Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

reply to post by bsbray11


i was actually talking about myself and anyone else who lets a dig fly, not you specifically.
i mean, it's hard to discuss in a civil tone, when both sides are hurling insults, but that it is nearly impossible not to hurl insults.
yeah?

Originally posted by spacevisitor
I did that, because if I am correct, blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer did not mention anything about what happened to those also quite important and pretty big parts in that particular statement, but if you think that I was wrong, that those parts did not changed into something that was closer to a liquid than a solid mass as blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer claimed as has happened with those wings, can you tell me then what has happened with those parts?

I told you I agreed with him. What I am trying to say is that there shouldn't be assumptions if facts are presented. In order to turn a conspiracy theory into fact, assumptions must not be involved within an argument. Its either factual or its a theory. That is why all 9/11 conspiracy theories are bogus.

Fact: Allyn E. Kilsheimer is a blast expert, and he was the first one in his field of study on scene. Correct.

Fact:

"It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

What people are telling me is that this expert's eye, ears, fingers, and experiences were wrong. My question is, "Why would I need to read further?" Why do I believe him? He never once mentioned, "I assumed".

Everyone in this forum who was at the Pentagon scene and is an expert in Structural Engineering please raise your hand.

Fact: No one here can. No one can debunk Mr. Kilsheimer.

9/11 was NOT a conspiracy. It was an actual terrorist attack.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by billybob
i was actually talking about myself and anyone else who lets a dig fly, not you specifically.
i mean, it's hard to discuss in a civil tone, when both sides are hurling insults, but that it is nearly impossible not to hurl insults.
yeah?

Oh, getting off topic and yet so much to the very heart of hundreds of pages of threads at the same time! I consider you a very mature person BillyBob and so in particular my complaint is not with you.

There is discussing the issues, intellectually, and there is insulting each other, animalistically. I don't really think the two can possibly co-exist. Yes it is hard not to get caught up in it, and I have engaged in it myself, but that is not the point. I've moved back from 9/11 and use it as a divisive issue with which to engage people. But the real problem is not 9/11, but this divisive and spiteful attitude we will all readily take against each other, for no particularly good reason. Everyone that posts here is suffering on a daily basis, and there are an infinite number of ways to suffer, but everyone here suffers and a small evil part of each person here likes to see others suffer as well. It's that part of each of us that is no different than what happened on 9/11, because it all happens for the same reasons. We insult each other and speak hatefully to each other because we are full of suffering and want to "share the wealth." Someone who is perfectly content and accepting of themselves and their situation has no reason to get emotionally attached and insult another person; it's not as if there is a LOGICAL reason to insult another person, is there? Not in our heads when we do it, No.

What I ultimately have to say to anyone here is not about 9/11, it is about hate.

Don't post as if you hate the person you are responding to, or even as if they are stupider than you or any different at all.

It's said that communication happens between equals. This forum is the best example I can think of. Because quality discussion only happens when we at least PRETEND that we think of each other as equals. The rest of the time, I don't even want to read what miserable dribble someone has directed at another person. I don't care to know how miserable you are, and how much joy you take in harrassing another, or how cunning or clever you can be in your hatefulness. All that accomplishes is making me feel sick to my stomach as well. Keep your suffering to yourself or find other outlets for it. Don't give it life. If you are hateful, it doesn't matter whether 9/11 was an inside job or not; you are completely lost here.

Originally posted by Neo_Serf
Brilliant work, fellow truther Pathos~ Although I don't think you have to be so sneaky to convince us, the facts speak for themselves.

Not a chance. I have always thought the original story was true; thus, my opinion has not changed from the start. I disagree that there is a conspiracy behind 9/11. You guys are looking for the truth, but you are denying the truth. 9/11 was only a terrorist attack, and there was NO conspiracy.

It is grotesque to think that many people would believe that a conspiracy occurred. Its unethical. I am not searching for the truth. I know the truth based upon what the media, news clips, and administration had said. Anything else is foolishness.

Originally posted by Neo_Serf
Ok I get it now! This thread is a false flag attack by a truther! Make a dummy account (and I do mean a dummy account), make a complete ### out of oneself, hurl baseless insults around and generally come off as a complete baffoon...which makes all the reasonable truth seeking folk come off as geniuses by comparison and sways casual opinion away from the bunk OS!

You can't handle a rational opposition, so your trying to discredit me as an individual. It will not work.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by Pathos

Not a chance. I have always thought the original story was true; thus, my opinion has not changed from the start. I disagree that there is a conspiracy behind 9/11. You guys are looking for the truth, but you are denying the truth. 9/11 was only a terrorist attack, and there was NO conspiracy.

If you always thought the original story was true you are wrong. The 'original story' has been changed officially so many times now I've given up trying to keep count.

Things going down this way will keep things hidden, and in status quo.. but you keep on thinking that way ;P

There is enough evidence to settle this secret, but most of the 'good stuff' is redacted. Sorry national security ;/


Peace!
A

[edit on 7-9-2009 by 7redorbs]

Concluding that 9/11 is a Government Conspiracy is Grotesque

Well I haven't seen anyone cite the expert opinion of Popular Mechanics theory for years! It was a good attempt in the early days to push the "official story"

Pathos, since that Popular Mechanics article was published so much more new documented evidence has come to light.

The fact is thermite residue(long suspected by early truthers) WAS found in 4 independent dust samples from Ground Zero

View the PDF file here

and here is some info substantiating the thermite reaction,



and here are some people who also question the "officail version" of what happened.

lCandidate for New Jersey governor calls for second 911 commision

and some more...........

More calls for accountability

That should keep you busy for a while, and please look at the info with an open mind.

Originally posted by 7redorbs


I am not searching for the truth. I know the truth based upon what the media, news clips, and administration had said. Anything else is foolishness.

Hey, I think you are on to something 7redorbs. This guy is a fellow truther! This was a VERY obvious transparent statement. Sharp eye

You're cover was blown. Fail. BTW, is this a class experiment? School just started again didn't it?

[edit on 7-9-2009 by FlySolo]

Please watch: "Loose Change" "Improbable Collapse" or any of the other good documentaries that raise a lot of questions about the "offical Story" of 9-11. Until you are educated then discussing these topics are useless. You need to further your education. I'm not exactly sure what happened on Sept. 11th 2001, but you should turn off Fox News and look at the facts for yourself

reply to post by washingtonsghost



You consider Loose Change a good documentary? Must be a Michael Moore fan......

Sorry, I will stick to the evidence and the truth rather than the lunacy of Loose Change.

Originally posted by Pathos

It is grotesque to think that many people would believe that a conspiracy occurred. Its unethical. I am not searching for the truth. I know the truth based upon what the media, news clips, and administration had said. Anything else is foolishness.



[edit on 7-9-2009 by Pathos]

And again you go saying that people who do not believe the official story are "grotesque" and questioning the official story is "unethical".

Phatos, have you talked to any of the members who don't believe the official story in other threads other than 9/11? I suggest that you do; you'll find that you might have many things in common with these "unethical" and "grotesque" individuals than you think.

also, saying that you actually believe EVERYTHING that the mass media gives you is really, really foolish. You claim to have studied U.S. history; you should be VERY aware of the fact that the government and the mass media lies.

reply to post by bsbray11


awesome post. couldn't agree more.
(except for the part about me being mature. i don't wanna grow up, i'm a toys'r'us kid)

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by MightyAl

 

Finally, IF there was a planned CD....dontcha thnk the ones doing it would have made the FIRST Tower to be hit fall first?? I mean, that would make more sense. The fact that they fell the way they did points AWAY from planned CD, doesn't it?

Very good observation!

The answer lies in the fact that the first plane HIT THE WRONG BUILDING! That is why the second plane had to come full circle around, exceeding the software limits, and nearly missed it's target.

If you study the time lines on 911 and reverse the impacts - ie first plane had hit the other building and vice/versa, the buildings would have collapsed in the proper sequence and stood for the same amount of time before collapsing.

Originally posted by Psychoses

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by MightyAl

 

Finally, IF there was a planned CD....dontcha thnk the ones doing it would have made the FIRST Tower to be hit fall first?? I mean, that would make more sense. The fact that they fell the way they did points AWAY from planned CD, doesn't it?

Very good observation!

The answer lies in the fact that the first plane HIT THE WRONG BUILDING! That is why the second plane had to come full circle around, exceeding the software limits, and nearly missed it's target.

If you study the time lines on 911 and reverse the impacts - ie first plane had hit the other building and vice/versa, the buildings would have collapsed in the proper sequence and stood for the same amount of time before collapsing.

This is an interesting theory, I've never heard this one before.

So for those who are in belief that conspiracy theorists regarding 911 are wrong, let this be a prime example of how "our" information is derived.

Anti-truthers, for a lack of a better word, receive their information only once. Maybe twice. MSM and perhaps a follow-up from Popular Mechanics periodically to keep the official story "fresh".

Truthers, read something about it from a networked source and subsequently it leads to something else and so on. It eventually becomes viral and the news is spread. Each time compounding the original tip or information into a noticeable growing web of deception.

Granted, not all of these probable theories are 100% accurate. For those who believe the official story, they leave it at that. No investigation, case closed in their minds. However, the investigation process done by truthers leave no stone unturned.

Let this be an example. I will begin to investigate about the software program on commercial 757 and 756 planes built by Boeing. If this is true, then it would have been impossible to exceed the 1.5 g permitted to reach the 5-7 as reported. Unless done remotely.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by FlySolo]