reply to post by smurfy
Sorry, attention was being diverted, I finished up the post rather quickly.
"P4T" is just shorthand for Pilots for Truth. I actually joined, though I don't post there, once I saw the level of discourse. But, I should not
speak of other forums.
There are various other 'Truther'...groups, within their own niches of expertise, "Architects & Engineers for Truth", "Patriots for Truth" (I
think...names and labels may vary, but you get the idea).
Point is, in my opinion, they represent an extremely tiny minority, even within the designated fields.
However, addressing Capt. Wittenberg's opinion: He has his, I have mine.
Contextually, it seems to me that sometimes a statement or an expressed opinion is made, and recorded for posterity, and the person involved may later
change their mind --- but, the nature of our world today is, once it's out there, it never gets taken back.
I'm trying to say that, given Capt. Wittenberg's position as claimed, when he claimed it, he may not have been aware of the simulator training the
Saudi terrorist pilots received, training to become familiar, if not expert of course, in the operation of JUST ENOUGH of the functions of what is
called the Flight Director, and of course, the Autopilot. (They are integrated together as a system, termed "Autoflight" sometimes).
He tossed out pilot-specific terms, like "Lateral Navigation" and "Vertical Navigation"...abbreviated 'LNAV' and 'VNAV' to us....and hinted
that no one could possibly understand them, and how to operate the controls.
Well, the suicide pilots were not novices, three had Commercial licenses. SO, those 'basics' of flying are covered. Next, just orientation in the
cockpit layout, what to look for, and where to find it. After that, it's really just using a computer...pushing buttons, knowing how to program what
you want to achieve.
Heck, there are hobbyists who have entire websites devoted to this stuff as well, "armchair wannabe" pilots you could say. SO, me sitting here
telling you has no real 'authority', since I may have seen it on the web...except, I can go into far greater detail, as a bona fide
what you'll see on the web. It's the sort of thing, though, that's far easier to show, than to write about.
I see you're in bonny Ireland (I have an Irish name, I do!)
There is a TV show, I suppose it's shown all over nowadays, called "Mythbusters"...they just did a test to see if the two guys could land a
jetliner. Without help? No, they both crashed. BUT, they were successful with help just from a guy on the "radio", who could not see them, but
had to rely on what they told him, and he (the pilot) then told them what to do. Of course, they used a simulator.
With help, they both landed successfully.
SO....suicide terrorists? Don't have to be able to take-off or land, just the easiest part...steer.
As I said, I could show just about anybody. Could take an hour, maybe less, maybe more. Depends on a person's ability to retain the information.
edit t add:
Because It had been awhile since I'd seen that video snippet.
A few things I didn't mention yet, that shows how misinformed of the DETAILS Capt Wittenberg is:
He talks about "High speed-high banked" turns. Nothing seen in the two recovered SSFDRs (Flight Recorders --- aka 'black boxes') shows what he
mentions. Even Hani Hanjour, in AA 77 (the worst of the four, it is said...HE did not have a Commercial license).
HE is the one who was a very poor pilot, in the sense that when he tried to rent the Cessna 172 that was mentioned, he was deemed inadequate. I've
mentioned this before, in other theads. When you wish to rent an airplane, it isn't like a car rental...you have to fly with a Flight Instructor
who "Checks" you. Hanjour was either very rusty, had never flown the 172 before, or was really poor at basic landings. IF he had never flown the
172, it does 'feel' different in landings, there are variations between all airplanes. ALSO, and I have been there, back in my youth as a Flight
Instructor, sometimes you just don't like someone...AND if they fly poorly, you won't sign them off. It's YOUR butt on the line if you do, and
they bend the airplane.
Anyway, Hanjour, in AA 77, is pointed at by "Truthers" as having done the "impossible"...which, in reality, is to have simply made a normal turn
of a nearly 360 degree circle, at normal bank angles that never exceeded about 30 degrees, while descending at a normal rate and at a normal airspeed.
It's on the Flight Recorder visual re-creation videos.
Unfortunately for Capt. Wittenberg, NONE of the four hijacked airplanes were flown in the manner he seems to think they were. He mentioned "five to
seven Gs"??? Well, yes, IF they had flown that way, YES there would have been structural damage to the airplanes before impact. In fact, at over 5
Gs, most people begin to black out.
The other favorite claim made is about the speeds. Again, the AA 77 video shows airspeeds quite normal, until the final seconds when the speed
builds up in a shallow dive. Same with some videos of UA 175, as it approaches the Towers. We don't have the Recorders, but in the videos you see
the change in altitude. At last split second, UA 175 is banked a little harder to the left, looks like he was about 35 degrees, maybe 37. ALL
perfectly acceptable, and witin the airplane's limits.
UA 93 was the most aerobatic, I suppose...but it crashed less than a second after going inverted.
[edit on 10 September 2009 by weedwhacker]