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What is the true story of Genesis and why was Lilith conveniently left out???

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posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by gYvMessanger
 


I also read somewhere else, that when god created one of the three woman for Adam, several spirits were trying to enter the bodies of Adam and 'Eve' that were laying there uncontious. God shunned them away, and when he had completed the woman, he breathed life into them.

That may not be the exact wording, I will try to find that paragraph and quote it.




posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by jinx880101...We cannot dispute the fact that this woman did exist...


yes, we can dispute it. in fact: the whole idea of Lilith comes from the ancient rabbinical tradition of argument. boy oh boy did those men LOVE to argue....sometimes they even made crap up, just so that they could argue about it. One of those subjects was concerning why are there two seperate creation myths outlined in the torah?

its a good question, and one that deserves some astute attention...but anything that comes from it is rhetoric.


consider her existence: disputed.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by jinx880101
 


Jink this is the part I think you are referring to


Kabbalistic mysticism attempted to establish a more exact relationship between Lilith and the Deity. With her major characteristics having been well-developed by the end of the Talmudic period, after six centuries had elapsed between the Aramaic incantation texts that mention Lilith and the early Spanish Kabbalistic writings in the 13th century, she reappears, and her life history becomes known in greater mythological detail.[40]
Her creation is described in many alternative versions. One mentions her creation as being before Adam's, on the fifth day, because the "living creatures" with whose swarms God filled the waters included none other than Lilith. A similar version, related to the earlier Talmudic passages, recounts how Lilith was fashioned with the same substance as Adam was, shortly before. A third alternative version states that God originally created Adam and Lilith in a manner that the female creature was contained in the male. Lilith's soul was lodged in the depths of the Great Abyss. When God called her, she joined Adam. After Adam's body was created a thousand souls from the Left (evil) side attempted to attach themselves to him. However, God drove them off. Adam was left lying as a body without a soul. Then a cloud descended and God commanded the earth to produce a living soul. This God breathed into Adam, who began to spring to life and his female was attached to his side. God separated the female from Adam's side. The female side was Lilith, whereupon she flew to the Cities of the Sea and attacks humankind. Yet another version claims that Lilith was not created by God, but emerged as a divine entity that was born spontaneously, either out of the Great Supernal Abyss or out of the power of an aspect of God (the Gevurah of Din). This aspect of God, one of his ten attributes (Sefirot), at its lowest manifestation has an affinity with the realm of evil and it is out of this that Lilith merged with Samael.[41]
An alternative story links Lilith with the creation of luminaries. The "first light," which is the light of Mercy (one of the Sefirot), appeared on the first day of creation when God said "Let there be light." This light became hidden and the Holiness became surrounded by a husk of evil. ”A husk (q'lippa) was created around the brain" and this husk spread and brought out another husk, which was Lilith.[42] source




From a personal perspective I had grown up reading the sanitized Bible and found it very interesting that a muslim friend was the one who mentioned Lilth to me. Although I have not heard other muslims refer to Lilith they share some of the folklore such as "do not sleep away from your wife at night (as in on the couch) as you are inviting a demon to lay with you."

Although there seem to be many references to her in other cultures.

Even though most of the Lilith legend is derived from Jewish folklore, descriptions of the Lilith demon appear in Iranian, Babylonian, Mexican, Greek, Arab, English, German, Oriental and Native American legends. Also, she sometimes has been associated with legendary and mythological characters such as the Queen of Sheba and Helen of Troy. In medieval Europe she was proclaimed to be the wife, concubine or grandmother of Satan.source



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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I think we can agree she didn't originate as part of the Judaic mythos (for lack of a better term), but was around even before the formation of the Jewish religion, in certain cultures.

I guess the question then becomes is the Jewish accounting of Lilith accurate despite that.

It's probably also worth pointing shes a highly esoterical subject (in jewdiasm at least) , the stories are definitely not meant to be read in a literal sense (given that they are in the Zohar).



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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But why was Lilith left out?

This is a question which can cause nothing but undue stress and conflicting arguements which can never be answered, but only pondered.

We must remember one thing here, when considering this.

What is the Bible about?

Genesis chapter 1, deals in specific with "The Creation Story" or "The Recreation Story".

On the 6th Day, along with the multitude of Living things "Created and/or Recreated" man, (both male and female) where created. This encompasses the Global "Creation/Recreation" day. The Fishes and the Fowls and the Beasts and the creepth things, ALONG WITH MAN.

Lilith is part of the SIXTH DAY CREATION. She may very well have had interaction with a man created after the day of rest to till GOD's Garden. That man was Adam. He is unique from the Sixth Day Creation/Recreation Man in one way. He was a farmer. Not the Hunter/Gatherer, which is clearly noted on the Sixth Day.

There is also the other concern when speaking of "These Days". 24 Hours? 1 Week? 1000 Years? 1 Progression of the Equinox?

The main point here is that Lilith, is a Sixth Day Creation.

When we look to Chapter 2 in Genesis, what is the Topic? The need to have one to tend the Garden. It is ALL ABOUT ADAM. It ends with the "CREATION" of Eve. The topic here has been mentioned in passing, but the relevant matter that must be remembered is, there was none LIKE Adam to be his mate/wife.

The Topic now could devolve into some areas of racial fingerpointing, but I wish everyone to remember, if GOD looked and found the Creation/Recreation Man, [both male and female, which he made in "OUR" (collectively speaking) image], was GOOD, then who has a right to argue otherwise. Adam had no one like him, because he was created seperate from the Sixth Day. He was not part of that time, SOOOOOO, his interactions with Lilith, or anyone else for that matter, would have little bearing on the TOPIC of Genesis Chapter 2.

Genesis Chpater 3 deals with the TWO SEEDS, and how they got along. Cain and Abel didn't end up very good.

Genesis Chapter 4, deals with that SEED of the Serpent, and his Bloodline thru his son Cain.

Genesis Chapter 5 Deals with ADAM's Bloodline thru his son Seth.

And the balance of the Old Testament follows that specific Bloodline thru to Christ.

Some may argue it's not quite as simple as this, but it really is. The Bible (Old Testament) gives us a Family Line from Adam to Christ. Of course there are the Teachings, Laws, and Moral Stories we are to learn from and follow, but the general simple fact is, from Noah, [the only one left which had a pure pedigree from Adam, unblemished by Sexual Activities spoken about in Chapter 6, with the Fallen] thru to Abraham, and then Moses, and David to Christ is the main story line.

Now, why was Lilith left out?

She's not part of that Story Line. She has nothing at all to do with anything that GOD had to tell Moses (The Books of Moses). She has nothing to do with Christ or his family.

SO why include someone who has little to do with the Family Line?

Just my few cents on the subject. I did not note anyone had considered this, and whether there is merit in looking at this from this perspective.

Ciao

Shane

www.jesus-is-lord.com...



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 09:07 PM
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www.lilitu.com...

Lilith is most well-known as the demoness/goddess who was the first woman, created by god at the same time as adam, unlike eve who was created from adam's rib. lilith refused to submit to adam's will and left the garden of eden and was subsequently cursed by god. according to popular opinion, this tale is "evidence" that she was originally a goddess or at the very least an aspect of the great goddess and was demonized for being an independant female.
Unfortunately, what many people forget is that the "first eve" story of lilith first appeared in medieval times, in the controversial work known as the alphabet of ben sirah. although lilith herself existed before the middle ages, all earlier descriptions of her were demonic. lilith's true origins are obscure, but both her sumerian and babylonian predecessors were also all demonic. lilith may be many things today, including but not limited to a goddess, a role model, and a demoness, but originally she was purely a demoness.


ccat.sas.upenn.edu...
Overview of Lilith
Lilith is the most important of a small collection of named female demons in Jewish legend. Historically, she is actually older than Judaism (at least Judaism as defined as a post-restoration phenomenon). Her earliest appearance is probably in ancient Sumer. Although it is far from certain, she may be a minor character in a prologue to the Epic of Gilgamesh. In the ancient world she also sometimes appears in magical texts, amulets, etc., intended to thwart her activities. She appears once in the Bible (Isaiah), in a context that associates her with demons of the desert, and again in some Dead Sea Scroll passages clearly based on the Isaiah reference.
We see somewhat more of her in late Roman/early medieval Judaism. She appears frequently on prophylactic magical bowls. In this context, she is clearly associated with childbirth (e.g. as a threat), and perhaps also as a succubus against which men need protection. In these bowls she is often countered by invoking the powers of her nemesis angels: Snvi, Snsvi, and Smnglof (we don't know what vowels to use with these names, but presumably they were intended to be pronounceable). She also shows up in the Talmud, and is clearly linked with the demonic world. Here also, her role as succubus begins to take clear shape.
Somewhere between the eighth and tenth centuries, CE, she makes an appearance in a satirical work entitled the Alphabet of Ben Sira. It is here that she is first given what has become her most famous persona: the first wife of Adam (before Eve). In this story, she is created at more or less the same time as Adam, and, as was Adam, out of the ground. Because of this she tries to assert her equality -- an assertion which Adam rejects. Refusing to conform to Adam's desires, she escapes from Eden, and is subsequently replaced by the more subservient Eve (who has less claim to equality, since she was made out of Adam's side). Having escaped Eden, Lilith takes on her renowned role as baby-stealer and mother of demons. She also promises to leave babies alone who are protected by amulets with the names of the three angels mentioned above.

More on Lilith:
ccat.sas.upenn.edu...



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Shane
 


Adam was also a 6th day creation whats your point ?

This is the line that marks Adam / Lilith the 2 in 1 human:

Genesis Ch 1 v 26 - 27

And God said "Let us make Man in Our image, after Our likeness. They shall rule over the fish of the sea, the birds in the sky, and over the animal, the whole earth, and every creeping things that creeps upon the earth." So God created Man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female. He created Them.

Who is this they / them that is spoken of ? At this point there is no Eve there is just the man (technically not yet named as naming happens afters the 7th day at Ch 2 v 18 when god calls Adam man for the time), and yet man was created on the 6th day and with feminine aspects, Ch 1 v 28 starts God Blessed THEM.

However it is not until after the 7th day in Ch 2 v 7 that man receives a physical body and it is not until even later on that in Ch 2 v 20 the process of Eves creation starts.

Clearly by his being named Man (not just as a name but in a sexual sense), physical Adam who is bought to Eden after the 7th day, had somehow lost a portion of the spirit that had been assigned previously, as clearly shown above when god made male and female at the same time in the same creation, and yet now there is no female to be seen, is it hiding in Adam, does he somehow become significantly less when the feminine is taken out of him to be put into Eve ? Well that can't be because the Torah clearly says that only a rib was taken from Adam a portion of the dirt body he had been given not long ago.

When Eve is finished in Ch 2 v 23 states " And the man said "THIS time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This shall be called Woman, for from man was she taken".

The Zohar elaborates on this concept, in the chapters corresponding to Genesis.


For reference I'm using the English Translation of the Art Scroll Torah (Stone Edition).



[edit on 16-9-2009 by gYvMessanger]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by jinx880101
reply to post by Frogs
 


Yes, by some. But others might disagree that she was a mistake, she had no flaws. All she did wrong was get angry at Adam when forcefully trying to get her beneath him...

I fear I will never know what to believe before the day I die... and if I get sent to hell for siding with Lilith on this one, so be it.


First you should start by not being afraid. No matter what you think it will be all good . There is no such thing as hell . You should start by switching your point of view . Look into Robert Monroe's Book Ultimate journey and journeys out of body ...se what people with OBE (out of body experiences ) see what their point of view is .

Here you can download these books :

Ultimate Journey :www.4shared.com...

Far Journeys :www.4shared.com...

Journeys out of Body :www.4shared.com...

Then you can also look into the Sumerian Tablets they are long dating the Jewish Folklore Zecharia Sitchin is doing an extensive research on this .

Now I can tell you that through meditation /or other means (certain mind altering plants ) you can achieve a certain state that will give you much more understanding of what life is all about .The important thing is that what is after life is much more important ...Someone once said:

"
Humans currently experiencing "Earth life" are on this Path, during which Life and Experience becomes increasingly "real" and glorious".The objective is to attain Enlightenment while still in the context of a physical human ...experience.Enlightenment is to realise the Physical, material "life" for the DREAM that it really is, having finally served its purpose which you understand and for which you are grateful"

We usually think that we are here and we live here and when we go to sleep we dream is actually quite the opposite we live our true experience once we fall asleep the same way when we die we will actually wake up . This here is an experience regardless of religion or no religion affinities no one should be judge based on that not even based on their crimes ...the purpose is to always end up in a better situation with few lessons learned ...love the day and the moment live the life with happiness love and gratitude and positive thinking ...explore all the ways and all points of view ...many doors will open without you even knowing or realizing i am talking about doors of perception .....and if you are not familiar with Aldous Huxley ..a brilliant mind you should read his work especially Doors of perception and some of his work ....Hope this helps in any way and I am not way off topic ...

Love



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 03:38 AM
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reply to post by lisa2012
 


Thank you for your post and for the links, I will definitely take some time to review them. You briefly spoke of Zacharia Sitchen, I am in the middle of one of his books at the moment... What you say makes sense and is reasuring in a way. I'm always feeling like I have to rush to find 'the truth' before something happens to me. The other side of me tells me that I cannot rush understanding and whoever/whatever is out there will understand my scepticism.

Thanks again for your post.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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So did Adam and Eve/Lillith have belly buttons?
I really want to know



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by Azador
 


That's a friggin good question! I would love to know too, but I doubt we will ever find out.
I have asked the same q about alien greys, as some say they have encoutered them. Thats the first thing I would look at, or try to if I saw something out of the ordinary.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by jinx880101
 


I have a question for you that may shed light on Lilith.

"If only Adam and Eve existed, then who was Cain afraid of that would kill him?



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by jinx880101
reply to post by lisa2012
 


Thank you for your post and for the links, I will definitely take some time to review them. You briefly spoke of Zacharia Sitchen, I am in the middle of one of his books at the moment... What you say makes sense and is reasuring in a way. I'm always feeling like I have to rush to find 'the truth' before something happens to me. The other side of me tells me that I cannot rush understanding and whoever/whatever is out there will understand my scepticism.

Thanks again for your post.


I have to let you know that the " rush " you are talking about I am feeling it too . Is strange my "search for truth and enlightenment " started 4 years ago but this rush is growing exponentially even though my knowledge /understanding is greater .

Lately I do Yoga and meditation that keeps me a little more relaxed and I feel like I gain something inside my soul ...I am scared too as I do not want to do any more things that are waisting my time but read and experience toward my self development.

I am happy to hear you feel the same way . I do no think I will have an answer to say THIS IS IT before I die but I am happy that at this moment I feel I am far more ahead than 4 years ago .

I also feel that is not about in who you believe or what you think is the truth like who is eve or lillith but more about how well you know yourself how much you believe in YOU to understand that you are part of a greater picture that we are all important and we should always conduct ourselves with very good principles and morals .

Things changed for me a lot since I turned towards ME and My Self and look inwards you will discover things that will surprise you.

I recommend meditation there is music as well that helps with that I recommend Yoga and read as much as you can from different point of views as I said before ..Things will come to you and do not pass Robert Monroe's books ....

Wish you all the best .



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by jinx880101
We cannot dispute the fact that this woman did exist, as she is metioned on various occations in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and not so much in the King James Bible. After all, there is some truth to everything.


your entire argument is based on this assumption.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by KOGDOG
 


Funny you ask that.. I have asked myself and others that question in the past. (I have all the ambiguous text in my Bible underlined, such as "let US make man in OUR image,etc etc)
Add another woman or two to the equation and you might just have and answer....Nice, I didn't think to connect the two until I read your post.
I'm only speculating here, but..
The other woman that could be considered,apart from Lilith, could be the one that God created in front of Adam and let him watch. The one that Adam could not look at because of the disgust he felt after whitnessing the process in which she was made. Again, I'm only speculating.

As posted in my original post.


(f) Undismayed by His failure to give Adam a suitable helpmeet, God tried again, and let him watch while he built up a woman's anatomy: using bones, tissues, muscles, blood and glandular secretions, then covering the whole with skin and adding tufts of hair in places. The sight caused Adam such disgust that even when this woman, the First Eve, stood there in her full beauty, he felt an invincible repugnance. God knew that He had failed once more, and took the First Eve away. Where she went, nobody knows for certain. [9]


[edit on 06/10/2009 by jinx880101]



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by jinx880101
 

what is the true story of Genesis and why was Lilith conveniently left out???

well, if lilith existed, i'd say it wasn't too convenient to attempt to leave her out if here we are thousands of years in the future and we still know of her ... considering the number of witnesses to her existance there was.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 06:35 AM
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Clearly these are some crafty genetic experiments we are reading about in the bible.
Personally, I see them as 'setting of the stage'.
But is says very little (or nothing) about the Goal of the Game.



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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I think what Ashely said was very true and too the point. Lilith is a mith brought up after the bible was even put in place. So the bible cannot have forgotten a lady that did not exist. Do you realize that ur talking about a mith. The OP really needs to got back to what Ashely said. She even use your own sources to prove you wrong. You thinking to hard about this. And Ashley is not a stupid person. She very informative.

And if you don't believe that the bible is historical accurate check this thread out I just made.

Evidence of the bible
www.belowtopsecret.com...

[edit on 20-9-2009 by slymattb]



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by gYvMessanger
reply to post by Shane
 


Adam was also a 6th day creation whats your point ?

This is the line that marks Adam / Lilith the 2 in 1 human:

Genesis Ch 1 v 26 - 27

And God said "Let us make Man in Our image, after Our likeness. They shall rule over the fish of the sea, the birds in the sky, and over the animal, the whole earth, and every creeping things that creeps upon the earth." So God created Man in His image, in the image of God He created him; male and female. He created Them.


I am so happy, finally one person in ATS has asked.

You are correct in the day SIX man, both male and female. The scripture noted is accurate.

Man, in this case is the spieces, male and female, and until the ENLIGHTENING of these people around the globe by the Elitist Powers, they continued doing exactly what is expressed within this scripture. NOTHING CHANGED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

The Aboriginies of Austraila are just one example. Their way of life is expressed directly within this Scripture. The Great Tribes of Africa, and the Peoples of South America, PRIOR TO THE WHITEMAN'S Arrival, all lived the way of life they are commanded by GOD to live.

Their life was supported by the "Fruits" of the Six Day.

This should answer your question. "Who is this they / them that is spoken of ? " They are the many RACES on the Planet.


At this point there is no Eve there is just the man (technically not yet named as naming happens afters the 7th day at Ch 2 v 18 when god calls Adam man for the time), and yet man was created on the 6th day and with feminine aspects, Ch 1 v 28 starts God Blessed THEM.

However it is not until after the 7th day in Ch 2 v 7 that man receives a physical body and it is not until even later on that in Ch 2 v 20 the process of Eves creation starts.


Excuse me. But just what is THE MAN, (Adam's) Task. Specifically!!!!!


Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.


Now does this seem anything like the "Hunters/Gathers"????

NO.

Now I understand, "Some" faiths have difficulties due to the DOGMAS, DOCTRINES, and THEOLOGY, that man from the Six Day and the ancestors of Cain and Adam have created. I am a Christian. Guess how receptive these TRUTHS fly around those circles.

There are many even here, that think ADAM was the FIRST MAN ever, when the Bible, and History clearly show this is not the case.

This should answer next problem.


Clearly by his being named Man (not just as a name but in a sexual sense), physical Adam who is bought to Eden after the 7th day, had somehow lost a portion of the spirit that had been assigned previously, as clearly shown above when god made male and female at the same time in the same creation, and yet now there is no female to be seen, is it hiding in Adam, does he somehow become significantly less when the feminine is taken out of him to be put into Eve ? Well that can't be because the Torah clearly says that only a rib was taken from Adam a portion of the dirt body he had been given not long ago.


Adam is CREATED after the Day of Rest (the Seventh Day).

When was this? 6000 Years Ago? According to the Family Tree, it would be pretty Close!

I mentioned a People who where created on the Sixth Day earlier. The Aboriginies. We know without a doubt, they followed a life style outlined on the 6th Day.

They have a Traditional understanding of the Sixth Day going back 14000 Years.

Adam is the First Man? No, he is THE Man. He is Created by GOD. and what is his job function? He is the FARMER. The first to Garden the Garden.


When Eve is finished in Ch 2 v 23 states " And the man said "THIS time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This shall be called Woman, for from man was she taken".

The Zohar elaborates on this concept, in the chapters corresponding to Genesis.


And again, why is Eve created? Adam, (the Farmer) had no one like him. Was Lilith "like him"? No, she was from the Races of Man created on the 6th day. This would suggest to me, she was from a race unlike Adam, (the Farmer). Adam was alone and needed a mate. He was Created alone, by God after the Day of rest, and he was given a unique task.

So my point is NO, Adam (THE man or the Farmer) is a Post Creation/Recreation, creation. He is Formed by GOD to Tend to the Garden after the Day of Rest.

Unlike the many beauitiful Peoples/Races of this planet which where Recreated/Created on the 6th Day. The same peoples we can find today, if we choose to look. The same peoples that are here, doing as instructed by God to do on the Sixth Day. The Same peoples that led to this.


Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


Does this sound like something unfinished? Sixth Day Lilith and the Races where physically here. Fruitfully multiplying and REPLENISHING (strange word for a creation story) the earth as God had instructed them to do.

I hope I have answered your query.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by KOGDOG

I have a question for you that may shed light on Lilith.

"If only Adam and Eve existed, then who was Cain afraid of that would kill him?


Your question is a confusing question. I think, inlight of the banishment and curse place upon Cain, he wished for death apposed to being afraid of it.


Genesis
4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy
brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened
her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield
unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be
in the earth.
4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater
than I can bear.
4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of
the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a
fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to
pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.


But the premise you offered is still valid. Who are the "every one that findeth me shall slay me"?

Of course, they are the Sixth Day Peoples.

Here's another question.

Where did Cain's wife come from?

I was taught long ago, to K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple Stupid)

What is expressed within the first Book of Moses (Genesis) is simple, if its kept with K.I.S.S. inmind. There is nothing that is confusing about it. It is spelled out quite clearly.

She is an inhabitant of the Land of Nod, and part of the Sixth Day Peoples.

Who else would she be?

Well, I have heard many Asses say she was his Sister, since Adam and Eve where the only people on this planet, and that they are the source of Humanity when Scripture clearly and simply states otherwise.

And these would be Christian Asses. The One's who think (or better said, are TAUGHT) since they are Christians, nothing else matters. Ignorance is Bliss. And yes, I am a Christian.

Keep up the good questioning. No one learns anything, if nothing is asked.

Ciao

Shane

[edit on 27-9-2009 by Shane]




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