Letter Details Kennedy Offer To USSR

I actually never heard of this before, althought according to the info this is old news which is why I am posting here. It is a shame I only read about this after Senator Edward Kennedy's death, but here it is nonetheless.

This letter which details Senator Edward Kennedy’s offer to help the Soviet Union defeat Reagan’s efforts to build up the nuclear deterrent in Europe was unearthed by a Times of London reporter in the 1990s after the KGB files were opened.

It got little or no attention, however, until the publication of Paul Kengor’s book "The Crusader – Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism."

But even then the actual text of the letter (which is in the book’s appendix pp 317-320) has gotten short shrift:

Appendix
TEXT OF KGB LETTER ON SENATOR TED KENNEDY
_________________________________________

Special Importance
Committee on State Security of the USSR
14.05. 1983 No. 1029 Ch/OV
Moscow

Regarding Senator Kennedy’s request to the General Secretary of the Communist Party Comrade Y.V. Andropov

Comrade Y.V. Andropov

On 9-10 May of this year, Senator Edward Kennedy’s close friend and trusted confidant J. Tunney was in Moscow. The senator charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to the General Secretary of the Center Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Y. Andropov.
.......................
1. Kennedy asks Y.V. Andropov to consider inviting the senator to Moscow for a personal meeting in July of this year. The main purpose of the meeting, according to the senator, would be to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA. He would also like to inform you that he has planned a trip through Western Europe, where he anticipates meeting England’s Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and French President Mitterand in which he will exchange similar ideas regarding the same issues.

If his proposals would be accepted in principle, Kennedy would send his representative to Moscow to resolve questions regarding organizing such a visit.

Kennedy thinks the benefits of a meeting with Y.V.Andropov will be enhanced if he could also invite one of the well known Republican senators, for example, Mark Hatfield. Such a meeting will have a strong impact on American and political circles in the USA (In March of 1982, Hatfield and Kennedy proposed a project to freeze the nuclear arsenals of the USA and USSR and pblished a book on the theme as well.)

2. Kennedy believes that in order to influence Americans it would be important to organize in August-September of this year, televised interviews with Y.V. Andropov in the USA. A direct appeal by the General Secretary to the American people will, without a doubt, attact a great deal of attention and interest in the country. The senator is convinced this would receive the maximum resonance in so far as television is the most effective method of mass media and information.

sweetness-light.com...

If this information is true then Senator Kennedy was participating in a treasonous act againt the United States of America.

He was trying to use the situation in the 1980s to further his political goals for the U.S., and not for the best interest of the U.S.

Throughout those decades the MAD scenario was the only thing stopping the Communist Soviets from attacking the U.S., and Senator Kennedy was willing to give the Communist Soviet Union knowledge on how to try to disuade Americans to disarm.

Yes nuclear weapons are bad, but the Russians have been, more so during that time, our worse enemy, and trying to use the situation only to further certian people's political agenda was, and is no excuse for trying to aid who for all intents and purpose was our greatest enemy back then.


[edit on 28-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Sorry, how would it be treasonous to discuss nuclear disarmament, when such talks had (and have been since) taking place anyway, most notably this year?

Also, trying to "disuade Americans to disarm" would mean the USSR would be asking Americans NOT to disarm. If you're going to have a pointless rant, at least get it right. The word you were looking for is pursuade.

What I found interesting after reading through it, was just how closely the Soviets watched our political process knowing how it would impact theirs. I doubt that very many congressmen and senators knew the Soviet system as well as they knew ours.

Great find....

Beware
You're possibly going to be attacked from every liberal out there not to mention the history revisionists who have a romanticism with the old Soviet Union.


[edit on 28-8-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Your right it was an act of treason, but many won’t see it that way. However, I find it odd that an American Senator Esp. a Kennedy whose brother almost took us to a Nuclear War with the Soviets, would consider what was mentioned.

I am all for the complete and utter destruction of all Nuclear Missiles except for "Planetary Defenses" Purposes.


Nice Find.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Nice contradiction there...

You think he was treasonous for trying to discuss disarmament with the Soviets, but you think disarmament is good?

Righty ho...

Originally posted by stumason
Sorry, how would it be treasonous to discuss nuclear disarmament, when such talks had (and have been since) taking place anyway, most notably this year?

If he had the POTUS's permission, then its not treason. If he didn't have the POTUS permission it is most definitely treason. The US has a President , Sec of State, etc to handle such discussions with other nations.

Oh, and Star and Flag! Interesting thread.

[edit on 28-8-2009 by FreeSpeaker]

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


As a representative of the people, I thought Senators and the like often went trotting around doing stuff. Is it all under permission from the Prez?

He wasn't seeking any sort of formal agreement, it would seem, but rather just "discussions" with the Gen. Secretary of the Communist party and offering him the chance of some interviews on TV to speak to the US people.

Do you need to seek permission from the Prez before doing anything?

Nothing in there seems to suggest that he was acting against the interests of the US. It seems to me that he was trying to improve relations.

[edit on 28/8/09 by stumason]

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

You think he was treasonous for trying to discuss disarmament with the Soviets, but you think disarmament is good?

Exactly...

He was not the President nor does he solely speak for the nation. Whether it's a popular stance or not. He was moving with his own agenda. Thinking his political views were best for the nation without following the checks and balances that are in place and should have been followed.

Nuclear arms reduction?

Absolutely!

Done right out in the open where it belongs so everybody can see. Not in back door meetings between a few individuals who grease each others palms politically speaking.

Where does that power come from?

Not my vote....

reply to post by SLAYER69


But he wasn't seeking a "formal" agreement, he just seems, by the text of the letter, to be trying to open up communication channels and improve relations on the subject..

And that's a bad thing?

Originally posted by stumason
But he wasn't seeking a "formal" agreement, he just seems, by the text of the letter, to be trying to open up communication channels and improve relations on the subject..

And that's a bad thing?

As the letter says he was trying to arm the soviets with information to try to disarm us.

Have you EVER listened to what high ranking Soviet Russian military and officials who have defected to the west have said about this very thing, disarming the United States of America?...

These defectors are, and were people working in high level security positions, and were, and in some cases still are in the know.

To you, and some other people this might sound as "a good idea", but people such as Senator Kennedy, who are told what nations such as the U.S.S.R. do to propagate their own goals, should have known that this was never for the benefit of the U.S. Senator Kennedy was just trying to fulfill his own political goals, and not for the benefit of the nation.

This is very similar to what Jane Fonda did during the Vietnam war, but in her case she just keep cheering for the Communists.



[edit on 28-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


But, he didn't have the POTUS permission, he tried to make a deal on his own giving information to the Russian government, with some other Senators, and yes including at least one Republican Senator for their own political goals.

reply to post by stumason


No contradiction at all. A Senators job is not to be a diplomat or a member of the house. I am all for complete and total destruction of nukes. A Senator who has not been asked by State or the POTUS has no place attempt to conduct foreign affairs, and Kennedy was not a member of any of foreign committee.

Now if the POTUS asked him to go, then thats okay, but he diddnt, hes not a diplomat no matter how many of his supporters fancied him to be.

reply to post by stumason


Hindsight being 20/20 no, not a bad thing.

But this was then not now.

The Soviets were our political, military and ideological adversaries.
We have specific elected officials to handle these situations and to negotiate for us. This was more of a "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" etc.

Let's not drag Hanoi Jane into this discussion.

On a personal note. I know her. Here she is sitting in an Anti Aircraft gun possibly one that killed American airmen for a photo op.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5de4c1c22af7.jpg[/atsimg]

I'm not trying to revise history, I'm just not American, so I have a less US-influenced version of what happened. And I'm in my mid-forties, so I lived through this. The MAD detterent was not for the benefit of the USSR, it was to keep the US in check:

-Only one country ever used nukes: the US, twice in WWII
-Only one country ever threatened to start a nuclear war (in a very serious fashion): JFK in the whole Cuba missile crisis. Possibly one of the reasons he was killed; remember that Krutchev was taken out of power almost immediately after. Perhaps a secret arrangement?
-Only one country seemed aimed at starting a nuclear war in secret: remember those six nukes that disapeared in '07? Most likely they would have ended up in Iran.
-The USSR never attempted, covertly or otherwise, to expand its borders

Everything else is propaganda.

Originally posted by ajmusicmedia

-The USSR never attempted, covertly or otherwise, to expand its borders

Everything else is propaganda.

Exactly...

Then let me ask you a question?
Who were all those break away republics?

That came before the establishment of the USSR. Once the nation was established, after WWII, they didn't attempt to expand their borders. Learn history, then you'll know when to laugh.

reply to post by ajmusicmedia


What kool-aid are you sipping on? Yes we dropped A-bombs on Japan... So after all the island battles we fought against them and how hard it was to take those islands from, I would have dropped the bombs to. Those bombs were dropped to save ALLIED LIVES, Mostly American, British, and Russians. A main fight on Japans homeland would have been bloody for everyone involved. ALLIED Lives were more important then an enemy who started the war against America in the first place. Don’t forget about all the aggression they showed inn the pacific pre-pearl harbor.

During the end of WWII any and all nations we occupied were eventually given there nations back or giving the option of being an American Protectorate. How long did it take for Eastern European countries did regain there freedom from Moscow? Ten years after the surrender of Germany, West Germany was a thriving nation unlike East Germany and the rest of Eastern Europe.

As far as I know America has never lost a nuke (save for some subs, and planes that crashed or sank.) unlike Russia who’s nuclear Arsenal is still unaccounted for almost 20 years latter. Yes America is far from perfect maybe if you stopped and took of your anti-American glasses you would see that.

reply to post by ajmusicmedia


you learn history, the USSR was founded after WWI. Serioulsy check your facts before you come all crazy.


en.wikipedia.org...
geography.about.com...
www.marxists.org...
encarta.msn.com...

Originally posted by ajmusicmedia
I'm not trying to revise history, I'm just not American, so I have a less US-influenced version of what happened. And I'm in my mid-forties, so I lived through this. The MAD detterent was not for the benefit of the USSR, it was to keep the US in check:

You claim that, and btw I grew up part of my life in Europe, but still i am very certain you do not have as much knowledge about the situation as Russian high ranking defectors, and other Russian officials who have talked about this and say a very different story to what you claim.

Originally posted by ajmusicmedia
-Only one country ever used nukes: the US, twice in WWII

The U.S. was attacked and backstabbed by the Japanese meanwhile they were making "peace talks' and claiming all they wanted was to find a way for peace.... A large part of our naval forces were destroyed in the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, if this had happened to the U.S.S.R. and if they had the bombs like the U.S. had the Russians would have exterminated all of Japan, and not just dropped the bombs on two places.

Originally posted by ajmusicmedia
-Only one country ever threatened to start a nuclear war (in a very serious fashion): JFK in the whole Cuba missile crisis.

Not true, several countries have threatened to use nuclear weapons...even the president of FRANCE in 2006 declared that if France was attacked by terrorists they would use nuclear weapons...

France Warns Terrorists of Nuclear Weapons Retaliation

Paris
19 January 2006

French president Jacques Chirac said Thursday that France could retaliate with nuclear weapons against states that launch terrorist attacks against it. Mr. Chirac's threat is considered a departure in terms of French defense policy.

President Chirac's warning came during a visit to a French nuclear submarine base in Brittany. Eighty five-percent of France's nuclear warheads are carried on submarines.

www.voanews.com

BTW fidel castro wanted the Russians to keep the atomic missiles in the island, and he wanted to use them against the United States.

castro was very angry about the dealto disarm the nuclear missiles in Cuba for other missiles, and this could have possibly been the reason why JFK was murdered.

The research was even presented on German tv. The research included declassified Mexican documents and former Cuban intelligent officers such as Oscar Marino.

Did Castro Kill Kennedy?
By Michael Scott Moore in Berlin

A new documentary slated to run on German TV this Friday uncovers new evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald murdered President Kennedy on behalf of the regime of Cuban dictator Fidel Castro. The film also claims that the KGB recommended Oswald to Havana as the man for the job.

www.spiegel.de...

Originally posted by ajmusicmedia
-Only one country seemed aimed at starting a nuclear war in secret: remember those six nukes that disapeared in '07? Most likely they would have ended up in Iran.

If you are trying to claim "only the U.S. is , or was trying to do this" again you are WRONG...

The Russians have been very close to using nukes on the U.S. and even attakcing the U.S., and according to several former Russian high ranking defectors the plans are still active.

That is without mentioning the fact that Chinese officials have also threatened to nuke the west coast of the U.S. if we ever helped Taiwan with it's declaration of independence...

Originally posted by ajmusicmedia
-The USSR never attempted, covertly or otherwise, to expand its borders

Everything else is propaganda.

I wonder why the Russians invaded Afghanistan in the late 70s and 80s...

I wonder why COMMUNISTS have been invading several countries, such as Vietnam and the U.S. had to intervene to stop the Communist expansion....

You sure are full of propaganda....



[edit on 28-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I actually never heard of this before, althought according to the info this is old news which is why I am posting here. It is a shame I only read about this after Senator Edward Kennedy's death, but here it is nonetheless.

This letter which details Senator Edward Kennedy’s offer to help the Soviet Union defeat Reagan’s efforts to build up the nuclear deterrent in Europe was unearthed by a Times of London reporter in the 1990s after the KGB files were opened.

It got little or no attention, however, until the publication of Paul Kengor’s book "The Crusader – Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism."

But even then the actual text of the letter (which is in the book’s appendix pp 317-320) has gotten short shrift:

Appendix
TEXT OF KGB LETTER ON SENATOR TED KENNEDY
_________________________________________

Special Importance
Committee on State Security of the USSR
14.05. 1983 No. 1029 Ch/OV
Moscow

Regarding Senator Kennedy’s request to the General Secretary of the Communist Party Comrade Y.V. Andropov

Comrade Y.V. Andropov

On 9-10 May of this year, Senator Edward Kennedy’s close friend and trusted confidant J. Tunney was in Moscow. The senator charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to the General Secretary of the Center Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Y. Andropov.
.......................
1. Kennedy asks Y.V. Andropov to consider inviting the senator to Moscow for a personal meeting in July of this year. The main purpose of the meeting, according to the senator, would be to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA. He would also like to inform you that he has planned a trip through Western Europe, where he anticipates meeting England’s Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and French President Mitterand in which he will exchange similar ideas regarding the same issues.

If his proposals would be accepted in principle, Kennedy would send his representative to Moscow to resolve questions regarding organizing such a visit.

Kennedy thinks the benefits of a meeting with Y.V.Andropov will be enhanced if he could also invite one of the well known Republican senators, for example, Mark Hatfield. Such a meeting will have a strong impact on American and political circles in the USA (In March of 1982, Hatfield and Kennedy proposed a project to freeze the nuclear arsenals of the USA and USSR and pblished a book on the theme as well.)

2. Kennedy believes that in order to influence Americans it would be important to organize in August-September of this year, televised interviews with Y.V. Andropov in the USA. A direct appeal by the General Secretary to the American people will, without a doubt, attact a great deal of attention and interest in the country. The senator is convinced this would receive the maximum resonance in so far as television is the most effective method of mass media and information.

sweetness-light.com...

If this information is true then Senator Kennedy was participating in a treasonous act againt the United States of America.

He was trying to use the situation in the 1980s to further his political goals for the U.S., and not for the best interest of the U.S.

Throughout those decades the MAD scenario was the only thing stopping the Communist Soviets from attacking the U.S., and Senator Kennedy was willing to give the Communist Soviet Union knowledge on how to try to disuade Americans to disarm.

Yes nuclear weapons are bad, but the Russians have been, more so during that time, our worse enemy, and trying to use the situation only to further certian people's political agenda was, and is no excuse for trying to aid who for all intents and purpose was our greatest enemy back then.


[edit on 28-8-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

I think you've completely missed the point by a country mile.
From what you posted, it would seem Ted Kennedy was interested in disarmament.

Further more, what makes you think the USA didn't want to attack the USSR? God, it's the year 2009 pal, get with it. Your not inundated with propaganda about the evil commie Ruskies anymore.