It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by jinx880101...We cannot dispute the fact that this woman did exist...
Kabbalistic mysticism attempted to establish a more exact relationship between Lilith and the Deity. With her major characteristics having been well-developed by the end of the Talmudic period, after six centuries had elapsed between the Aramaic incantation texts that mention Lilith and the early Spanish Kabbalistic writings in the 13th century, she reappears, and her life history becomes known in greater mythological detail.
Her creation is described in many alternative versions. One mentions her creation as being before Adam's, on the fifth day, because the "living creatures" with whose swarms God filled the waters included none other than Lilith. A similar version, related to the earlier Talmudic passages, recounts how Lilith was fashioned with the same substance as Adam was, shortly before. A third alternative version states that God originally created Adam and Lilith in a manner that the female creature was contained in the male. Lilith's soul was lodged in the depths of the Great Abyss. When God called her, she joined Adam. After Adam's body was created a thousand souls from the Left (evil) side attempted to attach themselves to him. However, God drove them off. Adam was left lying as a body without a soul. Then a cloud descended and God commanded the earth to produce a living soul. This God breathed into Adam, who began to spring to life and his female was attached to his side. God separated the female from Adam's side. The female side was Lilith, whereupon she flew to the Cities of the Sea and attacks humankind. Yet another version claims that Lilith was not created by God, but emerged as a divine entity that was born spontaneously, either out of the Great Supernal Abyss or out of the power of an aspect of God (the Gevurah of Din). This aspect of God, one of his ten attributes (Sefirot), at its lowest manifestation has an affinity with the realm of evil and it is out of this that Lilith merged with Samael.
An alternative story links Lilith with the creation of luminaries. The "first light," which is the light of Mercy (one of the Sefirot), appeared on the first day of creation when God said "Let there be light." This light became hidden and the Holiness became surrounded by a husk of evil. ”A husk (q'lippa) was created around the brain" and this husk spread and brought out another husk, which was Lilith. source
Even though most of the Lilith legend is derived from Jewish folklore, descriptions of the Lilith demon appear in Iranian, Babylonian, Mexican, Greek, Arab, English, German, Oriental and Native American legends. Also, she sometimes has been associated with legendary and mythological characters such as the Queen of Sheba and Helen of Troy. In medieval Europe she was proclaimed to be the wife, concubine or grandmother of Satan.source
Lilith is most well-known as the demoness/goddess who was the first woman, created by god at the same time as adam, unlike eve who was created from adam's rib. lilith refused to submit to adam's will and left the garden of eden and was subsequently cursed by god. according to popular opinion, this tale is "evidence" that she was originally a goddess or at the very least an aspect of the great goddess and was demonized for being an independant female.
Unfortunately, what many people forget is that the "first eve" story of lilith first appeared in medieval times, in the controversial work known as the alphabet of ben sirah. although lilith herself existed before the middle ages, all earlier descriptions of her were demonic. lilith's true origins are obscure, but both her sumerian and babylonian predecessors were also all demonic. lilith may be many things today, including but not limited to a goddess, a role model, and a demoness, but originally she was purely a demoness.
Overview of Lilith
Lilith is the most important of a small collection of named female demons in Jewish legend. Historically, she is actually older than Judaism (at least Judaism as defined as a post-restoration phenomenon). Her earliest appearance is probably in ancient Sumer. Although it is far from certain, she may be a minor character in a prologue to the Epic of Gilgamesh. In the ancient world she also sometimes appears in magical texts, amulets, etc., intended to thwart her activities. She appears once in the Bible (Isaiah), in a context that associates her with demons of the desert, and again in some Dead Sea Scroll passages clearly based on the Isaiah reference.
We see somewhat more of her in late Roman/early medieval Judaism. She appears frequently on prophylactic magical bowls. In this context, she is clearly associated with childbirth (e.g. as a threat), and perhaps also as a succubus against which men need protection. In these bowls she is often countered by invoking the powers of her nemesis angels: Snvi, Snsvi, and Smnglof (we don't know what vowels to use with these names, but presumably they were intended to be pronounceable). She also shows up in the Talmud, and is clearly linked with the demonic world. Here also, her role as succubus begins to take clear shape.
Somewhere between the eighth and tenth centuries, CE, she makes an appearance in a satirical work entitled the Alphabet of Ben Sira. It is here that she is first given what has become her most famous persona: the first wife of Adam (before Eve). In this story, she is created at more or less the same time as Adam, and, as was Adam, out of the ground. Because of this she tries to assert her equality -- an assertion which Adam rejects. Refusing to conform to Adam's desires, she escapes from Eden, and is subsequently replaced by the more subservient Eve (who has less claim to equality, since she was made out of Adam's side). Having escaped Eden, Lilith takes on her renowned role as baby-stealer and mother of demons. She also promises to leave babies alone who are protected by amulets with the names of the three angels mentioned above.
Originally posted by jinx880101
reply to post by Frogs
Yes, by some. But others might disagree that she was a mistake, she had no flaws. All she did wrong was get angry at Adam when forcefully trying to get her beneath him...
I fear I will never know what to believe before the day I die... and if I get sent to hell for siding with Lilith on this one, so be it.
Originally posted by jinx880101
reply to post by lisa2012
Thank you for your post and for the links, I will definitely take some time to review them. You briefly spoke of Zacharia Sitchen, I am in the middle of one of his books at the moment... What you say makes sense and is reasuring in a way. I'm always feeling like I have to rush to find 'the truth' before something happens to me. The other side of me tells me that I cannot rush understanding and whoever/whatever is out there will understand my scepticism.
Thanks again for your post.
Originally posted by jinx880101
We cannot dispute the fact that this woman did exist, as she is metioned on various occations in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and not so much in the King James Bible. After all, there is some truth to everything.
(f) Undismayed by His failure to give Adam a suitable helpmeet, God tried again, and let him watch while he built up a woman's anatomy: using bones, tissues, muscles, blood and glandular secretions, then covering the whole with skin and adding tufts of hair in places. The sight caused Adam such disgust that even when this woman, the First Eve, stood there in her full beauty, he felt an invincible repugnance. God knew that He had failed once more, and took the First Eve away. Where she went, nobody knows for certain. 
Originally posted by gYvMessanger
reply to post by Shane
Adam was also a 6th day creation whats your point ?
This is the line that marks Adam / Lilith the 2 in 1 human:
Genesis Ch 1 v 26 - 27
And God said "Let us make Man in Our image, after Our likeness. They shall rule over the fish of the sea, the birds in the sky, and over the animal, the whole earth, and every creeping things that creeps upon the earth." So God created Man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female. He created Them.
At this point there is no Eve there is just the man (technically not yet named as naming happens afters the 7th day at Ch 2 v 18 when god calls Adam man for the time), and yet man was created on the 6th day and with feminine aspects, Ch 1 v 28 starts God Blessed THEM.
However it is not until after the 7th day in Ch 2 v 7 that man receives a physical body and it is not until even later on that in Ch 2 v 20 the process of Eves creation starts.
Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Clearly by his being named Man (not just as a name but in a sexual sense), physical Adam who is bought to Eden after the 7th day, had somehow lost a portion of the spirit that had been assigned previously, as clearly shown above when god made male and female at the same time in the same creation, and yet now there is no female to be seen, is it hiding in Adam, does he somehow become significantly less when the feminine is taken out of him to be put into Eve ? Well that can't be because the Torah clearly says that only a rib was taken from Adam a portion of the dirt body he had been given not long ago.
When Eve is finished in Ch 2 v 23 states " And the man said "THIS time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This shall be called Woman, for from man was she taken".
The Zohar elaborates on this concept, in the chapters corresponding to Genesis.
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Originally posted by KOGDOG
I have a question for you that may shed light on Lilith.
"If only Adam and Eve existed, then who was Cain afraid of that would kill him?
4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy
brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened
her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield
unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be
in the earth.
4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater
than I can bear.
4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of
the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a
fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to
pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.