Abraham Lincoln = America's greatest war criminal!, page 5

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 10:40 AM

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reply to post by Nosred

I wouldn't bother trying to get people to understand what your saying, They have been brainwashed by the government so much that they believe the lies.

Ophiuchus 13

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 10:50 AM

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All I can say is this is a SHADY view of LINCOLN. Yeah he didnt like slaves and felt as if they were SUBHUMANS point taken. But to say he is a war criminal then you are basically saying that my past loved 1z shouldnt of been freed, interesting you feel this way and I see many agree with you for all the stars and flags, also interesting. You have a strange racially motivated outlook on life and I hope for your sake not mine that you dont EVER HAVE TO WITNESS THE IGNORANCE THAT GOES WITH SLAVERY:
YOUR MOM AND SISTERS BEING RAPED AND USED AS SEX SLAVES BY PEOPLE WHO SUPPOSEDLY HATE THEM, BUT LOVE SEXEN THEM EVEN MAKING HALF AND HALF OFFSPRING AND NOT ACKNOWLEDGE HOW THAT BABY BECAME SO LIGHT SKINNED master TRUE SUBHUMAN behavior.
YOUR BROTHERS AND FATHERS BEING USED AS FIELD TOOLS AND SEX SLAVES, YES THAT ALSO.
YOUR BABIES BEING BORN INTO *HELLISH CONDITIONS LIKE THE GREAT 1 JESUS CHRIST and being looked @ as nothing more then field tools - ONLY IF YOU COULD SEE THE KARMA BEING GENERATED FOR TODAY.....SMH you would iimmediately humble your living soul-.
YOUR FAMILIES BEING FED THE LEFTOVER ANIMAL PARTS (innerds) ONLY GIVEN TO YOU SO YOU CAN WORK HARD for a master.
YOUR RACE BEING INTENTIONALLY LEFT BEHIND EDUCATION/TECHNOLOGY WISE JUST SO YOUR RACE/SPECIES CAN GET AHEAD IN THE FUTURE.
And my favorite YOU BEING STRIPPED FROM YOUR HOMELAND AND FORCED TO REGATHER WITH YOUR FAMILY IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT LIVING ENVIRONMENT WITH CREATURES ACTING AS YOUR *GODZ* OH THE IRONY mass EXODUS from what? E.L.E. better wake up. The lord is not of your color or mine so to think he favors slavery in any way you basically are REGISTERING YOUR BLOODLINE IN *HELL for later.
Op you are free willed so think and behave as you may you will see eventually why your train of thought is bad for it ATTRACTS MEGA NEGATIVE KARMA THANK GOD FOR KARMA and have a nice life EXISTING IN THIS DARKENED REALM as you do not seem to seek the TRUE LIGHT ONLY WHAT MAKES YOUR BLOODLINE COMFY....
SMH (racisim was created to destroy the minds of many and weaken bloodlins for millenia and it has CAUSED MANY heart attacks abroad in all RACES-its a demon tool you use then the demon you face when you expire-)
Mods, I have created this post out of compassion for all of mankind and hope you do not mark it in any way, in no way have I singled out any poster but my points being made may save some who dont even know they need saved.

[edit on 10/14/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

muzzleflash

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:02 AM

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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

Your wrong though. Perhaps you should read some books at the library before you go all CAPS on us.

I mean geez were human beings too. Why you gotta CAP us like that?

Lincoln did not free the slaves. Hell there is STILL a slave trade today.

1) Chain gangs - look it up.
2) Crow Laws
3) Segregation
4) Upper class vs Lower class
5) Does the law protect You, or the Corporations?

I could go on.

As far as I am concerned, most of us are slaves right now. We have just been lied to so much we hardly notice it anymore.

westparker

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:17 AM

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reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Thanks for the links. I have read some of Vonnegut but missed this one. We are all part of the science project called "The Dumbing Down of America.

I also think that Lincoln deserves the ire thrown at him but he did have a rough row to hoe.

Westparker

Ophiuchus 13

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:19 AM

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Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

Your wrong though. Perhaps you should read some books at the library before you go all CAPS on us.

I mean geez were human beings too. Why you gotta CAP us like that?

Lincoln did not free the slaves. Hell there is STILL a slave trade today.

1) Chain gangs - look it up.
2) Crow Laws
3) Segregation
4) Upper class vs Lower class
5) Does the law protect You, or the Corporations?
I could go on.

As far as I am concerned, most of us are slaves right now. We have just been lied to so much we hardly notice it anymore.

you may feel as you wish but if the war didnt happened I would still be of SUBHUMAN NATURE TO YOU TODAY. So feel as you wish AND deny.

[edit on 10/14/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

daddio

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:38 AM

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Originally posted by hadriana
Sherman was a war criminal and a half.
He plotted his crimes with Lincoln.

I can understand how easy it is to glorify them in the name of getting rid of slavery, but what did they really do? They freed the slaves and then the slaves had no place to go except for follow them - and they let them starve or just flat out killed them when and if they thought they were competition for feeding the union troops. Bleh.

Lincoln didn't free anybody, he enslaved us all. The original 13th amendment would have kept us free, but he put in the slavery one to take out the original.

Look here;

www.amendment-13.org...

I am not sure what you people don't get. Albert Pike was also one of the most henious criminals in the mid 1800's and the Civil war.

www.libertyforlife.com...

Even though Pike was a confederate general who committed the most heinous atrocities of the war his tomb is located just 13 blocks from the Capitol Building. He was a high ranking member of the Illuminati who is still revered by the New World Order Gang. The god of the Illuminati and the New World Order Gang is Lucifer. "The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. . . Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay (Jesus) is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. . ."The doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophic religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay (Jesus); but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of darkness and evil." A.C. De La Rive, La Femme et l'enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerie Universelle, p. 588; Lady Queenborough, Occult Theocracy pp. 220-221.

Money The Root Of All Evil
Abraham Lincoln refused to pay the banksters 37% interest on money they wanted to lend the US to pay for the Un-Civil War. Lincoln decided to copy the banksters fraud and printed the Greenback's, in doing so he wrote that he "gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they have ever had - their own paper money to pay their own debts". Lincoln also said: "I have two great enemies, the southern army in front of me and the financial institutions in the rear. Of the two, the one in the rear is the greatest enemy.". The banksters shot Lincoln and converted his Greenbacks into their own fiat-money debt. From that point on the USA was handed into the hands of the international banksters.

www.libertyforlife.com...

Above is the link to information on Lincolns War and why. Nuf Said.

If you read the Constitution also, you will see that there was already a call to end slavery in it.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by daddio]

TheRedneck

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:42 AM

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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I'd like to weigh in on this topic. The following is not gleaned from any website or book, but from information passed down from generation to generation. I do live (born and raised) in Alabama, after all, the heart of the Confederation. This is a subject near and dear to my heart.

The Civil War was not about slavery as much as it was about ideology and money. At that point in American history, there were vast changes happening. We as a nation had become prosperous and strong, already a world leader of sorts, and it was due to the combined contributions of the Northern and Southern states. Being so large geographically, and being well-populated across the geography (for the time), we had benefits that other countries did not have.

The northern states were moving heavily into industry. Slavery was becoming more of a luxury than an economic necessity, since machinery was replacing the need for human labor. Factories were being constructed at a rapid rate to produce goods for the populous. What slaves were left in the North prior to the abolition of slavery were for the most part little more than lower-paid factory labor. The result of abolishing slavery, in economic terms, was a little more investment in labor.

The southern states were still largely agricultural, since the South had more open land and a much longer growing season. Farms had expanded into massive plantations, which required vast amounts of human labor to operate. There were no tractors or other present-day machinery to till the soil; the plowing, cultivating, and harvesting were all done by hand, every one of these being an extremely labor-intensive operation.

Small farms did still exist, without slavery to help operate them, but these were little more than what we today would think of as mini-farms or huge gardens. They allowed some farmers to eke out a sparse living. The real power and wealth was concentrated in the plantation owners.

At the time, slavery was indeed a major issue confronting the United States. The northern states were in favor of abolishing slavery, while the southern states were not. Obviously, this would be the case since the action would not harm the northern industries much, but would be devastating to the southern plantations. I really and truly believe that the vast majority of people in both regions were coming to realize that slavery was wrong and should be abolished; the difference was that for the South, it would destroy their entire economy.

Overshadowing this one issue, however, were many issues that placed the South in even more economic peril. About that time, the Federal government tried to pass a land tax based only on acreage. Obviously, this did not sit well with the plantation owners since their thousands of acres were producing roughly what ten acres of northern factory would, and their taxes would be hundreds of times higher. Mention has already been made about tariffs placed on farm products. Slavery was this looming threat of even further financial devastation, backing up economic stresses that had been building for some time.

The decision to secede was based on all of these factors. It was indeed similar to the Revolutionary secession from England, except that at first it seemed that it would be far less bloody. The southern states seceded, declaring themselves independent of the United States, and reformed into the Confederacy. Once this happened, the land that had been used by the United States within the boundaries of the Confederacy became the property of the Confederacy. Fort Sumter, in the minds of the southerners, belonged to the Confederacy and the troops in it were an occupying army. The United States did not recognize the secession and therefore saw the troops as Federal soldiers doing their duty and the Confederate troops as a rogue militia.

Recipe for war. Just add bullets.

There was at the time a good deal of sympathy for the South in some areas of the North. Lincoln recognized this and turned every speech into a slavery issue, refusing to let anything overshadow slavery. This had the desired effect of solidifying support for the 'police action' taken against the South. So yes, the North was fighting for abolition of slavery, but at the same time, the South was fighting for their right to live free of the tyranny of the North. Many southern regiments were composed of slaves, not slaves forced into service, but those who had volunteered to fight.

Two groups, at odds with each other, both under false impressions of why they were fighting, and each fighting for a different cause. Many died in that war, enough to literally make creeks run red with blood. But that's what war is. The following is what war is not:

Thanks in no small part to the settlers in some of the more mountainous and remote areas, who were actually just continuing their fighting with authority in all forms, the South began achieving victories. This is what caused England and France to sit up and take notice; the English because there was still a cultural aversion to those upstart colonists who had seceded from them (and they saw this as some sort of poetic irony), and the French because of some political tensions that had come about from the country they helped seceded from England. Lincoln saw this, and together with the real war criminal, General William Tecumseh Sherman, as well as the commander of the Union army General Ulysses Simpson Grant, approved the plan proposed by General Sherman: cut the snake in half.

Leading a regiment of the worst scofflaws and cutthroats the Union could muster, many released from prison in exchange for their service, Sherman cut a swath of carnage through the South. He did not attack armies or militia; he attacked the civilian population. His band of thugs looted, pillaged, and burned everything they came across. Children from the age of infants to those just below the age where they could fight were killed in front of their mothers' eyes. Mother were raped while their children watched. Old men and women were butchered. Homes were burned, sometimes with the inhabitants boarded up inside while the 'soldiers' who torched them laughed. This carnage went across Tennessee, through Georgia, wiped clean the major city of Atlanta, leaving nothing but a scene worthy of the Biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Ashes, charred human remains, dead and wounded livestock, and dying civilians were all they left in their wake.

Sherman's plan worked; he made it to the Atlantic and cut in half the 'snake' that was the Confederacy. Supply lines were ruptured, and the battles began falling to the Union. It wasn't long before General Lee had no choice but to surrender to General Grant.

So in the eyes of my family, as in the eyes of many Southern families, General Sherman was the worst war criminal to have ever walked the planet. By association and conspiracy of and in his actions, President Lincoln and General Grant were also war criminals. In the eyes of others, mainly those form the Northern states, the three did what had to be done, and are even hailed as heroes. In one Ohio town, there is a huge sign as one enters it: Welcome to [...], proud home of General William Tecumseh Sherman. I know; I drove past it one time, mouth agape at the idea that anyone could be so proud to be the birthplace of such a man.

Before anyone asks, I have no links; I don't need any. The story posted is the result of tales of the old times passed down to me from my father, from his father to him, from his father to him, and so on. They are corroborated by personal research covering a span of decades into my family history, pages after pages of letters and official reports from a myriad of sources. They take into accounts reminders left from history such as the old plantation house not far from me which still shows musket scars in the aged brick surrounding it, and the records found left inside it generations after the siege it managed to endure.

No, not everything is online, just a mouse click away.

Some of it is real history, tales of what really happened and why those involved in it allowed it or made it happen. How they felt, and why they did what they did. That is real history, and it contains the lessons we must hear and learn from today, lest we (as the saying goes) be doomed to repeat their errors. These lessons are apt in today's world, so apt that I will not spell them out here. Simply look around you with your eyes open and you will see the same things happening.

Or feel free to not believe me. Neither decision will affect what really happened. We can re-write history, but we cannot change it.

TheRedneck

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

redoubt

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:55 AM

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reply to post by Nosred

Abraham Lincoln = America's greatest war criminal!

Lord help me, I have avoided this thread because being a Southerner, most anything I say will be used against me... whether or not I am actually married to my sister and have a still perched next to the slave cabins on the hill.

In truth, Lincoln was a nationalist and would have allowed slavery to go on IF it would have prevented the war. But since it didn't and in the summer of 1863, the boys in blue eeked out a victory at Gettysburg, the Emancipation Proclamation was released as a propaganda tool to build upon that victory.

Now, before I am fallen upon for such heretical truths, let's state for the record, that slavery was then, is now and will be forever wrong. Period, no buts. The South had a tiger not by the tail, but by the butt and there was no way that any nation could emerge into the next century with such a horrible burden.

That now being said and as a truth, we can move on.

In my personal opinion, William Tecumseh Sherman and Benjamin Butler were the two most then capable and today worthy of the tag of War Criminal.

Sherman slashed and burned his way across Georgia, leaving it unable to feed its people, including the former slaves. His troops raped and murdered and there are records to support this as many were taken to trial after the war. But nary a single one ever convicted in these FEDERAL trials.

Butler... Beast Butler? The folks of New Orleans called this dapper theif 'Spoons' for his apparent attraction to silverware.

No arguments after this... the South was foolish to take on the far heavier populated north where 70% of the nation's industry was also located. Slavery... was also an issue to the yankees but not the only one.

I am personally quite satisfied today that this nation's worst racists live in states well above the former line known as Mason-Dixon.

...

HothSnake

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:00 PM

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The Civil War was never about chattel slavery, as is commonly misunderstood, but was infact about another form of slavery. It effectively created the United States of serfdom that we have today, through economic tyranny of an all powerful central government, controlled by foreign powers.

You will not find a single statement from the Southern States saying that they were fighting for slavery. What you will find are several statements to the effect thtat they were fighting for their liberty and their States rights under the Bill of Rights to the Constitution. The North, through British agenteurs, had been encroaching upon the free will of the Southern States, through unfair taxation, etc. for many years prior to the Civil War, and this was the main reason that the South felt that it had to secede. Even Lincoln himself claimed that the conflict was never about slavery, but about the right of States to secede from the Union. It wasn't until more than half way through the war that it suddenly became all about slavery, but only after it became politically convenient for Lincoln to declare it as so.

“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw Light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe... corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed.” —Abraham Lincoln

"Resolved, That the maintenance inviolate of the rights of the States, and especially the right of each State to order and control its own domestic institutions according to its own judgment exclusively, is essential to that balance of power on which the perfection and endurance of our political fabric depend; and we denounce the lawless invasion by armed force of the soil of any State or Territory, no matter what pretext, as among the gravest of crimes."

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it. I cannot be ignorant of the fact that many worthy and patriotic citizens are desirous of having the national Constitution amended. While I make no recommendation of amendments, I fully recognize the rightful authority of the people over the whole subject to be exercised in either of the modes prescribed in the instrument itself; and I should, under existing circumstances, favor rather than oppose a fair opportunity being afforded the people to act upon it."-- Lincoln's First Inaugural

As Abraham Lincoln pointed out in his First Inaugural Address, the South had chosen their course without real provocation from the North, while ignoring any peaceful and constitutional options that they might have had. They were hell-bent on going to war, and that was that. Don't make the same mistake that the South did. Utilize the options set forth in our Constitution for amending it, and for petitioning our Federal Government for redress of grievances.

A Congressional study done in the 1970's found that we have, infact, been in a state of Martial Law since the Civil War, and this state has never been repealed. Lincoln attempted to seperate us from this state, by issueing our own money (greenbacks) and was against the reconstruction plans that were to be put in place by the agenteurs of England. He had to be eliminated in order for their plans to be implemented, and that is precisely what happened. After his death, we saw the Reconstruction Acts passed, and the creation of the 13th and 14th Amemdments, which changed us all from being "Citizens"of our respective states with rights under the Bill of Rights" to "citizens" of a Federal government, granted privileges with no rights at all. This paved the way for a new form of slavery, what used to be called serfdom. We became serfs of the Federal state with no rights, only the privilege of working for and paying taxes to our Federal Government. This was England's plan all along, which is why they fomented the Civil War in the first place.

"The death of Lincoln was a disaster for Christendom. There was no man in the United States great enough to wear his boots and the bankers went anew to grab the riches. I fear that foreign bankers with their craftiness and tortuous tricks will entirely control the exuberant riches of America and use it to systematically corrupt civilisation.They will not hesitate to plunge the whole Christendom into wars and chaos in order that the earth should become their inheritance."" -- Otto Von Bismarck

Lincoln proclaimed, "To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical . . . The government should create, issue and circulate all the money and currency, needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of the consumer. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of government, but it is the governments greatest opportunity . . . The people can and will be furnished with a currency as safe as their own government. Money will cease to be the master and become the servant of humanity . . . We gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they ever had - their own paper money to pay their own debts . . . Democracy will rise superior to the money power."

HothSnake

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:01 PM

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The MONEY-CHANGERS realized the loss they would incur if, their paper-money was replaced with "government paper-money". As a result, this is what they had to say about President Lincoln's issuance of a national paper currency, sometimes referred to as "Greenbacks." "If that mischievous financial policy, which had its origins in the North America Republic during the late war [Civil War] in that country, should become indurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own paper money without cost. It will have ALL the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the civilized governments of the world. That government must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe." (London Times 1863)

muzzleflash

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:22 PM

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Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

you may feel as you wish but if the war didnt happened I would still be of SUBHUMAN NATURE TO YOU TODAY. So feel as you wish AND deny.

[edit on 10/14/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

What do you mean "To YOU"?

You mean you think im white simply because I studied a tiny bit of history?

Talk about making huge assumptions.

What if I am black ?

Sorry for getting slightly off topic, but I find this simply astounding. That my position on a argument of history , determines my skin color??

Boom Slice

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 01:29 PM

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The prison conditions were also some of the worse in any of our wars:

news.nationalgeographic.com...

An estimated 56,000 died painful, miserable, slow deaths in these prison camps. That is unjustifiable in any era of humanity.

The conditions were miserable on both sides, and they were downright criminal in certain camps.

I saw a special on one of these camps, Andersonville, on History a while back, and the conditions there were maybe the worst in any prison camp during the war. About 12,000 Union troops died there alone. That was about 1 out of every 4 Union prisioners it held.

en.wikipedia.org...

I think that this just goes to show that there were war ciminals on both sides and that neither side is immune from blame. That being said, I agree that Lincoln was not the President we learned about in school...

Darth Lumina

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:09 PM

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post by Ophiuchus 13

Actually it would have ended without the war. It would have happened maybe a decade later, but it would have happened. As was mentioned by other posters, ending slavery affected the economy of the south, which it did. Once industrialization would have made it's way south like it did in the north, logically that would have been the end of slavery. You have to understand that slavery is something that has been around since the organization of communities. It began thousands of years ago and all races have been affected by it. The United States during this time period was facing the end of the slave trade as it was commonly done legally. It is hard for change, but it was something that was going to happen with or without a war. Slavery still exists today and if you think about it, the common people of any country are slaves, but in a different way. Different form of brainwashing us into thinking we are free, that we own the property we have purchased, that the money we worked hard for is ours, but when you look at the big picture, it really isn't. It's time for history to be learned for it's lessons, not it's rewrites.

Blaine91555

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:30 PM

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reply to post by Nosred

I can't read any more!

This is the most classic case of manipulating the evidence to fit the theory I've ever seen. You can't possibly have had any History courses on this topic or you failed the course.

This is doubly bad as there are people from other countries reading your propaganda. Lets hope they care enough to read some history books.

Ophiuchus 13

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:35 PM

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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13

you may feel as you wish but if the war didnt happened I would still be of SUBHUMAN NATURE TO YOU TODAY. So feel as you wish AND deny.

[edit on 10/14/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

What do you mean "To YOU"?

You mean you think im white simply because I studied a tiny bit of history?

Talk about making huge assumptions.

What if I am black ?

Sorry for getting slightly off topic, but I find this simply astounding. That my position on a argument of history , determines my skin color??

First your skin color has nothing to do with my post as, I am intelligent enough to know if you are not color blind then you lost ALREADY.
Second you seemed to be uncomfortable with the topic @ hand and I only stated that if the WAR didnt happened I personally would still be CONSIDERED A SUB HUMAN TO ALL WHO WERE NOT, EVEN THE FOLX UP NORTH WHO WERE FREED so dont take it personal. TRUST ME RACISIM IS NOT MY FIELD OF PLAY SOUL TAGGEN IS.

[edit on 10/14/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

shokk

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:37 PM

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Read his 2nd inaugural speech,
I think it will put the civil war in a strange perspective.

He basically says the civil war is divine retribution for slavery.

HothSnake

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 03:03 PM

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Another interesting quote attributed to Otto Von Bismarck tells it all...

"The division of the United States into federations of equal force was decided long before the Civil War by the high financial powers of Europe. These bankers were afraid that the US, if they remained as one block, and as one nation, would attain economic and financial independence, which would upset their financial domination over the world." Otto von Bismark chancellor of Germany

fraterormus

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 03:16 PM

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The whole issue of the Civil War and what it was about is not so cut and dried.

Take Robert E. Lee for instance. He morally sided with the Union cause, believed in Abolition of Slavery, yet chose to lead the Confederates against the Union, even despite being personally offered by Lincoln to lead the Union army. History books (and Wikipedia) say that he did such out of loyalty to his home State, but it goes much deeper than that. Being the great strategist that he was, he knew that in War no side wins but Death. There is only loss of life on both sides. To ensure that Abolition would come about, and that the Union would win, with the least amount of bloodshed possible, he chose to lead the Confederate Army in war. Doing such allowed him to pick and choose battlefields, utilize tactics that would result in the least loss of life, and keep the Confederates from choosing another General who would be as bloodthirsty as Grant was for the Union.

History has portrayed Lee as a failed strategist and tactician on the battlefield, when in reality, he was a greater strategist and tactician than most would give him credit for.

Most of all, it proves that nothing in the Civil War was Black and White (or Blue and Grey). It was a very complex time, with a lot of extenuating circumstances. No person involved on either side of the Civil War can be easily pigeon-holed to one of two simple categories.

However, it is also true that Slavery was already on the way out of the time of Secession of the Confederate States. I forget the exact title of the book, but there was a book published two years prior to the Civil War by a Southern Landowner titled something like "The Economics of Slavery". It came to the conclusion that Slavery was too costly to the Landowner, as the Landowner had to provide food, shelter, and care for Slaves at their own expense. The book proposed freeing Slaves, for economic reasons, and providing them a Wage, allowing freed Slaves to be responsible for their own food, shelter and care, rather than the Landowner. This book is the basis of our modern Economic principles of Wage-Slavery.

In a way, you could say that the post-War Abolition Era did make Slaves equal with Free Men, as both were enslaved by economics of working for a Wage from Landowners. There is no distinction of color or creed between the Working Poverty who are free in name only while ruled and controlled by the Wealthy Landowners.

Was Lincoln a War Criminal though? War makes criminals of everyone involved, from the soldier on the front-lines, to the General commanding them, to the President who orders the General. I earnestly don't think that Lincoln ever wanted a War, but was acting in Federalist interests to keep a unified Nation. Any POTUS since Lincoln would do the same, by sending in Federal Troops if ever a State other than Texas were to secede from the Union (since Texas joined the Union as a autonomous sovereign nation, they reserved the right to secession upon joining the United States). Sure, it is a Self-Protectionist act of Government, but it is unfair to single Lincoln out for making that decision that no other POTUS has had to face.

daddio

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 04:00 PM

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reply to post by HothSnake

Correct on the money issue.

The real reason for Lincoln's War, as is clearly indicated in Lincoln's Inaugural Address on Monday, March 4, 1861 was "to collect the duties and imposts" as Lincoln himself threatened "but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion". It is blatantly clear from Lincoln's speech that he was not opposed to slavery, but that he considered the imposition of slavery a "good" and "unanimous oath".

The House of Representatives passed the Morrill Tariff in the 1859-1860 session, and the Senate passed it on March 2, 1861, two days before Lincoln’s inauguration. President James Buchanan signed it into law. The bill immediately raised the average tariff rate from around 15% to 37.5% and added significantly more items to the tax list. Shortly thereafter, a second tariff increase pushed the average tax rate to 47.06%. Consider this tax rate to what the founding fathers objected to a the Boston Tea Party, a 2% tax that was raised to 5%. No wonder the South Seceded.
Lincoln ignored the advice of Congress and his own generals and instead chose to invade the newly formed Nation to his south causing one of the bloodiest wars ever fought on this continent and the deaths of more citizens than those killed in all the wars combined up to 2000. However, the cost of Lincoln's war incurred a debt that sank the Nation into the hands and control of international bankers, something this Nation has never recovered from. Our freedom was truly lost when Lincoln implemented what today is know as the IRS.

No wonder the Federal government loves Lincoln and promotes the misconception of "honest Abe". It was Lincoln who forced large central government and taxation upon us. Perhaps he was the worst president, although Wilson, FDR and Bush certainly give him a run for the bankers money. Money after all was most probably why Lincoln was shot, the war was over, however, the bankers did not approve of Lincoln's greenbacks, instead, they wanted to lend paper money to the U.S. and charge us interest for it. After they got rid of Lincoln, like all the other Presidents who opposed a privately held Federal Reserve Bank, his face too was put on the bankers note. How ironic.

We all need to wake up. Some of us have slowly but more need to. If we were all to say NO to the Federal Government, which we CAN DO, they could do nothing but start another war. There are many people like Ron Paul, Sheriff Richard Mack and others who are trying to get the sheeple woken, but it is hard when others in the MSM keep YOU "tuned in" to their garbage. I gave up television months ago and have never looked back. I gather info from books written by authors I investigate. I see what their affiliations are and the reason they wrote the book in the first place.

I belong to several patriotic sites and read their info and use common sense, see where it came from and where it is going. Many people are now joining watchdog groups and heading out int he streets to educate and protest peacefully.

We all need to do something instead of sit here and post, I have done alot, I am currently working on reclaiming my "strawman" and getting out of the corporate NAME they put me in and you too.

Let's go, end the strawman crap, we are human beings not a "person" and/or "individual" as described by "law", but a natural born entity, SOVEREIGN.

Enigma Cypher

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 05:12 PM

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Originally posted by Relentless.D
You should thank Mr. Lincoln because if he didn't do exactly what he did YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN BORN.

Just my 10 cents.

That really is neither here nor there.