How literally do you actually take the bible?

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posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by moocowman
Dude, not once has a jew a muslim a Buddhist or hindu knocked my door to kindly inform me or my children that we will be tortured for all eternity should we not think like them.


Well then thats because hindu's buddhists and the others are going to hell for thinking like you.



Not once has a jew or a hindu , a Buddhist or a seihk called me evil scum, demonic filth or would like to crack my skull open given the opportunity or would like to see me roasted on a fire.


Take all the posts you have slammed Christianity and Christians and replace the Christian words and symbols, books etc with those of the other religions and Ill bet ya come out with some well deserving u2u's from them also moosecow



Not once has a jew a buddhist or muslim etc knocked my door to ask me for money, because their god (the creator of all that there is !) doesn't know how to handle money so needs me to pay for a new roof on their synagogue or mosque .


I think you're a liar, no one is going to ask you to pay to replace the roof on anything. They might ask someone who makes that kinda of money but NO ONE is just going to walk up to a perfect strangers house and say Hey could you fix my roof!



What ??? for trying to defend my way of life and the freedom for me and my family to think independently ?


Think independantly? is that what you call it?



PAY ATTENTION here please, and anyone else who happens to be reading this thread, (especially those who don't have a religious bent as you can use this as an example of the wickedness of xtianity.)


Oh Ill bet they are hearing you loud and clear and so far what you say, says a lot more about you, then it does about them.



Both my children spend a considerable portion of their school day in "isolation" segregated from the rest of their friends and school. They are segregated, not because of the colour of their skin, not because of the shape of their bodies, not because of their nationality. My children suffer the indignity and emotional humiliation, because they are "NOT" labeled Christians.



Ha ha ha ha ha are you STILL harping on this! My GOD MAN if you are that bent on believing that is what this is all about then I'd say it is poetic justice. Since you refuse to lift a damn finger about this same old tripe you were bitching about, what like, a year ago now? and NOT just here but all over the place. You would think many others would have this same problem and I'd have heard about it on the news by now. You would think your attorney, you know the one pissed off parents with real kids, hire to make an injustice right. You would think a real Dad with any cahonies would have yanked their kids out of that school. You would think anyone with as much an axe to grind against Christianity as YOU have ground, wouldn't have put thier independantly thinking children in a school like that to BEGIN WITH!

You would think that a person who has had as much problems with Christians as you say YOU have, would be able to at least PROVE some of these happenings ever really DID, but you don't, we are to assume it is true because YOU said so.



This is only the second week of my sons' attendance at his new school, do you have any idea what it is like to hear about how lonely he feels when he's sent off to sit on his own for no reason other than he should comply to believing, in the invisible man in the sky. The compassionate deity, that would have him stoned to death for misbehaving ?


Ok its time for me to start doing some data mining because i coould swear I heard this same story a long time ago and it was given by you.




I don't talk bad about muslims my friend but I will hold someones feet to the fire ( a particular favorite of xtians whilst they they had positions of authority) when they try to force their delusions upon me or my kids.

Flying horses or men who live inside fish, believe what you will but don't try and force it on me,either directly or by stealth.


HA HA HA HA YOU are hysterical you know that. Hey,, I got an idea, and I know this may sound like a really novel idea but its because no one has thought of it because it never happens like you say .

But here goes, READY?

CALL THE POLICE!

Nest time anyone and I mean anyone holds your feet to fire for not believing what they do. I suggest you lie and say you do. (saves on all that Dr Shoals you'll have to buy later.) Then, when they ARE convinced you are converted, go to a phone and have them arrested for assault and battery, because if you don't, people are going to start thinking you are fulla crap and as everyone you have asked to play close attention will attest by your riveting story, it just sounds to much like our own experiences with those evil bastages. lol

Moocows YOU crack me up!!! HA HA HA




No, I will pretty much have a go at anyone or group that would terrorize or abuse my kids, so don't flatter xtianity into thinking that it is the sole subject of my objection.


You won't even call the damn cops much less have a go against anyone, who the heck you kidding guy HA HA HA HA




Like I have said many times in these threads (which is totally ignored by xtians) believe what you wish and I will always defend your right to do that but keep it in your home or church unless otherwise asked.


Yeah I hate it when those Christian Storm troopers bust in my house and force me to hear all that hell fire and brimstone which is why they have to go to your house because the churchs and their homes are empty, I mean who would even visit such creepy people.

"totally ignored by xtians" hehe gee Ya THINK!




posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by moocowman

Totally amazing isn't it, how an allegedly omnipresent/omnipotent/omniscient, inerrant being, that that created everything that is, was or will ever be, not only required an intermediary to communicate with you but screwed up the first time round.


Whats amazing is that you say all this stuff that he is and then come to the conclusions he "required" an intermediary. Did he require it? Or did he do it himself? You think if someone enlists the aid of a tool, device, conduit or utilility, or subordinate, that somehow invalidates his "Godness" ha ha ha ha You slay me moocows. Umm I guess everytime your kid doesn't listen to the teacher the teacher screwed up?

A Cop tells you not to speed or you'll get a ticket and you say screw you cop and later you get a ticket because the cop screwed up not you.



By the way in relation to dyslexia - Is it common for those of you religious bent to mock the afflicted by your god ?


I don't know, I have dyslexia and I don't see it as a handicap but if you got a problem with me askin, tuff. That never stopped you from insulting anyone.



Do you take time out on sunday to mock people with speech impediments or children born with a cleft palate ?


No BUT you have made it a career to mock people of faith so what would you care if those who do a hell of a lot more than you even do to help your own childs lonelyness, care about anything you can make up about me .



Perhaps some of the priest you spoke of did a little more than allude to certain "sinful"practices and you have chosen to repress the memory? , but your hatred and anger is released in spiteful jibes ?


Making fun of that about me now are ya ? I admitted what the priest did in that confessional and now I have Moocows making fun of my dyslexa and rubbing a post talking about why my Dad did what you don't have the common sense to do with yours.



Yet more evidence of the appalling flip flopping morality from those who set them selves up on pedestals.


Really? You mean their is someone else like you here?



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by DarknessFollows
I wonder about this too. So you also believe the earth is no older than 6000 years? How then would you explain all the prehistorical treasures, over millions of years old?


The Bible doesn't give an exact age on that and why is it people automatically assume we all think that?



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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moocow

hi. i did some research on the age of the earth from a biblical perspective as well. this is what i found:

the earth is much older than we know.
it may have been the habitation of a different species of sentient life before homo sapians, most specifically, a sentient, bipedal, upright species of reptile and amphibian. those species aren't necessarily the cave man type we've been told were the primary inhabitants and that such fossil evidence indicates something else entirely, including the possibility of genetic modifications.

the opening chapters of genesis suggest the earth is in a chaotic ruin at that point, perhaps even covered with ice. later the references to this chaos always suggest ruin. further verses indicate the earth was not created in a chaotic state, thus heavily implying that the bible's main job is recording the human dispensation following the end of a prior dispensation in which the planet was rendered chaotic and in ruin as a result of war or cataclysm.

scientists are now discovering the dispensation of the prior occupants, who i am currently considering to be the species the biblical texts refer to as the "Serpent" or Nachash, and later also referred to as the Seraph.

]

[edit on 15-9-2009 by undo]



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by moocowman

Ok you've persuaded me (for now lol)


WoW! That's got to be a first! lol

Now if I can only persuade you how to avoid all this alleged grief you are having with this goofey school.





By the way what happened to your evidence of 25000 Egyptian troops and chariots at the bottom of the red sea ?


I thought i left the link to that? mmm


Pharaoh's Drowned Army


Confirmation of the actual Exodus route has come from divers finding
coral-encrusted bones and chariot remains in the Gulf of Aqaba

ONE of the most dramatic records of Divine intervention in history is
the account of the Hebrews' exodus from Egypt.

The subsequent drowning of the entire Egyptian army in the Red Sea was
not an insignificant event, and confirmation of this event is
compelling evidence that the Biblical narrative is truly authentic.
Over the years, many divers have searched the Gulf of Suez in vain for
artefacts to verify the Biblical account. But carefully following the
Biblical and historical records of the Exodus brings you to Nuweiba, a
large beach in the Gulf of Aqaba, as Ron Wyatt discovered in 1978.

Repeated dives in depths ranging from 60 to 200 feet deep (18m to
60m), over a stretch of almost 2.5 km, has shown that the chariot
parts are scattered across the sea bed. Artefacts found include
wheels, chariot bodies as well as human and horse bones. Divers have
located wreckage on the Saudi coastline opposite Nuweiba as well.

Since 1987, Ron Wyatt found three 4-spoked gilded chariot wheels.
Coral does not grow on gold, hence the shape has remained very
distinct, although the wood inside the gold veneer has disintegrated
making them too fragile to move. The hope for future expeditions is to
explore the deeper waters with remote cameras or mini-subs. (ABOVE
GILDED CHARIOT WHEEL - Mute witness to the miracle of the crossing of
the Red Sea by the Hebrews 3,500 years ago. Found with metal detector.
*Coral will not grow on gold)




1. Coral-encrusted chariot wheel, filmed off the Saudi coastline,
matches chariot wheels found in Tutankhamen's tomb


2. Mineralised Bone - One of many found at the crossing site (above
centre). This one Tested by the Dept. of Osteology at Stockholm
University, was found to be a human femur, from the right leg of a
165-170cm tall man. It is essentially 'fossilized' i.e. replaced by
minerals and coral, hence cannot be dated by radiocarbon methods,
although this specimen was obviously from antiquity.


3. Chariot wheel and axle covered with coral and up-ended. Exodus
14:25 "And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them
heavily:....."



Solomon's memorial pillars


WHEN Ron Wyatt first visited Nuweiba in 1978, he found a Phoenician
style column lying in the water. Unfortunately the inscriptions had
been eroded away, hence the column's importance was not understood
until 1984, when a second granite column was found on the Saudi
coastline opposite -- identical to the first, except on this one the
inscription was still intact.

In Phoenician letters (Archaic Hebrew), it contained the words:
Mizraim (Egypt); Solomon; Edom; death; Pharaoh; Moses; and Yahweh,
indicating that King Solomon had set up these columns as a memorial to
the miracle of the crossing of the sea. Saudi Arabia does not admit
tourists, and perhaps fearing unauthorized visitors, the Saudi
Authorities have since removed this column, and replaced it with a
flag marker where it once stood.

answers.google.com...


users.netconnect.com.au...


Then finally they have proven to the turkish skeptics what was once thought to be inconclusive in the 1950's, modern science has again corroborated this


ON June 20, 1987, the Turkish Government established the new Noah’s Ark National Park.

This followed a Government commission which confirmed the 10 years of research work on the site by an American, Ronald Wyatt and his colleagues.

Dr. Brandenburger, the photogammetry expert from Ohio State University, became interested. Brandenburger was responsible for discovering the Cuban missile bases during the Kennedy era, and after carefully studying the photo, concluded: "I have no doubt at all, that this object is a ship. In my entire career, I have never seen an object like this on a stereo photo."


In September 1960, the picture was published in LIFE magazine under the heading "Noah's Ark?" That same year a group of Americans accompanied Capt. Durupinar to the site for a day and a half, but superficial investigations found nothing promising. The group conducted some digging, but finally concluded that the site contained "nothing of archaeological interest." However, their verdict was not unanimous.

Seventeen years later, in 1977, Ron Wyatt visited the site. Obtaining official permission, Ron and others over a period of several years conducted more thorough research. Utilising metal detection surveys, subsurface radar scans, laboratory tests and chemical analysis, etc., their findings were quite startling. The evidence was undeniable. ( Above One of the many anchorstones near the site. )

In December 1986, after investigative work by their own scientists, members of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Internal Affairs, and researchers from Ataturk University met and concluded that this was indeed the remains of the legendary ark. In recognition for his work, Ron was invited to be guest of honour at the opening of a new national park on June 20, 1987. In May, 1989, the visitors centre was opened.

users.netconnect.com.au...




[edit on 15-9-2009 by Stylez]



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by Stylez
 





Ha ha ha ha ha are you STILL harping on this! My GOD MAN if you are that bent on believing that is what this is all about then I'd say it is poetic justice. Since you refuse to lift a damn finger about this same old tripe you were bitching about, what like, a year ago now? and NOT just here but all over the place. You would think many others would have this same problem and I'd have heard about it on the news by now. You would think your attorney, you know the one pissed off parents with real kids, hire to make an injustice right. You would think a real Dad with any cahonies would have yanked their kids out of that school. You would think anyone with as much an axe to grind against Christianity as YOU have ground, wouldn't have put thier independantly thinking children in a school like that to BEGIN WITH!



You would have heard on the news ??? My god man this is ATS did you note notice how MSM works?

For your info it would appear that the xtian delusion has such a grip in places of education by a few people in positions of authority, that it is nigh on impossible to find a school not subjected to it.

And for your information yes I am doing something about it, rather than go hunting for a school that does not prescribe to the philosophy of invisible beards in the sky, I find it more appropriate to remove the influence of religion from our schools.

Also for your information although my children are somewhat upset about the discrimination they receive, as as a result from the xtian delusion, they are smart enough to raise issues from within.

By attempting to force its belief upon my kids xtianity has but created 2 opponents whose' critical derision of xtians imposing upon their lives, will no doubt grow exponentially.

Here's some further reading for you in relation to what people like me "are" doing in order to free ourselves from the religious delusion.



The law requires that Religious Education is taught in all maintained schools. For many years it was the only compulsory topic in the curriculum. The legal requirements governing religious education were set out in the Education Reform Act of 1988 and confirmed by the Education Acts of 1996 and 1998.

In all community schools and all foundation and voluntary schools without a religious character (in England and Wales), the content of religious education lessons is controlled by LEA-convened bodies called SACREs (Standing Advisory Committees on Religious Education). Unfortunately, SACREs are completely dominated by religious interests. Meanwhile, faith schools are free to teach their own RE syllabus which is permitted by law to be to be confessional and need not even mention the existence of any other denomination or belief.

Legally, if a parent or guardian requests it, pupils can be withdrawn from RE. However, particularly in faith schools where religious instruction can become cross curricular and creep into other subjects such as Geography and History, withdrawal is wholly impractical.


The NSS would like to see all SACREs dismissed and complete reform of RE. We campaign for a completely new and unbiased Religious Education syllabus that is part of the National Curriculum and properly caters for pupils that are non-religious. Religious groups should have minimal input and any syllabus should be determined by independent academics without a religious agenda.

Secularists particularly object to religion being taught in schools as fact. If there is to be religious education, pupils should be taught about world religions in an unbiased way. They should also be made aware of secular world views such as secular humanism and atheism.

It is only a matter of time my friend, no one wants to prevent you believing what you wish, but we "will" stop those who try to force it upon us.

The churches are emptying the pews now support the troubled mind, welcome to the beginning of an age of reason my friend. We may well have peace on earth when religion is finally put in the cupboard for things that don't work and do harm.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by moocowman]



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


moo,

you have overly defined the limits of your disdain. i think that's part of what is causing the disagreements. for example, i could say, as a woman, that the history of how men have treated women is pretense for the planet being better off without them but this is neither true, humane or reasonable. in fact, not all men are overbearing, chauvinistic, abusive, egotistical murderers who feel everyone must do things their way or its the highway (or the morgue). clearly, the attitude you are clinging to is identical to the one you wish to dispose of in the first place. perhaps it's a case of self loathing, in which i would say, men are awesome. i love my hubby and my sons. don't be so hard on yourself!



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by Stylez
 


Dude, Ron Wyat died 10 years ago the guy was a bloody nurse who turned himself into some charlatan archeologist and claimed to have found everything apart from my odd socks lol, the guy was credible as L Ron Hubbard.

A photo of a coral free wheel and a bone in water floating around the internet is not evidence of 25000 Egyptian troops and chariots let alone the alleged Hebrew exodus. This is evidence of nothing !


Give Zahi Hawass a ring I'm sure he would be polite enough to confirm that the Egyptians did not have Hebrew slaves let alone 2 million.

It's a no brainer really, 2 million people, 600,000 of them armed fighting men do not need to run away from an army of 25000 from a country whose population was barely 3 million.

If you want evidence of an exodus from Egypt you've no further to look than Egypt itself, they recorded a lot of their events.
Unfortunately the exodus in question was that of the inventors of Monotheism from Tell El Armana.
Perhaps a "lingering expulsion" would me more descriptive than a mass exodus but certainly tallies up with the moses story.



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


LOL that was quite droll,I didn't know you were a lady by the way apologies for addressing you as dude.

I consider my ear slapped then lol, no I don't deliberately try to generalize but you have to appreciate that I'm up against a variety of different flavored religions/denominations/cults.

Is it too much to ask do you think, that other people beliefs should not be imposed upon me.

I don't try to impose let's say evolution upon other peoples children, they can just send their kids to whatever religious school they wish instead of a secular school, the same option is denied my kids.

Hey you just changed your avatar as I typed, that and learning your a lady all in one hit has knocked me off balance lol



[edit on 15-9-2009 by moocowman]



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


mwahhaha. lady lady lady...egads, does this mean you won't listen to me anymore?

i'm going to suggest that the problem you are experiencing is perhaps being amplified currently by your disdain for multicultural discomforts, but this is part and parcel of free will - that individuals will be individuals and that many individuals of similar belief tend to adhere to one another as a natural result of comfort in multicultural society...which is otherwise like trying to navigate the council of elrond




posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by Stylez
 


Gee, I don't know, perhaps because christians claim thisbold assumption of mine is based on the bible?
Christian answers.net:
"As in all areas of theology, God allows each believer to decide which side to take on a controversial topic. It must be noted, however, that the Scriptures are emphatically clear on this issue. The billions-of-years timescale estimated by modern scientific theories cannot be harmonized with the literal interpretation of the Bible by resorting to the misguided notion of a day-age."

Or perhaps this source?
www.albatrus.org...

Or maybe this is one of the rare occasions where one doesn't have to take the bible literally? And isn't that eventually what this topic was originally about?



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by DarknessFollows
 


does one example suggest the whole? and for that matter, does more than one example, indicate accuracy? for example, some satanists don't believe in satan at all, yet you do. are you indicative of them or them of you?



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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The subject here is how literally one takes the bible. The question was if taken the bible literally meant believing the earth is no older than 6000 years. Styles asked where I would get that, so I gave some of the sources where I found this information online. Would it be a better argument to you if I posted every single christian resource online that states the bible says the earth is no older than 6000 years? I don't see how that would be relevant here. We are talking about taking the bible literally.



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by DarknessFollows
 


right and not every christian takes it literally, as you have probably guessed by now. and some take it both literally and figuratively. and yet more take it figuratively. and some don't believe it at all but claim they are christian because it says so on their hospital registry. i just wanted to point out the impossibility of expecting others to agree with each other on every point



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by undo
 





i'm going to suggest that the problem you are experiencing is perhaps being amplified currently by your disdain for multicultural discomforts,


Sorry but you lost me a little there, most people disdain discomfort whatever it may be I don't find multicultural particularly discomforting, if anything it's cool to observe how others choose live.

My problem is not a culture being forced upon me but a cult mentality that overwhelmingly prescribes the suspension of critical thinking.

Like I said, I've no objection to others believing what the hell they like whether it be beards in the sky or leprechauns. If that's how the choose to live and think all power to them, as long as they don't try to force it on me which currently, some are attempting to do, the ones I am addressing at the moment happen to be xtian.

Yes, and although you are a woman I will still listen to you lol
this always gives me a laugh -










[edit on 15-9-2009 by moocowman]

[edit on 15-9-2009 by moocowman]



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by octotom
 



The catholic church removed books from the Bible.The catholic
church also gives other Christian churches a bad name.



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by weinerdog
reply to post by DarknessFollows
 


Interesting. When I was 15, I was saved out of the occult by Jesus Christ. You may know him, he's rather famous. He said things like "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." I take it literally. I also know that the bible has answers to all of your questions. The one real question you should ask is, what are you going to do with Jesus? You can't say he was wise, or a great man, or anything like that. You either have to say he was a lunatic or he was telling the truth, because he also said things like "I and the father are one", and "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father but by me." Check out his quotes for yourself. Don't let traditions of your family or former church keep you from the truth. Let Jesus talk to you personally through what he said.




Praise God, someone has some sense on this thread.Star for you!



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Jim Scott
I joined the Mormon church, wasted about 20 years in the lie, and then got out. Now I am a Christian. Mormons are not.


Pet peeve of mine. Mormons are Christians.

I know they like to say they aren't. And Christians like to say they aren't.

But they are.


The mormons teach a different Jesus.My church preaches that Jesus,
through the Holy Spirit,was conceived in a virgin.The mormons teach,
that Jesus was conceived through a sexual relationship between,Mary
and God the Father.
My church preaches,that Jesus was God in flesh.The mormons preach,
that Jesus became a god.My church preaches,that salvation is through
accepting Jesus as your Saviour,not by works.The mormons preach that Jesus had to work out his own salvation.The list goes on...
I attended a mormon church for over 4 years.I know what I'm talking about!



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by sr_robert1
 



I am a Christian! I also did research on UFO's for over twenty years.
I know that the fallen angels,from the Bible, are passing themselves
off as UFO occupants.



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Elmocall911
Let me enlighten you with something very unique and explicit…
According to Luci-ferians, Christianity is a purely pagan and of the luci-ferians doctrines. It is the worship of the SUN or “THE SON IN HEAVEN”, look at the symbolism the LUCE in French means fish which connotes LUCIFER, Christians use the fish as stickers on their cars and other merchandises.
Albert Pike a high degree freemason said this “CHRISTIANITY IS HIDDEN FREEMASONERY”.
Look at the solar motif of the whole Christian movement example the Vatican (FATE OF THE SNAKE) the popes staff SOLAR symbols or the Moon symbols for Islam or Judaism. It’s called Astro-theology.
“SIN” there is none; the SINNER’s are the coterie of Pharaoh of Akhenaton (PROTO-TYPE of Moses according to Sigmund Freud, and a self acclaimed god) of the Hyksos dynasty the original Jews they were not some slaves and wondered about the desert doing swat, they in fact pillaged, murder and completely obliterated knowledge of the ancient world of Egypt. Pharaoh Akhenaton was the first one to preach monotheism, but religion itself was HENOTHEISTIC meaning they chose one lower level god out of a pantheon of gods. The whole idea of sinning was literally introduced by these guys because they know all about it because they have done it. On top of that JEWS go on and on about ZION or in its original tongue “SION” well not too long ago archeologist dug up the place just across the river Nile of the pyramid, shockingly enough they have found “DEATH, FAMIN, MURDER” so much for Zionism .This is just a snippet of the true and untold history of Egypt and the established religions.
Christianity, Islam, Judaism and all the other established religion is NOTHING BUT SCRAPBOOK to truly enlightened people because we understood that what the normal people read is the EXOTERIC VERSION, but we understood it that it has an ESOTORIC foundation and history because it is from the esoteric.
If you truly wish to unlock the secrets within these religious texts then you must study SPIRITUALITY, PSYCHOLOGY (To determine the many personalities within these texts to point out what is real spiritualism, what is manmade), Quantum Theories, Astrology, Astronomy, Alchemy, UFOlogy, Shamanism. Get a very very old dictionary.
Word of wisdom
“GNOSTIC- GOSPEL OF THOMAS” Verse 48
Jesus said, “If two make peace with each other in this house, they will say to the mountain, ‘Move away,’ and it will move away”
I’ll let you figure out what it means, hint: it has nothing to do with the external world


A true christian cannot be a mason.Those who worship lucifer are really
devil worshippers.The masons' god is baphomet.





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