DHS strips Arizona sheriff of authority to patrol for illegal immigrants, page 9

reply to post by Muundoggie

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You've completely missed the point. What the sheriff is doing is illegal. It doesn't matter whether he's trying to prevent Mexicans from taking over the country. It doesn't matter that he's got a good reason for breaking the law. The sheriff is breaking the law that he has sworn to uphold.

If you don't like the Fourth Amendment, maybe you'll start a movement to abolish it. That would make it legal for the sheriff to stop any old Mexican he sees and search him. Of course, that would make it legal for any law enforcement officer to stop any US citizen and search him, regardless of whether there was any probable cause for the search. Are you sure you want that?

The sheriff has no authority to stop people without probable cause, in order to determine whether they are US citizens. That is illegal. Even the police are supposed to obey the law.

You can't make the US a better place by violating its laws. If the laws are bad, change them. However, if you consider the matter carefully, our Fourth Amendment is a protection most of us wouldn't want to abandon.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

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It's not profiling if you are doing it to every single person. The police don't have the manpower to check every single person, but individual employers do. When a person is hired (no matter for what job or position) they are checked through E Verify. If they are legally allowed to work in the US they get a job, if they aren't, then they don't get a job.

The police then can go to employers and check records and see if any of the employees are undocumented. If they are, fine the employer.

So . . . they will check every person at the day labor areas



No racial profiling, but following the evidence

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

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like I said, the police don't have the manpower to check every person. They would have to station a cop at the entrance. And how would that look? People have a 4th amendment right to be secure in their personal papers and effects from unreasonable searches. That would violate that right.

But an employer can do it for employment purposes. A cop can't.

Originally posted by chiron613
reply to post by Muundoggie

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You've completely missed the point. What the sheriff is doing is illegal.

. . .

Really?

What law?

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

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like I said, the police don't have the manpower to check every person. They would have to station a cop at the entrance. And how would that look? People have a 4th amendment right to be secure in their personal papers and effects from unreasonable searches. That would violate that right.

But an employer can do it for employment purposes. A cop can't.

So then if a man robs you at gun point and takes off in a red pick up truck, you do not want the police to look for any red trucks, because they do not have enough manpower, and it would violate the 4th amendment?

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

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That's being ridiculous. Your being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

What you are saying is that all red trucks must be armed robbers. So every red truck has to be stopped and the occupant searched. Other than being in a red truck the occupant has no other similarity to the armed robber.

Thankfully we in this country have the 4th amendment right protecting us from unreasonable searches. Apparently you don't want this right. In fact you seem to believe that because of a minority of people that you want to persecute, every other citizen in the country has to loose their constitutionally protected right guarding against unreasonable searches.

The employers have the right to require proof that a person has the right to work in this country. But the police don't have the right to just stop every Latin person on the basis that they might be an illegal alien. It's racial profiling.

In order for the police to avoid racial profiling charges they would have to search absolutely everyone. They don't have the authority to do this thanks to the 4th amendment to the US constitution.

Sheriff Joe is blatantly being racist.

reply to post by whatukno

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There's nothing unreasonable about asking someone to provide an identification card after being pulled over for breaking a law.

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by whatukno

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There's nothing unreasonable about asking someone to provide an identification card after being pulled over for breaking a law.

I am just curious if you have ever read the constitution or taken a history class of any kind? There is a reason our country has decided to make it illegal to just stop people and ask them to prove who they are.

reply to post by stevegmu

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But there is something illegal about asking someone for ID if they aren't breaking any laws. If you weren't doing anything illegal why would the police need to check your ID?

reply to post by Lillydale

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Yes, actually. I have a Masters in History and have studied law. Constitutional Law and Clvil Rights & Civil Liberties were my favorite two classes.

Arresting suspected illegal aliens is not against the Constitution.

reply to post by whatukno

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A traffic stop is conducted, and if the deputies suspect they are illegal and can not prove otherwise, they are arrested.

reply to post by stevegmu

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So let's see, you want to round people up and incarcerate them. Based on what initial evidence? Will it be completely random? What criteria do you go on to select the people you are going to arrest? What non race based evidence do you go on to require ID from someone on the suspicion of being in the US illegally?

A traffic stop based on what?

[edit on 10/8/2009 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno

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They aren't just pulled over because they are brown-

Even as he considered whether to sign the deal, Arpaio launched a three-day immigration sweep east of metro Phoenix on July 24. Deputies arrested 74 people; 25 of them were illegal immigrants.
Ten of the illegal immigrants were released because they had committed no other crimes, and that fact pitted Arpaio against Homeland Security. Arpaio says the feds told his deputies to let them go, while Homeland Security says the decision was exclusively Arpaio's.
That sweep was the latest of 10 Arpaio has conducted in the last two and a half years. Many were held in heavily Latino areas in metropolitan Phoenix, with deputies stopping drivers for traffic violations.
The sweeps sparked several angry protests from critics who said they amounted to racial profiling and led to a Justice Department investigation of Arpaio. Arpaio said the people who were pulled over were approached because deputies had probable cause to believe they had committed crimes.


Read more at: www.huffingtonpost.com...

link

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by whatukno

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They aren't just pulled over because they are brown-

Ten of the illegal immigrants were released because they had committed no other crimes, and that fact pitted Arpaio against Homeland Security.

reading is fun.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by Lillydale]

reply to post by stevegmu

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So let's see, he is patrolling these sweeps in Latino communities, 49 out of the 75 people he had arrested were not illegal aliens, and committed no crime. Hmm. No that's not racial profiling. Not at all.

This isn't Nazi Germany, this is America. Our law enforcement officers should not be out there becoming vigilantes.

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by whatukno

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A traffic stop is conducted, and if the deputies suspect they are illegal and can not prove otherwise, they are arrested.

I think you need to go back an study law some more. The cops pull you over and accuse you of a crime and as long as they themselves can NOT prove you are NOT guilty, they can take you in????????

Where did you study law?

reply to post by jam321

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So you've been at every stop ever made by him/them? I'm assuming you have video footage to backup he only stops mexicans and not white or black people.

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