I am a member of the English Defense League

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
If you go to their site you can now purchase one of their very own Black shirts. Whatever next... Jackboots.

www.englishdefenceleague.org...

this makes me feel very uncomfortable. maybe i'm just being too PC and dont really understand the issues fully, but the setting up and joining of such things as an EDL doesn't sit well at all.

With all due respect, looking at your location (and assuming that it's not ironic) I wonder whether you don't really understand some of the issues fully, or perhaps you do, but you're not confronted with them on a daily or even regular basis.

I live in an area that's seen 'race riots' and often fairly large scale incidents that have gone unreported by even local press (my area has a reputation for 'media manipulation') and there are 'no go' areas for white/non-Muslim people, even if politicians say such things don't exist.

All that said, I'm not sure what the OP's issue is with "leftie do-gooders".

I lived in London for ten years, I lived in Tooting Bec, before moving to Hackney, so I've lived in Multi- cultural areas before. i'm not totally wet behind the ears

The EDL are nothing more than a group of fascist football hooligans. It never will be anything more. We've all watched the videos and seen their behaviour.

It's funny to me that this organisation tries to claim it's gripe is with radical Islam, clearly not.

I'm an ANTI-THEIST, and I hate the EDL. Skinhead racist knuckle draggers. Just out to cause trouble.

The irony of organisations like the EDL and the BNP is unreal. They claim to represent English or British values, and merit themselfs on this supposed fact. Yet the majority of Britons and English people oppose the views of the EDL and the BNP.

These people are against Muslims in the country yet claim to support and defend English values. Democracy and freedom I thought were British values.

The EDL fail at upholding these values. Walking around and provacatively chanting 'We Love Israel' over and over again. A rogue country founded on the opposites of Democracy and freedom.

On paper as an organisation they're good. 'Peacefully protesting against militant Islam' their website reads. That's great. The problem is if I went to a recent march with a few western-Muslim friends who wanted to join in and peacefully protest against extremist Islam they'd be met by fellow EDL members with racist and xenophobic abuse. And maybe even physically harmed by the racist hooligans that populate the EDL.

That's the problem. The EDL is populated by fascists and racists, as is the BNP.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

I live in an area that's seen 'race riots' and often fairly large scale incidents that have gone unreported by even local press (my area has a reputation for 'media manipulation') and there are 'no go' areas for white/non-Muslim people, even if politicians say such things don't exist.

All that said, I'm not sure what the OP's issue is with "leftie do-gooders".

No go areas? Rubbish. I'm from Burnley, sure you're familiar, there's plenty of "no-go" areas according to the racists. Strangely, most these no-go areas when asked for them to be identified are areas I commonly frequent and grew up in

There's bad areas in all communities that it's unwise to enter. But racism has little to do with it.

It's usually the sub-consciously racist people who repeat this myths, as they find incidents that they believe backs up their sub-consciously racist views that already existed.

So lets theorise for a moment; A white racist walks through an area of town with a large number of Pakistanis, white racist is jumped by some Pakistani youths, and white racist goes to pub and tells his friend how he was jumped by Pakistani youths, and has a good old whinge about Pakistanis.

Pakistani racist has the roles reversed, gets jumped in a white area, goes back home and has a good old whinge about how he was jumped by some whites, or 'Gorahs'.

Now to both these people, as racists before the incident, they'll use these incidents as some sort of proof or confirmation for their racist beliefs. And their subconscious racism will manifest itself as conscious racism.

So over time the sub conscious white lad will live through many incidents involving Pakistanis, and will pick up on a large amount of negative incidents and attribute these incidents to the whole race of those involved in the incidents.

And while registering every incident with a minority through racist eyes, he'll live his life going through many negative incidents with his fellow white man. The difference is the array of negative incidents(getting attacked, abused, w/e) will not be registered in the same way. They won't be registered as negative incidents by white people. As a racist white person doesn't see a white person as a white person, he sees a white person as a neutral, a normal person no different to himself, there's no need to make distinctions. They'll simply be registered as negative incidents and instances by c*nts, or chavs, or some other deflamatory word for idiots.

The racist Pakistani lives his life in the same way.

And every negative happening involving the opposite race is duelly acknowledged and noted through sub-conscious racist eyes.

Overtime leaving said sub-conscious racist with a catalogue of incidents that in his mind support his flawed racist views. And both their sub-conscious views evolve into conscious racism, both back up their racist views with a library of incidents.

Xenophobia and sexism often works in the same way. With xenophobes and sexists categorising and noting negative incidents involving only their 'opposites'.

Xenophobe beat up by Norwegians, whinges about Norwegians. English xenophobe beaten up by English people, whinges about chavs. Doesn't register incident as English people beating him up, why would he? English people are the 'neutrals'.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself or if people understand me. But I was racist when I was younger, and that's basically how it all works. Once you learn that your sub conscious has been lending itself to racism and leading you to draw moronic conclusions you should be able to shake the dust from your eye lids.

Everything comes from the subconscious. Your brain simply tricks you into rationalising your views.

You racists will grow up soon, don't worry, once you leave your teens you'll be able to think properly.

[edit on 28-9-2009 by KingAmongstMen]

Originally posted by KingAmongstMen
It's usually the sub-consciously racist people who repeat this myths

What, you mean the way you've just repeated the myth that the EDL are racist/fascist countless times in your two posts? You, sir, are severely misinformed. You've either bought into the media's lies about the EDL or you're prejudiced against (mostly) white patriots.

Originally posted by KingAmongstMen

You racists will grow up soon, don't worry, once you leave your teens you'll be able to think properly.

[edit on 28-9-2009 by KingAmongstMen]

Firstly, you seem pretty wise and I'm glad you have shared your views with us which I think have some truth to them.

Secondly, I'm an adult who is not racist or xenophobic, but I can definitely understand where this group is coming from. I guess you have to be on the receiving end to understand their concerns.

How's the Nation of Islam working out for you?

[edit on 29/9/2009 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by KingAmongstMen
It's usually the sub-consciously racist people who repeat this myths

What, you mean the way you've just repeated the myth that the EDL are racist/fascist countless times in your two posts? You, sir, are severely misinformed. You've either bought into the media's lies about the EDL or you're prejudiced against (mostly) white patriots.

You think after all I've typed I have prejudice towards any race? I'm colour blind. And I'm white also, so prejudice against my own people wouldn't make much sense now, would it.

There is NO myths being repeated on my behalf. Infact I'm pretty sure I recognised that on paper the EDL have a decent message. Any organisation against extremist-religion is good in my books. The problem is the organisation is populated by football hooligans and thugs, racists and xenophobes. FASCISTS.

You can go to Youtube right now, run a search of the EDL, and see the type of people protesting at EDL marches.

There's nothing patriotic about embracing hatred and intolerance of those different to yourself. Which is ideally what EDL members going on EVIDENCE, are all about.



But maybe you're right, the countless videos I've watched aswell as countless discussions with actual members of the EDL account for nothing. They're an illusion. Propoganda created by the liberal media I haven't really spoke to an array of EDL members, most of which being fascist. I haven't really seen hours of video footage of fascist EDL members. Obviously CGI.

Like I said, the EDL is populated by racists and intolerant fascists. I've put forward evidence for this, and there's plenty more where it comes from. Instead of direct attacks, how about putting forward evidence contrary to what I'm saying?

I'll continue supporting the greatest Anti-Radical-Islamist of our generation, Sir Christopher Hitchens. You continue supporting a group of fascist knuckle draggers, who are little better than the fundamentalist muslims they pretend they oppose. I say pretend as It's obvious they strongly oppose Muslims as a whole, aswell as any ethnicity assosciated with Islam.

The denial by yourself in regards to the fascist nature of the EDL does nothing but draw suspicion to your own character.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by KingAmongstMen

You racists will grow up soon, don't worry, once you leave your teens you'll be able to think properly.

[edit on 28-9-2009 by KingAmongstMen]

Firstly, you seem pretty wise and I'm glad you have shared your views with us which I think have some truth to them.

Secondly, I'm an adult who is not racist or xenophobic, but I can definitely understand where this group is coming from. I guess you have to be on the receiving end to understand their concerns.

How's the Nation of Islam working out for you?

[edit on 29/9/2009 by Dark Ghost]

I've definately been on the receiving end, believe me. As I said i was raised in the Burnley area. I'm familiar with racism towards me. Physically, verbally. But at the same time most people have, of both races. It's a vicious cycles.

And I live in the Nation of Atheism

reply to post by KingAmongstMen

The EDL fail at upholding these values. Walking around and provacatively chanting 'We Love Israel' over and over again. A rogue country founded on the opposites of Democracy and freedom.

SAY WHAT?

You talk about being about being an adult, and you post with the name "King Amongst Men" and you expect to be taken seriously, and then you post with extremely biased opinions.

The Israeli bashing, along with the hooligan bashing tells us exactly how biased you are.

reply to post by KingAmongstMen


Your continued labelling and stereotyping people does you no favours whatsoever and merely shows you to be as bigotted, if not more, than those you criticise.

I am a skinhead, yet I assure you I am no racist, knuggle dragging idiot.
Yet you would pigeon hole me upon first viewing?
Who is the bigot?

Yet I sympathise with the majority of the aims of EDL, as do the majority of my skinhead, casual and other friends regardless of race!

And you seem to ignore the evidence and proof that the violence that occurred at these legal demonstrations were instigated by the illegal counter protests of Muslims and their SWP / Class War allies.

Facts my friend!
Not the wishful thinking of some PC driven, idyllic nonsense or MSM propoganda.

Unfortunately, the more MSM and the PC Brigade label EDL right-wing racists then those mindeless idiots will go to EDL and thus the message that they are trying to get across will get lost in all the other bollocks that will go with it.
Truly shameful!

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by KingAmongstMen

 

The EDL fail at upholding these values. Walking around and provacatively chanting 'We Love Israel' over and over again. A rogue country founded on the opposites of Democracy and freedom.

SAY WHAT?

You talk about being about being an adult, and you post with the name "King Amongst Men" and you expect to be taken seriously, and then you post with extremely biased opinions.

The Israeli bashing, along with the hooligan bashing tells us exactly how biased you are.

I haven't bashed Israel. I've critiscised the EDL yobs for using Israeli terrorism to try and bait Muslims into violence.

On a serious note, you're using my username to devalue my opinion? I suppose you should be ignored because you have Popeye as an avatar? Give over.

Lastly, did you just try to critic me for 'hooligan bashing'. Sorry, what. Am I meant to praise knuckle draggers?

reply to post by KingAmongstMen


Thanks for proving my point.

Oh yeah, your name and avatar really show a sense of maturity.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by KingAmongstMen

 

Your continued labelling and stereotyping people does you no favours whatsoever and merely shows you to be as bigotted, if not more, than those you criticise.

I am a skinhead, yet I assure you I am no racist, knuggle dragging idiot.
Yet you would pigeon hole me upon first viewing?
Who is the bigot?

Yet I sympathise with the majority of the aims of EDL, as do the majority of my skinhead, casual and other friends regardless of race!

And you seem to ignore the evidence and proof that the violence that occurred at these legal demonstrations were instigated by the illegal counter protests of Muslims and their SWP / Class War allies.

Facts my friend!
Not the wishful thinking of some PC driven, idyllic nonsense or MSM propoganda.

Unfortunately, the more MSM and the PC Brigade label EDL right-wing racists then those mindeless idiots will go to EDL and thus the message that they are trying to get across will get lost in all the other bollocks that will go with it.
Truly shameful!

I don't judge people on appearance. You're assuming that I'd label you on sight, but I've said nothing to suggest or imply that I'm the type of person to draw such irrational conclusions. If anything the opposite.

And I ignore nothing, if there's violence towards peaceful EDL protestors then I'll analyse said incidents fairly. Though this isn't a topic about the conduct of Muslim protestors though, Is it? Nor could I actually care. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

What I have seen is the EDL inciting hatred and trying to bait violence. And as this topic is about the EDL it's relevant for me to bring these incidents up.

The video I posted, are they not the EDL? I'm pretty sure they are.

The EDL is populated with fascist knuckle draggers. I say that as an ANTI-THEIST, a f>cking ANTI-THEIST! You think I want to attack and devalue those who attack and devalue Islam?

You're seriously fooled if you believe the EDLs agenda stops at wanting rid of Extremist-Islam.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by KingAmongstMen

 

Thanks for proving my point.

Oh yeah, your name and avatar really show a sense of maturity.

I didn't suggest it did, I suggested my username is irrelivent, as is my avatar. And yours, for that matter.

Happy to prove your point though. Well done.

King amongst men.

I seriously suggest you do a little research but you start spouting your hate against the EDL.

You seem to have a typical media induced belief that the EDL are somehow akin to the BNP, when in actual fact a lot of them have distanced themselves from them. You seem to believe that they are nothing but 'knuckle dragging skinheads' when in actual fact many of these people are from many walks of life.

Seriously....

and for someone who has an Omar avatar too.. tu tut tut...



[edit on 29-9-2009 by mr-lizard]

reply to post by KingAmongstMen


You are cherry picking items and instances to suit.

The FACTS are that they were peaceful, legal protests.
Of course there was some sloganeering, that's what happens at protests.
But, and it's a MASSIVE but, the protests would have remained peaceful if the UAF and their SWP allies had not ILLEGALLY counter protested, broke through Police cordons and attacked the EDL.
Just who were the 'knuckle draggers'.

This is allegedly a 'free' country.
The EDL does not preach hatred, unlike UAF and their supporters who have insulted our Armed Forces and proposed beheading for all Non-Muslims at their protests!
The EDL is expressing a widepsread fear of Muslim extremism and the racist labelling and stereotyping of any expressions of English and British pride and Nationalism.

Yes, you have been guilty of labelling and stereotyping by calling EDL 'skinhead, knuckle draggers'.
By implication you have implied that all skinheads are racist.
By implication you have implied that all EDL supporters are racist.
Both are totally incorrect.
If that doesn't fit into your pigeon holing of people, well, I suggest you look at yourself, not others abd accept that maybe you are the bigot.

You constantly state that you are an anti-theist.
So what?
That proves nothing.
My experience of Atheists is that they are just as bigotted and dogma ridden as Theists, blindly believing one opinion regardless of any other evidence or arguements.
Me?
I think it's irrelevant and am a devout Agnostic.
Why worry about something that is unprovable until death?

However, back on track, I do recognise that this country is based on both Christian and Pagan values and heritage and has a long tradition of freedom of thought, speech and will.
The complete antithesis of Islam and the UAF and their allies who are actively trying to deny the EDL their rights to have an opinion and to voice it.

The EDL are merely expressing the concerns of the vast majority of people of this country, unfortunately the vast majoity of people in this once great country have become that brainwashed by PC driven nonsense that they feel guilty for rxpressing any concerns of the Islamification of this country, immigration and matters of national pride and heritage.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
King amongst men.

I seriously suggest you do a little research but you start spouting your hate against the EDL.

You seem to have a typical media induced belief that the EDL are somehow akin to the BNP, when in actual fact a lot of them have distanced themselves from them. You seem to believe that they are nothing but 'knuckle dragging skinheads' when in actual fact many of these people are from many walks of life.

Seriously....

and for someone who has an Omar avatar too.. tu tut tut...



[edit on 29-9-2009 by mr-lizard]

The EDL are akin to the BNP. Of course they're distancing themselfs from the BNP. Nazi germany would have distanced itself from the BNP.

And many of the EDL are fascist hooligans. There are a few, however, like you, who'll turn a blind eye to those that make up the EDL.

reply to post by KingAmongstMen


The EDL has Black, Hindu and Sikh members.
Hardly racist!

Your arguements are weak and based in assumptions (king amongst men)

Sorry but a few threads back i was at least arguing with people who could hold their own in a debate without resorting to stereotypes, assumptions and dodgy analogies.

You have proved how wrapped in personal opinion and repetitive parrot-like political correctness does nothing for me.



[edit on 29-9-2009 by mr-lizard]

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by KingAmongstMen

 

The EDL has Black, Hindu and Sikh members.
Hardly racist!

I seem to remember they DO have the backing of the Sikh community, and in many of the videos you can see black and asian members of the community marching with the EDL.

Sadly facts are of little consequence to members like Kingamongstmen. As sadly he seems to have let some one make up his mind for him.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by KingAmongstMen

 

You are cherry picking items and instances to suit.

The FACTS are that they were peaceful, legal protests.
Of course there was some sloganeering, that's what happens at protests.
But, and it's a MASSIVE but, the protests would have remained peaceful if the UAF and their SWP allies had not ILLEGALLY counter protested, broke through Police cordons and attacked the EDL.
Just who were the 'knuckle draggers'.

This is allegedly a 'free' country.
The EDL does not preach hatred, unlike UAF and their supporters who have insulted our Armed Forces and proposed beheading for all Non-Muslims at their protests!
The EDL is expressing a widepsread fear of Muslim extremism and the racist labelling and stereotyping of any expressions of English and British pride and Nationalism.

Yes, you have been guilty of labelling and stereotyping by calling EDL 'skinhead, knuckle draggers'.
By implication you have implied that all skinheads are racist.
By implication you have implied that all EDL supporters are racist.
Both are totally incorrect.
If that doesn't fit into your pigeon holing of people, well, I suggest you look at yourself, not others abd accept that maybe you are the bigot.

You constantly state that you are an anti-theist.
So what?
That proves nothing.
My experience of Atheists is that they are just as bigotted and dogma ridden as Theists, blindly believing one opinion regardless of any other evidence or arguements.
Me?
I think it's irrelevant and am a devout Agnostic.
Why worry about something that is unprovable until death?

However, back on track, I do recognise that this country is based on both Christian and Pagan values and heritage and has a long tradition of freedom of thought, speech and will.
The complete antithesis of Islam and the UAF and their allies who are actively trying to deny the EDL their rights to have an opinion and to voice it.

The EDL are merely expressing the concerns of the vast majority of people of this country, unfortunately the vast majoity of people in this once great country have become that brainwashed by PC driven nonsense that they feel guilty for rxpressing any concerns of the Islamification of this country, immigration and matters of national pride and heritage.

The EDL preaches absolute hatred. Watch the videos. It's evidenced many times over. I've yet to see a peaceful EDL protest without hateful pish. Can you show me evidence of one, please?

And no, I haven't implied that ALL. I've implied that MOST, that the average EDL member is a knuckle dragging fascist. He is. You've provided no evidence to the contrary, I've posted evidence for my views.

Also, agnosticism IS atheism. Maybe you should pick up a book and research what you claim to be. There is absolutely no difference between agnosticism and atheism. Both are the lack of belief in a deity. Both are the same.

The EDL do NOTHING for the cause. Absolutely nothing. They don't enlighten, they don't help in the fight against radical Islam. They do nothing. Being the only voice as you put it(which isn't true by the way) is not a justification of any sort. You could argue the BNP are the only voice against immigration(also not true), but it wouldn't change or deduct from the nature of the BNP and their followers, would it.

I've responded to a good 10 posts now, all of which have been void of any actual evidence to counter my views and evidence put forward.

I'll eagerly wait your video footage of the peaceful EDL marches. The ones void of fascist yobs.