstitutional.

Lincoln certainly overstepped his legally authorized boundaries in pursuit of the war. Congress had not been officially adjourned, and no quorum existed for passage of many of the activities, laws, and amendments passed.

I grew up thinking Lincoln was a great President.

Until I got to looking into what he did and what he really believed.

Preserve the Union?

At what cost?

Much of the social, financial, economic, and Constitutional problems that are dragging this country down today can be traced back to his feet.

The greatest war criminal?

Nah.

A man with a mission? Yes.

Constitutional? No.

reply to post by Nosred

Lincoln was a self proclaimed racist who didn't believe in equal rights. He didn't want to free slaves out of the kindness of his heart, he viewed it as a war tactic.

You aren't the first to accuse Lincoln of being a racist although you haven't proven that he was.

It is interesting that:"the 44th president, Barack Obama, who launched his presidential campaign in Lincoln’s hometown, Springfield, Ill., cited Lincoln’s oratory repeatedly throughout his campaign, retraced his train route to Washington from Philadelphia and even used Lincoln’s Bible for his swearing-in ceremony!"

Apparently Barack didn't consider Lincoln to be a racist!

And in 1860 he was probably more "pro negro" as they said back then than most Americans!

reply to post by Nosred


Did you mean this quote

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."

Abraham Lincoln
Source: September 18, 1858 - Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas
at Charleston, Illinois

Source

That sounds pretty racist and hateful to me. Our anestors were pieces of work. Yikes!

[edit on 13-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]

[edit on 13-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]

reply to post by Nosred



Let's ask Fredrick Douglas what he thought about Lincoln.
.

In all my interviews with Mr. Lincoln I was impressed with his entire freedom from popular prejudice against the colored race. He was the first great man that I talked with in the United States freely, who in no single instance reminded me of the difference between himself and myself, of the difference of color, and I thought that all the more remarkable because he came from a State where there were black laws...

- Frederick Douglass, abolitionist.

www.lincolncottage.org...

reply to post by plumranch


Saying blacks are inferior to whites isn't racist? But anyways whether Lincoln was racist or not isn't really the point, I just wanted to show how freeing slaves didn't play as big a part in the civil war as most people think.

reply to post by StinkyFeet


Yeah, that's the quote.

I'm related to Abe Lincoln, six generations back. I suppose you could try me for his "crimes".

I'd go into the history, and thinking of the day, but the OP seems to have his/her mind made up already.

Speaking of quotes, here's a few others...
Lincoln Quotes

On a lighter note... I dated a girl who's last name was Booth for 2 years. I never felt the need to sleep with one eye open, and we're still good friends.



Peace


Edit to add... Did he do things he shouldn't have?

Absolutely.. Pfft, what politician hasn't?

America's greatest War criminal? Not a chance.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by lernmore]

Lincoln is overrated, he's something of a folk hero like Columbus, not as overrated as Columbus but still a hero more for being an expander of Manifest Destiny than for being a humanitarian.