DHS strips Arizona sheriff of authority to patrol for illegal immigrants

reply to post by Marked One


No I do not want psychic law enforcement.... I could not even imagine

I just don't want people taking matters into their own hands when they should not or are not in the right. All people have rights within America that is why Guantanamo is turning out to be such a sticky situation. All people are protected by our constitution, else we could go around killing illegal immigrants whenever people felt the need.

I was not pointing fingers nor do I need to do more research, that is how I was taught the constitution was interpreted, and that is what I am basing my beliefs around.

And us liberals did let you put your wall up, Google some pictures, it is getting more use as a volley ball net than a separator of nations.

reply to post by Lillydale


We've had several people who actually live in the Phoenix area describe going through these "immigration check points" and so far every single one of them not only had no problem with the cops, they support the continued use of them.

I don't expect NY liberals to understand this but Sheriffs are local law enforcement. They serve at the pleasure of the local populace who elects them. As long as Sheriff Joe's constituents support his immigration enforcement methods he has a state law which allows him to continue doing it.

As for threats to society, "down here" we've had a huge problem with illegal aliens who commit the worst of crimes and are turned loose by ICE instead of being deported. This includes murderers, rapists and even the poor, downtrodden immigrant I posted about earlier who raped and sodomized a 7 year old and infected her with syphilis.

ICE turning felons loose to commit more crimes

This isn't some small issue, it's happening so often I can't even believe it. Sneak into the US, rape or kill someone and not only do you not go to prison, you don't even get deported. No wonder so many criminals want to live here.

Just like the other 99% complaining about Sheriff Joe's immigration enforcement you don't live there. When I travel to NYC for work, which I've done quite often - I recognize the amount of security checks I have to go through as a necessary evil. I respect what the locals have to deal with and what they've gone through. Oddly enough, those of us living on the front lines of the immigration issue can't expect the same courtesy,
apparently.

I'm happy to see a Sheriff telling the DHS to go to hell. Hopefully my local Sheriff will grow as big a set and start doing the same. As for the people in NY and California who don't like it, oh well. That's why Sheriffs answer to local populations. If the locals in Maricopa County don't like what he's doing they can vote him out of office.

reply to post by ecoparity


Like I already said - good! I am so glad that you like living in a controlled society. I live in the United States of America and I enjoy the freedoms guaranteed by the constitution. You all do not like that, then great. While felons move in to rape and murder your loved ones, I will be happy knowing you are happy that they were not Mexican when they did it.

reply to post by Lillydale


I've been tolerant of your illogical conclusions but ...

Please provide some proof that Sheriff Joe's immigration enforcement correlates to rapists and murderers being more prevalent or active here in Texas. Hell, I'll take proof they're more prevalent or active in Phoenix since the immigration sweeps began.

Given the huge number of violent criminals among the illegal alien population the contradiction in your statement is obvious. Where I live the criminal one faces is more than 50% more likely to be an illegal alien.

I'd take a 50% reduction in violent felons no matter what country they originate from. It's a lot better than nothing.

The only possible argument is that somehow resources would be taken away from other police duties (which no one has proven so far) and even then the effect would be local to Maricopa County which is quite a ways away from Texas.

reply to post by ecoparity


It has already been stated that more felons are flocking to the area because they know that they will not be bothered as long as they are not Mexican looking. If they can only arrest 10% of the people stopped then how is it not a waste of resources to take them off looking for American felons to get and illegal alien arrest rate of 10%?

reply to post by Lillydale


Who made that one up? I can't find any statistical proof to back that, in fact everything I can find indicates violent crime has been declining in Maricopa County steadily.

Were you aware the Sheriff was motivated by the number of repeat offender illegal aliens coming back into the jail who had been released to ICE for deportation? Even when illegal alien felons were being arrested prior to the immigration sweeps the issue was ICE not doing its job.

The feds can't have it both ways. If they won't secure the borders and enforce immigration laws the states will. This is an unofficial policy of amnesty on the part of a federal government that knows the public won't support legislated amnesty.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


We're not talking about whether or not illegal immigrants should be held accountable for the crime of violating our borders though, we are talking about whether that should be accomplished by the proper authorities using legal methods and getting their funding for such activities through the proper channels, or whether any yahoo with a badge can enforce any law in the world by any means with any funds he can get his hands on regardless of the limits of his jurisdiction.

PS, I would like to take money from everyone else in this thread under the pretense that I will protect them, and instead use it to violate your rights to find out if you've committed any crimes (most people have at some point so I'm sure i'll get you) and when I've got you on something I want to bust you without regard for whether or not I have any jurisdiction to actually do so. Then, assuming my employees don't either torture you to death or commit some negligence that gets you killed (it's not exactly LIKELY but it has been known to happen) you'll probably go scott free and end up suing me successfully (that too has been known to happen, and as long as I keep surviving recall elections probably wont stop anytime soon).

Sincerely Yours,
Joe Arpaio (actually, some dude on the internet doing a spot-on impersonation thereof)

Originally posted by ecoparity

Were you aware the Sheriff was motivated by the number of repeat offender illegal aliens coming back into the jail who had been released to ICE for deportation? Even when illegal alien felons were being arrested prior to the immigration sweeps the issue was ICE not doing its job.

And how many of the people that Joe rounds up and puts in jail, end up coming back to that jail because they are still repeat offenders?

reply to post by Lillydale


Your falling into bad logic once again. The number of repeat offenders who are US citizens does not correlate. If the County was turning citizen felons over to the state and federal prisons and they in turn were immediately setting those prisoners free without completing their sentences the two groups would correlate.

You pro illegal immigration folks keep hammering away at the same points all of which are false.

1. Jurisdiction
The County had an agreement with DHS to perform enforcement. DHS now wants to modify that agreement (break the contract) because the new administration supports illegal immigration and is using policy in place of legislation. Should they try and legislate amnesty the democrats will pay for it in the next election so they're doing it "under the table".

Under Arizona state law the Sheriff still has the ability to detain and deport illegal aliens.

2. Resource allocation
The second falsehood is that resources are being taken away from crime enforcement to perform immigration enforcement. This is not true and is simply another "made up supposition" on your group's part.

3. Civil rights violations
The enforcement team is running checkpoints and stopping people regardless of race. You may not like it but it's a local issue. So long as the local populace supports the effort he can continue to do it. Anyone who feels they've had their rights violated can sue. If he's legally out of step any non immigrant criminals caught in the sweeps should be able to get out of their charges. The same change in policy which allows police in NYC to perform homeland security functions allows the Sheriff to perform random checks.

You must support ending the airport, train station and building security checks in NYC then, right?

Whatever needs to be done to take this man out of authority position at all. I find it incredibly ironic that people are accusing the feds of overstepping their authority when this guy is a one man example of this very thing. It's about MUCH more than immigration.

Ask the Phoenix New Times employees. Or how his critics seem to get arrested and harassed. Or why his town has FIFTY times the lawsuits against him as the total of Los Angeles, New York, Houston and Chicago combined.

There's a difference between representing the law and thinking you ARE the law and this man crosses the line.

I'm a law-enforcement official myself. (Security Guard. Commissioned out of Texas.)

This is what I read in a firearm magazine that is marketed to law-enforcement personnel.

"If you're not getting complainst against you? You're not doing your job."

What this means is that naturally, 9 times out of 10, it's the guilty people with something to hide who are going to complain on law-enforcement.

So if Arpaio and his deputies are so tied up in litigation that their great grandchildren will be needing lawyers? It is because they're doing something right. And that is cleaning crime and illegal immigrants off the streets.

I've said it before and I will say it again; what Arpaio does needs to be done nationwide. And I would feel honored to be a part of said venture.

I live in Arizona. Sheriff Joe and his posse are going into normal establishments like the gestapo - - - profiling and raiding for illegal Mexicans.

It is affecting small businesses. Legal or not - - no person wants to be treated this way - and are avoiding businesses owned by those of Mexican heritage or those that have already been raided.

I've read several posts on ATS about being tagged by border checks. Those are posted and you know you will be driving through them.

What if they showed up at your personal residence and walked right in lining everyone up against the wall - giving them the third degree.

That is the equivalent of what Sheriff Joe is doing.

Originally posted by Annee
I live in Arizona. Sheriff Joe and his posse are going into normal establishments like the gestapo - - - profiling and raiding for illegal Mexicans.

It is affecting small businesses. Legal or not - - no person wants to be treated this way - and are avoiding businesses owned by those of Mexican heritage or those that have already been raided.

I've read several posts on ATS about being tagged by border checks. Those are posted and you know you will be driving through them.

What if they showed up at your personal residence and walked right in lining everyone up against the wall - giving them the third degree.

That is the equivalent of what Sheriff Joe is doing.

That's interesting, everyone else from Maricopa County who has posted supports the immigration enforcement.

You must be aware then, that if ICE was doing its job it would be ICE agents raiding businesses where people have called and reported seeing illegal aliens working, who have been raided before and found to be hiring
illegals or representing types of business which have used illegal alien labor in the past.

If it were ICE doing this would you object?

I hope they are targeting businesses which hire illegals and prosecuting them to the full extent of the law. Just one year of this type of enforcement and you'll see the number of illegal aliens in that region drop to zero.

Your comparison to having my home raided is completely invalid. Surely you must be aware that all it takes is for someone to call the police and claim there is illegal activity taking place in my home for the police to get a warrant to perform a search. The people of Maricopa County are calling and reporting illegal aliens left and right. You can complain about stereotyping but it really is that easy to spot them.

Businesses do not sponsor foreign nationals to work as waiters, busboys, cooks, landscapers, carpenters, plumbers and so on. The costs associated make even sponsoring a foreign national for skilled, college graduate level work expensive but at that level the cost savings are worth it.

You may be from Arizona but I doubt you live in Maricopa County. I spent a couple of years there and I can count on one hand the number of people who would argue in favor of the illegal aliens.

Originally posted by ecoparity

That's interesting, everyone else from Maricopa County who has posted supports the immigration enforcement.

LOL

Oh yeah! I'm an Arizona transplant from California. Of course I have lived here for 20 years.

I swear the "native" Arizonians live in a time warp. AZ - last state in the continental union - - they still think they are fighting for their independence.

Their mindset never surprises me.

YOU are CHOOSING to listen and focus on the Arizonians that lean your way.
----------------------------------

Where exactly did I argue in favor of illegals? You are reading into it what you want to.

It is not Sheriff Joe's job - - PERIOD! He is using vigilante tactics.




[edit on 11-10-2009 by Annee]

Originally posted by Annee
I live in Arizona. Sheriff Joe and his posse are going into normal establishments like the gestapo - - - profiling and raiding for illegal Mexicans.

Damn those Sheriffs for catching lawbreakers!

It is affecting small businesses. Legal or not - - no person wants to be treated this way - and are avoiding businesses owned by those of Mexican heritage or those that have already been raided.

Then those small businesses need to not cater to the illegal community . . . derr

I've read several posts on ATS about being tagged by border checks. Those are posted and you know you will be driving through them.

What if they showed up at your personal residence and walked right in lining everyone up against the wall - giving them the third degree.

That is the equivalent of what Sheriff Joe is doing.

No, he is searching for and catching law breakers.

reply to post by Annee


I could have guessed you were a Californian transplant. From your comments I can see you don't like the conservative bent of the native Arizonians. Than again, you probably know well how they feel about people from California.

Vigilantism is completely incorrect in this instance. I like how you keep ignoring the fact that DHS contracted the local Sheriff to take over immigration enforcement and that even with them trying to reverse that decision he still has state law giving him the ability to continue.

If the locals decided to start rounding up immigrants and drive them to the border that would be "vigilantism".

You didn't answer my question - if ICE resumed immigration enforcement and actually performed it's duties in place of the Sheriff would you be in support of them doing so?

reply to post by ecoparity


Actually eco you must not have read the full thread, I have seen 3 or 4 posts against it, including mine. who have been pulled over for looking Mexican (I am Italian and Irish) and told as much not to dress this way in this area if I do not want to be arrested. (I had a bandanna on).

Also Please I implore you look at what he does to actual Americans as well.

The new times called him on a few things.
blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...

And this was the result. Here in Phoenix was fairly mind blowing

www.azcentral.com...

Lets all at least be honest here. Its ok you can say it. Most people who are for this type of behavior against illegals, are ok with violating their rights in order to stop them. Now you can say WHAT RIGHTS? But.. its not the rights of the illegals that are getting stomped on, they are mine, a child of America, born in west point, father winner of the Silver star, buried in Arlington national. I am the most patriotic person you will meet. This is why this disgusts me and is a very slippery slope they are setting for our future.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by ShiftTrio]

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by Annee

 

I could have guessed you were a Californian transplant. From your comments I can see you don't like the conservative bent of the native Arizonians. Than again, you probably know well how they feel about people from California.

LOL

I put that California transplant in - just for you.

I had a service business for 15 years in Arizona. Came face to face with all the personalities of SW Arizona. Oh! There are some real characters.

Basically -- SEEK and YE SHALL FIND.

YOU sought out those Arizonans who think like you. And that's what you know.

reply to post by Annee


Keep ignoring the question. It says everything your posts try not to.

Originally posted by ShiftTrio

Lets all at least be honest here. Its ok you can say it. Most people who are for this type of behavior against illegals, are ok with violating their rights in order to stop them. Now you can say WHAT RIGHTS? But.. its not the rights of the illegals that are getting stomped on, they are mine, a child of America, born in west point, father winner of the Silver star, buried in Arlington national. I am the most patriotic person you will meet. This is why this disgusts me and is a very slippery slope they are setting for our future.

Thank You.

If one actually reads my post "word for word" - - - I have not said one thing against Sheriff Joe.

Vigilante tactics are unconstitutional - - - and over stepping your jurisdiction applies to anyone.

Environmentalists going on private land to stop trees from being cut down - - does not make it right - - even if you agree with it.