Highest Level, and Most Powerful Masons Revealed!

Again, thanks for those replies. I read Pike in spurts, which I'm sure is not the best way to get the most from his work, but I do find it fascinating and instructive. I look forward to reading some of the current authors you both mentioned.

cheers

Clearly some of you here are Masons. I am not and I regard any Masonry insitution as not in the interests of the wider public. I think it's fair to say that Masons promote each other in public life and are all about making connections to gain advantages others who might be more qualified don't have.

True? I'd also like to know why there are such negative symbols of freemansonry such as the skull and bones. Yes, you can dismiss it all as momento mori but the fact is the occult emphasises this kind of imagery for negative purposes.

A lot of the freemasonry imagery including that found in new monuments over the world would be right at home in Nazi Germany whose worst soldiers delighted in death imagery to signal to their numerous victims that they were into unspeakable evil.

Also - why the secrecy about the higher degrees? I have never read a freemason refute with any credibility that Freemasonry essentially pays homage to/worships Lucifer and other dark energies. It is essentially anti Christian which is why it does not want to advertise that fact I believe.

What do you have to tell me?

[edit on 3-10-2009 by dontbelievehype]

Originally posted by dontbelievehype
Clearly some of you here are Masons. I am not and I regard any Masonry insitution as not in the interests of the wider public.

Based on.....?

Originally posted by dontbelievehype
I think it's fair to say that Masons promote each other in public life and are all about making connections to gain advantages others who might be more qualified don't have.

Based on.....?

Originally posted by dontbelievehype
True?

You seem to think so. I have to assume that you've researched the subject to your own satisfaction haven't you? Otherwise, what's the point of an opinion? I mean your two points thus far are stripped straight from the pages of freemasonrywatch so why would a contrary opinion cause you to doubt it all of a sudden?

Originally posted by dontbelievehype
I'd also like to know why there are such negative symbols of freemansonry such as the skull and bones. Yes, you can dismiss it all as momento mori but the fact is the occult emphasises this kind of imagery for negative purposes.

You've answered your own question insofar as Freemasonry's imagery is concerned (and seem not to accept the stated reasons). Yet you seem to be taking Masons to task for not altering because some other "occult" group might be using the same or similar imagery "for negative purposes". Why is it up to Masons to adjust to suit your own misunderstanding and misconnection?

Originally posted by dontbelievehype
A lot of the freemasonry imagery including that found in new monuments over the world would be right at home in Nazi Germany whose worst soldiers delighted in death imagery to signal to their numerous victims that they were into unspeakable evil.

Care to cite instances and how they'd "be right at home in Nazi Germany" as opposed to right at home in Toledo? As for "death imagery", you think it was unique to German soldiers? Think again! There was nothing unique nor original about that and soldiers world-wide do the same.

Are we to extrapolate that you believe all soldiers are Nazis?

Originally posted by dontbelievehype
Also - why the secrecy about the higher degrees?

You confuse privacy with secrecy. Since you can Google ritual up and down the chain, how secret is that? Just don't expect me to confirm or deny for you. Others may have spilled their guts but that doesn't mean I have to. Test of character.

As for the "higher degrees" canard, that's been addressed repeatedly here in myriad threads. I'll just ask you which is higher: 33 inches or 3 feet? The 3rd degree in Craft Masonry is the highest, the degrees of the Scottish and York Rites are not superior to those in Craft Masonry.

But you won't believe me; it's just too much of a buzzkill to not believe the worst of something you clearly don't understand.

Originally posted by dontbelievehype
I have never read a freemason refute with any credibility that Freemasonry essentially pays homage to/worships Lucifer and other dark energies.

Use the search function here much? It's your friend. That bone's been gnawed to death repeatedly for years and the "Lucifer" business has been corrected as often. You not wanting to accept fact has nothing to do with that fact's veracity; that's just stubbornness or having an axe to grind at play.

Originally posted by dontbelievehype
It is essentially anti Christian which is why it does not want to advertise that fact I believe.

If you parse non-denominational as being anti-Christian, then that fact has been advertised to the high heavens. But how is it that church-going Christian Masons (counting clergy among their numbers) don't find the disconnect you want to? It couldn't possibly be that your 'facts' are sourced from someone's hindquarters and the ugly truth about Freemasonry is that it's a fraternity whose membership ranges among the world's religions who work together for the improvement of themselves as men and the betterment of society?

Nah! No fun there. Much better to sling conspiracy.

Originally posted by dontbelievehype
What do you have to tell me?

Probably nothing that's going to actually make a difference to your opinion. However, nobody can say I didn't try.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
...the highest ranking Mason in the world could be stripped of his Masonic membership by J. F. "Jeff" Webb, the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Louisiana at any time, for any reason, making that position (at the moment) the most powerful Mason in the world. (1 year, elected term, elected by the members of the lodges in Louisiana.)[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a97ce74865ec.jpg[/atsimg]

J. F. “Jeff” Webb, Grand Master of Louisiana

So now, if you REALLY want someone to blame, you have names & faces. No more speculation required.

[edit on 9/17/2009 by JoshNorton]

Highest ranking freemason in the world? Most powerful mason in the world? Or just in the U.S.?

What would this man have to say about that?
Or this man? (As of just last month I believe a new Grand Master has been elected though)

While I don't necessarily see the edifice of freemasonry as responsible for all the world's ills, it has always been used by subversive groups cloaking themselves inside masonry, "lodges within the lodge."
One prime example here of past malfeasance involving the Grand Orient of France back during the French Revolution (before the debunkers come out of the woodwork take time to read the document) is here:

Secret cell of Les Philadelphes

More recent abuses of, and by, masonry here:

Licio Gelli, The Last Supper, Vatican, Masons, P2, Mafia & the Murder of Roberto Calvi

Just Google Licio Gelli, P2, conspiracies, and never mind his deep and intimate connections to the intelligence services...

Also here:

Inside the Brotherhood

Google freema sonry and the moon program and the connections of the fraternity to the highest endeavours of mankind is clear. Any such network maintaining elite connections is a clear and present danger to the freedom of the common man. And don't mistake me for inherently anti-mason here, but it's obvious that masonry has always been a feeder group and network for dubious enterprise.
Refer to Cecil Rhodes, a prominent freemason (whilst apprently despising them) who knew that The Brotherhood was a required and necessary step in his plans, and who then later took the secret society hierarchy of the Bavarian Illuminati (the very same Illuminists that so succesfully infitrated freemasonry back in the 1700's) and applied it to his Rhodes Group, all detailed in Dr. Carroll Quigley's Tragedy and Hope and The Anglo-American Establishment.

The point being that masonry is, and always has been, very open to the gestation of conspiracies and agendas inimical to the common man. Not that I'll blanket charge the whole of freemasonry as evil, corrupt, and as an illigitimate association. Some balance is needed. I'm not going to jump in label all of it so.

I'm really gunning for the reptilians myself.....

reply to post by dontbelievehype


Why is a skull negative? It represents your own mortality. We all die one day. And as others have stated regarding higher degrees the master degree which is the third is really the highest. All masons are equal. All degrees above the 3rd are just "extra" degrees depending on which rite you go into. And as far as anti christian, I don't think so. Just about 90 percent of my lodge is christian, and they are strict christians.


[edit on 3-10-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Originally posted by Extant Taxon
Highest ranking freemason in the world? Most powerful mason in the world? Or just in the U.S.?

What would this man have to say about that?
Or this man? (As of just last month I believe a new Grand Master has been elected though)

Forgive me for only answering the on-topic portion of your post. Feel free to start a new thread if you want to get into some of your other points, and I'll happily respond there.

I would argue that Ronnie Seale commanding 500,000 Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction of the United States would wield more power than Pierre Lambicchi, who's Grand Master of a group of only 45,000 members. It probably wouldn't be fair to say having 10 times more members offers him 10 times more power, but even if the correlation isn't 1-to-1, it's not unreasonable to concede some greater "power". As to the Duke of Kent, I may be wrong on this, but I was under the impression that the Duke of Kent's position within Masonry was largely symbolic, and that the Pro Grand Master of UGLE does most of the day-to-day management. At the moment I'm unable to locate any estimated numbers for UGLE membership, so I can't say if it's greater or less than 500,000.

For now, I stand by my original post.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Fair enough answer. I'm interested to know just how many members UGLE has myself. As for the Duke's position being largely symbolic being largely symbolic I still feel that a fair amount of influence resides with him in official matters. I have memory of some interesting stories I will have to dig up on this point for a later post.

My other points may have seemed something of a digression but they were related to your inclusion of the Scottish Rite top dogs and that these were the people to look to for all those blaming what many masons regard as the specious concept of faceless "unknown superiors." However the unknown superiors may not just be a stubborn myth, especially in European lodges...
Instead of looking to your point (something of a red herring I think) I wanted to show how various agendas had been hatched through masonry, and by masons, at various points in history.

I still don't see that the rank and file of masonry as on the "Dark Side" and as "Sith Lords," so to speak, the real power resides in different areas, whilst still using masonry as network. Another reason I brought up the Grand Orient and then Licio Gelli, as corruption in European lodges especially seems to be endemic. Whilst such lodges may have lower membership they punch a long way above their weight compared to the Scottish Rite and it's thronging membership list.

One other thing to remember that 500,000 rank and file members are entirely negated by high level connections that top ranking freemasons may, and do, have. It's all about connections....
A Royal Grand Master, even largely symbolic, has some hefty connections to wield.
Yet another question to ask is what exactly is the position symbolic of, considering his Royal pedigree?

And isn't there strong evidence that Silvio Berlusconi was/is Propaganda Due? Yet another candidate for world's most powerful freemason perhaps? Whether you would want to argue that P2 was/is a "black" lodge disowned by the Grand Orient of Italy. Berlusconi being a multi-billionnaire media tycoon and Prime Minister of Italy.
His membership would never have come to light if not for official investigations into P2's misdeeds. How many more elite authority figures today are unrecognised as masons? And abuse that privilege?

Questions, questions....

[edit on 4/10/09 by Extant Taxon]

reply to post by dontbelievehype

Why don't you regard Masonry in the interests of the wider public? We don't use the Craft to gain a better foothold in life. We are about charity/philanthropy.

The skull is not a negative symbol. Its a symbol of mortality. Well, the Nazi's used the Swastika with evil intentions, but American Indians and Buddhists use it too. Symbols are used by everyone and everyone has a different interpretation of them.

Name some of those symbols used by Nazi Germany? Plus, Nazi Germany banned Freemasonry as they were seen to be puppets of the Jews.

It's not so much secrecy as you can find all sorts of information on the Internet. It's privacy. We don't pay homage to Lucifer as Freemasonry doesn't force its members to pick another God, each member worships according to his own religion that he was a part before he joined Freemasonry. The constant flood that Freemasonry is its own religion is a joke. Anyone that joins Freemasonry knows this. And who are these Freemasons that you have asked? We're not anti-any religion. Get over it. Quit trying to brand us and get over your uneasiness.

Wow, there's a surprising number of people on this thread defending the masons and pulling apart the arguments of those who are critical of them....interesting. Just sayin'

Originally posted by wcitizen
Wow, there's a surprising number of people on this thread defending the masons and pulling apart the arguments of those who are critical of them....interesting. Just sayin'

Hi wcitizen,


Your ATS member name says a lot about you and why you might find exception to that fact. You see, Masons are ot citizens, they are "brothers". This means that there is something which is above any notion of citizenship, they are first and foremost members of a secret "brotherhood" which places its members far above others in terms of rights and duties. They pledge subservience first and foremost to that Sect and not to any nation or creed. Therefore they are NOT by any measure citizens with a genuine primary allegiance to society at large, but have a dominant allegiance (assorted with death threats at each initiation level) to the Secret Society. So a person so attached to citizenry, as you seem to be from your ATS name, would likely be upset by such a behavior which goes against pretty much anything, nation, faith, family, friendship, truth... in order to defend the blanket of deceit cast around their Sect.


There are a lot of members from Freemasonry at ATS and it has been said that many of the Mods and Admins are themselves high level initiates. Not sure about it being factual but relaying what has become a widespread rumor at ATS, to be taken with a grain of salt of course. Most threads which bring up either Freemasons or Lucifer tend to get a barrage of posts with numerous members adamantly defending the kind hearted nature of that secret society and the innocuous misinterpretation of Satan or the benevolent nature of his role in the divine plan. Figure it out for yourself, but there is a distinct rift between the Masonic Religious Belief System and what most normal folks tend to think is either Good or Evil. FWIW


Getsmart

reply to post by Getsmart


You're replying to a banned member, a year after he posted, in response to a thread that had ended 2 years ago...

Why?

reply to post by JoshNorton


And why are you posting in a thread which ended one, and not two years ago? Maybe because it did not END, as unless a thread is locked by Mods here it is open for us to post in at any time we please. Furthermore, even if a person is banned from posting they are not banned from reading? I respect that former member's post and have known some extremely valid and intelligent people who have been banned from ATS, some even take pride in that as evidence for being true to themselves and not about to be bullied by a Masonic faction, as many are bullied elsewhere in quite a few walks of life by their "brotherhood" which is far far from brotherly with those who aren't members of their sect. Finally, it really is no business of your why I post what I may where I may and for whatever reasons to which I alone am privy. Maybe it is because it was due to my heritage from my predecessors likely above your level in that sect, and knowledge of the ills they perpetrated with a sense of inherited family guilt? Needless to say, you don't want me to start unwrapping that story here to further tarnish your fraternity.


GS

reply to post by Getsmart

We are Brothers amongst the Craft, but I am still a citizen, a family member, a soldier, and overall nice guy. Membership in the Craft does not usurp, circumvent, or void my role in other vocations in life. It is absurd and somewhat insulting to say I am not a citizen because I am a proud citizen. Your assertions go against what we are taught.

By your claim you are calling us outlaws, those who exist without the law, and any protection thereof, whereby we could be killed if so wished and the perpetrators would not be held accountable.

This is from the 1st Degree Charge:

As a Citizen, you are enjoined to be exemplary in the discharge of your civil duties, by never proposing or countenancing any act which may have a tendency to subvert the peace and good order of society; by paying due obedience to the laws under whose protection you live; and by never losing sight of the allegiance due to your country.

We ARE still citizens and no one is going to tell me different.

Nothing in Freemasonry goes against our allegiance to our nation, our faith, our families, friends, and truth is the first lesson taught in Freemasonry, and one of the 3 principle tenets of our Order.

Some of the Moderators on here are Masons, but their membership does not interfere with their duties as a Moderator, and that can be clearly seen by the rational mind.

I am here as an individual Mason defending the Craft for what I know it to be.

I'd also like to expound on the whole truth thing within a "secret society". Us not telling you about our Oaths and Obligations does not make us untruthful or dishonest. Keeping to our word doesn't mean we are not telling the truth.

Originally posted by KSigMason

This is from the 1st Degree Charge:

As a Citizen, you are enjoined to be exemplary in the discharge of your civil duties, by never proposing or countenancing any act which may have a tendency to subvert the peace and good order of society; by paying due obedience to the laws under whose protection you live; and by never losing sight of the allegiance due to your country.

I am here as an individual Mason defending the Craft for what I know it to be.

I find it compelling that in a secret order which requires that initiates renounce increasingly greater portions of their conscience to the Sect, that you quote the 1st Degree Charge rather than those above it which require just the opposite - even if not so explicitly stated? Similarly the Military might order one of their sharpshooters to shoot a US Citizen on US Soil, explaining to them it is not only their duty as a soldier but also as a citizen who must be dedicated to defending the American Way of Life. They don't need to explain to him that his act is in fact a crime which violates a citizen's rights, and just as you believe you are a Citizen so does he. Only the harm is done because Free Will is surrendered to a broader organization which is unaccountable. This is the case in the Military Secret Service such as NSA special branches as it is in Freemasonry with its ever so special lodges.

Originally posted by KSigMason

I'd also like to expound on the whole truth thing within a "secret society". Us not telling you about our Oaths and Obligations does not make us untruthful or dishonest. Keeping to our word doesn't mean we are not telling the truth.

You wish us to judge you as truthful? Then why in a court of law does anyone providing testimony have to pledge an oath that they "swear to tell the truth, all the truth, nothing but the truth"? Because if you don't tell ALL THE TRUTH you are deceiving others, it is called a passive form of LYING. This is why it you and your brothers are NOT CITIZENS in the strict sense of loyalty to other citizens in a sovereign nation state, and that your Secret Society of Freemasonry represents a serious National Security Threat to the United States and any other nation where they operate!


Getsmart

reply to post by Getsmart

Those above it? You mean the 2nd and 3rd degree Charge? Nothing in those Charges oppose what the 1st degree does or teaches. If you have evidence of this please post it.

You can't really compare soldier life to Masonic life. You speak as if all our daily actions, words, and thoughts are dictated by the Lodge and leadership. It is not.

What special Lodges? You're using your own terminology to describe something so maybe you can share an example with the rest of the class? Are you meaning historical Lodges or Lodges of Research?

Have I lied? No. When asked about certain things in Masonry I have said, I cannot, I took an Oath not to reveal those to anyone. That is the truth. Your warped sense of us somehow lying does not null or void our citizenship.

We're a serious national security threat? You really are a fascist aren't you? My God. I guess you want to just line through that 1st Amendment, 4th Amendment, 5th Amendment, 6th Amendment, and 8th Amendment. Necessity is the cry of the tyrant.

"Those who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither"

Originally posted by Extant Taxon

I still don't see that the rank and file of masonry as on the "Dark Side" and as "Sith Lords,"

Have I ever told you the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?

reply to post by Masonic Light

Once in a galaxy far far away...

*Yawn*

How does this piece of crap survive on the first page of this forum?
After reading the thread, my conclusion is you all sound like a bunch of 15 year old girls.

I have more fun scratching my mediterranean nuts.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
How does this piece of crap survive on the first page of this forum?

Because you just bumped it....