IMO - This is *Evil* - (Warning - Subliminal Photos/Messages)

reply to post by Fader Creep


Interesting video you've created there. It has had quite an array of effects on people.

I watched about half of Dirt for sale, but I had to quickly run out, but I intend to finish watching it; as well as the other videos on your page.

Thanks for signing up here and posting, perhaps you might answer some of Silo's questions? She seems to have had a VERY negative reaction to the piece, perhaps you can give her some sort of background on what the meaning of the video is, or at least what feelings you were trying to instill in the people watching it.

Anyhow, cool video, although I must say I am a bit wary of watching your other videos, because I do believe that subliminals used in such a way as the pig in the chair, that is too fast to be registered by the concious mind, (as opposed to the ones in the beggining, that can be easily seen with quickly play/pause) can have major effects on ones subconcious.

Whether the effects are positive or negative, well that is left mostly up to the creator, and a small amount to do with how certain people react. I don't know you, so it'd be hard for me to trust watching a video wherethere's a high chance of subliminal frames that are only picked up by my subconcious. Thesemay have adverese effects. Don't take that last line as an insult .btw.

It's like in the movie theatre previews. I mean we all know how thirsty and hungry the "Let's go down to the Lobby" song makes us. Why? Well subliminals. It's why whenever I go to the theatres, I look away from the screen at any food/beverage commercials during the previews.

Subconcious subliminals DO work.

Again thanks for coming, hope you stick around. Star for your efforts as well.

The tongue looks like a rodent of some kind. Kind of reminded me of the baby alien in the Alien movie! Yuk!!

another take that I got, was the tongue is phallic in nature. OK, If you want me to be real blunt, It gave me the feeling that this sick pig was raping his victims and then devouring them!!

His whole demeanor screams of sexual perversion! From his expression to the way the tongue is moving!! Plain GROSS!!

The video did not affect me at all. I mean, I did not notice a couple of the pictures, until I looked at the stills, but overall, I just saw some odd video. Lots of those on YouTube. I was not left creeped out or dwelling on the music or scenes. That is a whole 'nother topic - why people are affected and why others are not.

The video is called "Set Your Piggies Free / Swine Flu" Obviously his own parody of Swine Flu epidemic. I think people may be looking way too deep into this

I did check out his web page, which has a link to his "blog". This is where it directs to:

FaderCreep Blog - Mental Illness and Creativity: Creative minds: the links between mental illness and creativity Interesting read and may have something to do with the videos.

His other videos are just the same. They make you go "huh" and watch again. Id be interested to hear how they affect some here who were affected by the piggy.


[edit on 5-9-2009 by inked up]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Very good catch mopus!
Especially the chemical compound shot!
Someone can make similar graphical presentations with this or similar backgrounds and air them while talking about swine flu at the news then the audience would be getting the message that pork meat+swine flu=match.

They could be flashing this chem compound shot for instance in a context of a message talking about pork is bad for you. When repeated enough after some time they air news or sensationalist news (without substance) talking about the swine flu and rumors unsubstantiated of course about swine flu and pork meat then keep flashing this chem compound shot to enhance your feeling of danger, then keep doing this with other images or meanings and push it even further until they have some case of consumer behavior which are going to make news about this and maybe throw a similar subliminal "package" in it. This is how they should be able to control us. It makes sense IMO.

There could be hundreds of subliminal infected footage on the airwaves or at internet and every one of them in a group of images transmitting a specific sequence of information and targeting specific population and each project has its own agenda.

Maybe this is the main reasons why everyone in the big corps hires especially the media asks for and buys gallup-polls - polls - surveys of the public opinion for literally about everything from what color of their car is to if they watch the news while eating and which hour of the dfay they watch news or sit to eat in front of a tv.

You know that this chem compound shot would give you an uneasy feeling while hearing about news about swine flu and you get this shot airing even in miniseconds. The fuse would be an unsubstantiated story about "pigs and swine flu"=match. Who would this going to serve? An attack against the poultry industry, the pork meat. A food giant against the smaller folk who deal with livestock.
Maybe they do this all the time. Maybe the "uneasy" feeling we get while we hear certain news is because at same time we are conditioned at some kind of subliminal projection. Both words (sounds) and images have to played. If they have studied this long enough then they have a powerful tool and we cannot prove anything in an living environment saturated with sound and pictures every given time of the day.

I hear most people saying that "I had this uneasy feeling" for this and that.. etc. Well maybe we are being conditioned to have those, and the "uneasiness" is the only warning mechanism our brain has to tell us something is not right, but maybe our brain response could be related and triggered by certain picture and auditory sequences. A way that our brains might be telling us that an amount of information has passed unchecked maybe especially if the information was transmitted in a way to create a complete meaning or sentence but the time length of every message was very short. Our brain might be accustomed to receive messages and sequences of information that are meaningful and the brain may also correlate other facts with the reception like how much time has passed fro the whole message to be received from start to stop. If it finds out that has received a meaningful message of significance, how would our subconscious react if the time period of the message is not matching the norm? Would it create a feeling?

Good thread! On the general meaning for this thread.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by spacebot]

To do this all IMO they have to know to whom they showing whatever they are showing, timing and audience identity is critical. Also the context in which the messages might be shown is critical. Maybe the target an issue they wait until they get a level of public reaction then use a trigger issue or sensation from what created or assisted in the old reaction and they proceed even further, gradually altering the audience sensation about a given news. I wouldn't even be surprised that even global events would be generated from somene who can control the media and other entities with the sole purpose of kick starting a brainwash session with the audience, in order to influence them about certain subjects like security or peace or war or anything.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by spacebot]

reply to post by EnlightenUp

Does your predispostion imply that those finding something other than "evil" are "evil" themselves? There is no suggestion of false choices here but since you are the OP I suspect it is on topic to hear your opinions of those opining.

Absolutely not.
And I never implied any such thing either.
Not in my thread, or, if you noticed, my response to those who felt nothing or the posters who found it amusing, etc.

I find it extremely interesting - the people who have a negative response to the *pig* and those who don’t.

Again, it’s an *experiment* (if you will) on how some people perceive things, and others do not.
Pretty simple actually.

It is neither wrong nor right. Evil is not a face.

Yes, it is unethical and wring to use subliminal messages (in this case photos) to try and manipulate a viewing audience.
And that is not just my opinion.

If you missed the many references to the underlying photos (the subliminals) throughout the threads, that is what I was referring to.

As for Predisposition I’m not sure why you would use such a term.
No predisposition at all.

In my opinion it is evil.
And yes, a face, IMO, can be evil.

It isn’t the first time I’ve *seen* evil, but I hope it will be my last.

peace

reply to post by Fader Creep


Fader! You made it!

Wow, thanks man. I was so in hopes you would.

I hope the people who wanted to ask you questions step up and do so now.

As for me, how about shedding some insight on your *Let your piggies free* film, and the subliminals?

Thanks again so much for coming over.
gracie

reply to post by inked up

His other videos are just the same. They make you go "huh" and watch again. Id be interested to hear how they affect some here who were affected by the piggy.

One of the first things I did before linking Fader Creep’s link to his sight here on ATS was check out the other films.

To answer your question - no - they didn’t effect me at all in the same was as the *Piggies* film.

The other films are really incredible pieces of work (art) in my opinion, and, I’m looking forward to viewing them again.

So again - we’re back to one film, and one pig, that’s provoked a wide range of reaction from ATS’ers.

VERY interesting stuff that!

peace

reply to post by inked up


I believe you can't extract meaning from a still shot from a cinematic movie about the whole movie, its subject, the general context, plot, actors, etc especially if this one shot is not very indicative. Same has to go with any part of a supposed audio and picture stream that has to convey a certain meaning if played. Probably is more complicated if you want to hide this stream inside a for instance episode of a favorite tv program or, a football game or, or some random or specific time span of a broadcast of a news tv channel. Logically subliminal conditioning (if this is what this thread has discovered and this is what is happening in our day and age) takes some time to both be effectively transmitted and to be successful. It might even be that it has to be repeated after some time again and again, tied at some major event (generate feelings or be linked with some specific feelings of the audience, which themselves might be created by another correlated but seemingly unrelated event or action) It might even be that for subliminal conditioning to be effective, someone has to use a progression of stimulations either it be audio, visual, a general common idea to force public consensus, or all of them together. Human brain tends to forget. Maybe some our weaknesses are becoming useful for once.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by spacebot]

Forgot for which reason i posted this reply.
Here it goes:
I believe that if subliminal techniques exist then the time they have to affect an audience may vary, from the kind of audience or the individual to the kind of message or the method the message has to be fed in order to be effective.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by spacebot]

reply to post by spacebot

To do this all IMO they have to know to whom they showing whatever they are showing, timing and audience identity is critical.

Great post!

Your quote above I want to comment on if I may quickly.

Because of my extreme reaction to the film I wanted to ask a cross section of society how they felt.

What a better way then present it to ATS who is full or the best and worse of all of us and a great bunch of people from all over the world.

Then, a few pages into the thread a reader Saurus found the subliminals (I for one had not and probably would not if it hadn’t of been brought to my attention).

So, add another facet to the film.

While I agree, if marketers of commercials and films need to know their audience to use correct subliminal messages to get the reaction they want, what fascinates me about this film is I don’t believe Fader Creep had any one group of people in mind to *effect* when he put together this film.

Which makes it all the more fascinating when we hear the reaction from viewers and readers of the thread.

Great post again, thank you!

peace

reply to post by paxnatus

another take that I got, was the tongue is phallic in nature. OK, If you want me to be real blunt, It gave me the feeling that this sick pig was raping his victims and then devouring them!!
His whole demeanor screams of sexual perversion! From his expression to the way the tongue is moving!! Plain GROSS!!

Maybe that’s why I find it *evil*.
I haven't been able to pin point why, but, your reaction and analysis makes a great deal of sense to me.

Now, just for you, (well and me) to feel a bit better! Take a look at this.

I just love this clip and it does lighten things up quite well after viewing that evil pig.
Just another example of how we’re effected individually and singularly by *input*.

Anyway, here, feel better!



By the way.
Watch the reaction in the crowd to the dancers in this video.

Now, think of the reaction these people would have had if the *pig* video had played on a wide screen in the same train station!

I hate to think of it!!!

Thanks for your post, really.

peace

[edit on 6-9-2009 by silo13]

I see what you mean.
Yes the "evil pig" certainly would seem very strange in the context of being presented in this train station. People would wait for another message explaining to them why the pig would be used. If the pig was something associated with a product a known corporation preferably international and well known they would associate it with their products. If it was Mickey mouse for instance and this cartoon was associated with Coca Cola then that would be the obvious meaning, but again they would have missed the interpretation in the context of why it should have to be a mouse and not anything else and why should it be Coca Cola, but they wouldn't give much thought to it because we live in a reality that we are bombarded by supposedly "non meaningful" information every day since people just use extraordinary means to catch other peoples attention. Mickey mouse is here to grad our attention and so is the pig. Coca Cola is here for selling its things. Any other subliminal messages if existing and are in effect to cause a reaction or used as a part of a message, would seem meaningless because they are blanketed by messages beyond any suspicion, in my example by Mickey Mouse and intention of Coca Cola advertising its products.

I didn't have any reaction at the original dancing pig video. I understand that maybe the director of the original theater dance probably tried to convey a message about some people that are in the spot light (enormous in size and appear to dance with a lady) rich and powerful (dressed with top hat and using a walking cane) as being hoarding wealth (fat) have no feelings (pigs) and have malicious intentions (teeth) and are hungry for more (big tongue licking teeth) Although ti don't understand why this piece of old movie was inserted in the Sesame street clip associated with Flu and little kids puppets. Maybe vaccinate your kids while at school (kindergarten, lots of puppets there for kids to play) from the man eating (deadly flu virus) "pig" (name of the disease) Although this looks like an "right in your face" message and i doubt it will work subconsciously, by itself.
I did have a reaction as soon as I noticed the post with the frame about a pig figure pig and the chemical composition among other things. This seemed to me like a news item that would be flashed very quickly in order for a message to be conveyed. The pig image was out of place with the chemical reaction therefore it had to either link those two different meanings together or be a part of a sequence of messages creating a whole subliminal 'sentence". Pig was at center of image (subliminally this is the key position for a display IMO in which this frame has to be "deciphered" by the unsuspected brain)
A drawing easily recognizable in the peripheral as a chemical reaction and a pig icon in the center flashing various times instantly.

I understand that any techniques of subliminal coercion would take a long time to be effective and also have to be repeated and target specific audience. it is not something that might work in an instant. if for some reason we get an immediate reaction of something and we also get a full group of feelings associated with it, it might probably be an isolated message intended in bringing already existing "messages" in to effect.
That is what I believe.

Keep on! Nice and interesting thread!
Sorry for the lengthy posts.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by spacebot]

[edit on 6-9-2009 by spacebot]

reply to post by spacebot

it is not something that might work in an instant. if for some reason we get an immediate reaction of something and we also get a full group of feelings associated with it, it might probably be an isolated message intended in bringing already existing "messages" in to effect.

So then by your reasoning the deep effect the original video of the pig had (has) on me, and others, has nothing to do with the subliminal pics hidden under the view?

peace

reply to post by silo13


Hey Silo, thank you for that video it was beautiful!! Such a unique an interesting thread.

Here is something, I am coming to understand Evil for the most part is Objective. There are times though when it can be very subjective. In other words we could say "one mans trash is another man's treasure" that is unless we are blatantly staring at a big pile of manure.

I was effected in such a negative way because I am visually moved by images. With that said, I don't watch a lot of violence in movies or on television. Most of us have been desensitized by what we see because in our society we are constantly bombarded with a barrage of stimuli everyday.

I think what we feel and how we react depends heavily on our mood before being exposed to it.

Sincerely,
Pax

I honestly cannot know.
The face of the pig resembling human features and the overall displaying human characteristics would though and I don't know how other parts of the video might have played a significance.

Here is a story that many of the viewers might have read and subconsciously made a correlation with the "dancing pig".
Back in 2005 when ATS was at its prime.

The relevant thread:

Beast of Gevaudan: Demon wolf or what? Your thoughts!!!

and the relevant wiki:

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by silo13


I do not get an "evil" vibe from it.
Crepy, yes. evil, no.
--cheers

reply to post by paxnatus

I was effected in such a negative way because I am visually moved by images.

That would make sense, also for me.

Though I’ve been involved in may instance others might find revolting and inhumane (animal slaughter for example) - my mind set, is what *saves* me, and, I’m not effected by what I *see* in those instances.

And as I’m also a photographer I’m constantly looking at everything through a view lens.

But, when *viewing* said *evil pig* - I just get bombarded with revulsion, so, I’m not really sure the correlation I’m making, sorry.

I’m still processing all you’ve pointed out.

Thank you again
peace



[edit on 6-9-2009 by silo13]

reply to post by spacebot

Thanks for posting the thread relevant thread.
Most of the links are gone - not working I mean, but, I'll look into it more and get back to you.
Once again thank you for your participation here.

peace

reply to post by keltdruid65

I do not get an "evil" vibe from it.
Creepy, yes. evil, no.
--cheers

OK cool!
Noted and thanks for giving your input.

Now if you want I'd really like to know what your definition of *Creepy* is, that is if you're game for spending a little more time and thought here.

peace

Originally I thought that in the links of the posted thread there was the full story of these strange (understatement) occurrences. I never followed the links before posting it, I just searched for the term within ATS and as it was expected I found it. ATS.
Although it seems it is a watered down version of the events while the version is much scarier and I initially thought that the youtube video resembled an distinctive element of this story as I know it and as I thought that it was posted orginaly in full detail in those links.I would be updating the said thread with more info as I know it from an old article in a non English paranormal magazine.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by spacebot]

reply to post by Fader Creep


Hey glad you stopped by.

Just a quick comment on the article you posted in your blog, Creativity and insanity.

The shrinks would love to be able to connect creativity to actual named mental illnesses, in the end all mental illness that is not chemical in nature amounts to uncommon connections between neurons that differ from the norm, it could be said that if you deviate in those connections to the 1% you are insane. It would also be true that in order to be a genius you'd have to be in the 1% range in regards to society and how you think as well.

Attempts to label a person who is capable of thinking in ways others can't as schizoid or pseudo autistic or Manic is not actually representative of what is going on, some people form connections and associations that are destructive, other form connections and associations that are useful and productive...

even classification of most mental illnesses as specific names imho distracts from the analysis of the thought patterns and learned behaviors and associations that comprises an individual.

the common practice of western health systems is to classify by symptom.

i.e. things that cause paranoia are this things that cause depression are this.

the reality however is underneath a unique individual with a very complex hormonal and endocrine system possessing a unique set of experiences and mental image and behavior associations that lead to, depression or paranoia as examples.

Creativity being creative is simply, being a creative personality and a unique set of circumstances, experiences and biology causes each individual creative personality just as a unique set of experiences biology etc causes what they label schizophrenia

The Two are no more related to each other than the reasons two people fall in love with their respective partners are the same. You can Label both as "being in love" but in reality it's two entirely separate things,the reason no one can ever actually define Love, is the same reason there is no ability to find a single causation for schizophrenia nor is there a root disease or even commonality involved in being "creative"

I sort of chuckled when they said that Artists/Poets showed a high instance of depression suicide... because by coincidence the same could be said about falling in Love.

The shrinks are busy looking for answers as if... there is a virus involved a Causation something they can give a name too.

But the only reason they can name mental illnesses is because a mind distress can only manifest X numbers of symptoms.

Until they get rid of labels and address people psychiatry will always be a failed science.

The danger in what they do is that it would allow for Creativity to be called a mental illness and label it by associative symptoms, In the end you could do the exact same thing to LOVE or to SPIRITUALITY

By the shrinks line of thinking, every person who can create, who manifests extraordinary talent, who falls in Love or feels the presence of God is actually mentally ill

And that is a long and dangerous path to dehumanizing the best of us