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Pepsi And The Zionist Plot
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No disrespect Proty, but your Rome divide and conquer running plot falls apart when we start looking at other places outside their sphere of
influence. China, Japan, India, Australia, Pacifica, etc
Power, technologically advanced cultures, territory wars, long standing historical differences - they're all there.
I really hadn’t planned want to get into a diatribe on the Muslim world and their thinking. I find it ugly and distasteful. Much of what I think and extemporize with is taken from friends who spent their lives in the Middle East.
A quick note, Christians were once 15% of the Middle East, it’s down to a low fraction now, with most movement to Israel. So much for tolearance.
You worked out your grand interpretation of the unfolding of the West with an insistence on the Muslims and their intolerance somehow being rationalized away.
Friend from India tell me parallel stories. They have the largest Muslim population outside of Indonesia. Note how Pakistan fares compared to India.
What did happen? This is hyper-reductionist, I know.
The combination of oil wealth and the confrontation with their relative impotence in the marching pageant of history set off an attitude that has been cultivated primarily by the Saudis. The royal Saud family need the lunatic extremist Wahhabist sanction to keep on the throne. For a couple decades we’ve seen billions poured into a massive Wahhabist campaign of programming the flock. An really malign hate-filled religious interpretation that has taken hold with it’s appeal to elevated self-esteem and purpose.
It has it’s own genesis outside the religion. The Saudis and the other states so lucky with the oil Easter eggs genuinely consider it a gift from Allah and a sign for them to rise and conquer the Infidels and the perfidious Jews as mandated in the Koran.
Interesting historical observation most are shocked by and will reject. The Koran itself is demonstrably an attempt to copy the magic thing the Jews seemed to have going way back in the 7th Century. Mohammed and kin weren’t quite sure how it worked, but they could see having a Holy book with neat one-liners and platitudes that sounded inspiring really worked on getting the befuddled masses in line on board and side. They tried to break down the formula, the business model. Create a hierarchy, a priesthood with funny outfits, lots and lots of prayer, wonky rituals, holy worship buildings – and you had something going.
And it could be said the old inferiority complex, an unfortunate poor opinion of themselves motivated them to get it going.
America’s own Joe Smith found the trick worked a charm even a millenium later. The Angel Moroni showed him a holy book buried in upstate New York that was the basis of the Mormon Church. Same pattern of growth. Now 3.5 million strong, Not bad for less than 200 years.
The Jews and particularly the Israelis are guilt of endless transgressions and bad diplomacy. But for the most part, they have their act together, are more capable, more progressive than the natives they choose to drop in on. Critically, in this is lost too often, they like to work and like challenges. This separates them in more ways than you might think. They have the inherent Protestant Work Ethic that also once made Britain what it is or was.
Work is fun, work with your noodle is how you spend every minute of your day. Solving financial concerns by creating instruments that somehow get someone else’s money out their pocket into yours, figuring out ways to do things more efficiently, trying to improve and refine your own behaviour, new approaches to your fellow men, etc. Most important, keep up on the advances in science, of philosophy, of politics, of progress.
The Muslims resented progress. Thought it was the work of Satan,. The single biggest reason they watched the world pass them by. Check out the number of patents applied for sometime. A few hundred from the entire Middle East. Staggering numbers in the tens of thousands from everywhere else with a claim to civility. And yes, those problematic Jews are responsible for a big chunk of them.
China and Japan are historical enemies. Let’s make sure to throw in Korea who have suffered the most with conquests, genocides, colonization, etc. The Koreans particularly have a live and let live approach.. Their response to those demonstrably superior in techno power, warring, ways of governance, cultural infrastructures, etc – has been “how can I get in on all this?” They copy what works, add their own refinements, and get with what is a better program. The best way to beat your enemy is to beat him at his own game. They’re doing that. That’s the smart way.
The Muslim response to the West could have between similar. Take what’s good, hold your nose, try to get along, learn from and exploit someone’s else’s learned sophistication.
There is no explanation, no excuse for what we see in the Middle East today. It was an impoverished backwater a century ago, now it’s a much richer backwater. A few impressive buildings jutting out of the desert, gold plated mosques, no real universities. ‘They haven’t figured out agriculture – or it’s too much work. They cut down all the trees and forgot to plant more. There were forests once.
Outside of Bierut nothing you can really call a proper city. (I rely on the opinion of my friend Gassan, whose been to all of them, and uses the expression s**hole to describe the rest.)
And lets quickly skim by the worst, most repressive and primitive attitudes, instead of falling to the wayside, are now being enforced by laws – and strictly.
The return of the Caliphate is the drugged pipedream of the Saudis and their affiliates and now the Mullahs in Iran. It is about as realistic as us returning to the Days of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. Nobility and Chivalry for all.
The treatment of women as breeding cattle contributes their stagnation. For better or worse Westernized women helped humanized their men. Reading all those romantic novels. They softened up their rough edges, gave them motivation for achievement - to become strutting peacocks who they could selectively choose to pluck and bear their babies with. But the stipulation was they had to have achievements under their belt to get into the running. That usually translates to brainpower in the West.
I sort of hate going on like this.
I really don’t want to slam the entire Muslim world and in the process appear to be trying to exonerate the Jews.
For sure, there are wonderful Muslims thoroughout the world, throughout history. They contributed to our collective advancements.
But unfortunately their main stompin’ ground, the Middle East, is not an inspired or inspiring neck of the woods. It’s not exactly filled with people who like people. Those have left.
Bad break in evolutionary development. Vast unearned wealth too suddenly to get accultured to. In a way it may be turning out to be more of a curse than a blessing.
The leaders get to play out their role playing fantast games. The people suffer and are asked to fie for useless causes. The suicide vest is patented.
Were it up to me I’d tell the Jews to get the Hell outta there as quick as possible. When you’re among people who feed on really ugly delusions, who get off on destruction, you can’t apply logic and reason.
I don’t see it as Rome pulling strings, a master plot to pit one group against another, or any complex grand scheme,
It’s more like buying a house in a really bad neighourhood. Because your grandparents once lived there.
Never be nostalgic is the hard lesson.
Mike
[edit on 5-9-2009 by mmiichael]
Power, technologically advanced cultures, territory wars, long standing historical differences - they're all there.
I really hadn’t planned want to get into a diatribe on the Muslim world and their thinking. I find it ugly and distasteful. Much of what I think and extemporize with is taken from friends who spent their lives in the Middle East.
A quick note, Christians were once 15% of the Middle East, it’s down to a low fraction now, with most movement to Israel. So much for tolearance.
You worked out your grand interpretation of the unfolding of the West with an insistence on the Muslims and their intolerance somehow being rationalized away.
Friend from India tell me parallel stories. They have the largest Muslim population outside of Indonesia. Note how Pakistan fares compared to India.
What did happen? This is hyper-reductionist, I know.
The combination of oil wealth and the confrontation with their relative impotence in the marching pageant of history set off an attitude that has been cultivated primarily by the Saudis. The royal Saud family need the lunatic extremist Wahhabist sanction to keep on the throne. For a couple decades we’ve seen billions poured into a massive Wahhabist campaign of programming the flock. An really malign hate-filled religious interpretation that has taken hold with it’s appeal to elevated self-esteem and purpose.
It has it’s own genesis outside the religion. The Saudis and the other states so lucky with the oil Easter eggs genuinely consider it a gift from Allah and a sign for them to rise and conquer the Infidels and the perfidious Jews as mandated in the Koran.
Interesting historical observation most are shocked by and will reject. The Koran itself is demonstrably an attempt to copy the magic thing the Jews seemed to have going way back in the 7th Century. Mohammed and kin weren’t quite sure how it worked, but they could see having a Holy book with neat one-liners and platitudes that sounded inspiring really worked on getting the befuddled masses in line on board and side. They tried to break down the formula, the business model. Create a hierarchy, a priesthood with funny outfits, lots and lots of prayer, wonky rituals, holy worship buildings – and you had something going.
And it could be said the old inferiority complex, an unfortunate poor opinion of themselves motivated them to get it going.
America’s own Joe Smith found the trick worked a charm even a millenium later. The Angel Moroni showed him a holy book buried in upstate New York that was the basis of the Mormon Church. Same pattern of growth. Now 3.5 million strong, Not bad for less than 200 years.
The Jews and particularly the Israelis are guilt of endless transgressions and bad diplomacy. But for the most part, they have their act together, are more capable, more progressive than the natives they choose to drop in on. Critically, in this is lost too often, they like to work and like challenges. This separates them in more ways than you might think. They have the inherent Protestant Work Ethic that also once made Britain what it is or was.
Work is fun, work with your noodle is how you spend every minute of your day. Solving financial concerns by creating instruments that somehow get someone else’s money out their pocket into yours, figuring out ways to do things more efficiently, trying to improve and refine your own behaviour, new approaches to your fellow men, etc. Most important, keep up on the advances in science, of philosophy, of politics, of progress.
The Muslims resented progress. Thought it was the work of Satan,. The single biggest reason they watched the world pass them by. Check out the number of patents applied for sometime. A few hundred from the entire Middle East. Staggering numbers in the tens of thousands from everywhere else with a claim to civility. And yes, those problematic Jews are responsible for a big chunk of them.
China and Japan are historical enemies. Let’s make sure to throw in Korea who have suffered the most with conquests, genocides, colonization, etc. The Koreans particularly have a live and let live approach.. Their response to those demonstrably superior in techno power, warring, ways of governance, cultural infrastructures, etc – has been “how can I get in on all this?” They copy what works, add their own refinements, and get with what is a better program. The best way to beat your enemy is to beat him at his own game. They’re doing that. That’s the smart way.
The Muslim response to the West could have between similar. Take what’s good, hold your nose, try to get along, learn from and exploit someone’s else’s learned sophistication.
There is no explanation, no excuse for what we see in the Middle East today. It was an impoverished backwater a century ago, now it’s a much richer backwater. A few impressive buildings jutting out of the desert, gold plated mosques, no real universities. ‘They haven’t figured out agriculture – or it’s too much work. They cut down all the trees and forgot to plant more. There were forests once.
Outside of Bierut nothing you can really call a proper city. (I rely on the opinion of my friend Gassan, whose been to all of them, and uses the expression s**hole to describe the rest.)
And lets quickly skim by the worst, most repressive and primitive attitudes, instead of falling to the wayside, are now being enforced by laws – and strictly.
The return of the Caliphate is the drugged pipedream of the Saudis and their affiliates and now the Mullahs in Iran. It is about as realistic as us returning to the Days of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. Nobility and Chivalry for all.
The treatment of women as breeding cattle contributes their stagnation. For better or worse Westernized women helped humanized their men. Reading all those romantic novels. They softened up their rough edges, gave them motivation for achievement - to become strutting peacocks who they could selectively choose to pluck and bear their babies with. But the stipulation was they had to have achievements under their belt to get into the running. That usually translates to brainpower in the West.
I sort of hate going on like this.
I really don’t want to slam the entire Muslim world and in the process appear to be trying to exonerate the Jews.
For sure, there are wonderful Muslims thoroughout the world, throughout history. They contributed to our collective advancements.
But unfortunately their main stompin’ ground, the Middle East, is not an inspired or inspiring neck of the woods. It’s not exactly filled with people who like people. Those have left.
Bad break in evolutionary development. Vast unearned wealth too suddenly to get accultured to. In a way it may be turning out to be more of a curse than a blessing.
The leaders get to play out their role playing fantast games. The people suffer and are asked to fie for useless causes. The suicide vest is patented.
Were it up to me I’d tell the Jews to get the Hell outta there as quick as possible. When you’re among people who feed on really ugly delusions, who get off on destruction, you can’t apply logic and reason.
I don’t see it as Rome pulling strings, a master plot to pit one group against another, or any complex grand scheme,
It’s more like buying a house in a really bad neighourhood. Because your grandparents once lived there.
Never be nostalgic is the hard lesson.
Mike
[edit on 5-9-2009 by mmiichael]
reply to post by mmiichael
Ah you are under the impression that these nations are independent entities.
India conquered by England (aka Holy Roman Empire)
Japan conquered by the United States (aka Caesar’s 13th Legion, Roman Empire, sponsored by the sole surviving State Seborga)
China conquered by England (aka Holy Roman Empire)
Australia conquered by England established as penal colony (aka Holy Roman Empire)
Now let’s look at the most suspect name on your list…China, AKA Wal-Mart. England had a long contract to run China through Hong Kong until it expired, and the American Oligarchs stepped in to assume control afterwards as is often the case. Good cop/bad cop I like to call it. Lets look at 1970’s China and it’s Ambassador from the United States. George W. Bush, Sr., when does China explode becoming and become America’s manufacturing arm and bank? After the British Lease expires, and George H.W. Bush, Jr. comes to power and China is where any nation has to look for its greatest threat because it is 100% under the control of the Oligarchs and is the model New World Order Roman State. No deity for the people to seek any allegiance or salvation to, utterly devoid of religion, in a hybrid totalitarian state that mixes elements of communism, fascism and capitalism in a highly efficient, easily managed, cheap to maintain society of workers and managers.
When the Western Nations finish fighting the Eastern Islamic Nations and the Soviets over the fate of Israel it will be China that steps into the void to mop up all the remaining elements.
Bank of China…Rothschild owned Michael.
Rome is about a system of agreements, contractual agreements, between parties who communicate their full and respective powers primarily only to one another when entering into contractual agreements.
Seriously, look at the Treaty of Ghent ending the War of 1812. Look how the eight delegates from the United States sign it, all with identical Latin Titles. Research what the Title means and then discard it’s meaning under Templar Law which established the Title and go back a little further because the number of signers 8 is key to the puzzle, it was not accident or coincidence that 8 people with identical title signed it on behalf of the United States, because before the Templars modified the meaning of the title to what it is most commonly construed to mean when less than 8 signers are involved or more than 8 signers involved, it means something entirely different when it’s a precise body of 8. In that combination it identifies them as ‘Those who know where the Roman Scepter and the Holy Roman Sepulchral reside’. Instead of meaning ‘in place of seal’ which it would mean in other combinations it instead identifies them as the Ruling Council of Seborga, those that know where the Roman Scepter and the Holy Roman Sepulchral reside, established in 842 under Contract that allowed the still independent principality of Seborga to not only reject or accept any religion or Icon but to maintain an Island Nation for it’s self defense, and I have a sneaking suspicion you can find your Ark of the Covenant there but don’t be surprised if once opened the Covenant is with Rome and not with G-d.
Rome is in the Law that establishes all the treaties between these nations, Rome in the Contracts that these nations use to securely and safely conduct business with one another that is what allows for the International Interests you speak of such as Bankers and Conglomerates to do business. This is what Rome is about, tying it all together, uniform laws, uniform customs, and one great big planet all under the same system.
The 842 page Treaty of Ghent actually even makes specific reference to portions of the agreement negotiated and under seal by secret committee of Congress. Wouldn’t you love to know what’s in those!
I sure would.
Here is the other great thing about Rome’s mode of conquest and governance…you can’t fight against it because you can’t even identify it, or admit that it actually rules! It’s brilliant really, but when you reverse engineer all the treaties, all the accords, all the titles, in reverse chronological order it all leads back to the same place, it all leads back to Rome in a paper trail that at no time eliminates Rome or mitigates Rome but simply establishes one fictitious name entity after another.
It’s just like Rothschild said Michael, I care not one wit about a man’s politics let me control their money and I can control their state, and once again if you look at history honestly this proves true.
The world uses a common system of money control that in fact Rothschild controls most of along with a few other lesser oligarchs and it’s all done contractually under the same standardized and unified Roman laws on Rome’s behalf.
Now I apologize if my take on history seems to minimize or diminish anything culturally or spiritually important to anyone that sure is not my intent in simply trying to absolutely identify the truth.
While I might seem to make light or tarnish Hebrew biblical history, actual Habiru history itself is far more fascinating and in my humble opinion much more impressive too. They started accomplishing some very significant things thousands of years before biblical history starts creating a fictitious entity for them. That is something I would be loathe to trivialize because they did have a very broad and very effective impact on a very far reaching portion of the world, so please don’t think as I peel away the biblical layer and the myths to look at the facts that it’s a condemnation or indictment it’s simply a passion and a love as well as an admiration for what really happened and how and why.
It’s very hard to wrap your mind around, but the reality is how these faith based religions got their toe holds to begin with was as a solution to things that the average person had a very hard time wrapping their minds around and many people still have a hard time wrapping their minds around. Mommy why am I here, how did I get born, am I going to die, what’s going to happen to me when I die, and on and on it goes.
I am not favoring the Muslims over the Christians or the Jews Michael. It doesn’t matter to me who is most retractable or why they are the most retractable because the reality is the argument is all over the same thing. What did said G-d really want and mean, what pleases said G-d, what kind of person defies said G-d and offends said G-d and what should their punishment be.
That’s just illogical period, personally if I had a question on this I would wait for said G-d to personally enlighten me, and since said G-d is just too busy to bother, I am too busy as well to bother worrying about what said G-d wants because any good manager inspects what he expects and this particular G-d is well, no offense, just a lousy manager!
So regardless of who is causing the trouble in relation to said G-d the problem is that any of the parties think what ever said G-d supposedly said is important when said G-d is obviously a terrible communicator if said G-d even exists, all parties who really need a G-d should find a more responsive and interactive one, rather then fighting over what an unresponsive non-interactive one wants.
This would be logic, and I would expect real leaders whether they are Pharisees, Emperors, Emirs, Kings, or Queens to be not just capable of logic but the most logical tacks on the board. So since they are leaders I could also easily see them using the vagueness of said G-d that the masses want to willingly follow to their advantage.
Now I am not against spirituality of a private and contemplative nature that doesn’t impose anyone’s said G-d on me but sadly this does not seem to be what goes on with ALL the followers of this particular said G-d.
Whether someone is a little guilty of this or a lot guilty of this makes them guilty of it all the same.
China is in fact the real danger because it represents the perfect model for New World Order efficiency. They have been tinkering with it, and they have been building it, and they build nothing and enrich nothing they do not control.
The Roman plan which is basically the Holy Bible establishes a one world totalitarian government through an Armageddon like battle over Israel, two is company and three is a crowd and it’s a play both sides against the middle. That’s why it was set up to be a trilogy and I have no doubt while some of the Hapiri were establishing the Judean religion some of them were for the same purpose of the over all plan establishing the Islamic religion while over in Rome they were establishing the Christian religion, to play both sides against the middle.
In Rome’s plan the Christians, Jews, and Muslims will all fight over Israel, all seeking to usher in their own unique Golden Age, but in reality all they will be doing is eliminating each other so a Chinese like system of Governance can be imposed on the entire planet, a faithless hybrid of Communism, Fascism and Capitalism comprised of a three class society, workers, managers, owners/rulers.
The trap is vilifying anyone group more than the other, that’s where the divide and conquer comes in to play Michael. Sure you can blame it all on Islam…still gets you the same net effect. Sure you could blame it all on Christianity…still gets you the same net effect. Sure you could blame it all on Judaism…still gets you the same net effect…you could even blame it all on communism…still gets you the same net effect.
I blame it all on Rome
Still gets you the same net effect, unless people rebel against Rome’s plan.
Ah you are under the impression that these nations are independent entities.
India conquered by England (aka Holy Roman Empire)
Japan conquered by the United States (aka Caesar’s 13th Legion, Roman Empire, sponsored by the sole surviving State Seborga)
China conquered by England (aka Holy Roman Empire)
Australia conquered by England established as penal colony (aka Holy Roman Empire)
Now let’s look at the most suspect name on your list…China, AKA Wal-Mart. England had a long contract to run China through Hong Kong until it expired, and the American Oligarchs stepped in to assume control afterwards as is often the case. Good cop/bad cop I like to call it. Lets look at 1970’s China and it’s Ambassador from the United States. George W. Bush, Sr., when does China explode becoming and become America’s manufacturing arm and bank? After the British Lease expires, and George H.W. Bush, Jr. comes to power and China is where any nation has to look for its greatest threat because it is 100% under the control of the Oligarchs and is the model New World Order Roman State. No deity for the people to seek any allegiance or salvation to, utterly devoid of religion, in a hybrid totalitarian state that mixes elements of communism, fascism and capitalism in a highly efficient, easily managed, cheap to maintain society of workers and managers.
When the Western Nations finish fighting the Eastern Islamic Nations and the Soviets over the fate of Israel it will be China that steps into the void to mop up all the remaining elements.
Bank of China…Rothschild owned Michael.
Rome is about a system of agreements, contractual agreements, between parties who communicate their full and respective powers primarily only to one another when entering into contractual agreements.
Seriously, look at the Treaty of Ghent ending the War of 1812. Look how the eight delegates from the United States sign it, all with identical Latin Titles. Research what the Title means and then discard it’s meaning under Templar Law which established the Title and go back a little further because the number of signers 8 is key to the puzzle, it was not accident or coincidence that 8 people with identical title signed it on behalf of the United States, because before the Templars modified the meaning of the title to what it is most commonly construed to mean when less than 8 signers are involved or more than 8 signers involved, it means something entirely different when it’s a precise body of 8. In that combination it identifies them as ‘Those who know where the Roman Scepter and the Holy Roman Sepulchral reside’. Instead of meaning ‘in place of seal’ which it would mean in other combinations it instead identifies them as the Ruling Council of Seborga, those that know where the Roman Scepter and the Holy Roman Sepulchral reside, established in 842 under Contract that allowed the still independent principality of Seborga to not only reject or accept any religion or Icon but to maintain an Island Nation for it’s self defense, and I have a sneaking suspicion you can find your Ark of the Covenant there but don’t be surprised if once opened the Covenant is with Rome and not with G-d.
Rome is in the Law that establishes all the treaties between these nations, Rome in the Contracts that these nations use to securely and safely conduct business with one another that is what allows for the International Interests you speak of such as Bankers and Conglomerates to do business. This is what Rome is about, tying it all together, uniform laws, uniform customs, and one great big planet all under the same system.
The 842 page Treaty of Ghent actually even makes specific reference to portions of the agreement negotiated and under seal by secret committee of Congress. Wouldn’t you love to know what’s in those!
I sure would.
Here is the other great thing about Rome’s mode of conquest and governance…you can’t fight against it because you can’t even identify it, or admit that it actually rules! It’s brilliant really, but when you reverse engineer all the treaties, all the accords, all the titles, in reverse chronological order it all leads back to the same place, it all leads back to Rome in a paper trail that at no time eliminates Rome or mitigates Rome but simply establishes one fictitious name entity after another.
It’s just like Rothschild said Michael, I care not one wit about a man’s politics let me control their money and I can control their state, and once again if you look at history honestly this proves true.
The world uses a common system of money control that in fact Rothschild controls most of along with a few other lesser oligarchs and it’s all done contractually under the same standardized and unified Roman laws on Rome’s behalf.
Now I apologize if my take on history seems to minimize or diminish anything culturally or spiritually important to anyone that sure is not my intent in simply trying to absolutely identify the truth.
While I might seem to make light or tarnish Hebrew biblical history, actual Habiru history itself is far more fascinating and in my humble opinion much more impressive too. They started accomplishing some very significant things thousands of years before biblical history starts creating a fictitious entity for them. That is something I would be loathe to trivialize because they did have a very broad and very effective impact on a very far reaching portion of the world, so please don’t think as I peel away the biblical layer and the myths to look at the facts that it’s a condemnation or indictment it’s simply a passion and a love as well as an admiration for what really happened and how and why.
It’s very hard to wrap your mind around, but the reality is how these faith based religions got their toe holds to begin with was as a solution to things that the average person had a very hard time wrapping their minds around and many people still have a hard time wrapping their minds around. Mommy why am I here, how did I get born, am I going to die, what’s going to happen to me when I die, and on and on it goes.
I am not favoring the Muslims over the Christians or the Jews Michael. It doesn’t matter to me who is most retractable or why they are the most retractable because the reality is the argument is all over the same thing. What did said G-d really want and mean, what pleases said G-d, what kind of person defies said G-d and offends said G-d and what should their punishment be.
That’s just illogical period, personally if I had a question on this I would wait for said G-d to personally enlighten me, and since said G-d is just too busy to bother, I am too busy as well to bother worrying about what said G-d wants because any good manager inspects what he expects and this particular G-d is well, no offense, just a lousy manager!
So regardless of who is causing the trouble in relation to said G-d the problem is that any of the parties think what ever said G-d supposedly said is important when said G-d is obviously a terrible communicator if said G-d even exists, all parties who really need a G-d should find a more responsive and interactive one, rather then fighting over what an unresponsive non-interactive one wants.
This would be logic, and I would expect real leaders whether they are Pharisees, Emperors, Emirs, Kings, or Queens to be not just capable of logic but the most logical tacks on the board. So since they are leaders I could also easily see them using the vagueness of said G-d that the masses want to willingly follow to their advantage.
Now I am not against spirituality of a private and contemplative nature that doesn’t impose anyone’s said G-d on me but sadly this does not seem to be what goes on with ALL the followers of this particular said G-d.
Whether someone is a little guilty of this or a lot guilty of this makes them guilty of it all the same.
China is in fact the real danger because it represents the perfect model for New World Order efficiency. They have been tinkering with it, and they have been building it, and they build nothing and enrich nothing they do not control.
The Roman plan which is basically the Holy Bible establishes a one world totalitarian government through an Armageddon like battle over Israel, two is company and three is a crowd and it’s a play both sides against the middle. That’s why it was set up to be a trilogy and I have no doubt while some of the Hapiri were establishing the Judean religion some of them were for the same purpose of the over all plan establishing the Islamic religion while over in Rome they were establishing the Christian religion, to play both sides against the middle.
In Rome’s plan the Christians, Jews, and Muslims will all fight over Israel, all seeking to usher in their own unique Golden Age, but in reality all they will be doing is eliminating each other so a Chinese like system of Governance can be imposed on the entire planet, a faithless hybrid of Communism, Fascism and Capitalism comprised of a three class society, workers, managers, owners/rulers.
The trap is vilifying anyone group more than the other, that’s where the divide and conquer comes in to play Michael. Sure you can blame it all on Islam…still gets you the same net effect. Sure you could blame it all on Christianity…still gets you the same net effect. Sure you could blame it all on Judaism…still gets you the same net effect…you could even blame it all on communism…still gets you the same net effect.
I blame it all on Rome
Still gets you the same net effect, unless people rebel against Rome’s plan.
This is where it get’s tricky and this is where we will likely always be at odds despite our friendship and that is in my humble opinion, winning
Israel, is the same as loosing Israel. For the sole reason that ultimately that victory is what kicks in all the factors that ultimately lead to
kicking in the final part of Rome’s plan, Armageddon to stamp out the three religions and usher in a one world government.
Everyone walks away from it, Rome is defeated, everyone fights over it, Rome wins!
Gooooo Rome!
So you see Michael it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, it has nothing to do with taking sides, it has nothing to do with making anyone of the three a scapegoat and by your own admission the Saudis are playing it like the devil with a fiddle just like the Papacy is just like the Zionist Hierarchy is, and at that highest level, they are all playing it the way they are for the same goal and outcome.
Heck the Saudi Royals already cashed out months ago and converted their Dollar reserves to Gold. That should be telling you something right there.
As always Michael it’s the laity that gets to suffer, no matter how righteous they might think they are, pious or correct, they get to suffer, and the leaders get rich and walk away.
I bear no one involved any malice what so ever, the definition of a person is an Actor Wearing a Mask, they are simply all playing out their roles.
But understand Michael there is a script. All three groups are following it, and I am convinced all three groups are following it to their doom and demise.
Israel and Jerusalem was just the prize they were all set up to fight over. They do, they are, they will, go figure huh.
It doesn’t matter what it means to any of the three or the importance they attach to it, what matters is all three attach an importance to it and are prepared and wanting and willing to fight for and over it.
As a Master of myself, I can only be a Master of myself by not wanting or desiring anything that rules or compels me.
None of these people have Mastered themselves, they all covet something, they are all willing to perform and do things to have it, even kill.
Wow!
Call me crazy, call me demented, just don’t call me late for dinner!
Rome’s fine hand is everywhere and the more you look for it, the more you are going to spot it.
Everyone walks away from it, Rome is defeated, everyone fights over it, Rome wins!
Gooooo Rome!
So you see Michael it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, it has nothing to do with taking sides, it has nothing to do with making anyone of the three a scapegoat and by your own admission the Saudis are playing it like the devil with a fiddle just like the Papacy is just like the Zionist Hierarchy is, and at that highest level, they are all playing it the way they are for the same goal and outcome.
Heck the Saudi Royals already cashed out months ago and converted their Dollar reserves to Gold. That should be telling you something right there.
As always Michael it’s the laity that gets to suffer, no matter how righteous they might think they are, pious or correct, they get to suffer, and the leaders get rich and walk away.
I bear no one involved any malice what so ever, the definition of a person is an Actor Wearing a Mask, they are simply all playing out their roles.
But understand Michael there is a script. All three groups are following it, and I am convinced all three groups are following it to their doom and demise.
Israel and Jerusalem was just the prize they were all set up to fight over. They do, they are, they will, go figure huh.
It doesn’t matter what it means to any of the three or the importance they attach to it, what matters is all three attach an importance to it and are prepared and wanting and willing to fight for and over it.
As a Master of myself, I can only be a Master of myself by not wanting or desiring anything that rules or compels me.
None of these people have Mastered themselves, they all covet something, they are all willing to perform and do things to have it, even kill.
Wow!
Call me crazy, call me demented, just don’t call me late for dinner!
Rome’s fine hand is everywhere and the more you look for it, the more you are going to spot it.
WTF is this? Mail order Communist/Jewish Pepsi retail assistants?
Originally posted by elo100 Вераника Акимова: плену девушка перед веб камерой host01.web.officelive.com...
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I suspect I'd not make a good N American: I'll go hungry before I eat franchised fast food & I dont like popcorn much either. Ah well...
I think you're right about greed not being stamped out. Personally I believe it to be a mental illness of the OCD variety, brought on when, for some reason, the natural fear of being without gets overstimulated somehow. The neural pathways associated with acquisitive behaviour get ingrained so that the person is trapped in an inappropriate response to many different stimuli.
Rather than being stamped out, as it were, I believe that the direction of history is obvious: from earliest times power & wealth have slowly but surely been increasingly democratised. There are reactionary hiccoughs now & then, but the tide of history washes them away. Eventually, if humans survive, regardless of how uber-rich the richest are, the poor will be rich enough that the gap will be meaningless to most, as they will have pretty much whatever they want anyway.
Of course the pointless conflicts over resources needed only for obsolete technology will have to cease before that day arrives & the corporations will do anything to resist. Still, reactionaries are literally their own worst enemies, because if 1 thing beyond all others is certain, it is change.
1 day the greedy will stand out like a sore thumb. They will be pitied & given therapy...
Yeah, well I smoke & enjoy it so, if I bought coke, I'd be taking it in 2 orifices @once, which, being male, would tend to preclude standard kissing...
Still I love coke! I don't mind it if I am getting kissed when I am getting screwed.
I suspect I'd not make a good N American: I'll go hungry before I eat franchised fast food & I dont like popcorn much either. Ah well...
I think you're right about greed not being stamped out. Personally I believe it to be a mental illness of the OCD variety, brought on when, for some reason, the natural fear of being without gets overstimulated somehow. The neural pathways associated with acquisitive behaviour get ingrained so that the person is trapped in an inappropriate response to many different stimuli.
Rather than being stamped out, as it were, I believe that the direction of history is obvious: from earliest times power & wealth have slowly but surely been increasingly democratised. There are reactionary hiccoughs now & then, but the tide of history washes them away. Eventually, if humans survive, regardless of how uber-rich the richest are, the poor will be rich enough that the gap will be meaningless to most, as they will have pretty much whatever they want anyway.
Of course the pointless conflicts over resources needed only for obsolete technology will have to cease before that day arrives & the corporations will do anything to resist. Still, reactionaries are literally their own worst enemies, because if 1 thing beyond all others is certain, it is change.
1 day the greedy will stand out like a sore thumb. They will be pitied & given therapy...
reply to post by Grossac
Correct! pepsi is for Pepsin and cola is for Cola Nuts, just like coca is for COCAINE and cola is for Cola Nuts! Coke used to advertise how it 'refreshes' and such due to small amounts of coc aine!
Definitely not, that would be India by far.
Correct! pepsi is for Pepsin and cola is for Cola Nuts, just like coca is for COCAINE and cola is for Cola Nuts! Coke used to advertise how it 'refreshes' and such due to small amounts of coc aine!
Originally posted by finemanm
Egypt is perhaps Israel's closest partner in the Middle East.
Definitely not, that would be India by far.
reply to ProtoplasmicTraveller
I value your input greatly, Proty. That I reply beyond small talk level should be indicative. I once sent you a friendly U2U but you never even opened it. Indicative.
I sense being right and being appreciated for your expositions may be more important to you than discovering, even though you adamantly claim otherwise.
There actually is something even more valuable than learning. It’s unlearning. I love finding out I’ve been wrong. It means one less impediment to where I’m going.
To me the Rome machination perspective is a very creative way to reconcile the need to find a grand scheme responsible for the irrationality of a vastly complex world. But in the final analysis, assigning a group of villains pulling strings is an interesting attempt to assemble a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle and only having 50 pieces to play with.
Rather than further putting forward personal observations on issues related to those disgusting Pepsi-swilling Zionists, I tracked down an article that is a bit dated but relevant to the conversation:
M
[edit on 6-9-2009 by mmiichael]
I value your input greatly, Proty. That I reply beyond small talk level should be indicative. I once sent you a friendly U2U but you never even opened it. Indicative.
I sense being right and being appreciated for your expositions may be more important to you than discovering, even though you adamantly claim otherwise.
There actually is something even more valuable than learning. It’s unlearning. I love finding out I’ve been wrong. It means one less impediment to where I’m going.
To me the Rome machination perspective is a very creative way to reconcile the need to find a grand scheme responsible for the irrationality of a vastly complex world. But in the final analysis, assigning a group of villains pulling strings is an interesting attempt to assemble a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle and only having 50 pieces to play with.
Rather than further putting forward personal observations on issues related to those disgusting Pepsi-swilling Zionists, I tracked down an article that is a bit dated but relevant to the conversation:
drsanity.blogspot.com...
Many people desperately need to cling to something -- anything, no matter how bizarre or psychotic -- that proves (at least in their own dysfunctional minds) that their beliefs about President Bush being a fascist dictator, another Hitler; about to implement a Christian theocracy are true. They believe this so deeply that it is impossible for facts to debunk such a religious fantasy. In their minds, if it is true, then they are not such losers for believing in an ideology that is responsible for the deaths and misery of millions around the world.
These people are so far gone, they have willingly abandoned the classical liberal values that once were part of the Democratic Party, and instead embraced a nihilistic culture of victimhood. In doing so, they now support all the losers, thugs and murderers of the world.
It is only a very short step from marching to support and cleverly rationalizing the homicidal and violent terrorist groups that make up the Palestinian cause to then swallowing whole the vile antisemitism that motivates the delusions they need to maintain their victimhood status.
As long as the Palestinians are the left's preferred and idealized victim group, neither have to face their own pathological inadequacies as people. As SC&A observe in a post on Arab conspiracies:
sigmundcarlandalfred.wordpress.com...
"Israel and the success and contributions of Jews to western civilization as opposed to their own failures are in the mirror the Arab world has to look at daily. Those truths are almost intolerable to most Arabs. To be sure there are many progressive, intellectual Arabs that understand that Israel is a reality and that the successes of Jews in the west are a model that should be emulated, but for most, Israel and the success of the Jewish community integration into the American and western mosaic, remains a cruel violation of Allah's promise to them. The fact that Allah seems to have abandoned them to live in such squalor and hopelessness is of no concern- it is the non Muslims that remain the obsession. It is the non-Muslims that have upset the 'natural' Islamic order.
The Arab world is not humiliated by the lack of decent schools. The Arab world is not humiliated by their scientific backwardness and book burnings. In a smaller, interconnected world, they cannot be unaware of their own medievalism. The Arab world is not humiliated by collapsed economies. There are car manufacturers in China and Africa, yet there are only 'plans' for an auto industry in the Arab world.
To put it all in context- how is it possible that the humiliations of centuries of Arab failures are trumped by the political 'humiliations of today? What powerful agenda can pull a whole society away from reality?"
--
This is the same powerful agenda that has pulled the left away from reason, truth and reality.
[ ... in ther minds] the left has become the Palestinians. They identify with the Arabs. That is the psychological basis of their unholy alliance with the Islamists and jihadists.
The paranoia, projection and denial all serve to make them feel better about themselves; make them feel less like the losers they are. By inventing themselves as the victims of the BushHitler -- or the Jews, or the neocons or whatever -- they can, like a typical, arrogant paranoid psychotic, pat themselves on the back at their heroic, courageous, and "principled" stand against the forces of oppression. Their failures are NOT THEIR FAULT. Everything in their life would be better if THE EVIL OPPRESSORS would go away. Their need to externalize blame for their own failure will trump any facts and obscure any contradicting reality. Without the paranoia, they are nothing.
M
[edit on 6-9-2009 by mmiichael]
reply to post by mmiichael
I can appreciate you not wanting to embrace my Rome is still conquering the world theory. It’s mostly anecdotal evidence, mixed with some creative license, mixed with a strong hunch…mixed with a little bit of important information picked up from the astral plane.
You know I never got that U2U, you might want to check and see if by chance you sent it to yourself instead of me. I did that once too! I sure would have responded to it, but when I get done writing this I will drop you a U2U and provide you a personal Email Address just in case you ever want to write and the U2U gremlins are stopping it from getting through.
Gremlins are an entirely different conspiracy in no way associated with Rome.
I tend to believe the universe was born out of chaos and the Powers that Be rule the world through Controlled Chaos, or Order out of Chaos so to speak.
Having met, and dined and done business with some prominent members of the Powers that Be, you know that fun Bohemian Grove Crowd, and having gained a certain amount of their confidence it’s very hard for me to pick up on the random it’s all just a fluke of people throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.
Still no matter how you slice and dice it you must admit especially as someone who doesn’t follow that religion that the Holy Roman Christian Bible is a bit circumspect to say the least.
You would think especially regarding the Protestant movement that the second the Holy Roman Empire dissolved on paper in the early 1800’s that the Papacy would have dissolved along with it, and the book would have been tossed onto the trash heap of history. You yourself know a bit about the Jesuits, and no doubt a bit about the Jesuit General aka the Black Pope. It’s an organization going strong still after all these years.
Yet the reality is I don’t believe the Popes either the White or the Black one represent the Roman Empire I imagine still exists. You are right all I can do is imagine it still exists because I can’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it exists yet if you ever get a chance check out the Club of Rome’s website. Don’t feel bad I can’t become a member of it either as I seem to lack the illustrious pedigree of noble blood that it’s members have, but you can read all about their charming mission statement and take note of the fact that the people who do publicly declare membership our of Royal Holy Roman Empire lineage and there is no denying they have some agenda, since…well, they have a mission statement. Keep your eyes open to all possibilities is all I am saying and your ear to the ground because well you never know what you might stumble across in life.
Myself I am not a liberal, I don’t go for the cult of victimization types. To me those who claim to be victims are usually engaged in the process of victimizing someone or something because of their perceptions and perspectives and no offense but both the Palestinians and the Israelis seem to suffer from a victim’s perspective. Life sure isn’t fair and I don’t believe it is written anywhere that it is supposed to be, and I don’t see a suitable judge or arbiter anywhere out there even out of the many like the United Nations, or the World Court, or NATO that truly operates in an unbiased mode.
As far as the educational system in the Arab world, honestly as someone who by mutual agreement with the U.S. Government that stopped going to school at the age of 14, I am not in love with anyone’s educational system. It’s a lot of rigid conditioning and brainwashing to lock people into perspectives and mindsets.
I agree with you life is a fluid event and frankly most people aren’t capable of going with the flow because of how rigidly they are programmed. Whether it’s by a Islamic Madras or a Catholic Parochial School, or Albert Pike High School, or Harvard or Yale, they tend to turn out more critics than they do people with critical minds.
My initial acquaintance with the Powers that Be was based on my professional skills but my friendships with them were based on my out of the box thinking and the fact that well, I can go with the flow.
Individually I believe to a very large extent we make our own destinies, fate being merely the weight of the circumstances we encounter and our ability to respond or not respond to them.
Collectively though, I do know for a fact at least on a national scale and to a lesser knowledge on an international scale destiny is at least shaped through serious attempt by a very small group of influential individuals who own monopolies on resources and infrastructure. You can’t control people but you can control people’s environments and through that to a lesser but significant degree their individual choices. As you point out with the poor state of the Arab educational system, the masses are often given very limited choices from which to choose, yet the Sheiks and Emirs, and Princes and a select few from wealthy families will still head off to Switzerland or London or the United States to receive their educations. Dual standards based on wealth, privilege and access. I lived in the Carolinas for a few years and at that time the public school system was just coming to grips with the fact that its curriculum had been purposefully kept to low standards by mill and plantation owners who simply desired semi-literate workers devoid of the intelligence to organize or unionize. The equivalent of a North Carolina School District High School Diploma was still equal to a sixth grade education in New York City Public Schools. My eldest daughter had to repeat 1st grade here in Florida when we moved here even though she had passed the 1st grade in North Carolina as a result of how she graded on Florida’s aptitude test.
I don’t believe you can hold the ignorance of the ignorant masses against them when they are denied the opportunity to learn. Look at how devious Hezbollah has been in Beirut during the suicide bombing days, when they would drug volunteers and transport them to an Oasis in the Bekka Valley and simulate the whole 40 virgins’ thing for them to mimic a martyr’s reward in the Quran, after a few days of wine, women and song, they would drug them again and put them back in their house, and make it appear like it was all a dream that they had. One that no doubt left an indelible print on their mind since it was no dream at all. Can you really then blame someone dirt poor, under educated, highly indoctrinated into a religious cult to begin with who is then subjected further to that kind of reinforcing manipulation?
Are they victims, no, they are products of their environment. While that’s an extreme form of manipulation people are bombarded by subtle forms of manipulation every day.
In my Hollywood California days one of my neighbors enjoyed a long and profitable career in making subliminal messages to add to movies and TV shows. Even though the practice at that point had been made illegal he had no shortage of clients or business.
That’s the real Coca Cola conspiracy, sometimes when you want one; well you had a little help in arriving to that conclusion.
I have been both lucky and cursed that in my travels and acquaintances to meet people, who do things, and are a part of things, that few people do, and most people would prefer to believe that no such people exist, and that they do such things.
People believe of course what they want to rightly or wrongly, their perception becomes their reality.
Most everyone excuses their bad behavior and stupidity on the fact that someone previously acted poorly or stupidly. They evoke as an inherent right to be the same. Of course freewill is a right, even though how people sometimes employ it isn’t quite right, even though often somehow, someway they can construe it to themselves and others that it is. One man’s hero is another man’s villain.
I can’t prove my theory about Rome to other people, but I have proven it to me, that is my perspective, and time will tell whether I am right or not.
Ultimately whether I am right or wrong it doesn’t matter much because I am not a victim. I always find a way to do well in anyone’s system and get around the limitations anyone attempts to put on me by attempts to control my environment.
Most people aren’t so adaptive or resilient though, and I empathize with everyone, there are always three sides to every story.
Much like the not so old saying because it’s just not so old “Two Israels, three opinions.”
Three is a magical number!
Cheer up Michael, just avoid the Middle East when it’s all coming down and after they clear out all the bodies and the radiation and chemicals all dissipate you can try rebuilding it again!
Just don’t say someone didn’t warn you! Well, the guys with the white jackets are at the door again, time to sneak out the back. Take care my friend.
I can appreciate you not wanting to embrace my Rome is still conquering the world theory. It’s mostly anecdotal evidence, mixed with some creative license, mixed with a strong hunch…mixed with a little bit of important information picked up from the astral plane.
You know I never got that U2U, you might want to check and see if by chance you sent it to yourself instead of me. I did that once too! I sure would have responded to it, but when I get done writing this I will drop you a U2U and provide you a personal Email Address just in case you ever want to write and the U2U gremlins are stopping it from getting through.
Gremlins are an entirely different conspiracy in no way associated with Rome.
I tend to believe the universe was born out of chaos and the Powers that Be rule the world through Controlled Chaos, or Order out of Chaos so to speak.
Having met, and dined and done business with some prominent members of the Powers that Be, you know that fun Bohemian Grove Crowd, and having gained a certain amount of their confidence it’s very hard for me to pick up on the random it’s all just a fluke of people throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.
Still no matter how you slice and dice it you must admit especially as someone who doesn’t follow that religion that the Holy Roman Christian Bible is a bit circumspect to say the least.
You would think especially regarding the Protestant movement that the second the Holy Roman Empire dissolved on paper in the early 1800’s that the Papacy would have dissolved along with it, and the book would have been tossed onto the trash heap of history. You yourself know a bit about the Jesuits, and no doubt a bit about the Jesuit General aka the Black Pope. It’s an organization going strong still after all these years.
Yet the reality is I don’t believe the Popes either the White or the Black one represent the Roman Empire I imagine still exists. You are right all I can do is imagine it still exists because I can’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it exists yet if you ever get a chance check out the Club of Rome’s website. Don’t feel bad I can’t become a member of it either as I seem to lack the illustrious pedigree of noble blood that it’s members have, but you can read all about their charming mission statement and take note of the fact that the people who do publicly declare membership our of Royal Holy Roman Empire lineage and there is no denying they have some agenda, since…well, they have a mission statement. Keep your eyes open to all possibilities is all I am saying and your ear to the ground because well you never know what you might stumble across in life.
Myself I am not a liberal, I don’t go for the cult of victimization types. To me those who claim to be victims are usually engaged in the process of victimizing someone or something because of their perceptions and perspectives and no offense but both the Palestinians and the Israelis seem to suffer from a victim’s perspective. Life sure isn’t fair and I don’t believe it is written anywhere that it is supposed to be, and I don’t see a suitable judge or arbiter anywhere out there even out of the many like the United Nations, or the World Court, or NATO that truly operates in an unbiased mode.
As far as the educational system in the Arab world, honestly as someone who by mutual agreement with the U.S. Government that stopped going to school at the age of 14, I am not in love with anyone’s educational system. It’s a lot of rigid conditioning and brainwashing to lock people into perspectives and mindsets.
I agree with you life is a fluid event and frankly most people aren’t capable of going with the flow because of how rigidly they are programmed. Whether it’s by a Islamic Madras or a Catholic Parochial School, or Albert Pike High School, or Harvard or Yale, they tend to turn out more critics than they do people with critical minds.
My initial acquaintance with the Powers that Be was based on my professional skills but my friendships with them were based on my out of the box thinking and the fact that well, I can go with the flow.
Individually I believe to a very large extent we make our own destinies, fate being merely the weight of the circumstances we encounter and our ability to respond or not respond to them.
Collectively though, I do know for a fact at least on a national scale and to a lesser knowledge on an international scale destiny is at least shaped through serious attempt by a very small group of influential individuals who own monopolies on resources and infrastructure. You can’t control people but you can control people’s environments and through that to a lesser but significant degree their individual choices. As you point out with the poor state of the Arab educational system, the masses are often given very limited choices from which to choose, yet the Sheiks and Emirs, and Princes and a select few from wealthy families will still head off to Switzerland or London or the United States to receive their educations. Dual standards based on wealth, privilege and access. I lived in the Carolinas for a few years and at that time the public school system was just coming to grips with the fact that its curriculum had been purposefully kept to low standards by mill and plantation owners who simply desired semi-literate workers devoid of the intelligence to organize or unionize. The equivalent of a North Carolina School District High School Diploma was still equal to a sixth grade education in New York City Public Schools. My eldest daughter had to repeat 1st grade here in Florida when we moved here even though she had passed the 1st grade in North Carolina as a result of how she graded on Florida’s aptitude test.
I don’t believe you can hold the ignorance of the ignorant masses against them when they are denied the opportunity to learn. Look at how devious Hezbollah has been in Beirut during the suicide bombing days, when they would drug volunteers and transport them to an Oasis in the Bekka Valley and simulate the whole 40 virgins’ thing for them to mimic a martyr’s reward in the Quran, after a few days of wine, women and song, they would drug them again and put them back in their house, and make it appear like it was all a dream that they had. One that no doubt left an indelible print on their mind since it was no dream at all. Can you really then blame someone dirt poor, under educated, highly indoctrinated into a religious cult to begin with who is then subjected further to that kind of reinforcing manipulation?
Are they victims, no, they are products of their environment. While that’s an extreme form of manipulation people are bombarded by subtle forms of manipulation every day.
In my Hollywood California days one of my neighbors enjoyed a long and profitable career in making subliminal messages to add to movies and TV shows. Even though the practice at that point had been made illegal he had no shortage of clients or business.
That’s the real Coca Cola conspiracy, sometimes when you want one; well you had a little help in arriving to that conclusion.
I have been both lucky and cursed that in my travels and acquaintances to meet people, who do things, and are a part of things, that few people do, and most people would prefer to believe that no such people exist, and that they do such things.
People believe of course what they want to rightly or wrongly, their perception becomes their reality.
Most everyone excuses their bad behavior and stupidity on the fact that someone previously acted poorly or stupidly. They evoke as an inherent right to be the same. Of course freewill is a right, even though how people sometimes employ it isn’t quite right, even though often somehow, someway they can construe it to themselves and others that it is. One man’s hero is another man’s villain.
I can’t prove my theory about Rome to other people, but I have proven it to me, that is my perspective, and time will tell whether I am right or not.
Ultimately whether I am right or wrong it doesn’t matter much because I am not a victim. I always find a way to do well in anyone’s system and get around the limitations anyone attempts to put on me by attempts to control my environment.
Most people aren’t so adaptive or resilient though, and I empathize with everyone, there are always three sides to every story.
Much like the not so old saying because it’s just not so old “Two Israels, three opinions.”
Three is a magical number!
Cheer up Michael, just avoid the Middle East when it’s all coming down and after they clear out all the bodies and the radiation and chemicals all dissipate you can try rebuilding it again!
Just don’t say someone didn’t warn you! Well, the guys with the white jackets are at the door again, time to sneak out the back. Take care my friend.
reply to mmiichael I cant speak to nihilism in the US Democrats, but something I was about to post anyway is that your contribution to
this thread has been pretty much on the negative side. The misdeeds of the Palastinians, Arabs in general & later the whole of Islam. You accused me
of hatred, even tho I had previously politely acknowledged where I was mistaken, but nevertheless stuck to my argument that this is a manufactured
conflict, the existance of which primarily serves US geo-political strategy: in effect, both sides are victims.
You also accused Proto of characterising Jews as grasping thieves, yet I see no such assertion from him, outside of saying that Israel was the product of conquest, which you agreed with in saying that the Palastinians lost the fight & should deal with it. This is a far cry from all Jews are the prejudiced stereotype.
I offered my opinion of the way forward; you replied with a list of grievences. Proto stated that the logical ends of your argument is Palastinian genocide; you didn't contradict. Proto said that the conditions the Palastinians live in preclude anything other than bitter opposition & agreed with me that prosperity is the key to peace. He offered a solution: division & armed detent.
The only thing approaching a solution you've posted is the comment about it being a bad neighbourhood that the Jews should leave. I'm guessing you're not serious...
So really mmiichael, who is the more nihilistic? Do you believe in anything pertinent other than how bad Israels enemies are? It seems to me that in reaching for the kneejerk responses to those critical of Israeli Govt policy, not Jews per se, claiming we must be prejudiced, you are demonstrating the mirror image of the blinkered POV the article you quote ascribes to pathalogical victimhood.
Slightly amusing then that the article also mentions "projection". So what say you? Are your ideas the projection of your own persecution complex, or have you got anything positive to suggest?
You also accused Proto of characterising Jews as grasping thieves, yet I see no such assertion from him, outside of saying that Israel was the product of conquest, which you agreed with in saying that the Palastinians lost the fight & should deal with it. This is a far cry from all Jews are the prejudiced stereotype.
I offered my opinion of the way forward; you replied with a list of grievences. Proto stated that the logical ends of your argument is Palastinian genocide; you didn't contradict. Proto said that the conditions the Palastinians live in preclude anything other than bitter opposition & agreed with me that prosperity is the key to peace. He offered a solution: division & armed detent.
The only thing approaching a solution you've posted is the comment about it being a bad neighbourhood that the Jews should leave. I'm guessing you're not serious...
So really mmiichael, who is the more nihilistic? Do you believe in anything pertinent other than how bad Israels enemies are? It seems to me that in reaching for the kneejerk responses to those critical of Israeli Govt policy, not Jews per se, claiming we must be prejudiced, you are demonstrating the mirror image of the blinkered POV the article you quote ascribes to pathalogical victimhood.
Slightly amusing then that the article also mentions "projection". So what say you? Are your ideas the projection of your own persecution complex, or have you got anything positive to suggest?
There are hundreds, maybe a thousand threads on this forum with the attractor buzzwords Zionists, Israel, Jews, Mossad. They more often than not end
up hate fests against the abovementioned.
The same ever-so-polite carrion feeders enter with their wonderfully couched platitudinous phraseology "I'm not an anti-Semite... but ...” "I have nothing against Jews...but..." And then they tell you what they really think. They link to their also polite hate sites, their vitriolic videos, and proudly display the morsel of bad news they found scouring Israeli websites. And then they glower, pat each other on the backs for unraveling another demonstration of Jewish perfidy.
It's a sick joke for anyone claiming rationality. Threads about a Jew spitting on a Christian in Jerusalem, dozens of threads implying 9/11 was perpetrated by the Jews, even a thread picking up on some lunatic Egyptian clerics claim Pepsi is a Zionist plot.
For comparison check how many threads there are about Egyptians. Take away the archeology ones and the odd UFO spotting, and there are almost none.
If people are such lovers of peace and justice, why aren't there ten thousand outraged indignant thread on the Muslim Sudanese government sanctioning genocide of half a million of it's own people. Because that's not nearly as compelling or offer an opportunity to go into a tirade about those awful Zionists. Jews killing Muslims is fun to talk about. Muslims killing Muslims brings up a taboo subject for a certain audience. The terrible realities of the Middle East.
Call it a balancing act. In my own small way I try to offer a countering to the incessant bashing of anything and everything negative that can possibly be related to Jews that circulate in these environs. Most of it is either speculative, exaggeration, inference, or just outright lies.
Mike
[edit on 6-9-2009 by mmiichael]
The same ever-so-polite carrion feeders enter with their wonderfully couched platitudinous phraseology "I'm not an anti-Semite... but ...” "I have nothing against Jews...but..." And then they tell you what they really think. They link to their also polite hate sites, their vitriolic videos, and proudly display the morsel of bad news they found scouring Israeli websites. And then they glower, pat each other on the backs for unraveling another demonstration of Jewish perfidy.
It's a sick joke for anyone claiming rationality. Threads about a Jew spitting on a Christian in Jerusalem, dozens of threads implying 9/11 was perpetrated by the Jews, even a thread picking up on some lunatic Egyptian clerics claim Pepsi is a Zionist plot.
For comparison check how many threads there are about Egyptians. Take away the archeology ones and the odd UFO spotting, and there are almost none.
If people are such lovers of peace and justice, why aren't there ten thousand outraged indignant thread on the Muslim Sudanese government sanctioning genocide of half a million of it's own people. Because that's not nearly as compelling or offer an opportunity to go into a tirade about those awful Zionists. Jews killing Muslims is fun to talk about. Muslims killing Muslims brings up a taboo subject for a certain audience. The terrible realities of the Middle East.
Call it a balancing act. In my own small way I try to offer a countering to the incessant bashing of anything and everything negative that can possibly be related to Jews that circulate in these environs. Most of it is either speculative, exaggeration, inference, or just outright lies.
Mike
[edit on 6-9-2009 by mmiichael]
reply to post by mmiichael
The reality is that the Islamic world just doesn't seem to have any real use or presence or open interaction on the Western Internet.
One of the few Muslims on the site Morojon is from Saudi Arabia and he really focuses on the UFO threads. To him that's the big conspiracy.
Mason Watcher whose also Islamic primarily just focuses on Palestinian Issues.
There is another guy from Iran who primarily just focuses on Iranian issues.
Now the reality is the second a thread comes up about Iran or Israel or the Palestinians or Lebanon all the usual suspects from both sides show up.
Matt Pryor actually thinks I am Miss_Silver too he's so paranoid.
The Islamic and Middle Eastern presence on the boards is small in comparison to the English Speaking nations.
You don't see many Russian issues either. You don't see to many Chinese issues either. Usually when you do it's posted with a Western Slant at least the News Article or Video that frames the original post.
In all fairness half the Israel related threads are posted by the Pro-Israel crowd, and half of them are posted by the anti-Israel crowd.
Both sides of the coin are pretty rigid in their talking points and methods regardless of the actual specific topic, it always reverts back to the same litenary of history and all most never stays on topic.
Both sides fail most of the time to definatively prove their points, and both sided primarily just score points with their own choir.
This is how Rome plays divide and conquer warfare!
People love to be divided and conquered.
It takes two to tango Michael!
The reality is that the Islamic world just doesn't seem to have any real use or presence or open interaction on the Western Internet.
One of the few Muslims on the site Morojon is from Saudi Arabia and he really focuses on the UFO threads. To him that's the big conspiracy.
Mason Watcher whose also Islamic primarily just focuses on Palestinian Issues.
There is another guy from Iran who primarily just focuses on Iranian issues.
Now the reality is the second a thread comes up about Iran or Israel or the Palestinians or Lebanon all the usual suspects from both sides show up.
Matt Pryor actually thinks I am Miss_Silver too he's so paranoid.
The Islamic and Middle Eastern presence on the boards is small in comparison to the English Speaking nations.
You don't see many Russian issues either. You don't see to many Chinese issues either. Usually when you do it's posted with a Western Slant at least the News Article or Video that frames the original post.
In all fairness half the Israel related threads are posted by the Pro-Israel crowd, and half of them are posted by the anti-Israel crowd.
Both sides of the coin are pretty rigid in their talking points and methods regardless of the actual specific topic, it always reverts back to the same litenary of history and all most never stays on topic.
Both sides fail most of the time to definatively prove their points, and both sided primarily just score points with their own choir.
This is how Rome plays divide and conquer warfare!
People love to be divided and conquered.
It takes two to tango Michael!
Your assessment of the demographics here seems pretty solid,
Proty.
masonwatcher, who I sort of like for his outlandishness, is "no longer with the company." Not proper decorum to discuss the departed, but I have a pretty good idea what happened.
Saw a chart for this site somewhere. Americans about half, Brits, Canadians, Australians, Scandinavians, Germans, other Europeans in approximately that order.
The Chinese online is a great mystery. There should be 100 miliion if numbers gathered are correct. They judiciously avoid discussion forums as even the most innocuous comment could have serious repercussions dowm the line.
I'm sort of burned out on the Jewish vs Muslim topic, but have seen a picture very different from yours.
The Gaza thing was an open invitation to a wave of new members, a lot of them self-decalred Muslims who came in for the ride.
The site has jumped in numbers and online profile with messages showing up on Google front pages as soon as they're posted. Good for the business side, but an inevitable dilution as a lot of kids have entered the gates with little to offer beside the rehashing of Youtube and fringe site factoids.
Wish the political discussion would get in gear. We're in the most volatile period in history in half a century. There are some pretty heavy things happening now, and input form those who keep up with this stuff is always appreciated.
The under-reported story is the mysterious Russian ship carrying something they don't want to talk about. It may or may not have something to do with the recent bin Laden promise of a "present" to the West and the coinciding of Ramadan and the Jewish New Year next week.
Hopefully unfounded paranoia. We'll find out.
Hi to all you lowly paid intelligence monitoring lurkers reading this.
We know Nuthink.
Mike
Proty.
masonwatcher, who I sort of like for his outlandishness, is "no longer with the company." Not proper decorum to discuss the departed, but I have a pretty good idea what happened.
Saw a chart for this site somewhere. Americans about half, Brits, Canadians, Australians, Scandinavians, Germans, other Europeans in approximately that order.
The Chinese online is a great mystery. There should be 100 miliion if numbers gathered are correct. They judiciously avoid discussion forums as even the most innocuous comment could have serious repercussions dowm the line.
I'm sort of burned out on the Jewish vs Muslim topic, but have seen a picture very different from yours.
The Gaza thing was an open invitation to a wave of new members, a lot of them self-decalred Muslims who came in for the ride.
The site has jumped in numbers and online profile with messages showing up on Google front pages as soon as they're posted. Good for the business side, but an inevitable dilution as a lot of kids have entered the gates with little to offer beside the rehashing of Youtube and fringe site factoids.
Wish the political discussion would get in gear. We're in the most volatile period in history in half a century. There are some pretty heavy things happening now, and input form those who keep up with this stuff is always appreciated.
The under-reported story is the mysterious Russian ship carrying something they don't want to talk about. It may or may not have something to do with the recent bin Laden promise of a "present" to the West and the coinciding of Ramadan and the Jewish New Year next week.
Hopefully unfounded paranoia. We'll find out.
Hi to all you lowly paid intelligence monitoring lurkers reading this.
We know Nuthink.
Mike
reply to post by mmiichael
There is no doubt about it that the site is dumbing down a bit with a number of the new members.
The Presidential election here in the U.S. pulled in a bunch and so did Operation Cast Lead...actors wearing masks Michael!
People can't make up there mind whether there is going to be a false flag attack, or a genuine terrorist attack, or if the Swine Flu is going to evolve into something big, bad, ugly and nasty.
I think some of your earlier comments on other threads are right on in that Americans in general are being weaned off the highflying consumer lifestyle.
Bread and circuses really is expensive Michael and it's another sign that the torch is passing from the United States to China.
Obama's Redistribution of Wealth isn't to poorer Americans it's overseas to poorer developing nations.
I doubt anything will happen prior to the G-20 in Pittsburgh towards the end of the month, but something could coincide to go along with it, with so many world leaders here on U.S. Soil it would be a great time for both a false flag and or a terrorist attack.
One thing is for sure the natives are figidy at the moment with the Tea Parties and the Health Care Town Halls, now the latest uproar about Obama speaking to the elementary school kids, and he Green Energy Czar Van Jones stepping down.
You know he has barely filled 1/3 of his political oppointee jobs and he's already a solid half a year into his administration.
Like I assumed about the only thing is he good at is causing controversy. Most of the pro-Israeli crowd does not like him.
The U.S. is in for a rough ride for the indefinate future, the Credit Markets are still frozen, the economy is still shedding jobs, and the stimulus money is getting little bang for the buck.
Thankfully Miami functions primarily as a third world city state and is only nominally tied into and effected by Federal policy, they have a hard time implementing anything on the ground here because the atmosphere for corruption and fraud is so pervasive the government is pretty much just a cash cow to be taken advantage of.
All the intelligence agencies and para military groups love Miami, it's the last city in the world they are likely to do anything to.
Not to long ago I turned down a request for my services from a local company that sought me out by referal. Something struck me as odd about their name, and sure enough when I researched the company it was the number one inventor and manufacture of RFID Chip solutions. I told them no on principal...
Two offices Michael...one in Miami...one in Rome!
The Jews are Rome's scapegoat Michael! They have been setting the Jews up to take the fall for one thing after another for almost 2,000 years!
I refuse to fall for it. History proves most people will fall for it though. You really should consider just who the real enemy of the Jews is. Hitler and the Pope awful chummy Michael!
It's Rome I tell you! Rome!
There is no doubt about it that the site is dumbing down a bit with a number of the new members.
The Presidential election here in the U.S. pulled in a bunch and so did Operation Cast Lead...actors wearing masks Michael!
People can't make up there mind whether there is going to be a false flag attack, or a genuine terrorist attack, or if the Swine Flu is going to evolve into something big, bad, ugly and nasty.
I think some of your earlier comments on other threads are right on in that Americans in general are being weaned off the highflying consumer lifestyle.
Bread and circuses really is expensive Michael and it's another sign that the torch is passing from the United States to China.
Obama's Redistribution of Wealth isn't to poorer Americans it's overseas to poorer developing nations.
I doubt anything will happen prior to the G-20 in Pittsburgh towards the end of the month, but something could coincide to go along with it, with so many world leaders here on U.S. Soil it would be a great time for both a false flag and or a terrorist attack.
One thing is for sure the natives are figidy at the moment with the Tea Parties and the Health Care Town Halls, now the latest uproar about Obama speaking to the elementary school kids, and he Green Energy Czar Van Jones stepping down.
You know he has barely filled 1/3 of his political oppointee jobs and he's already a solid half a year into his administration.
Like I assumed about the only thing is he good at is causing controversy. Most of the pro-Israeli crowd does not like him.
The U.S. is in for a rough ride for the indefinate future, the Credit Markets are still frozen, the economy is still shedding jobs, and the stimulus money is getting little bang for the buck.
Thankfully Miami functions primarily as a third world city state and is only nominally tied into and effected by Federal policy, they have a hard time implementing anything on the ground here because the atmosphere for corruption and fraud is so pervasive the government is pretty much just a cash cow to be taken advantage of.
All the intelligence agencies and para military groups love Miami, it's the last city in the world they are likely to do anything to.
Not to long ago I turned down a request for my services from a local company that sought me out by referal. Something struck me as odd about their name, and sure enough when I researched the company it was the number one inventor and manufacture of RFID Chip solutions. I told them no on principal...
Two offices Michael...one in Miami...one in Rome!
The Jews are Rome's scapegoat Michael! They have been setting the Jews up to take the fall for one thing after another for almost 2,000 years!
I refuse to fall for it. History proves most people will fall for it though. You really should consider just who the real enemy of the Jews is. Hitler and the Pope awful chummy Michael!
It's Rome I tell you! Rome!
reply to post by mmiichael Well fair enough, but right here
right now, I dont see any evidence of the Jew-bashing you have just documented. I previously challenged you to find any evidence of Jew-hating from me
anywhere. You cant, because there isn't any. In fact, if you read the "85 Shari'ah Courts in the UK" thread, you'll find me very critical of
Islamic sexism. Elsewhere, you'll find me uber-critical of religion per se. I'm an equal opportunity criticiser! Still, I'm also an advocate of
applying good sense.
Not "common sense", as IME, most thats labelled such is merely a combination of misunderstandings, deliberately repeated lies, someone elses agenda & outright prejudice. Rather, I'm on about the lessons of history combined with the latest that science & philosophy have to offer. Now I'm not much of an expert on any of those subjects, but I dabble. So I present my views & hope to learn something from responses to them.
It seems to me that automatically assuming that I am @some point going to reveal that I'm an anti-semite, especially since I've told you I'm 1/4 ethnically Jewish & have Jewish Israeli relatives, is exactly the mirror image of the prejudice you are complaining about. It is not offering "balance", it is chilling useful discourse. Nor does it do anything for the image of your cause, if you do actually have 1, which, since you dodged the question, I am still waiting to hear about.
Quite frankly Michael, on a personal level, I also find lumping me in with morons very insulting.
Funny you should mention the Sudan: literally after my last post here, I brought up that very issue on this thread. Serendipity? Psychic phenomenon? Something illicit in the Pepsi? IDK...
Not "common sense", as IME, most thats labelled such is merely a combination of misunderstandings, deliberately repeated lies, someone elses agenda & outright prejudice. Rather, I'm on about the lessons of history combined with the latest that science & philosophy have to offer. Now I'm not much of an expert on any of those subjects, but I dabble. So I present my views & hope to learn something from responses to them.
It seems to me that automatically assuming that I am @some point going to reveal that I'm an anti-semite, especially since I've told you I'm 1/4 ethnically Jewish & have Jewish Israeli relatives, is exactly the mirror image of the prejudice you are complaining about. It is not offering "balance", it is chilling useful discourse. Nor does it do anything for the image of your cause, if you do actually have 1, which, since you dodged the question, I am still waiting to hear about.
Quite frankly Michael, on a personal level, I also find lumping me in with morons very insulting.
Funny you should mention the Sudan: literally after my last post here, I brought up that very issue on this thread. Serendipity? Psychic phenomenon? Something illicit in the Pepsi? IDK...
Originally posted by Bunken Drum.
Quite frankly Michael, on a personal level, I also find lumping me in with morons very insulting.
I am guilty of whipping through a lot of mesages, isolating a point, and railing back without taking in the full context and intent. If I did this in your case, which I'll assume I did, please accept my apology.
Mike
reply to post by Ridhya
I noticed this before & just ignored it, but on 2nd thoughts, the study of geography being what it is & all that, I thought maybe I should after all point out that India isn't in the Middle East. It's its own sub-continent in the East.
Originally posted by finemanm
Egypt is perhaps Israel's closest partner in the Middle East.
Originally posted by Ridhya
Definitely not, that would be India by far.
reply to post by mmiichael Thank you.
Now, to get back on it, do you see any way for a constructive solution?
Now, to get back on it, do you see any way for a constructive solution?
Originally posted by Bunken Drum
do you see any way for a constructive solution?
A lot of variables.
The Palestinians would be advised to dump their leaders fast. Fatah and Hamas do not have their interests at heart. A few of the military guys in Gaza are actually real people. They should take over. It will mean cutting the purse strings from Iran.
Establishing a new country from scratch on the West Bank. The Palestinians will be poor, lack the education and skill sets to set up a functional economy. They can just say to the Israelis "You did it, show us how." Israel already has 1.5 million Muslim citizens. It doesn't have to be a culture clash.
Palestinian children have been ingrained with hate. Peace has come to mean the destruction of Israel - not working hard. A lot of deprogramming needed. They should elect for a secular state. Really push the education thing. They'll get loads of sympathy tuitions and volunteer educators.
Cut all ties with the Saudis and Iranians. They've been using the conflict as their PR war toy.
Moving forward not backward. The only way to go.
Mike
reply to post by mmiichael I agree with a lot of that,
particularly the education part. If people are taught nothing but to join a struggle, even if the struggle was over, they couldn't stop. Yeah,
between the Wahhabism & theocracy, I cant see how any of that money is going to end up in the hands of anyone who isn't an idiot &/or seriously
deluded.
Still, the trouble is how to get the Palastinians to accept that their leaders are the puppets of foreigners, when they are in a daily struggle against grinding poverty & oppression? All they've got to keep any kind of hope is their religion & leaders. That's why I say Israel needs to get out of the settlements. As far as I understand it, a huge issue is land with available water, so if a state of Palastine is going to work, they need that settled land back.
I cant see them looking to israel as a model for nation building tho. Not for @least 50yrs after peace anyway. I tend to think that if there was some IMF development funding & a UN presence to guarantee peace, there are plenty of Muslim business people & professionals who could be persuaded with financial incentives to move there from places like Pakistan, India, probably Iraq & maybe, if there was enough money in it, from Europe.
I just dont see any of it starting without major concessions from Israel & a firm UN commitment.
Still, the trouble is how to get the Palastinians to accept that their leaders are the puppets of foreigners, when they are in a daily struggle against grinding poverty & oppression? All they've got to keep any kind of hope is their religion & leaders. That's why I say Israel needs to get out of the settlements. As far as I understand it, a huge issue is land with available water, so if a state of Palastine is going to work, they need that settled land back.
I cant see them looking to israel as a model for nation building tho. Not for @least 50yrs after peace anyway. I tend to think that if there was some IMF development funding & a UN presence to guarantee peace, there are plenty of Muslim business people & professionals who could be persuaded with financial incentives to move there from places like Pakistan, India, probably Iraq & maybe, if there was enough money in it, from Europe.
I just dont see any of it starting without major concessions from Israel & a firm UN commitment.
reply to Bunken Drum
Rebuilding a Palestinian state on the West Bank gets more problematic every year. Arafat turned down an offer for them to have 97% of the territory but Israel wanted to keep control of Jerusalem. That was the time to do it. Now the politics have changed.
The Saudis have supposedly guaranteed something like a billion to rebuild Gaza, but typical of
Arab offers and promised money somehow never materializes.
The West believes the issue is redressing the loss of homeland for the Palestinians. The Arab League sees it as payback for their humiliation at the hands of Israel in their unsuccessful wars to eliminate them. A Palestinian state on the West Bank will become another Gaza. A base for a continuing war.
The Palestinian poverty is always highlighted, but in fact their standard of living is actually higher than for most in Middle East countries. Even fairly progressive places like Turkey are overwhelmed with hand to mouth poverty.
Wide scale education, industrialization, trade and commerce have not come to the Middle East and never will. The leadership is at fault, of course, not the people. Change and modernization are not seen as desirable. Addressing the needs of the masses is not a concern. They’re given enough so they don’t revolt, but the quality of life is not improved significantly.
When the Ayatollah Khoumeni came to power in speeches he made it clear that he didn’t want to see Western style progress for the people, and in fact saw a reversion to the old ways of life as the true path of Islam. The Saudis in their own way feel the same. A consumer middle class, women with equal rights, progressive education, are all considered a threat to insecure leaders.
They cost money and require long term implementation. And the masses will eventually start asking questions of their leaders.
I don’t think there is a viable core of Palestinians capable right now of moving things forward in the most advantageous manner. They should get sympathy loans from the rest of the world. The IMF is a real can of worms. They have made loans to struggling African states with full knowledge the corrupt and inept leaders will not ever repay them. In exchange they seize assets which are usually mineral and resource rights, and the countries collapse as a result.
The Israelis are the last people the Palestinians would trust, but they would be their best bet. In the end Israel want the Palestinians to succeed and be a good neighbour. But the history and the mindset makes this an unlikely scenario.
Meanwhile Palestinian leadership have received billions to remain at war with Israel, and the money is still flowing, So no great incentive to change things.
Mike
Rebuilding a Palestinian state on the West Bank gets more problematic every year. Arafat turned down an offer for them to have 97% of the territory but Israel wanted to keep control of Jerusalem. That was the time to do it. Now the politics have changed.
The Saudis have supposedly guaranteed something like a billion to rebuild Gaza, but typical of
Arab offers and promised money somehow never materializes.
The West believes the issue is redressing the loss of homeland for the Palestinians. The Arab League sees it as payback for their humiliation at the hands of Israel in their unsuccessful wars to eliminate them. A Palestinian state on the West Bank will become another Gaza. A base for a continuing war.
The Palestinian poverty is always highlighted, but in fact their standard of living is actually higher than for most in Middle East countries. Even fairly progressive places like Turkey are overwhelmed with hand to mouth poverty.
Wide scale education, industrialization, trade and commerce have not come to the Middle East and never will. The leadership is at fault, of course, not the people. Change and modernization are not seen as desirable. Addressing the needs of the masses is not a concern. They’re given enough so they don’t revolt, but the quality of life is not improved significantly.
When the Ayatollah Khoumeni came to power in speeches he made it clear that he didn’t want to see Western style progress for the people, and in fact saw a reversion to the old ways of life as the true path of Islam. The Saudis in their own way feel the same. A consumer middle class, women with equal rights, progressive education, are all considered a threat to insecure leaders.
They cost money and require long term implementation. And the masses will eventually start asking questions of their leaders.
I don’t think there is a viable core of Palestinians capable right now of moving things forward in the most advantageous manner. They should get sympathy loans from the rest of the world. The IMF is a real can of worms. They have made loans to struggling African states with full knowledge the corrupt and inept leaders will not ever repay them. In exchange they seize assets which are usually mineral and resource rights, and the countries collapse as a result.
The Israelis are the last people the Palestinians would trust, but they would be their best bet. In the end Israel want the Palestinians to succeed and be a good neighbour. But the history and the mindset makes this an unlikely scenario.
Meanwhile Palestinian leadership have received billions to remain at war with Israel, and the money is still flowing, So no great incentive to change things.
Mike
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