What is the true story of Genesis and why was Lilith conveniently left out??? , page 4

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by justamomma
For the record, the Torah is not narrow ..

Yes it is.

Matthew 7:13: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

Given that Jesus only was calling to the house of Israel, it means that few are willing to except the covenant of the People.

Noone has yet, still been able to live wholeheartedly by the law without breaking (or sinning against) it.

Yes there has and are those who successfully live by it. Listen, let's take a common law here in America. Say you are driving over the speed limit .. you get fined. If you pay the fine, you have fulfilled the conditions of the Law so as to be restored to the status of law abider. Same thing with the Laws given to the Jewish. Most focus only on what they are told and don't take time to understand it ... there are ways to make restoration for the commands broken. And the way the judgments are set up, they are meant to teach... to make one wise.

There have been many just and rightious Hebrews and other people, though, but they would all have to confess their sins before the One Lord of the Shining Ones.

Well, I don't know what you mean by the "shining ones" but true ... if you confess and accept the judgment, you are still abiding by the Law.

We are all sinners. Jesju included.

Well, if I could hug you for your common sense here, I would.

The thing with Jesju, though is that he COMPLETED the law, by adding his simple contribution: You shall love one another. But he would still at some point have to explain himself about why he brought shame uppon his mother and family, saying they were not his true family (Matt 12:46ff, Mark3:31ff and Luke 8:19ff). He would also have to explain a minor thing like why he stole a parked donkey around Passover, 30 AD. Another thing would be to have an explanation as to why destroying a sand castle should be punnished by death, if the story is true, that is (According to apocryphal writings Jesju killed the son of Annas the Scribe when he was a young lad. And how making his alef-bet teacher disabled just because he wanted to go from the letter alef to bet too soon accorsing to young Jesju's ideas of how to teach the alef-bet.

WOW! I am really impressed. Most choose to ignore these parts of the NT. If Jesus wasn't a liar by saying he fulfilled the Law (Matthew 5:17) then we must assume that Jesus made restitution by accepting the judgments. Otherwise, these are very good examples of the inconsistency of the Christian doctrine.

All in all, the point is .. we were created human. Without these (what we label) mistakes, we would not learn. In essence, we would be robots. This is why the "grace for grace" that is talked about in John and what Jesus meant by pointing out what is said in the Tanakh .. that God desires mercy over sacrifice .. that we should not condemn the guiltless. Non-belief in a man as God is not a sin. In fact, non belief in God is not a sin worthy of condemnation. Truth doesn't require faith to still be truth.

Jesju tells us it's essencial to observe, live by and teach the Torah in order to gain entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven. He also says that unless we practice the Law atleast as just and rightious as the Pharicees (who were extremely Law abiding), and if we had managed that, we must sell everything we own to enter God's kingdom.

Agreed ... but a Gentile is not made righteous by obeying the Laws given to the Jewish. Their commands are touched upon in Genesis 9 .. 7 common sense commands that merely separate man from the animals. Obey these (which again, most do in all honesty), you are considered righteous.

Jesus' main focus though was to the Jews and to the house of Israel. Thus why he emphasized on the Laws given to the Israel, the People.

Still, there is much wisdom to learn from our Laws for those willing to look at them and understand them. Just most are made to feel guilty before they even study them .. thus, they assume they ARE guilty already. This is not necessarily true. A Gentile is free to learn from the Laws without the condemnation that is through the Law. That only comes if a Gentile decides to accept the covenant. We are not a barbaric or unfair People.

I'd say the way of Jesju is even narrower than the Torah. He would also have to wxplain himself regarding him calling the family and friend of a mourning man dead and lure him into following him and his pack instead of showing his dad the last respect and to another guy that he shouldn't tell his family that he was going to be out in a boat an especially stormy night, and how Jesju in this portion of the Gospel tempts God in the most obvious manner (Matt 8:18ff, Luke 9:57ff), and there is much more. Still, none of these crimes against his own law, should result in or justify execution, given the appropriate contexts, and referances.

You are correct that Jesus had a narrower view of the Law ... but he was merely trying to set up fences around the Law to prevent his own from breaking the commands. Personally, I don't think that it is wise he did this because it gave a misconception about the Laws. No where in our Laws will you find condemnation for natural human behaviour such as thinking on another to lust after them. That is something that is natural. Thoughts aren't sin.

Jesju, like the Pharicees and many of his counterparts, except for the Saduchees and a few other sects and political parties, believed in the ressurection of the dead and a final judgement, and even a second death.

The Pharisees believed in the two different resurrections as seen in Acts. They believed in the one where the ignorant become aware and then, of the People back to their land. Jesus believed this as well as is evident in Mark 12. If you read it carefully with understanding of the Tanakh, this much is obvious.

This following point may not be adressed to you personally, but to all Christians who claim Jesju (or 616: "Jesus") had to die for our sins, and that the Gospel says he did. BUT: What kind of rightiousness and mercy do you show when you sum up using the prophecy of Jesju and the Law he was under, that he had to die for your sins, so you can live forever in eternal bliss? Why would Jesju have to die for our sins?

I am enjoying your insights. You are correct again to ask such questions. The Torah and the rest of the Tanakh say explicitly that one man cannot die for another's sins. Ezekiel 18 does well to explain this. It sounds barbaric to me that so many find the sacrifice of a Jew to their god a proper atonement for sin.

Certain people back then were members of Moloch cults, who demanded human sacrifice. Many of these were Jews or Hebrews otherwise.

This is much like the Jews for Jesus crowd .. I Kings 18 is where Elijah deals with such who were calling themselves Jews (perhaps, Jews for Baal). Just because one is born Jew does not mean that keep their Jewishness no matter what. And the truth of the matter is, a person converted to judaism because of understanding is often more of a Jew than most.

Jewish is not a race as most assume, it is a religion (though one that some are born into).

Anyway .. thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have enjoyed reading them.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by justamomma]

Everything we have written about Lilit is based of ancient and diverse and often conflicting oral traditions and the stories were often "produced" within a kind of system where things like technology and wisdom should be hidden, but present.... The stories of Lilit: She was the first woman Adam had sex with, and some say they have children too with Adam, others cound the Tree of knowledge like a sexual intercourse, where Lilit planned to say "got ya!" to Adam through dominating Shavah in an intecourse where Cain was the result. Some say the purpose of the union of Lilit and Adam was to bring forth a new wing of angels. But what we do know is that Cain and his tree became the sons of YHWH. Cain was also said to have many androgynous descendants, and that if a heshe was born they were often very "good" or "decent" people doing less of the things the Kenites were more known for, weapons, technology, buildings, royalty, wisdom and building cities, trade etc. the masculine principle but more writing, teaching, healing, art, religion, law etc. the feminine principle.

Adam and Lilit wre in love. The story goes that it was only sex with them in the beginning and the children that was the result were brought up by angels, not themselves, and given away in marriage to the best of the other peoples God had made appart from Adam (white) and Lilit (red) which was probably important in order not to judge close relation unions later on, but they changed uppon being the dominant part. They are said to have had five sons, all androgynous like themselves, one white, one black, one red, one yellow and one tanned (the golden one). Adam saw that the children he had carried forth looked more like lilith, and he saw that the children Lilit had carried looked more like him. After he realised this Adam refused to be the dominated part any longer, he always wanted to domnate and be the ejaculating part, and Lilit in turn grew bored, thought of finding other lovers and so on. Until it actually happened and Adam was left alone.

This is where Adam cries on God's shoulder and says (...he is lonely and appart from the ones already taken...) he can't find his like. And God having spied on Adam and Lilit quite some time and knowing LOVE, he figured Adam had found he was more male than female, and he had more masculine features, unlike Lilit who was very feminine looking, and with a slight reddish rosy tan and blue eyes, unlike Adam who had green eyes and pale skin like his temple's Architect and anti-self, God.

To make a long story short, God had figured the union with Lilit was over, that there was no way back, and that Adam had problems with his androgynous nature. God had a walk with Adam, explaining the facts of life and how being angelic, above the usual nature where life was divided in two, that in order to be like Adam and the gods were back then, one would have to bring in a couple. Like if Adam was a bow made of the core wood of a great tree, while the "regular" (in our sense) sapiens' who lived in the world were split bows. At this time Adam had given name to every living thing in Eden and created a simple language based on the names of stars and angels etc. and the sounds of the language God had taught him, the names of plants, animals, fish, birds, insects, places and so on. God saw he was ready to aquire REAL knowledge.

Adam was put here to become a god and to cultivate this terretrial biotop in time, leaving it better shaped than when he inherited it. This is probably the reason behind the age old principles that the gods stay in heaven the humans stay on earth, we don't mix... This is our's, the Earth belongs to Adam and his descendants. Leave us with it!

Well, anyway, God puts Adam into deep sleep, he takes out an egg from Adam (Tsela[heb] = Cella[lat] = cell[eng]) and close up Adam's reproductive organ - down there - with flesh. God then firtilises the egg with his own semen and builds Shavah, our Eve, and her genetic makeup is locked at female, Adam is locked in the male gear. Like if he split the original Adam in two like a bowmaker splits the wood, how the stonecutter splits the rock and how just about all life we know is based on symmetry.

Take a face for instance. Open a picture of yourself in Photoshop split it along the vertical middle and mirror them, so you get two pictures, one with two rights and one with two lefts. The more these two pictures look alike, the greater chance you are probably "goodlooking". We are slaves of phi, pi and symetry basically when we choose a spouse. Personality, intelligence or wisdom has just about nothing to say in our choice of partners.

When Adam woke up, he woke up beside a fully grown, naked woman, whom he straight away fell in love with. The story goes this is why men always have an erection when we wake up in the morning, since Adam woke up beside the most beautiful thing God had yet to made. Adam tried and tried to lure her into having sex with him, but she was unknowing, and like virgins today, she thought of such as icky and didn't really see the point in it. They were naked, for everyone were naked in Eden, except God and his workers. Here the story splits in many rivers. One says Adam went to God, another that Adam went to Lilit, to make a deal, others vary over coincidences, but this is where my reply should really have started had you all had the background....

They are gathered in the center of Eden, where the source of the four rivers is, and the Tree of Knowledge and (which is?) also the Tree of Life. Lilit had put a spell on a wormand stood by the foot of the Tree. Adam and Eve came over, Eve was scared, but intrigued.

"So this is the tree we are not supposed to eat from, Adam?"
"Yes this is it, Shavah"

They came over and Lilit asked them to look at something: A worm was eating from the fruit of the tree. And Lilit spake:

"When this blind worm eats from this tree, it can see like we can and understand what world it lives in, what colours is and what depth, height and length is. When we eat from it, we see like the gods see, we understand like the gods understand, we see everything and can create our own worlds."

Lilit took a bite and handed the fruit over to Shavah. Intimidated by how Lilit had explained it she ate. But nothing happened.

"What am I supposed to see? I don't see anything new!" Shavah said.

Lilit came over, and asked Eve to look up into the sky, where the moon and the stars started shining as the Sun had fallen, which she did. Lilit started telling Eve an incredibly startling story and while she spoke, she started making love with Eve. Remember that Lilith is 50/50 male/female. When Eve realise what is going on she feels ashamed, but Lilit ejaculates into Shavah. After her, Adam has sex with Shevah. Somehow, Eve conceives two children that evening. One of Adam's seed and one of Lilit's. One was going to be called Cain, the other Abel, two egged twins. Cain killed Abel and moved to India, where he founded Hinduism and made the first city in the Indus valley. The name was Hanok.

If you are a man and have a hard time believing Adam was a hermafrodite, take a mirror and look at the area between your rectum and scrotum. It seams we were made like women, only sewn shut, doesn't it?